Where would a Munster / Leinster ML final be played?

padser

Been talking to a few mates about this recently. I'm convinced that the IRFU would move such a final to the Avia.

It's an extra 20k people and tickets would be in the €30 to €40 range I reckon (although I wouldn't rule out €50) which means it's an extra €400k to €600k

Personally I wouldn't see them passing up on that given that they moved all of Leinsters group games there, even though it damaged Leinsters chances of getting out of their group (seems irrelevant now, but certainly wasn't back then).

I assume it would fairly p!ss off Munster - but still can't see it not happening

TheHighRoad

padser wrote: »

Been talking to a few mates about this recently. I'm convinced that the IRFU would move such a final to the Avia.

It's an extra 20k people and tickets would be in the €30 to €40 range I reckon (although I wouldn't rule out €50) which means it's an extra €400k to €600k

Personally I wouldn't see them passing up on that given that they moved all of Leinsters group games there, even though it damaged Leinsters chances of getting out of their group (seems irrelevant now, but certainly wasn't back then).

I assume it would fairly p!ss off Munster - but still can't see it not happening

Yes it will be moved there (if it happens). People will complain that this is unfair on Munster whilst failing to point out that Leinster had to move their home game this year against Munster from the RDS to Aviva (where they were as familar as Munster at the time) in order to receive extra profit for the IRFU. Its more unfair now but considering that the the Magners Final is a neutral event where ticket allocations will be divided evenly and the stadium will not be furnished with either team's flags, banners etc. then does it really matter if Leinster players have played there 9 times when Munster players have played there 5 times this year? Main problem I can see is it would be a very unfair to expect Munster supporters to fork out travelling costs.

CouchSmart

Thomond. Hopefully.

irishbucsfan

TheHighRoad wrote: »

failing to point out that Leinster had to move their home game this year against Munster from the RDS to Aviva (where they were as familar as Munster at the time)

Not nearly the same though. Moving the match a mile from the RDS to the Aviva isn't nearly the same as moving the match to an entire different city.

If the reward for finishing first is getting to play the final at home, then Munster should be allowed play the final at home.

DDC1990

Thomond.

/thread

profitius

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Yes it will be moved there (if it happens). People will complain that this is unfair on Munster whilst failing to point out that Leinster had to move their home game this year against Munster from the RDS to Aviva (where they were as familar as Munster at the time) in order to receive extra profit for the IRFU.

They kept that profit themselves.

ambid

Very good idea to open a thread on this as it's been debated in a couple of other threads. My view, from the Munster gossip thread, is this...

This is also debated in the "Magners League - 6 rounds remaining thread". The thing is there is a soccer tournament called the "Nations Cup" involving Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales in the Aviva the week of the Magners Grand Final. They have matches on the Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday so I doubt the the union could schedule a rugby match on the Saturday as five matches in six days would probably be too much for the pitch.

However, the IRFU could probably make an extra €1 million from a sold out Aviva compared to Thomond (at €40 per ticket). With player salary demands likely rising in the next couple of years and corporate sponsorship possibly under threat, I'm sure they'd be keen to find a way to get access to that extra revenue.

Also the League might put some pressure on to move to the Aviva. While Thomond is a fantastic stadium, a Grand Final in a packed Aviva would be an occasion to equal the Premiership or Top14 finals and would surely help secure a good title sponsorship deal to replace Magners next year.

TheHighRoad

profitius wrote: »

They kept that profit themselves.

Really? Can you show me proof of that or are you just speculating based on absolutely no evidence?

CIARAN_BOYLE

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Really? Can you show me proof of that or are you just speculating based on absolutely no evidence?

my impression from various media things was the Leinster got profit from moving and IRFU charged rent which earned them some profit. IE there was a split.

WestCorkRebel

Of the two teams in the final, the team finishes highest in the league section gets home advantage in the final, therefore if Munster make the final they have home advantage, those are the competition rules

PhatPiggins

padser wrote: »

Been talking to a few mates about this recently. I'm convinced that the IRFU would move such a final to the Avia.

It's an extra 20k people and tickets would be in the €30 to €40 range I reckon (although I wouldn't rule out €50) which means it's an extra €400k to €600k

Personally I wouldn't see them passing up on that given that they moved all of Leinsters group games there, even though it damaged Leinsters chances of getting out of their group (seems irrelevant now, but certainly wasn't back then).

I assume it would fairly p!ss off Munster - but still can't see it not happening

The IRFU have nothing to do with choosing the venue its between Munster and the ML and they cant force it to be moved.

