Marketing and advertising in Surfing

FlashD

Hi,

Just wondering does really aggresive marketing and advertising of a surfbrand, surfshop or surfing website turn potential customers off? I guess this question could be asked of anything but as this is the surfing forum i'll stick with that.

My take is that it takes time to build a regular client base by supplying a decent product, customer service, ....not by shoving it in people's face.

Interested in opinions.

Regards.

rodento

Have to say I'm starting to find the shorebreak posts really annoying for some reason.

Just think that if they put a much better effort into doing their website, I wouldn't mind so much, but its just so cluttered and nasty, it'd put anyone off

But your post reminds me of a company that launched their website last year, twas ment to be an online line surf shop but they wanted to make an irish version of magic seaweed first, they pissed so many people off, theyended up alienating their client base and the shop/website never really took off, has to be a lesson in their somewhere:eek:

FlashD

Being honest it was the 'shorebreak' posts that got me thinking about it.

I also was beginning to find them really annoying.

I was wondering was it just me or if this is some new form of aggresive marketing that works on potential customers as I have seen it happen before... I can't remember any of these business ventures ever surviving longterm though.

spaceHopper

I'd have no problem with a new company putting up a post to introduce themself and leave it at that of be part of the forum here . But the way the guy from shorebreak has been shilling - well lets say that when Nicky-B promoted his shop by responding to post in fair and genuine way he was banned for shilling yet nothing has been done to shorebreak.

Macanri

spaceHopper wrote: »

I'd have no problem with a new company putting up a post to introduce themself and leave it at that of be part of the forum here . But the way the guy from shorebreak has been shilling - well lets say that when Nicky-B promoted his shop by responding to post in fair and genuine way he was banned for shilling yet nothing has been done to shorebreak.

+1 No problem with a new company introducing themselves, and providing advice to other users; without pimping their business. But to be pure shilling is not on.

spaceHopper

Macanri wrote: »

+1 No problem with a new company introducing themselves, and providing advice to other users; without pimping their business. But to be pure shilling is not on.

Looked up the domain details and his name isn't on them, maybe he a friend doing them a "favour" any way the other side the mentioned has some cracking videos of Irish surf on them

http://www.onitsurf.com/onit-surf-session-films.html

glide

FlashD wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering does really aggresive marketing and advertising of a surfbrand, surfshop or surfing website turn potential customers off? I guess this question could be asked of anything but as this is the surfing forum i'll stick with that.

My take is that it takes time to build a regular client base by supplying a decent product, customer service, ....not by shoving it in people's face.

Interested in opinions.

Regards.

new shapers do this all the time!
i find it funny that they put there prices as high if not more than established shapers, when the products cannot compete

when i started out i did mine at materials cost + £40 so i could get experience to many people think they can buy there way to make a good surfboard!
it is a real long learning curve!
when i first posted on this website i was banned for advertising

glide

oh and word of mouth is always the best form of advertising!

cornbb

If spamming/shilling is bothering anyone, please report the posts. That sort of thing is banned.

If someone is an established poster and is getting genuine independent recommendations then they may get a little leeway as long as they don't take the Mick.

NickDrake

The aggressive advertising doesn't seem to be doing emerald surfwear. They had an episode of fade street based on them. Now that is pretty lame and they have rowed in behind the Doolin harbour proposal.

Now from what I can see, it is doing their sales the world of good and they just opened a shop in Dublin. However, not everyone is that keen on their attitude regarding naming spots on their t shirts and getting involved in the Doolin issue.

spaceHopper

NickDrake wrote: »

The aggressive advertising doesn't seem to be doing emerald surfwear. They had an episode of fade street based on them. Now that is pretty lame and they have rowed in behind the Doolin harbour proposal.

Now from what I can see, it is doing their sales the world of good and they just opened a shop in Dublin. However, not everyone is that keen on their attitude regarding naming spots on their t shirts and getting involved in the Doolin issue.

In this case somebody who was from SB or a friend or somebody who just wanted to do them a favour was spaming the forum by posting in long dead treads about how great SB is.

As for Emerald, haven't seen the T-Shirts but I can't imagine them naming secret sport they would be told by the locals to stop and be left with a lot of stock or shunned for naming spots.

If their business is doing well then great - don't know what your problems with them being of fade street but then I haven't watched it was a bit sad, sound like you did and loved it - oh well.

They haven't come one here posting 50 times about how great they are, I've no problems if they did it once!

NickDrake

If you read my post you can see if called appearing on fade street lame. Considering everyone was on about the episode and how pathetic is was. I suggest you take a look at it.

I am just stating what people are saying out in the water. No need to have a go at me. They are an Irish company doing well and it is great but sometimes a surf brand should have a little bit more respect.

OldGuysRule

The Emerald guys are locals down here, some of the best surfers around - I am not talking just about the guys who they sponsor, but also about the guys who set up and run Emerald. Do you know any of them?

Please advise where they name secret spots on their t-shirts? You are throwing around an accusation.

