Need to contact gay Roman Catholic priest.

Shkiptar

Folks,

PLEASE don't mock this. I'm doing this on behalf of a friend and the whole issue is cutting him to pieces. He's not Irish or Catholic but he's fallen in love with a guy who is - both. They're getting along really well and he says, the more time they spend together, the closer they get.

The Irish guy is not out to his family (no major biggie) but he is a devout Catholic and has announced in the last couple of weeks that he wants to end the relationship because it's against his religious convictions. He wants to make sure he saves his mortal soul and get to heaven, as it were.

That's it. He's told my friend to go and find a new boyfriend. They're still seeing each other on a regular basis but each time he raises the issue with my friend: this relationship is ending, find a new boyfriend.

I've scoured the internet. I've also been onto Outhouse to see if there are any groups for gay Catholics (positive ones - not guilt-laden charades like Courage) and they've been unable to come up with anything. No surprise there, I suppose; Jewish Nazis and African-American chapters of the KKK are pretty thin on the ground too.

It did occur to me that if they could speak with a gay Roman Catholic priest (one who is not torturing himself about his sexuality), that might yield something. So does anyone know any gay priests? I'd imagine there'd need to be a lot of confidentiality. They're both guys who are I suppose in their 50s so the Irish guy is unlikely to change his dogmatic approach; old dogs, new tricks, etc.

Indeed, I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any other ideas as to how these two individuals might keep what they have going without one half fearing that he'll be cast into the Eternal Flames when he passes from this mortal coil.

Thanks and regards,
Shkiptar.

Wolfe Tone

Christian forum would probably be the best place for this as most posters will probably simply bash the church and not give you the answers you want.

MagicMarker

If there are any gay priests (there probably is) then I highly doubt they're open about it. I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for.

Shkiptar

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Christian forum would probably be the best place for this as most posters will probably simply bash the church and not give you the answers you want.

Perhaps but given a choice between gay-bashing Christians and Christian-bashing gays, I'd plump for the latter. At least, they'll understand the gay angle to it.

LegacyUser

I'm sure there are plenty of gay priests you could talk to. But what are you hoping for? That one of them will tell your friend it's OK to continue the relationship? Because it's not in the eyes of the Catholic church, and nothing a sympathetic priest can say will change that. If your friend's ex now thinks his immortal soul is in the care of the Catholic Church, then you have to cure him of that, because he so long as he subscribes to that he won't be able to get past the contradiction.

Shkiptar

MagicMarker wrote: »

If there are any gay priests (there probably is) then I highly doubt they're open about it. I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for.

Oh, I know. It's an outside chance.....:(

diddlybit

Hey Shkiptar.

I don't know any priests, let alone any gay ones, but the only thing to spring to mind was an article in GCN on an organisation called Changing Attitude Ireland, who are from their website Anglican, but would it help your friend to speak to someone gay who works with the church?

I presume that many of these people also identify as religous as they are seeking and working towards inclusivness in the CAI.

Sorry it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.

Here's the link to their website

http://www.changingattitudeireland.org/

Shkiptar

diddlybit wrote: »

Hey Shkiptar.

I don't know any priests, let alone any gay ones, but the only thing to spring to mind was an article in GCN on an organisation called Changing Attitude Ireland, who are from their website Anglican, but would it help your friend to speak to someone gay who works with the church?

I presume that many of these people also identify as religous as they are seeking and working towards inclusivness in the CAI.

Sorry it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.

Here's the link to their website

http://www.changingattitudeireland.org/

Thanks a million. I'll contact them. They didn't come up in searches because I was looking for "gay catholic" and they're more general Christiany or Anglican as you say but they might be able to help out.

Thanks again!

diddlybit

There was a thread here a while back on being Christian and Queer.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056235160

Johnny posted a link to this organisation too if that helps, they are an LGBT church group.

https://sites.google.com/site/branchingoutcc/

easychair

MagicMarker wrote: »

If there are any gay priests (there probably is) then I highly doubt they're open about it. I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for.

This post made me laugh out loud. "If there are any gay priests" must qualify for the innocent remark of the year. There are literally hundreds of gay priests, and again we see the marvel that is the Christian Church responsible for making more people miserable for feeling what they feel.

I feel so sad for to OP's friend, and outraged that the RC church is, once again, at the root of making him and the man he has found, both feel miserable and wretched.

