newcomer to farming, seeking help/advice

docmartin

Hi all, A few years ago i inherited a farm from an uncle and also inherited his sheep flock, farm was in a poor enough state, all land over grown with rushes, poorly drained, badly fenced, no hadling facilites or outbuildings.

I joined REPS and put up a whole new boundary fence, replaced the stock with fresher younger ewes, fenced off the best of the grazing ground for use as paddocks,
now out of reps so i've sprayed a lot of the overgrown rush filled ground and will be getting the whole place drained, fertilised my paddocks using 10-10-20.
I have a 12ft x 20ft pen on the farm but no other handling facilites or outbuildings.
the advice i'm looking for is how best to utilise the grass on the farm, have been reading up about applying lime and topping and such but i have no idea what time of year to do these things.
also interested in hearing your opinions on budget handling facilities suitable for sheep and whether or not to put up a small shed for winter use.

thanks all for your time,
Martin

upgrade

kind of in the same boat myself,have you many ewes? I'm looking into building a slatted house for the ewes at the min,don't know if its worth the cost though

Username John

Hello Doc,

I am similar to yerself - but about 2 years behind you. I have a few sheep, and am still in REPS.

I am afraid I would be lacking in knowledge as well, so not the best man to giving any sorta advice. But I can tell you what I am doing myself to get the ball rolling.
There are many more on here that know a lot more than me...

Do you have soil test results? Maybe you have from REPS?
I got one done at the start of REPS, and the Ph was low, it should be around 6.5.
As far as I know, lime can be applied to grass at any time. But be careful putting it on silage ground, if there is any trace of it on the grass when cut for silage, it will affect fermentation.

You say you will be getting the place drained. I assume you will be reseeding after this? If so - I would apply the lime then. I am trying to reseed a bit every year, putting on lime (2t / acre) after its ploughed. I think I read somewhere that 2t / acre is as much as you would want to put out at any one time, so if you need more than this, best to split it.

Topping - dont have a topper. But - if you have sheep and are setting up paddocks, would you really need a topper?
My plan is to put in paddocks (eventually), have nice fresh grass for sheep & lambs, and follow with hoggets to graze it down. Any extra grass I have will try to sell for silage. But thats easier to say, than do I feel...
Grass management is something I have yet to master...

Fertiliser - dont put out much. As part of reseeding, putting in clover. Long term plan is to only put out some in Spring, maybe...

As for putting up a shed - cant argue that they arent handy, put up a small one myself last year. But the Q is do you need it?

Lots more Q around how many sheep you have, breed, when you lamb, if you want to change system, etc will affect a lot of the answers above re shed & fertilser, etc.

@Upgrade
How many ewes do you have? There was a nice slatted house in the journal a few weeks back. But it looks an expensive job.

Jaysus, that was a bit longer than I intended...

upgrade

Hi John, i would need to be able to house about 80 ewes,spring lambing.
There are some very expensive options for slatted housing,one big problem I have come across is that you can't give baled silage to sheep on slats it has to be chopped pit silage otherwise they pull it in and block the slats.
The other issue is having to lift the slats to scrape the shed out annually,starw beeding is too expensive in my case,looks like I'm going to have to continue to outwinter them,which is sore on the ground.
I am looking still for the best solution,
@ Doc I have my place layed out in paddocks and its great having fresh grass to move the sheep onto every week to 10 days depending on growth,one issue I have come across is the spread of thistles which I hate and must try and spray shortly,hopefully I'll be able to get rid of them.

Username John

upgrade wrote: »

Hi John, i would need to be able to house about 80 ewes,spring lambing.
There are some very expensive options for slatted housing,one big problem I have come across is that you can't give baled silage to sheep on slats it has to be chopped pit silage otherwise they pull it in and block the slats.
The other issue is having to lift the slats to scrape the shed out annually,starw beeding is too expensive in my case,looks like I'm going to have to continue to outwinter them,which is sore on the ground.
I am looking still for the best solution,
@ Doc I have my place layed out in paddocks and its great having fresh grass to move the sheep onto every week to 10 days depending on growth,one issue I have come across is the spread of thistles which I hate and must try and spray shortly,hopefully I'll be able to get rid of them.

Interesting...

I'll have you persecuted now with questions

- what size paddocks do you use, and how long do 80 sheep + lambs last on them?
- How much ground would you need for 80 sheep, when you're outwintering. Not including hay / silage (I dont cut either, buy in hay)

Thistles, I am all too familiar with em. I cut one field last year, in August time, and I noticed that they didnt come back half as bad this year... not sure why...
have one v bad field, but I think I will plough it next year, and just mow this year to keep em down...
Is there a clover friendly spray for thistles?

upgrade

Username John wrote: »

Interesting...

I'll have you persecuted now with questions

- what size paddocks do you use, and how long do 80 sheep + lambs last on them?
- How much ground would you need for 80 sheep, when you're outwintering. Not including hay / silage (I dont cut either, buy in hay)

Thistles, I am all too familiar with em. I cut one field last year, in August time, and I noticed that they didnt come back half as bad this year... not sure why...
have one v bad field, but I think I will plough it next year, and just mow this year to keep em down...
Is there a clover friendly spray for thistles?

I don't feed them that much hay/silage except in very bad weather,ideally I'd love to be able to house them,the baled silage issue has set me back though.
I use the whole farm for outwintering, sometimes you get a small bit of growth even in dec/jan which is surprising.

the paddocks last around a week to ten days,now as the lambs are growing and grazing more themselves it works out good as grass growth increases this time of year.
I intend using MCPA on the thistles,it also kills rushes and other common weeds,it has worked great in the past on rushes.I hadn't thought about its affect on the clover,must look into that.
How many ewes do you keep yourself?

