"Home Rule is Rome Rule."

hatrickpatrick

I'm as much a nationalist as anyone, and I would absolutely like to see a United Ireland at some point. Just in case this thread causes anyone to question my patriotism.

However, does it ever strike you as ironic that, as things turned out, the Unionists actually kind of had a point? Look at what happened to IReland as a result of theocratic government policy (and is still happening, indeed - look at laws on abortion, assisted suicide, consensual sex between teenagers, etc). They were right about it. And it maddens and saddens me to have to admit that, but at the same time I find it very ironic.

One of the KEY reasons protestants objected to the idea of independence was because they were afraid of a theocratic situation developing here with regard to the Catholic Church. And I'd be the first one to say that after they gave us the Penal Laws and what not, they had some nerve to voice this - but it can't be denied, they got it absolutely right to the letter.

Thoughts?

gigino

When you look at the mess we made of the country, Its difficult not to come to the conclusion we are not capable of self governance. As Gay Byrne one famously said, maybe we should hand the country back to the queen with a note of Apology ! And as yer one said last night on O'Connors tv show, for decades we benefit from Britain through the EC, and even though we always gave out about Britain, when we went bust ( could no longer borrow on the bond markets ) we had to borrow from them - and they gave it to us !

Predator_

gigino wrote: »

When you look at the mess we made of the country, Its difficult not to come to the conclusion we are not capable of self governance. As Gay Byrne one famously said, maybe we should hand the country back to the queen with a note of Apology ! And as yer one said last night on O'Connors tv show, for decades we benefit from Britain through the EC, and even though we always gave out about Britain, when we went bust ( could no longer borrow on the bond markets ) we had to borrow from them - and they gave it to us !

:rolleyes:
What we need is patriotic leaders who look after the Irish people, not traitors like we have had. The Brits have been a curse on this Island, only a fool would want them back, or a west brit traitor or course.

Bottle_of_Smoke

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

One of the KEY reasons protestants objected to the idea of independence was because they were afraid of a theocratic situation developing here with regard to the Catholic Church. And I'd be the first one to say that after they gave us the Penal Laws and what not, they had some nerve to voice this - but it can't be denied, they got it absolutely right to the letter.

Thoughts?

Ridiculous attitude The people who enacted the penal laws were long dead by the time the Irish unionist party made that claim.

That said your main point is an interesting one - the claim did come true. I wonder what Carson's position would be on Irish independence nowadays when there's a far more secular society worldwide complete with anti-discrimination laws and legal rights given to religious freedom.

maynooth_rules

Predator_ wrote: »

:rolleyes:
What we need is patriotic leaders who look after the Irish people, not traitors like we have had. The Brits have been a curse on this Island, only a fool would want them back, or a west brit traitor or course.

This is the kind of idiocy that we could do without in Ireland. Are you aware who out biggest Trading partner is by quite a distance. We rely on Britain. Where are so many of our nurses who cant get work in our tinpot county now going to? How many countrys came to our assistance outside of the ECB/IMF loan that we got??? Ill answer that for you, two, Britain and Sweden. WE should be creating a close bond with Britain instead of looking back into History and still having distain for a country that is so so vital to our well being as a country.

Knight990

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm as much a nationalist as anyone, and I would absolutely like to see a United Ireland at some point. Just in case this thread causes anyone to question my patriotism.

However, does it ever strike you as ironic that, as things turned out, the Unionists actually kind of had a point? Look at what happened to IReland as a result of theocratic government policy (and is still happening, indeed - look at laws on abortion, assisted suicide, consensual sex between teenagers, etc). They were right about it. And it maddens and saddens me to have to admit that, but at the same time I find it very ironic.

One of the KEY reasons protestants objected to the idea of independence was because they were afraid of a theocratic situation developing here with regard to the Catholic Church. And I'd be the first one to say that after they gave us the Penal Laws and what not, they had some nerve to voice this - but it can't be denied, they got it absolutely right to the letter.

Thoughts?

You're definitely on to an interesting point with this, and I think its a point that not many Irish people tended to notice because we are, for the most part, too blinded by revolutionary fervor to see things like this most of the time.

It has to be said that we did fall right into the palm of the Catholic Church when we became independent. We all know now, with the publication of all these reports over recent months, just how the church permeated society at all levels and ruled our lives in almost very way.

