motorhome speed limit

cipro 55

just got a ticket for doing 92k in a 100k zone in my motorhome.
any of you guys know what the limit is in a motorhome?

Des32

What size is your motorhome, is it over 3500kg. I don't know what the regulations are regarding motorhomes but the new private speed camera vans are getting buses and lorries going over 80 km in 100 km zones.
This is the law but it was seldom enforced by the gardai.

Life is getting very tough in this country. screw you every way they can. Suppose there will be water meters on motorhomes next.

cipro 55

No, It's just over 3000kg.

Des32

Certain vehicles in Ireland (specifically vehicles that are intended or adapted for the carriage of people, vehicles greater than a certain weight and vehicles that are drawing trailers) are subject to different speed limits than those outlined above.

• Single and double deck buses and coaches (carrying standing passengers) - 65 km/h
• Single and double deck buses and coaches (with accommodation for more than 8 passengers but does not carry standing passengers)
  - Motorways and dual carriageways - 100 km/h
  - Other roads - 80 km/h
• Towing Vehicles - 80 km/h
• Trucks (with a design gross weight of more than 3,500kg) - 80 km/h

Got this of the Dept of transport web site

Neonjack

Yep. If you're under 3500 kgs, then normal limits apply. I'd appeal the ticket if I were you.

tom22413

cipro 55 wrote: »

just got a ticket for doing 92k in a 100k zone in my motorhome.
any of you guys know what the limit is in a motorhome?

This link might give you a bit of hope. check post for the 13th March, update us how you get on. http://www.campsitereview.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=5&TopicID=2157&PagePosition=1&get=last#7210

niloc1951

You can't beat the ould STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS for the real facts, so here goes.

ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS - CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005.S.I. No. 9 of 2005 . says:-

The ordinary speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour is prescribed for—
(a) a single decked mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adopted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has passenger accommodation for more than 8 persons,
(b) a mechanically propelled vehicle neither intended nor adapted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has a design gross vehicle weight in excess of 3,500 kilograms, and
(c) a combination of a mechanically propelled vehicle drawing another vehicle.

The S.I. goes on to explain:-
a speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies to a vehicle that accommodates more than 8 passengers, excluding the driver (e.g. bus/coach/minibus), to a goods vehicle that has a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms and to any vehicle towing a trailer, caravan, horsebox, etc,

So,
According to (b) the 80Kmph limit does not apply to 'motor caravan' unless it has more than eight passenger seats, which as far as I know no such thing exists, therefore, on first reading it looks like you should not have been liable to prosecution under the above Act.

I will investigate deeper if you will post the Act quoted on 'ticket'.

Also, how is the vehicle described on the RF101 (log book) at (j) EU Vehicle Category, it should be M. If it is incorrectly described, an many are, as an N category which is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and (f.1) GVW is over 3,500 Kg this could be the root of the problem.

As the new safety cameras appear to be working in conjunction with details from the database in Shannon (or wherever) it is important that ALL owners of motor caravans have the correct EU vehicle category on their RF101 (log book), correct D.3 (body type) and J.2 (motor tax class) are probably not relevant when it comes to speed limits.

BEWARE however that this is Ireland, the law is more straightforward and more common sense in the rest of Europe, any/all vehicles over 3,500kg GVW are in the same category of speed limits, there is no distinction between goods and passenger. However on motorways in some countries motor caravans and coaches are allowed a higher speed.

cipro 55

tom22413 wrote: »

This link might give you a bit of hope. check post for the 13th March, update us how you get on. http://www.campsitereview.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=5&TopicID=2157&PagePosition=1&get=last#7210

Ok rang the office in Thurles to day the lady there said.

If your under 3500kg send in the proof, If your over 3500kg your goosed.
I'll keep you posted.

tom22413

cipro 55 wrote: »

Ok rang the office in Thurles to day the lady there said.

If your under 3500kg send in the proof, If your over 3500kg your goosed.
I'll keep you posted.

The Best of luck with that.

niloc1951

cipro 55 wrote: »

Ok rang the office in Thurles to day the lady there said.
If your under 3500kg send in the proof, If your over 3500kg your goosed.
I'll keep you posted.

I raised a few questions on this issue in my earlier post, answers to which should help clarify the issue with reference to the actual regulations as signed into law.

But in response to the above quote.
Your motor caravan is not a "vehicle that accommodates more than 8 passengers, excluding the driver (e.g. bus/coach/minibus), to a goods vehicle that has a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms, so you shouldn't be goosed.
And, the GVW is a matter of record on the database of registered vehicles at the Department of Transport, Shannon so it's not up to you to prove, its up to 'them' to check.

This issue has a fierce deja vu about it, it looks like officialdom is tripping up again on legislation which was drafted forgetting about motor caravans..............think RSA two years ago and the botched attempt to bring roadworthiness testing of motor caravans into operation.

