What Do You Make Of This?

MetzgerMeister

Hi all,

I was looking at a car recently in a Dublin dealership and put a deposit on it to hold it until I sold my own car. That didn't go very well so I took the deposit off.

I then got someone who was interested in my car so I put the deposit back on the new one. That deal fell through and when I went to take the deposit off, I was told no, you can't.

I'm now down a considerable sum of money with what looks like no recourse. Is it legal for this garage to keep my deposit?

bigneacy

einheisserschre wrote: »

Hi all,

I was looking at a car recently in a Dublin dealership and put a deposit on it to hold it until I sold my own car. That didn't go very well so I took the deposit off.

I then got someone who was interested in my car so I put the deposit back on the new one. That deal fell through and when I went to take the deposit off, I was told no, you can't.

I'm now down a considerable sum of money with what looks like no recourse. Is it legal for this garage to keep my deposit?

Did you sign anything? Did they ever state or imply that the deposit was non-refundable? Even on their sales literature do they mention deposits and what terms they are taken under?

EDIT: Did you get a receipt? What does it say on the receipt? (How much money we talking - closer to 1,000 or 10,000?)

MetzgerMeister

bigneacy wrote: »

Did you sign anything? Did they ever state or imply that the deposit was non-refundable? Even on their sales literature do they mention deposits and what terms they are taken under?

EDIT: Did you get a receipt? What does it say on the receipt? (How much money we talking - closer to 1,000 or 10,000?)

I didn't sign anything, I did everything over the phone. Used my credit card as a means for deposit to be taken.

Didn't get any receipt, we're talking €500. It's a lot of money for me or for anyone to lose these days.

bigneacy

einheisserschre wrote: »

I didn't sign anything, I did everything over the phone. Used my credit card as a means for deposit to be taken.

Didn't get any receipt, we're talking €500. It's a lot of money for me or for anyone to lose these days.

You're too right its a lot of money - i'm not disputing that at all. If they didn't say it was non-refundable or at no point implied that its non-refundable then they have no right to keep it whatsoever and doing so would constitute theft.

Call them again - tell them you are calling over for your €500 refund this afternoon (if you can) and if they refuse, ring the closest Garda station, explain the situation and ask them to meet you there at an agreed time.

EDIT: The Gardaí to meet you at the dealership, rather than the dealer meet you at the Garda Station

einheisserschre

einheisserschre wrote: »

I didn't sign anything, I did everything over the phone. Used my credit card as a means for deposit to be taken.

Didn't get any receipt, we're talking €500. It's a lot of money for me or for anyone to lose these days.

You might be in luck because it was a credit card transaction and might be easier to recoup. If you didnt signt anything it is your word against theirs as to the terms attached to the deposit.

Personally, i wouldnt have put down a deposit until i was sure of having the means to go through with the purchase.

bigneacy

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, i wouldnt have put down a deposit until i was sure of having the means to go through with the purchase.

I'd be the same as yourself songok, but different folks, different strokes as they say

MetzgerMeister

The salesman did actually say that it was non-refundable over the phone but I took the chance anyway. Yes it was very stupid of me but the car was a very rare one and was exactly what I was looking for at the time.

When it comes to cars, I'm very impulsive no matter what the outcome

Even though he said it over the phone, there's no actual proof. Would that stand for anything?

TestTransmission

What was the car anyway?

qz

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it. If you were told it was non-refundable, it's non-refundable and you're being cheeky trying to get it back.

Tigger

bigneacy wrote: »

You're too right its a lot of money - i'm not disputing that at all. If they didn't say it was non-refundable or at no point implied that its non-refundable then they have no right to keep it whatsoever and doing so would constitute theft.

Call them again - tell them you are calling over for your €500 refund this afternoon (if you can) and if they refuse, ring the closest Garda station, explain the situation and ask them to meet you there at an agreed time.

EDIT: The Gardaí to meet you at the dealership, rather than the dealer meet you at the Garda Station

most deposits are by their very nature non-refundable or else what is the point? if you want the car held it's by the security of the dealer having your deposit that he knows you really want it.

calling the garda on this is pointless and they will tell you that it is a civil matter.

your card company may do a charge back for you, americian express would so most irish machines won't read them as its a grey area.