We were, in effect, ruled from Rome. I'm only surprised that more people haven't noticed it.

What we need is patriotic leaders who look after the Irish people, not traitors like we have had. The Brits have been a curse on this Island, only a fool would want them back, or a west brit traitor or course.

This is the 21st Century, this is the western world. We Irish are too fond of calling people "traitors" and labeling anyone who dares speak any opinion that isnt Republican as "west-brits" and other assorted tripe.

Just to emphasise the point, it's a sad thing that the OP had to outline his patriotism at the very beginning of the post. I see his reasoning - its just unfortunate that he felt he had to do it. Shows how narrow minded and without reason many modern Irish people can be that he felt the need to justify himself from the start, knowing full well kind of closed-minded replies he could get here.

Hats off to you OP for raising a very good point.

mike65

Any country that hands over schooling and health to a church is not fit be called a republic so yes home rule was Rome rule but the Northern Protestants were/are not best placed to argue that point.

catbear

I almost sure but maybe someone can verify or collaborate that the viceroy residence was first offered to the papacy but withdrawn as to appease the republican ideal.

It is ironic that for all the talk of rejecting a foreign monarchy, that Rome wasn't seen as a foreign power.

Scofflaw

What we need is patriotic leaders who look after the Irish people, not traitors like we have had. The Brits have been a curse on this Island, only a fool would want them back, or a west brit traitor or course.

No more of this kind of thing, please - it's either a veiled accusation or loose talk that will be taken as veiled accusation.

moderately,
Scofflaw

loldog

gigino wrote: »

When you look at the mess we made of the country, Its difficult not to come to the conclusion we are not capable of self governance.

Enough with the self-flagellation. The Irish state is one of the oldest and most stable democracies in the world. Long before we got mixed up with the EU we achieved decades of economic growth and rising living standards.

The chief reason we are in an economic mess at present is that we gave up a vital aspect of our self governance viz. control of our currency and our interest rates.

.

KeithAFC

It was absolutely true and it always has been true. I think most people would agree with this.

Manach

With the Catholic church being one of the structural foundations of a stable society.

bmaxi

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

One of the KEY reasons protestants objected to the idea of independence was because they were afraid of a theocratic situation developing here with regard to the Catholic Church. And I'd be the first one to say that after they gave us the Penal Laws and what not, they had some nerve to voice this - but it can't be denied, they got it absolutely right to the letter.

Thoughts?

If my history serves me correctly, the majority of Protestants in the North are Presbyterian of one code or another. As Presbyterians were also discriminated against under the Penal Laws, this is hardly fair comment.

PeterIanStaker

The catholic church has been nothing but a parasite on this island and is probably one of the worst things that happened to us. In a sense the OP is correct but one must remember that Unionism is also insular, paranoid and founded on religious beliefs equally as ridiculous as catholicism. (Someone will surely call me a terrorist for daring to insult unionism now). Religion as a whole has done no favours for the island or its people.

As for the whole self - flagellation inferiority nonsense, that attitude needs to disappear as well; this whole "unfit for self governance" claptrap the Dublin media pushes onto even the most intelligent and open minded people for decades until they start to believe it, has affected the national mindset, partyl resulting in apathy and ignorance and decades of gombeenism and control from the pulpit.

The Waltzing Consumer

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

However, does it ever strike you as ironic that, as things turned out, the Unionists actually kind of had a point? Look at what happened to IReland as a result of theocratic government policy (and is still happening, indeed - look at laws on abortion, assisted suicide, consensual sex between teenagers, etc). They were right about it. And it maddens and saddens me to have to admit that, but at the same time I find it very ironic.

Just a quick question. Your three examples are abortion laws, assisted suicide and consensual sex between teens.

One, abortion laws. As far as I knew, Northern Ireland is very anti-abortion and the laws they have in Britain don't apply there. Women in Northern Ireland have to travel to Britain if they are getting an abortion, just like any of our women. So how is "protestant" Northern Ireland different from "catholic" Rep. of Ireland there? They seem to share the exact same mentality and laws!

Two, euthenasia. Well, in both the Republic and Northern Ireland, it is illegal, so they are the same. Again, where is this difference you talk about and influence of Rome? Same laws

Three consensual sex between teens. Age of consent is 17 here. It is 16 in Northern Ireland. Not much of a difference.