Why anyone has anything to do with the disgraced RC church is a mystery.

Canard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82xim9MzArc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8hekZY8SDI
these might help

SugarHigh

I remember an interview with a gay Priest from Donegal. I think he was kicked out I'm not sure.

Aishae

hi OP - it sounds like the guy really has to come to terms with the idea of being religious but also being gay. technically there is a lot in the bible that would fly in the face of what is and is not acceptable. sex before marriage, using contraception - as examples. but indeed there are many examples in the bible. we dont stone people anymore - what were once considered stoneable crimes are not now,. times change, the world accepts things that they didnt a long time ago. most people who are religious (to various extents) seem to accept that the bible itself was 'the word of the lord' but it was written at the hand of man. and man is not infalliable and we often put our own slant on things.

perhaps its not a gay priest - specifically - that he needs to speak to. but maybe other deeply religious people who dont stick rigidly to what was the norm when the book was written. someone who is religious but modern and open minded who he can chat to. ?

Annasopra

SugarHigh wrote: »

I remember an interview with a gay Priest from Donegal. I think he was kicked out I'm not sure.

This guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Buckley

Annasopra

Aishae wrote: »

hi OP - it sounds like the guy really has to come to terms with the idea of being religious but also being gay. technically there is a lot in the bible that would fly in the face of what is and is not acceptable. sex before marriage, using contraception - as examples. but indeed there are many examples in the bible. we dont stone people anymore - what were once considered stoneable crimes are not now,. times change, the world accepts things that they didnt a long time ago. most people who are religious (to various extents) seem to accept that the bible itself was 'the word of the lord' but it was written at the hand of man. and man is not infalliable and we often put our own slant on things.

perhaps its not a gay priest - specifically - that he needs to speak to. but maybe other deeply religious people who dont stick rigidly to what was the norm when the book was written. someone who is religious but modern and open minded who he can chat to. ?

Good point - DS333 referred to some books ages ago - maybe this book might help?

http://www.amazon.com/Church-Homosexual-John-J-McNeill/dp/0807079316

Sir Ophiuchus

I've recommended "Since My Last Confession" elsewhere, but it's a brilliant book on how the author reconciled genuine Catholic spirituality with being gay, in a positive way.

http://www.amazon.com/Since-My-Last-Confession-Catholic/dp/1559708697

blogga

Your friend is getting good advice: from the guy he wants. He should move on. Otherwise he's looking at possibly years of listening to guilt and realizing that the only purpose the relationship serves for his lover is to make him hate himself more. The only way forward for that relationship is for the other guy to realize that his own existence is a contradiction of the drivel he has been trained to believe. Embrace your own life and be free.

philologos

Aishae wrote: »

Most people who are religious (to various extents) seem to accept that the bible itself was 'the word of the lord' but it was written at the hand of man. and man is not infalliable and we often put our own slant on things.

For clarification - most people who would hold to Christian belief would hold that the Bible was written by man, but is inspired by God. It is the inspiration of God that renders it His word rather than the word of individuals.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 wrote:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The next Scripture I'm posting is also interesting:

2 Peter 1:20 wrote:

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

bodice ripper

Jakkass wrote: »

For clarification - most people who would hold to Christian belief would hold that the Bible was written by man, but is inspired by God. It is the inspiration of God that renders it His word rather than the word of individuals.



The next Scripture I'm posting is also interesting:

But it IS ok for the reader to interpret which handful of lines is super important, and which is just drivel that is no longer relevant in today's society, right? Perhaps the all knowing should have been more to the point.

Op- there is no point going to a priest hoping he will back your view point cause he is gay. You are still appealing to the authority of a religion which says the act is evil, the answer can only be "stop" with maybe a "god understands your suffering" thrown in if the priest is a nice chap.

Shkiptar

Hi folks,

Thanks again for all the replies. I don't (seem to) have enough posts yet to thank people individually.

Annasopra

Hi guys - discussion of the bible is a little bit off topic

philologos

I'll PM in response. It's just important to clarify some things sometimes

TylerIE

There is the Gay Christian Network. (known as the GCN)

They go "both ways" so to speak in that they recognise two types of Gay people.

1 - Those who are gay and feel that it is ok to be engaged in an intimate sexual relationship (Side A)
2 - Those who are gay and feel that while its ok to be gay, gay individuals are called upon to engage in lifelong Celibacy (side b)
If im not mistaken the Catholic Church position is essentially side b.

The GCN has a number of videos and a DVD called "Through my Eyes" which discuss essentially the theological side of being gay and a Christian.

They have a UK group and the leader is actually a straight lady.


The RC Church has a number of documents on this and Im not going to promote their position here but it essentially appears to condemn the "sin" of homosexual sex not a homosexual non-sexual relationship.

I have a book on "Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church" where it disects their teaching. I also have that Gay Christian Network DVD which is featured on their website. PM me if you want to borrow.

Also there is the Metropolitan Community Church - American but also in the UK and they are very much LGBT friendly. They are featured in the film Prayers for Bobby. They have a number of churchs in London and all welcome visitors. Your friend may consider becoming a member and attending service every few months????

Finally the Dublin Unitarian Church is I believe accepting of all individuals regardless of orientation. They do an annual mass in memory of Trans individuals who have died. I certainly believe that their Minister would be willing to talk to your friend if you cannot find a gay priest. She is most pleasant during the Trans service and I certainly expect that she would be compassionate with your friend.

There are gay priests, but Iv yet to meet one thats out, and being from a very "involved" Catholic family who has Priests in the house at least three times a week, I havnt heard of any who are out in neighbouring diocese nor hav never met any "out" Priests out of the 100+ I would have dealt with. The only one I had heard of before was running an ex gay ministry!

I guess that what Im saying is that using the above your friend could find a very strong argument stating that its ok to be a celibate gay Catholic, or else he can explore a wide variety of other options of remaining a Christian without it conflicting with his sexuality.

easychair

lst wrote: »

I have a book on "Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church" where it disects their teaching. I also have that Gay Christian Network DVD which is featured on their website. PM me if you want to borrow.

I thought the point of the RCC is that it's not a democracy, and you either agree with their teaching or not. Is dissection of their teaching allowed?

TylerIE

easychair wrote: »

I thought the point of the RCC is that it's not a democracy, and you either agree with their teaching or not. Is dissection of their teaching allowed?

The book includes all their documents - e.g. "pastoral care homosexual persons" etc and a discussion and comparison.

Regardless of the readers interpretation or faith it provides an insight into their teaching

Fuinseog

Johnnymcg wrote: »

This guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Buckley

I should point out Buckely was excommunicated a long time ago.

You will be hardpressed to find a priest who will condone a homosexual lifestyle, no more than they will condone a hetero who wants support for a hedonistic lifestyle.

Catholics have nothing against gays but asking them to support such a lifestyles contravenes fundamental Christian beliefs.

rainbow kirby

Fuinseog wrote: »

Catholics have nothing against gays but asking them to support such a lifestyles contravenes fundamental Christian beliefs.

/facepalm

Being gay is not a "lifestyle" - it's part of who you are.

TylerIE

rainbow kirby wrote: »

/facepalm

Being gay is not a "lifestyle" - it's part of who you are.

I didnt want to say it, I was afraid I'd go OTT.

blackberryguy

I remember I was having this problem a few months ago!
I found this priest on facebook and I actually found him very helpful.
http://www.facebook.com/BishopJosephRyan

DivaGamer

I would echo the previous advice posted in this thread regarding GCN being a great network (and there are a lot of essays, videos and forum threads dissecting almost every verse of the bible and how it may or may not relate to homosexuality on that site).

In addition though, I would strongly recommend checking out this book - http://www.amazon.com/Children-Are-Free-Reexamining-Relationships/dp/0971929602 - I personally found it one of the most comforting resources I've found when I was having faith Vs sexuality drama.

Asry

Branching Out is good https://sites.google.com/site/branchingoutcc/
good luck. It's really going to be a case of him having to renounce his faith rather than what any priest can say to him.

Conor30

blackberryguy wrote: »

I remember I was having this problem a few months ago!
I found this priest on facebook and I actually found him very helpful.
http://www.facebook.com/BishopJosephRyan

Wow, he has loads of facebook friends! He must be quite a liberal priest if he's into Hans Kung! How did you come across this priest?

I found this about him. I wonder whether there is any truth in it?
http://thetruthaboutsottovoce.blogspot.com/2010/01/10-unholy-commandments-of-mr-joseph.html According to that he's not a real priest at all, but I don't know anything about him myself.