Paying deposits
A deposit is a payment made to a supplier of a product or a service by a consumer which indicates an intention to buy a product or a service. The amount of the deposit and the timing of payment of the balance are a matter between the consumer and the supplier. When you pay a deposit for goods a contract is created between you as a consumer, and the supplier of the product or service. You should be clear at the time of paying a deposit what your obligations are (e.g. when you need to pay the balance, how much each payment is etc). You should also be clear about the duties of the supplier (e.g. when the product will be available).

It is always easier to know what your rights and responsibilities are if you have details of the contract in writing, however, a verbal contract is also enforceable. If the supplier does not adhere to the terms of the contract (e.g. delivery of a product takes significantly longer than stated) you may have a right to ask for your deposit to be returned. If you pay a deposit to a supplier who, in return, holds an article for you and you change your mind about paying the balance the supplier may not in all these circumstances be obliged to return your deposit.

if you did charge back sucessfully you would probably be ok as i doubt the dealer would chase you even if the money was legally his

have you asked for your deposit and what did they say

Tigger

einheisserschre wrote: »

The salesman did actually say that it was non-refundable over the phone but I took the chance anyway. Yes it was very stupid of me but the car was a very rare one and was exactly what I was looking for at the time.

When it comes to cars, I'm very impulsive no matter what the outcome

Even though he said it over the phone, there's no actual proof. Would that stand for anything?

do you mean you are going to lie in court to a judge

lol good luck with that

Nonoperational

Call the guards? What a ridiculous piece of "advice". They wouldn't come out in a month of Sundays. It's not illegal or wrong what the garage are doing.

You were told it was a non refundable deposit which is perfectly reasonable. You have no right to get it back and in my opinion there's no reason you should. They held the car for you, already gave you back the deposit once and now you want it back again. I don't even think it's harsh that they are keeping it. Unlucky loosing €500 but that's the nature of a deposit.

Sounds to me like you were d1cking the garage around, they could have sold the car while you had this "deposit" on the car. A deposit is to hold a car, not to stop them selling it while you sort out selling your own one. They played ball once by giving it back, 2nd time they said f this for a game.

bigneacy

gpf101 wrote: »

Call the guards? What a ridiculous piece of "advice". They wouldn't come out in a month of Sundays. It's not illegal or wrong what the garage are doing.

You were told it was a non refundable deposit which is perfectly reasonable. You have no right to get it back and in my opinion there's no reason you should. They held the car for you, already gave you back the deposit once and now you want it back again. I don't even think it's harsh that they are keeping it. Unlucky loosing €500 but that's the nature of a deposit.

Hey - hold on now - my advice was given when I was under the impression that the deposit was never agreed or implied as Non-refundable. The Gardaí preside over civil disputes in a non-formal way very often, and have done so (to my success) for me twice, so my "advice" was perfectly sound until the OP disclosed that he was told it was non-refundable.

Deposits are not by their nature non-refundable hence, the difference between a deposit and a non-refundable deposit. Thats basic 1st year law.

And, imo if they gave back the deposit once having agreed it was non-refundable then fair play to them.

bigneacy

bigneacy wrote: »

Thats basic 1st year law.

which we all study :rolleyes:

Regardless, I imagine it's covered in secondary school business studies anyway.

bigneacy

RoverJames wrote: »

which we all study :rolleyes:

Regardless, I imagine it's covered in secondary school business studies anyway.

I'm not saying everyone studies it (and yes it is covered in Leaving Cert. Business) but to go around saying a deposit by its very nature is non-refundable - without actually knowing the law - is reckless

unkel

einheisserschre wrote: »

The salesman did actually say that it was non-refundable over the phone but I took the chance anyway. Yes it was very stupid of me

I'm actually quite surprised that he gave you the money back the first time

As Songok says, you paid by credit card. You can start a disputed transaction claim with your credit card company and chances are you get your money back (although you usually would need some proof. It'll be hard denying you gave the salesman your credit card details and the next question would be WHY you gave the credit card details)

Going this route wouldn't be very honest though, would it?