So my question is this, why the hell did you pick three examples of "Rome Rule" which happen to show how similar the laws and morals of both the Republic and the North are?

PeterIanStaker

Manach wrote: »

With the Catholic church being one of the structural foundations of a stable society.

On its terms and its terms only.

A stable society where unmarried mothers were sent to Magdalene laundries, the last one only closing in 1996.

A stable society that banned contraception, homosexuality and divorce for decades.

A stable society that suppressed and banned art, poetry film and music that it didn't like.

A stable society that saw sex as "evil" but abused thousands of children.

C81

As much as I hate to admit it but.. If there was a united Ireland the very people running the country would end up being the unionists... They would have more savvy than the normal TD that ****ed this country up!!
Rome rule doesn't exsist anymore.. Thankfully.. They r lucky to b still allowed in the country!

Denerick

OP, Northern Unionists are and were the descendants of dissenters; who didn't exactly have a wonderful time during the Penal years either. It was the established church, the anglicans, who enforced the Penal laws.

What Northern Presbyterians were worried about was the influence of Catholic voters diluting their own form of theocratic control in the North of Ireland - it was a sectarian fear. Don't fool yourself; these weren't free living liberals and indeed the average Presbyterian was a lot more puritanical than the average Catholic back in the day.

KeithAFC

The majority of people in the Irish Republic were happy enough to be ruled from Rome and the Pope at the time. You always hear of stories how the Priests got the best food and biscuits etc when visiting a home. Treated like Kings.

jill_valentine

I can kinda see the OPs point. But on the other hand, the rise in a particularly scary flavour of Evangelism up north lately makes me very queasy.

I'd say that perhaps thanks to the Catholic church, we started off at a disadvantage, but the North has taken some alarming turns recently that even my very Catholic mammy would find a bit regressive.

Denerick

C81 wrote: »

As much as I hate to admit it but.. If there was a united Ireland the very people running the country would end up being the unionists... They would have more savvy than the normal TD that ****ed this country up!!
Rome rule doesn't exsist anymore.. Thankfully.. They r lucky to b still allowed in the country!

I must admit, I smirked a little while reading your post.

Regardless, I for one think that Northern Presbyterians would be much better off in a United Ireland. They would be proportionally more influential in the Dublin parliament, they could easily hold the balance of power (presuming they returned on average 15 Dáil seats) in many governments, and they could basically run the 6 county executive in Stormont while they're at it.

If we could just stop neanderthals dancing to the tune of Pearse and co. we'd have a United Ireland a lot sooner and with less drama.

The Waltzing Consumer

KeithAFC wrote: »

The majority of people in the Irish Republic were happy enough to be ruled from Rome and the Pope at the time. You always hear of stories how the Priests got the best food and biscuits etc when visiting a home. Treated like Kings.

I think you will find people tried to treat all guests in their homes as kings. It is called hospitality Keith. If you visited my home, you would get the best food and biscuits too.

LaBaguette

loldog wrote: »

The Irish state is one of the oldest and most stable democracies in the world.

Hem, fair point for 90 years of (relative) stability, but one of the oldest ?

OP point is fair, though it seems to me that "Rome Rule" is becoming a thing of the past here, unlike, say, Poland. From what I've seen, the Catholic influence on politics (and law) is much greater there.

KeithAFC

C81 wrote: »

As much as I hate to admit it but.. If there was a united Ireland the very people running the country would end up being the unionists... They would have more savvy than the normal TD that ****ed this country up!!
Rome rule doesn't exsist anymore.. Thankfully.. They r lucky to b still allowed in the country!

Would a Unionist ever get a majority vote though for his party in a UI though? Dunno. Plus you are also looking at parades issues in a UI.

PeterIanStaker

Denerick wrote: »

If we could just stop neanderthals dancing to the tune of Pearse and co. we'd have a United Ireland a lot sooner and with less drama.

Absolutely, and if we could also stop neandarthals dancing to the tune of Myers, Harris, O'Brien and Dudley - Edwards, we'd also be a lot better off.

Denerick, I'm not saying you're one (don't ban me lol) I'm in fact referring to the inferiority complex that certain sections of the media thrive on pushing onto people.

The retarded ideologies north and south, that have been encouraged and promulgated well past their sell by date, need to go, and take their respective versions of goat herder nonsense with them.

sollar

I hope we move fast to a completely secular state soon. Religion should be a private matter.