Username John

upgrade wrote: »

I don't feed them that much hay/silage except in very bad weather,ideally I'd love to be able to house them,the baled silage issue has set me back though.
I use the whole farm for outwintering, sometimes you get a small bit of growth even in dec/jan which is surprising.

the paddocks last around a week to ten days,now as the lambs are growing and grazing more themselves it works out good as grass growth increases this time of year.
I intend using MCPA on the thistles,it also kills rushes and other common weeds,it has worked great in the past on rushes.I hadn't thought about its affect on the clover,must look into that.
How many ewes do you keep yourself?

How many - too many most days, and not half enough on mart days
Around 40 lambed this year, but have a few more replacements coming on this year...

Hmm, you outwinter on the whole place? I would have though you would need to be closing ground for the sheep & lambs from Oct / Nov on?

Whats the average size of your paddocks? I am trying to put the place into paddocks, but its awkward and expensive, so want to try to get it right first time
Do you use that electric netting? Thinking of getting some to try it myself next year...

rancher

Username John wrote: »

Do you use that electric netting? Thinking of getting some to try it myself next year...

I use the netting, great for splitting paddocks or strip grazing through the winter, my ewes are in only eight weeks yet all the land gets abreak of 12 weeks at least, ewes are fed straw and meals, drier bed less feet problems and easier on me . just some ideas for you

Username John

rancher wrote: »

I use the netting, great for splitting paddocks or strip grazing through the winter, my ewes are in only eight weeks yet all the land gets abreak of 12 weeks at least, ewes are fed straw and meals, drier bed less feet problems and easier on me . just some ideas for you

Do you use the netting with a mains or battery fencer? Would suit me better to use battery, but was told you'd need mains for them?

What do you mean by "my ewes are in only eight weeks" ?

Interesting that you feed straw? Just straw and meals - no hay or silage?

rancher

Takes a good fencer alright, I use a pel battery/mains electric fencer worked on an old tractor battery charged by a solar panel, ewes go into the shed six weeks before lambing, they are fed meal then and bedded with barley straw, 1lb ewe ration plus straw is the same as being fed silage, if its recommended to feed 2lbs ration with silage per day for the last two weeks before lambing, I feed 3 lbs with straw, they would have to get that in three feeds, 1lb is enough to give a ewe at a time.
I close up one third of my farm on first sept, so there's a good bank of grass on it by early dec when i put the ewes on it and strip graze it,usually feeds them to end jan

docmartin

hi upgrade and john, thanks for the repliew, hadnt checked this in a while as nobody had replied so thanks for your time.

i'm farming about 30-35 ewes lambing late march/early april.

John i dont have soil test results, is there any simple tests i can conduct myself to see the state of the soil, I had also considered ploughing and reseeding but i know absolutely nothing about this practice so as yet i havent bothered. but would like to look into this as the groung needs some radical work.

as yet my paddock system only comprises of 2x 1acre paddocks but if i coild salvage some more ground i'd definitly be fencing this off, expensive but great peace of mind.

john you mention lime can be applied at any time on ground, i might try this on my boggish ground after draining, is this wise? hoping it might save me going down the road of ploughing and reseeding.

Thanks lads for your time

docmartin

also if there is any worthwhile soil testing kits you people can point me towards it would be great, dont want to waste my money on something rubbish, or else point me in the diredtion of someone who calls out and takes samples and analyses them,
as always, thanks for your time
doc

Username John

docmartin wrote: »

john you mention lime can be applied at any time on ground, i might try this on my boggish ground after draining, is this wise? hoping it might save me going down the road of ploughing and reseeding.

Hello Doc,

I'd have a chat with someone more knowledgeable than myself about it
Lime on boggy ground - I now recell someone on here saying it can make it even more soft? But that could be when boggy ground is ploughed... Not sure... Might want to check it out...

Soil testing is done by Teagasc, or by another crowd (who are half the price I thnk) See link below
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70717984&postcount=11

docmartin wrote: »

I had also considered ploughing and reseeding but i know absolutely nothing about this practice so as yet i havent bothered. but would like to look into this as the groung needs some radical work.

Dont know much about it myself, did some last year. Expensive job - and be more expensive this year. I would guess between all machinery work + fertilser + seed it'll be 200 / acre or more. Plus maybe you have to fence it then at around 3euro / metre...
I am doing it on good fields, that I know silage can be cut off... Plan being to have spring grass for the sheep & lambs, and then sell silage off it in summer. Not sure if this is the best plan or not...

Some would argue that you should setup paddocks first, use the grass you have to best effect first, before you go reseeding...

To be honest - you might want to get someone in to look at the farm & setup and what you want to get from it.
Not trying to say you wont get good advice here - but you cant beat walking a place and seeing whats there, to advise what the best thing to do is... Maybe a neighbour could give you good advice to start - as they would know the ground and tell you what they have found re managing grass & reseeding and the likes...

Not sure this post helped much...

docmartin

Cheers john, probably going to go down the road of draining the boggy ground until i see, a neighbour has told me it used to be very good ground until my uncle got too old to maintain the drains, so my plan is to try to take it back an acre at a time and as funds allow.
the soil test would probably be a smart investment.
thanks for your help

Doc