-Corkie-

You were very lucky to get the deposit back the first time not to mind the second. Just get them to hold the car for another while before you sell your own.

slimjimmc

bigneacy wrote: »

I'm not saying everyone studies it (and yes it is covered in Leaving Cert. Business) but to go around saying a deposit by its very nature is non-refundable - without actually knowing the law - is reckless

What was said (by Tigger) was that most deposits by their nature are non-refundable. I think you'll find that most (not all) are indeed non-refundable especially if the buyer is the one who pulled out of the deal.

Both were verbal contracts so it's difficult to prove either way what was said but don't forget it's possible there was a recording or the salesman made a note of the discussion (which in the absence of contradictory records by the OP could give the dealer the upper hand), and the OP does admit he was told the deposit was non-refundable. If it went to court it wouldn't look good for the OP as he messed the dealer around, twice!

bigneacy

slimjimmc wrote: »

What was said (by Tigger) was that most deposits by their nature are non-refundable. I think you'll find that most (not all) are indeed non-refundable especially if the buyer is the one who pulled out of the deal.

Both were verbal contracts so it's difficult to prove either way what was said but don't forget it's possible there was a recording or the salesman made a note of the discussion (which in the absence of contradictory records by the OP could give the dealer the upper hand), and the OP does admit he was told the deposit was non-refundable. If it went to court it wouldn't look good for the OP as he messed the dealer around, twice!

My comments were made on the basis of my first assumption. Knowing what I now know - i.e. the info that was given after my post - I don't think the OP has any right to the money. He was lucky to get the non-refundable deposit back the first time, asking again was just cheeky.

And now trying to figure out ways to get it back from under the dealers nose (chargeback) is just plain, good old fashioned dishonesty.

MetzgerMeister

OK thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. I've gotten the information I need so we can leave it there.

Thanks again!

Also, I wasn't trying to mess the dealer around nor am I actually "taking it to court". I was merely asking if it was legal for them to keep my deposit given that I didn't sign anything and it was all done over the phone.

EPM

Would there be a big difference in price between trading your car into them and selling privately? Especially as you are now down €500. There might be scope to salvage a deal out of all this possibly.

Owen

Also, while they may not be willing to refund the whole amount, maybe they might keep 200/250 and give you back the rest? Worth a shot ...

Anan1

Imagine the uproar if a dealer posted here looking for ways to avoid repaying a deposit that they'd told the customer was refundable.

El Guapo!

In my opinion the dealer was being pretty reasonable giving you the money back the first time. I think he was right to keep the money the second time. I would've kept it too tbh.
Just treat it as an expensive lesson and in future if your putting a deposit on something then you should expect to either buy the item or prepare to lose the deposit.

mickdw

Im stunned that the OP got the first deposit back.
IMO, putting a deposit on a car you are to purchase means -

1/ you lose it if you back out
2/ The car will be held for a reasonable time
3/ you get the deposit back if the deal falls through due to an issue on the sellers side be it with the actual car or whatever.


To think you can go around holding cars by placing a refundable deposit is just silly. It makes the whole idea pointless and the garage would be equally well off if they just started holding cars without deposit.

To think you could get it back the second time, well now, unreal. The garage seem to be very reasonable people tbh.

L-M

Anan1 wrote: »

Imagine the uproar if a dealer posted here looking for ways to avoid repaying a deposit that they'd told the customer was refundable.

Exactly.

The dealer may have lost out on a few chances to sell the car, I think it's only fair to to leave them keep it.

A lesson to be taken from this for everyone is to leave smaller deposits!

jimmyw

The garage just thought you were messing them about, which you were and you weren't:p

Tigger

bigneacy wrote: »

I'm not saying everyone studies it (and yes it is covered in Leaving Cert. Business) but to go around saying a deposit by its very nature is non-refundable - without actually knowing the law - is reckless

1 i know the law
2 i said it was a grey area and that "most" deposits are non refundable
3 you said he should call the gardaí over a deposit thats frankly moronic advice

vtsboy

As has been said the dealer were being reasonable giving you a refund the first time. Imo you were wasting their time. I know you probably didnt mean to but thats what you were doing. If you are genuine about buying the car the best thing to do is go out with the balance you agreed and I am sure they will give you the deposit of.

Also Gardai will have nothing to do with the matter as far as I know its a civil matter???