I'm sick of hearing the angelus at 12 and 6 on RTE, why are we still listening to that.

Brussels Sprout

The 4 stages of Ireland:

First we were under the English
Then we were under the Church
Next we got rich
And now we're broke

I'd like to think that as a country we've learned something from each of those experiences

The Waltzing Consumer

sollar wrote: »

I hope we move fast to a completely secular state soon. Religion should be a private matter.

I'm sick of hearing the angelus at 12 and 6 on RTE, why are we still listening to that.

RTE has a responsibility to produce programming for all the population and try to be representative, one aspect of that is religious programming, which probably takes up about 0.01% of its airtime. Seriously, you would have to be really lazy if you can't just change the damn channel at 12 or 6. You know it is on RTE, so why the hell don't you change it before it comes on?

invinciblePRSTV

Rome Rule was an inevitable byproduct of splitting Ireland into two with partition, just like NI's government becoming dominated by staunch Protestants post partition.

I'm not here to argue for Republicans or anyone else, but the easy option of splitting Ireland meant that instead of having one government forced by dint of having a large Catholic and Protestant population, as well as one with a strong, organised urban working class, which would have forced the powers that be at the time to develop a constitutional framework which recognised and respected all creeds and political traditions without showing bias to any particular group.

Ultimately this constitution would have had to have been secular in both design and practice - something the ROIs constitution clearly wasn't.

Obviously this didn't happen and instead the two statelets and their majority populations were led on the path to as near a perfect an example as you'll find in 20th Century western Europe of a theocracy with regards the Free State/ROI, whilst obviously NI's polity developed along sectarian lines but with the liberalising influence of Westminster Government policies in the post WWII era.

Boroimhe

What we must take into consideration is that it was the harsh laws on catholics that forced them further into the arms of the church. That had those laws not been place the priest probably wouldn't have held such a position in our society.

We should also take into consideration the fact that the people who suggested the partition (notably Edward Carson) didn't want it to happen and assumed that it would be unpalatable to southeners to accept though he obviously underestimated the fear prevalent at the time.

Where there advantages to British rule? Obviously and obviously not but it would hard to measure the building or roads and infrastructure against human suffering. We should obvioulsy have some sort of connection with the Uk because we are so close together and had the government been fair we would almost certainly still be a part of it, after all it was the mistreatment of our people that led to revolt not the politics. By the by the reason the British gov lent us money is because of the knock on effect thst the clapse of our economy would have on thies not becuase they love us or felt guilty.

I can't see a parades issue, to protest a parade is just thick. Why go against a parade for the battle of the boyne? It was a pivotal moment in Irish, English, European and world history, it was Dutch guy robbing the English crown with the support of the pope, who cares? We should make it a national holiday then build a statue of Brían Boru and Willy of O holding hands and kissing to show how much of a non issue grown ups find it to be.

I was involved in republican politics for a while and all I ever saw was parties doing stupid things to get more activists or to hit the news, I never once saw them trying to solve an issue, not once!

PeterIanStaker

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I'd like to think that as a country we've learned something from each of those experiences

The sad thing is, people haven't learned a damn thing, and they won't learn anything from the current mess, as the election results show - same old Civil War "your-grandad-shot-my-grandad" parties without an idea in their heads, and Labour "doing a Greens".

The Waltzing Consumer

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

The sad thing is, people won't have learned a damn thing.

Quit being so pessimistic. We have not been in a war, we are still an extremely wealthy country with one of the highest quality of living in Western Europe and the world. We made mistakes which every single country does. We will move on. You swear recessions only ever occurred in Ireland and the things that happened here have never happened anywhere else.

The Waltzing Consumer

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

The sad thing is, people haven't learned a damn thing, and they won't learn anything from the current mess, as the election results show - same old Civil War "your-grandad-shot-my-grandad" parties without an idea in their heads, and Labour "doing a Greens".

:rolleyes: enough with the moaning! You just sound like you want people not to have learnt anything.

It is clearly not the same old civil war politics, but god, the misery out of your posts, boy, do they love company!

PeterIanStaker

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Quit being so pessimistic. We have not been in a war, we are still an extremely wealthy country with one of the highest quality of living in Western Europe and the world. We made mistakes which every single country does. We will move on. You swear recessions only ever occurred in Ireland and the things that happened here have never happened anywhere else.

If the country is so wealthy then why did the last govt drive the economy off a cliff through stupidity bordering on treason, then seek a bailout that will be paid by our grandchildren? Why are people emigrating in droves because all this wealth can't generate jobs? I personally will be gone at the end of the year, I would prefer not to, but do I really stay here and keep doing unpaid work placements while havin' a good oul' pray?

PeterIanStaker

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

:rolleyes: enough with the moaning! You just sound like you want people not to have learnt anything.

It is clearly not the same old civil war politics, but god, the misery out of your posts, boy, do they love company!

The only difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael is that FG haven't been in office long enough to royally banjax things. FF however did deprive Ireland of its economic sovereignity.

invinciblePRSTV

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

RTE has a responsibility to produce programming for all the population and try to be representative, one aspect of that is religious programming, which probably takes up about 0.01% of its airtime. Seriously, you would have to be really lazy if you can't just change the damn channel at 12 or 6. You know it is on RTE, so why the hell don't you change it before it comes on?

Another reason i look forward to the day when the state broadcaster is sold off.

The "ah shur what harm" approach to keeping relics from a bygone era on publicly funded broadcast TV is nonsense. There are plenty of religious specific TV channels in the world for those who want religion on their gogglebox, there's no need for it on a state broadcaster.

sollar

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

RTE has a responsibility to produce programming for all the population and try to be representative, one aspect of that is religious programming, which probably takes up about 0.01% of its airtime. Seriously, you would have to be really lazy if you can't just change the damn channel at 12 or 6. You know it is on RTE, so why the hell don't you change it before it comes on?

Its on the radio at work too. I just think its ridiculous to have that dong...dong...dong...dong goin on at 12 and 6.

I can't do polls on here but i'd imagine most people would like to see the back of it.

The Waltzing Consumer

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If the country is so wealthy then why did the last govt drive the economy off a cliff through stupidity bordering on treason, then seek a bailout that will be paid by our grandchildren? Why are people emigrating in droves because all this wealth can't generate jobs? I personally will be gone at the end of the year, I would prefer not to, but do I really stay here and keep doing unpaid work placements while havin' a good oul' pray?

Well firstly, people are not emigrating in their droves. That is just a myth and been debunked already as election scare mongering. We have non-Irish leaving the country and we have a slight increase in the numbers of Irish leaving, it is not droves though.

FF were more concerned in staying in power then making tough decisions, that is why. They are and were corrupt. Simple. They also followed other countries in their policies and hence, the global recession.

The Waltzing Consumer

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

The only difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael is that FG haven't been in office long enough to royally banjax things. FF however did deprive Ireland of its economic sovereignity.

Because Ireland never had a national debt before the recession?

im invisible

sollar wrote: »

I'm sick of hearing the angelus at 12 and 6 on RTE, why are we still listening to that.

No but you see, its set up so you can get the headlines on BBC, and then switch over for the Irish news

Hannibal

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

If the country is so wealthy then why did the last govt drive the economy off a cliff through stupidity bordering on treason, then seek a bailout that will be paid by our grandchildren? Why are people emigrating in droves because all this wealth can't generate jobs? I personally will be gone at the end of the year, I would prefer not to, but do I really stay here and keep doing unpaid work placements while havin' a good oul' pray?

Northern English cities like Liverpool and Manchester were and continue to be decimated by unemployment and poverty.
35% of the United States lives below the poverty line.
So Ireland isn't all that bad in reality.
We put all our eggs in the construction industry basket and our whole economy and wealth was generated by the builders. Unemployment can be caused by many things but maybe our population is now too big to have enough jobs to go around. As companies modernise they bring in machines and computers to do what was previously manual labour etc.. It's not an easy problem to solve.

charlemont

I agree with your post, the country went backward while the influence of the church got stronger.
But I think if the island never had partition the church would never have been handed virtual power of the Republic, The unionists wouldn't have allowed it happen.

PeterIanStaker

I can't believe the forthright, upstanding individuals of Fianna Fail the Republican Party chose to save their own skins rather than make hard decisions. I'm still trying to get my head around it.

The Waltzing Consumer

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Another reason i look forward to the day when the state broadcaster is sold off.

The "ah shur what harm" approach to keeping relics from a bygone era on publicly funded broadcast TV is nonsense. There are plenty of religious specific TV channels in the world for those who want religion on their gogglebox, there's no need for it on a state broadcaster.