It's been highlight by Justin several times already

irishbucsfan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

The IRFU have nothing to do with choosing the venue its between Munster and the ML and they cant force it to be moved.

It's been highlight by Justin several times already

Well, as Justin would also say, Munster are just a branch of the IRFU. You can't differentiate between them on some issues and not on others. If it's the Munster Branch's decision, then it's the IRFU's decision. The two are one and the same.

roycon

why are leinster less likely to win in the aviva than in the rds

buck65

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Really? Can you show me proof of that or are you just speculating based on absolutely no evidence?

Did you not see the fur coats and bicycle?

Munster would be mad to move this from Thomond - we should make Ulster travel.

crisco10

Whatever about the argument over Munster losing home advantage. i think the show stopper will be the soccer games there on the same weekend as the grand final. No games on the saturday admittedly but can't imagine them jamming in a rugby game.

hardCopy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

my impression from various media things was the Leinster got profit from moving and IRFU charged rent which earned them some profit. IE there was a split.

If that's the case then Munster would surely make a tidy profit from playing in the Aviva

Aidric

Thomond Park. Period.

Teferi

Sure does it matter where Leinster play Munster? Leinster will whip them wherever it's played

From a purely financial viewpoint, the Aviva or Croker would make sense. Munster would be mad to give up home advantage though.

justsomebloke

if Munster had gotten in to the final of the amlin then I would say croker as there would of been enough interest in the game to play it there. However that is not the case and as the aviva is probably a no go, due to football, then of course the RDS should hold it;):D

CIARAN_BOYLE

a) Lets say Munster host the game in the Aviva
They announce new signing of a JDV and a marquee back row player (and the release of Mafi just to keep the number of NIQs right) on two year deals

b) Munster host the game in Thomond
They announce the signing of Stephen Donald on a two year contract and sign no new BR

Which of the above scenarios would you prefer to see if you are wearing your Munster hat.

Now I totally understand any Munster fan who wants to play in Thomond, but I'm not sure when it comes to financial consideration. The above scenarios are assuming a million and a bit extra goes into Munster coffers should they play in the Aviva.

BTW game will probably be in Thomond since I doubt the game could be held with the soccer commitments that week

Cookiemunster

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

a) Lets say Munster host the game in the Aviva
They announce new signing of a JDV and a marquee back row player (and the release of Mafi just to keep the number of NIQs right) on two year deals

b) Munster host the game in Thomond
They announce the signing of Stephen Donald on a two year contract and sign no new BR

Which of the above scenarios would you prefer to see if you are wearing your Munster hat.

Now I totally understand any Munster fan who wants to play in Thomond, but I'm not sure when it comes to financial consideration. The above scenarios are assuming a million and a bit extra goes into Munster coffers should they play in the Aviva.

The money doesn't go into Munsters coffers, it goes into the coffers of Celtic Rugby Ltd. This game is like a HEC semi, you can choose the venue but its run by celtic rugby and they then give some money to both teams and keep the rest.

ambid

WestCorkRebel wrote: »

Of the two teams in the final, the team finishes highest in the league section gets home advantage in the final, therefore if Munster make the final they have home advantage, those are the competition rules

Yeah but Munster are a branch of the IRFU so it is the IRFU who will have final say. It's the same scenario as with Hines leaving Leinster - he wanted to stay & Leinster wanted him to stay but the union made the decision. He's going to France.

It's the union, not Munster, who will decide I'm afraid.

If they think they can sell out the Aviva, and if they think they can squeeze in another match in the middle of a soccer tournament, I reckon the union would be interested in that.

However I hope it'll be Thomond. Munster deserve it.

WeeBushy

On the financial point, would it really be beneficial for Munster to give up home advantage and move it to the Aviva? How much would winning the Magners League be worth to Munster? Massive squad boost, fan boost, profile boost, prize money, bonuses from sponsors, local economic gain from Leinster fans travelling to Thomond etc etc.

I'm not saying they would definitely lose were it to be in the Aviva but it would be obviously harder. No idea what all the above would add up to, but its got to be at least what they would make in gate receipts at the Aviva, plus the other intangible benefits. Not worth the risk to make ~ €500k up front.

irishbucsfan

No way is the difference between Thomond Park and the palindrome anything close to 1 million.

WeeBushy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No way is the difference between Thomond Park and the palindrome anything close to 1 million.

Was that directed at me? If it was, I don't think I said anything about €1 million..

ambid

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No way is the difference between Thomond Park and the palindrome anything close to 1 million.