NickDrake

As I said it is great to see an Irish surf company doing well. All I am saying is that not everyone single surfer is delighted about them putting their brand in doolin.

I am sure many locals find nothing wrong with it but not everyone sees it that way. I think people are entitled to their own views? No or is surfing all about following the massive ? Didn't think it was

Regarding the t shirt. Dont think they were secret spots but a friend of mine said the shirt had names and photos of r@l@ys etc. Prob nothing wrong with that as they are great waves but just not sure every surfer wants them on a t shirt.

I could be wrong and publicity is what people want for those waves and the more publicity the likes of that waves get the better.

PeakOutput

I have been involved in numerous 'alternative' sports communities throughout the years and one in particular very heavily. Every one of them has an element of people that are not happy with anything that makes anything got to do with their sport more mainstream. They rail against any sort of marketing or hype a person tries to get around their business (shilling on a website isn't acceptable but thats not what I am talking about). And I understand that, everyone sees their particular hobby in a form of pure, this is how it should be / it was better back in the day idealistic light and that is a very easy position to take when you have a 9-5 job a and aren't relying on that hobby to make a living.

If a company says one thing about their product in an add that someone disagrees with they instantly get jumped on for lieing and trying to take advantage of the community when in actual fact its just marketing that every other company on the planet takes advantage off as well. It seems to be an unfortunate trend in the communities that build up around these more lifestyle orientated sports.

The fact of the matter is 99% of these people are just normal every day people like you and me with a passion for the same things you are passionate about, be it surfing, skateboarding, windsurfing, skydiving mountain biking, whatever and they are trying to find a way to mould a career from their passion and not only should they not be ridiculed for trying it they should be relentlessly encouraged (particularly in surfing, the 'hidden' commercialisation and globalisation in the surf industry is ridiculous and the idea that emerald being on fade street is somehow more damaging to the irish surf community then every surfer in the country sending millions of euro every year to foreign companies is so outrageous that it boggles my mind).

If the criticisms were based on some deep understanding of a companies business practices it would be one thing but usually they are based on a cursory look at an article or a web page and an individual decides he dosn't like one small aspect and feels thats enough to ridicule a company at every opportunity.

This is going to be the second post I have made that could be interpretted as sticking up for Emerald and you can read it like that if you want but in my own number one sport of choice I have seen the damage to individuals, business's, industries and communities that this kind of close mindedness can cause, not to me personally but to some close friends and I think its a shame.

edit; I also know of one massive example in my own industry were the person did his best to run his business in a manner that reflected the 'views and ideals' of the community (offering great deals, passing on distributor discounts, only trying to make enough money to earn a modest wage for himself) and he provided a great service to the community including me.........for two years and now he has a destroyed reputation and is fighting bankruptcy while being completely ostracized from the community he was trying to help all because he was sure that it was possible to run a business by these new ideals and rules rather then traditional sound business practice that involves marketing and appealing to a wider market.

NickDrake

Excellent post. Like all brands not everyone agrees with every aspect of their marketing etc.

One thing for sure is it is great to see an Irish surf company doing well and some of their stuff is great.

I am sure everyone wishes them every success either way as they seem genuine lads.

I suppose you can't please every surfer but they are entitled to their view and it should be respected .

spaceHopper

NickD has posted about Emerald before in a negative way, think that's his thing. I was looking at the Irish Kite surfing forum this week and last - f-me they have a sense of comunity, work together and to help each other and as a result have more fun, get more out of life and some of them make an open living out of it. What's wrong with at we all need to buy boards, suits, wax...... Anyway maybe I'll have to visit the new show in Dublin and by a T-Shirt I need a few anyway!

NickDrake

I have also said a lot of positive things about emerald. I think they are doing a great job and respect to them. I just mentioned an instance where people had an opinion.

Didn't think a difference of opinion is necessarily a negative.

spaceHopper

NickDrake wrote: »

I have also said a lot of positive things about emerald. I think they are doing a great job and respect to them. I just mentioned an instance where people had an opinion.

Didn't think a difference of opinion is necessarily a negative.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71334590&postcount=68

rodento

Beginning to think that nick has some issues:eek:

Nothing wrong with the tea shirt if thats your cuppa tea



Wouldn't be seen dead in it meself

Jomob

@PeakOutput - one of the best posts ive read here in ages, you are spot on.

Its a fact of life that you cant please everyone all the time. It seems very apparent to me though that especially in surfing these few displeased people tend to have a big voice and give the impression that every surfer thinks the way they do, when in actual fact probably 99% of surfers are more than happy to see an Irish company setting up in a time of recession, trying to do well for themselves and trying to make their passion their living. Id rather be buying clothes from these lads than Rip-Quik-a-Bong.

The general vibe is that these (emerald) lads are experienced locals. They've set up a business and are trying hard to make a good stab at making it work in a way that any new business would. Do you expect them to set up a business and then not market it properly? Thats just being naive if you think that.