Yeah, they are private TV channels and don't have a mandate for representing all aspects of our communities in programming.

It is not "ah shur what harm" approach. RTE have a mandate and responsibility to make programming that appeals to everyone and can be representative of everyone. One aspect of this is religious programming which is very limited compared to other aspects of programming. Again, you are talking about two minutes in a whole day dedicated to religious programming. Even if the catholic population was only 10%, that is reason enough to have it included. This is a representative democracy, we aim to be inclusive.

Hannibal

im invisible wrote: »

No but you see, its set up so you can get the headlines on BBC, and then switch over for the Irish news

Try UTV instead at 6 for the headlines as it's also Irish news

Boroimhe

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Because Ireland never had a national debt before the recession?

Actually when the state first came into existence we were loaned money from BOI and hence instead of the country never being in debt we have always been debt. We can't blame one government for everything, at the end of the day it is the people's fault because we voted them in or we didn't vote and allowed them in and once in we did nothing about it = Our fault.

All politicians are corrupt (English, Irish and Slovakian), they sustain a corrupt system in which people get paid far to much for doing far to little with little to no accountability.

PeterIanStaker

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Because Ireland never had a national debt before the recession?

As regards debt, there's debt and then there's a government who shot the economy in the head.

The Waltzing Consumer

sollar wrote: »

Its on the radio at work too. I just think its ridiculous to have that dong...dong...dong...dong goin on at 12 and 6.

I can't do polls on here but i'd imagine most people would like to see the back of it.

It is not about polls. It is about the public service broadcasting mandate where they have to make programming which is representatvie of everyone. The majority of elderly people are quite religious and just looking at that population, it is reason enough for RTE to broadcast the angelus. Seriously, two minutes in a whole day. Get a grip. Every public broadcaster has a mandate to be inclusive of its community. If you want to get rid of angelus, everyone has to be non-catholic.

The Waltzing Consumer

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

As regards debt, there's debt and then there's a government who shot the economy in the head.

Yes, they certainly did in some aspects. Construction and the public service springs to mind. But that is not the whole country and that is not the whole economy. It is sluggish, it may take years to reach 4 or 5% unemployed, but it is achievable, we did it before, other countries have had similar experiences, it is a learning process unfortunately.

PeterIanStaker

Do you really think the new govt will make a difference? I think its still to early to say,(and I'm a cynical b@stard).

Not everyone in "the public sector" made this mess, yes its in serious need of reform but the lower clerical officer/footsoldier grades aren't responsible. The senior men in the PS, some of whom still haven't taken pay cuts, wouldn't last half an hour in the private sector.

As for the construction industry and the accompanying developers, bankers and politicos, that's gonna take a lot longer to fix, as we firstly need to rid the Irish psyche of the compulsive need to own property at any cost, while coming down hard - and I'm talking prison time and barred from company directorship style hard - on corruption in these intertwined sectors.

invinciblePRSTV

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah, they are private TV channels and don't have a mandate for representing all aspects of our communities in programming.

Which is why i welcome RTE being sold off, this idea that publicly funded broadcasters should soak up taxpayers money and in turn produce programming to appeal to special interests is a relic from a by gone era. Every person will have digital TV in the next few years and will have access to plenty of religious specific TV stations should they want them.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

It is not "ah shur what harm" approach. RTE have a mandate and responsibility to make programming that appeals to everyone and can be representative of everyone. One aspect of this is religious programming which is very limited compared to other aspects of programming.

It is an "ah shur what harm" approach and one you're directly propogating in the quote below by saying ah shur it's only on two minutes a day.

Let's take your reasoning to its logical conclusion and mandate RTE to serve it's community by broadcasting daily prayers to Allah, daily Jewish prayers, daily King James Bible readings, daily Buddhist chants etc....

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Again, you are talking about two minutes in a whole day dedicated to religious programming. Even if the catholic population was only 10%, that is reason enough to have it included. This is a representative democracy, we aim to be inclusive.

This is a nominally representative democracy, where the Catholic church has had undue special influence since it's inception in the various aspects of the public service. This is why i argue for RTE to be auctioned off, because it, like the idea of the Catholic Church having a special role in various aspects from social policy to publicly funded broadcasts is anethama to the secular society the ROI now is.