Well we're all speculating here I guess. However, assuming a full house, the attendance difference is roughly 51,000 - 26,000 = 25,000. If the average ticket price is €40, then 25,000 x €40 = €1,000,000.

I assume food and drink outlets pay rent per match, or a proportion of trunover per match, so add that in and the difference will be higher.

Anyway it's probably not worth arguing over speculation - unless one of us is an accountant for the union. Either way I'm sure we can all agree that having the match in the Aviva rather than Thomond would be significantly more profitable for the union, who will ultimately make the decision.

irishbucsfan

WeeBushy wrote: »

Was that directed at me? If it was, I don't think I said anything about €1 million..

No sorry it wasn't, it was someone earlier on.

buck65

Maybe the IMF will decide?

irishbucsfan

Musgrave Park imo

Deleted User

just posted this in another thread before I'd seen this one.

Reasons that Munster Rugby Branch might look to move to a bigger stadium.

The quote is in response to a claim that it is short sighted of me to say that the Munster Branch would consider €€€ ahead of some fans' preference.

Deleted User wrote: »

It is in its hole, you're comparing two completely different events, and for completely different reasons.

Firstly, the AIs happen every year, while a Munster Leinster Celtic League final won't happen very often.

Secondly, we had no problem filling Croke Park for the teams to play in the HEC, obviously a step above the ML, but still the same teams, fighting for a chance to win some silverware.

Thirdly, as we've seen with polls time and time again, the detractors will still go, they'll have a moan and a grumble, and then they'll realise that its worth it to go to the game, and they'll travel, and enjoy themselves.

I could continue...
Extra Revenue from one game = extra potential for signing a big NIQ
Huge benefits for the ML if they can get a sold out show in a national stadium.
Improves the advertising values of the ML, which in turns improves the Revenues earned by the ML, which in turn improves the revenues earned by the teams in future years.


Or they could ignore this, give in to the grumblers, and play it in a smaller venue.

I just think that the Munster Branch, probably comprised of sane people, would possibly weigh up a lot more reasons for staging a game in a different stadium other than "there's 4 lads on boards.ie who say they won't go, and that two of their friends can't go either".

CIARAN_BOYLE

Posted in another thread but more appropiate here

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

We always here about how big a deal it is to the Limerick community to have knockout game in the city.

Could Munster rugby tap into the bars and restaurants in Munster for extra sponsorship. I'm thinking something like on the Connacht Rugby website each player is sponsored by a local bar or restaurant or cafe or hotel.

If Munster matches are such a big deal to the local community I think it may be time to milk that if they don't want to move the big matches.

ShamoBuc

Teferi wrote: »

Sure does it matter where Leinster play Munster? Leinster will whip them wherever it's played

remind me how that worked out for ye the last time.....;)

Teferi

5/6. I'll take it. :P

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

just posted this in another thread before I'd seen this one.

Reasons that Munster Rugby Branch might look to move to a bigger stadium.

The quote is in response to a claim that it is short sighted of me to say that the Munster Branch would consider €€€ ahead of some fans' preference.

emmet the points you put across are valid but i dont think they tell the full situation.

limerick has been hit pretty hard by the recession and as far as i know the munster branch have kept the prices the same for next season or might have reduced them. certainly the knock out games held in limerick this season were not at knock out prices, more magners level i think. no company puts its prices down unless it has to.

when you say "the Munster Branch would consider €€€ ahead of some fans' preference" its alot more than some fans. the vast majority id say myself.

if munster move the match there is the potential for there to be more leinster fans there. if munster lose, which is a very strong possibility, it would be very very embarrasing for the munster team and branch.

Fully aware, I was simply pointing out the opposite side of the scéal.

Business is Business.

CatFromHue

business is business but you have to keep your customers happy.

Agreed, all I'm saying is that it's not an easy decision eitherway. Plenty of people on here saying "Thomond without a shadow of a doubt" haven't a fiddler's what's involved with making the decision.

If playing the game in the Aviva meant that Munster were able to sign Nonu at 12 for 3 seasons, and playing it at Thomond meant that they were able to stretch to afford an ageing Jauzion what would people say?

Analyse the business side too, not just the emotive side of the game. Munster can't operate without cash, they can't operate without fans either, it's a balancing act. Sometimes you've got to upset one side to embrace the other.