Regarding the naming of secret spots, i havent seen any of their t-shirts that do that but if its about the above t-shirt then thats ridiculous. That wave is so publicised at this stage that a t-shirt wont make a blind bit of difference to it (unless theres a bloody map on the back of the t-shirt with directions to the place!)

dedon

Jomob wrote: »

@PeakOutput - one of the best posts ive read here in ages, you are spot on.

Its a fact of life that you cant please everyone all the time. It seems very apparent to me though that especially in surfing these few displeased people tend to have a big voice and give the impression that every surfer thinks the way they do, when in actual fact probably 99% of surfers are more than happy to see an Irish company setting up in a time of recession, trying to do well for themselves and trying to make their passion their living. Id rather be buying clothes from these lads than Rip-Quik-a-Bong.

The general vibe is that these (emerald) lads are experienced locals. They've set up a business and are trying hard to make a good stab at making it work in a way that any new business would. Do you expect them to set up a business and then not market it properly? Thats just being naive if you think that.

Regarding the naming of secret spots, i havent seen any of their t-shirts that do that but if its about the above t-shirt then thats ridiculous. That wave is so publicised at this stage that a t-shirt wont make a blind bit of difference to it (unless theres a bloody map on the back of the t-shirt with directions to the place!)

That is not Aileens. That wave on the tshirt hasn't gotten the same publicity.

Jomob

Did I say it was aileens? No I didn't.
I know what wave it is and if anyone has read a surf mag, seen an Irish/UK surfing video/film or looked at any Irish/UK surfing website/blog in the last 3 years then they'll have seen it and the name. Putting a pic of it on a tshirt with no name will not make any difference. Get real.

dedon

Jomob wrote: »

Did I say it was aileens? No I didn't.
I know what wave it is and if anyone has read a surf mag, seen an Irish/UK surfing video/film or looked at any Irish/UK surfing website/blog in the last 3 years then they'll have seen it and the name. Putting a pic of it on a tshirt with no name will not make any difference. Get real.

Chill man. No need to be so aggressive. I hope you are not like that out in the water.

FlashD

PeakOutput wrote: »

edit; I also know of one massive example in my own industry were the person did his best to run his business in a manner that reflected the 'views and ideals' of the community (offering great deals, passing on distributor discounts, only trying to make enough money to earn a modest wage for himself) and he provided a great service to the community including me.........for two years and now he has a destroyed reputation and is fighting bankruptcy while being completely ostracized from the community he was trying to help all because he was sure that it was possible to run a business by these new ideals and rules rather then traditional sound business practice that involves marketing and appealing to a wider market.

Interesting post, I can understand the bankruptcy part if the business didn't succeed but how did this person end up destroying their reputation and get ostracised from the community if they did their level best?

Never heard of Emerald but fair play to them if the business is working out, I guess this is the other side of the coin, building a business locally first and then expanding through word of mouth, finally getting the odd bit of plugging on TV and bulding from there.

I think the majority of surfers are so passionite about the sport that they are always suspicious of anyone starting up a business or trying to make money from the sport. It's always seen as a sellout.

It makes me wonder how some companies (Billabong, Quiksilver, Mctavish) managed to get so huge globally. Did these companies originally market agressively when they started out first?

PeakOutput

FlashD wrote: »

Interesting post, I can understand the bankruptcy part if the business didn't succeed but how did this person end up destroying their reputation and get ostracised from the community if they did their level best?

He decided to expand and keep the same business practices he had before, because he thought it could work on a larger scale. He took on investors to help with the expansion. this brought pressure for returns. and he did some things he shouldn't have like taking money for orders and using that money to place orders for other things on the assumption that he could get revenue from those things fast enough to place the order for the original customer. This worked for a while but inevitably it eventually failed and customers got burned on their orders.

He was working with such tight margins because he was trying to offer beginners (and everyone else) in the sport the very best deal possible and that was fine for a one man show running out of his home but once you start looking at taking on expenses like rent and staff and taking on investors you need to have wider profit margins which gets rid of the reason people went to him in the first place

he deserves to be bankrupt and he deserves criticism I was just making the point that communities like this can put unrealistic expectations on people who want to start business's in the area because they see their activity in an ideological light that shouldn't be corrupted by 'capitalism' or whatever.

I a not a business man so my opinion isn't really based on anything but those three companies you have mentioned have all been around since the late 60's early 70's when there was almost no surf industry to speak off so they had the chance to grow and expand with surf culture itself and become synonymous with surfing itself. This is obviously a huge advantage, back in the day I imagine having a factory team and sponsoring events and generally getting the name out there in the community was not as hard as it is today. Technology makes it easier to get on the ladder today for sure but it also means there is far far more competition and differentiating yourself from them is more difficult

Jomob

Chill man. No need to be so aggressive. I hope you are not like that out in the water.

Dont worry, im one of the nicest people you could meet in the water.
Just dont put words in my mouth.

rodento

Why the two user accounts:eek: