Should he be put to sleep because he possibly has dementia?

Bubs99

My friend just rang me crying her eyes out because the vet recommended they put their 9 year old male bichon frise to sleep.

The thing is he is actually a very healthy dog, physically and is the Daddy to many litters in his life time. He does have epilepsy but it is not severe enough for daily medication.

The problem is, about two months ago, he began howling every night which he never did before. They were told to put a shock collar on him at night which they have but in the past few weeks, he has gradually become more snappy and has also bitten a close family member which was never him before. He was always a loving, funny dog.

I disagree with shock collars but he's not my dog so I had no say and I have also thought that maybe the aggression is from the shock collar but they wouldn't believe me over a vet.

They rang the vet after the bite and the vet said it must be dementia and putting him to sleep is the best option and that not many will take on a snappy dog.

I have heard different though. I have heard that some people out there specifically foster/adopt snappy dogs.

What should be done? And advice appreciated.

ISDW

They will be very, very lucky to find anyone willing to take on an epileptic 9 year old dog that has bitten - no matter what the reason.

I am so, so saddened though that this dog has been used as a stud dog on numerous occasions, he has epilepsy and that didn't stop them? So now he has passed that condition on to countless puppies, who, if bred from, will pass that on to more?

lrushe

I would have thought that a 9 year old small breed dog would be too young for dementia. Have they thought about getting a second opinion from a different vet and also to consult a dog behaviourist?

Bubs99

I know this family most of my life and I am all for neutereing. Everytime their female got pregnant, I begged them to neuter both or one of them at least but they just went ahead.

She also has a male cat and wont get him neutered either and there is LOADS of feral cats around that area. She is convinced that after she got her last male cat done, he left home and became wild, she blames the neutering for that (but I blame the fact she left him there for several days alone over christmas last year in minus 5 degree weather).

Hes still such a lovely dog, id hate him to have to be put to sleep.

ppink

That is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard.

Who in their right mind puts a shock collar on an animal for that.....especially with epilepsy:eek:. i understand your friends are doing as the vet told them but I think that vet is very wrong to suggest such a thing.

On that basis I would be advising them to get a second opinion.

Did they get a behaviourist ( a good one!) to look at the poor dog?

Poor poor doggy:(

Bubs99

Ive contacted several friends of mine for advice also, both professional dog trainers and behaviour specialists.

I did a veterinary assistant course last year and have given as much advice as I can to them about all but they only listen to THAT vet.

Theres a place in Galway that take on bad temperament staffies and tame them, I was hoping somebody out there might know of anybody.

ISDW

Bubs99 wrote: »

Ive contacted several friends of mine for advice also, both professional dog trainers and behaviour specialists.

I did a veterinary assistant course last year and have given as much advice as I can to them about all but they only listen to THAT vet.

Theres a place in Galway that take on bad temperament staffies and tame them, I was hoping somebody out there might know of anybody.

Sorry, I'm sure EGAR will be on herself and discuss that particular sentence, but no, there isn't a place in Galway that take on bad temperament staffies and tame them. There is a rescue organisation that specialises in bull breeds.

All of the rescue centres around the country are full to breaking, and unfortunately the harsh realities are that I really don't think you will find one to take on a 9 year old dog that has bitten. It is just awful that these friends of yours have made money from this dog for so long, selling pups, it has given them its life and this is how they now want to treat it. People just continually disappoint me.

Groom!

I cannot believe that anyone would use a shock collar on a sick animal.

This sounds harsh but he would be better off put to sleep than live his life out with a bloody shock collar on him.

Bubs 99 you sound like a nice, responsible dog/cat/animal owner. Can you persuade them to do as above posters suggest and get a second opinion/behaviourist to see him. If you contacted your friends who are behaviourists, what did they say/advise? Did they meet the dog?

The poor poor dog. I know you say they love him, but they need to get to the bottom of his medical issues rather than second guess.

Bubs99

Im just waiting on replies from my dog training friends, hopefully they reply very soon so I can advise the others.

I am almost certain they wont pay for one due to money shortage and Ill follow all your advice and get them to get a second opinion.

Hes such a sweety, id hate to see him have to be put to sleep.
I dont know what made him start to howl. Hes kept out the back garden with their own run with a female bichon and they have their own big heated shed and duvets.

Its a no win situation i think. Fingers crossed.

Shazanne

Bubs - this is going to seem like a very unfair question and I dont expect you to answer it on here, but you seem to know and care for this pook little guy - is there any chance you could take him? I know it's probably far from simple to do this but they are your friends and they might just trust you with him, even just to see how it goes.
Please, please beg them to stop using that shock collar - it's probably driving the poor little guy crazy. It's such an awful situation:(

lorebringer

I am both disturbed and disgusted by your post, some people never cease to amaze me. Your friend has bred from a dog that has a congenital illness, will not neuter (even though she is fully aware the dog has this illness) and mistreats the dog when he is sick. Other than sheer ignorance, I cannot think of how they could justify their actions.

The vet sounds about as clued in as the owners - dogs get snappy when they are sick or unwell (hell, people do to!) and by adding fuel to the fire, in the form of a shock collar, it was an unfortunate moment waiting to happen - and the dog is blamed for it. A second opinion is really needed in this situation, please try to convince your friend to do so - if she loves her dog as much as she claims, she should be willing to try anything to keep him with her. Major behavioural change over a short period of time needs to be looked into as it can indicate something seriously wrong (and potentially treatable) with the dog. I find it very sad that they may not be pay to have a second opinion, I know money is tight for a lot of people but sometimes pets cost more than expected and adequate treatment needs to be paid for.

I highly doubt you will find a rescue to take an older dog with a bite history and behavioural problems. If you find a rescue that will take him, he will be very difficult to re home and it will be out of your friends control as to where he goes (that is, he could end up in kennels for a prolonged period of time etc.). A pound will take him, but he could be put to sleep after 24 hours (being a surrender) and with the number of dogs stuffed into pounds at the moment, this is quite a likely fate for a difficult dog.

Good luck in trying to sort this out.

Bubs99

They told me yesterday that they've only been using the collar on and off for a week but yes, I know and all you do too Im sure that that can still obviously frustrate and upset a dog. I told them...how would we feel if we had a shock collar on us?!

They insist on not going for a second opinion due to financial difficulties so are now looking for someone to take him. They had another bichon before, a female who attacked their new puppy bichon (no relation to the attacking one) and she killed the puppy. The puppy was only about 3 months old and she attacked her. It was awful. They found a home for her though somehow.

And yes, I would take the male 9 year old one, only Im not allowed have pets where I rent. They're not putting him in a pound, thats for sure so I know it'll be difficult but fingers crossed someone will take him and give him one on one love. He has always had other dogs in the garden with him. I think he deserves just love for himself.

And I told them not to use the shock collar ever again on any dog. I also pray that they dont get any more dogs. (they currently have 3 including him).

ppink

Bubs I am sorry but your friend sounds like an inconsiderate muppet. Really unfair to do that to the poor dog, more unfair not to try to sort it and now again to give someone else a problem that really should have a proper diagnosis.
I have to say I would struggle to be "friends" with anyone who could do such things but if i was I would inadvertently let that shock collar fall under the wheel of my car when visiting her:p
how come she can well afford a piece of torture equipement but not a €20 trip to the vet I wonder.

Burkatron

ppink wrote: »

Bubs I am sorry but your friend sounds like an inconsiderate muppet. Really unfair to do that to the poor dog, more unfair not to try to sort it and now again to give someone else a problem that really should have a proper diagnosis.
I have to say I would struggle to be "friends" with anyone who could do such things but if i was I would inadvertently let that shock collar fall under the wheel of my car when visiting her:p
how come she can well afford a piece of torture equipement but not a €20 trip to the vet I wonder.

Ah this is so frustrating to read. Your friends do not have the best intentions of the dog no matter what they say. A shock collar? Really? Did they actually go to a vet? I don't believe that for a minute. Its disturbing that a vet would first of all recommend a shock collar & secondly diagnose dementia after his first recommendation. If this "vet" really exists he should be reported, named & shamed so no one who cares about their dog makes the mistake in going to this moron! Also, they have 3 dogs but no pet insureance? WTF?

EGAR

As ISDW said, I run a Bull Breed rescue. I have, however, tamed a good few bad tempered farmers around here but I don't know if that counts ?

9 years is VERY young for a small breed to develop Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. I would rule out several other conditions first such as hypothyroidism, diabetes and brain tumours. There is no test for CCD, the diagnosis is simply based on the observation of the owners and the IQ of the vet treating the animal.

Some vets never cease to amaze me, I currently have a Lab bitch in re-homing who was to be put down, on advice of a vet. Her crime: she chased a chicken.

My RW x GSD bitch Sally developed OCC at the grand age of 14 and often woke up at night and became restless and howled. A DAP difuser plugged in at night took care of that.