TheHighRoad

In fairness Munster have the most ridiculous merchandising going on. Munster wine (horrible!!), Munster aftershave, Munster glasses etc.

donfers

table-toppers by a massive 14 points deserve home field advantage in the final (there shouldn't even be a knock-out competition, Leinster should have won it last year and Munster this year but that's another debate)

sporting integrity should trump an extra few bob in finances and the Munster fans should get to see their table-topping team contest the final in Thomond Park, simple as that, when all the counter-arguments are based around speculative finanacial arguments you would hope the right decision will fall on the side of sporting integrity i.e. the very least the winners of the league round by a huge margin deserve is home advantage in the final, but we'll see, I know there will be an outcry in Munster if events conspire against them and ask any fan if they want the best chance to win a competition they are in or the possibility of perhaps getting a few extra bob (nobody knows how much) for a signing next year who doesn't guarantee anything then they'll chose the (well-earned) advantage in the sporting contest over the speculative advantage to the balance sheet every time

It should go to thomond park

will it? I think it probably will, it's the right decision to make from a sporting point of view and I hope the sense of fairness outweighs the moneygrabbing zeal of the suits on this occassion

Blut2

If the Aviva is unavailable due to the soccer tournament is Croke Park a runner for it at all? If the extra 25k seats in the Aviva would give an extra €1mill (using the rough figures in this thread) the extra 55k in Croker would give a €2.2mill bonus presumably. Minus whatever pound of flesh the GAA would get of course...

CIARAN_BOYLE

Blut2 wrote: »

If the Aviva is unavailable due to the soccer tournament is Croke Park a runner for it at all? If the extra 25k seats in the Aviva would give an extra €1mill (using the rough figures in this thread) the extra 55k in Croker would give a €2.2mill bonus presumably. Minus whatever pound of flesh the GAA would get of course...

When internationals were held in Croke Park the GAA charged 3 million in rent so I reckon its a non runner.

Although I'm sure Munster rugby may consider ringing up GAA headquarters to ask how much the rent would be.

pajunior

I want it to be held in Thomond simply because if Leinster win at the Aviva/Croker, Munster fans will never accept it and always cite the stadium as a reason. That win in Thomond last year is still one of my sweetest memories as a Leinster fan.

ormond lad

I want it played in thomond because we deserve it for finishing 1st in the league section.
pajunior most munster fans are complaining about the game potentially moving to dublin because it may stop them from attending due to cost of travelling up., staying the night etc and how munster would be outnumbered by leinster fans in a "home" final for munster

pajunior if the final was moved to the aviva both teams preformed on the day and leinster won only the bitterest of munster fans would say the loss was because the game was on in dubland.

pajunior

ormond lad wrote: »

I want it played in thomond because we deserve it for finishing 1st in the league section.
pajunior most munster fans are complaining about the game potentially moving to dublin because it may stop them from attending due to cost of travelling up., staying the night etc and how munster would be outnumbered by leinster fans in a "home" final for munster

pajunior if the final was moved to the aviva both teams preformed on the day and leinster won only the bitterest of munster fans would say the loss was because the game was on in dubland.

Ah sure I was only poking fun.

If I must be serious then I do agree that Munster's fans and players deserve to be allowed the chance to win silverware in their home stadium after a really emphatic season of dominance.
I'm guessing because of the Italian teams Munster have set a record points tally but it can't be far off even if you take away those four games.

CatFromHue

ormond lad wrote: »

pajunior if the final was moved to the aviva both teams preformed on the day and leinster won only the bitterest of munster fans would say the loss was because the game was on in dubland.

munster fans with a sense of bitterness....never

isnt that what anthony foley was powered on!

ShamoBuc

Hopefully both teams get there and munster win in Thomond.
Or Munster win somewhere else, I'm not really fussy where.

Marcusm

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Yes it will be moved there (if it happens). People will complain that this is unfair on Munster whilst failing to point out that Leinster had to move their home game this year against Munster from the RDS to Aviva (where they were as familar as Munster at the time) in order to receive extra profit for the IRFU. Its more unfair now but considering that the the Magners Final is a neutral event where ticket allocations will be divided evenly and the stadium will not be furnished with either team's flags, banners etc. then does it really matter if Leinster players have played there 9 times when Munster players have played there 5 times this year? Main problem I can see is it would be a very unfair to expect Munster supporters to fork out travelling costs.

Seems to be a bit of a presumption that all Leinster supporters are from Dubin?

Ospreys looking forward to hosting Ulster I hear

overshoot

Deleted User wrote: »

Ospreys looking forward to hosting Ulster I hear

ulster will be hosting the ospreys seen as they were third:D

good chance to show tommy bowe what hes missing out on now!

JustinDee

Its 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 isn't it? That would mean Munster host Ospreys and Leinster host Ulster.

durkadurka

am I missing something?