As it stands at the moment 'motor caravans' are clearly not included in the legislation underpinning the speed limits for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW, so, the general speed limits for 'cars' is all that can apply.

It would be a great help if we knew the precise 'Act' under which the tickets are being issued to wrap this issue up for sure.

Buford T Justice

niloc1951 wrote: »

I raised a few questions on this issue in my earlier post, answers to which should help clarify the issue with reference to the actual regulations as signed into law.

But in response to the above quote.
Your motor caravan is not a "vehicle that accommodates more than 8 passengers, excluding the driver (e.g. bus/coach/minibus), to a goods vehicle that has a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms, so you shouldn't be goosed.
And, the GVW is a matter of record on the database of registered vehicles at the Department of Transport, Shannon so it's not up to you to prove, its up to 'them' to check.

This issue has a fierce deja vu about it, it looks like officialdom is tripping up again on legislation which was drafted forgetting about motor caravans..............think RSA two years ago and the botched attempt to bring roadworthiness testing of motor caravans into operation.

As it stands at the moment 'motor caravans' are clearly not included in the legislation underpinning the speed limits for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW, so, the general speed limits for 'cars' is all that can apply.

It would be a great help if we knew the precise 'Act' under which the tickets are being issued to wrap this issue up for sure.

In the same way that MotorHomes are currently required to have a DOE completed every year...... or are they....

cipro 55

niloc1951 wrote: »

I raised a few questions on this issue in my earlier post, answers to which should help clarify the issue with reference to the actual regulations as signed into law.

But in response to the above quote.
Your motor caravan is not a "vehicle that accommodates more than 8 passengers, excluding the driver (e.g. bus/coach/minibus), to a goods vehicle that has a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms, so you shouldn't be goosed.
And, the GVW is a matter of record on the database of registered vehicles at the Department of Transport, Shannon so it's not up to you to prove, its up to 'them' to check.

This issue has a fierce deja vu about it, it looks like officialdom is tripping up again on legislation which was drafted forgetting about motor caravans..............think RSA two years ago and the botched attempt to bring roadworthiness testing of motor caravans into operation.

As it stands at the moment 'motor caravans' are clearly not included in the legislation underpinning the speed limits for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW, so, the general speed limits for 'cars' is all that can apply.

It would be a great help if we knew the precise 'Act' under which the tickets are being issued to wrap this issue up for sure.

Niloc, hope this is what you want.



Contrary to Section 47 (as inserted by section 11 Road Traffic Act 2004) of the Road Traffic act 1961.

Buford T Justice

From the Statue Book

11.—The following section is substituted for section 47 of the Principal Act:

“47.—(1) A person shall not drive a mechanically propelled vehicle at a speed exceeding the speed limit—

(a) that applies in respect of that vehicle, or

(b) that applies to the road on which the vehicle is being driven where that speed limit is lower than that applying to that vehicle.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

(3) In this section “speed limit” means a limit which is—

(a) an ordinary speed limit,

(b) the built-up area speed limit,

(c) the regional and local roads speed limit,

(d) the national roads speed limit,

(e) the motorway speed limit,

(f) a special speed limit, or

(g) a road works speed limit.”.

So it depends on the speed limit that applies to the vehicle, and if its under 3500KG, then its the regular speed limit, which you should appeal, imo

niloc1951

On the assumption that the 'ticket' was issued when the 'ordinary speed limit' was not being exceeded it needs to be proved that the vehicle was subject to 'Ordinary Speed Limits - Certain Vehicles' as defined in ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS - CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005. S.I. No. 9 of 2005.

So, here goes.
ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS — CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005 defines quite clearly those vehicles subject to its provisions:-
The ordinary speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour is prescribed for—
(a) a single decked mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adopted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has passenger accommodation for more than 8 persons,
(b) a mechanically propelled vehicle neither intended nor adapted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has a design gross vehicle weight in excess of 3,500 kilograms, (posters note: there is a bit of 'double negative' speak here, if it doesn't mean a passenger vehicle then it can only mean a category N vehicle, a vehicle for the carriage of goods) and
(c) a combination of a mechanically propelled vehicle drawing another vehicle.

A 'motor caravan' is not prescribed in either of the above three types of vehicle. Therefore, a motor caravan is not subject to the provisions of the above Regulations.

In summery,
Section 47 (as inserted by section 11 Road Traffic Act 2004) of the Road Traffic act 1961 to put it simply, is legislation which enables prosecution for speeding offences including driving in excess of a speed 'that applies in respect of that vehicle'.

To find, for example, which vehicles are subject to a maximum speed limit of 80kmph reference needs to be made to the ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS - CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005

Having studied the above it is apparent that if one is crazy enough one can drive a motor caravan, of any weight, at 'car' speeds here in the good ould RoI, but don't try it 'out foreign' where quite sensibly those over 3.5t have restrictions.

What a counrty :o:o:o

Linoge

cipro 55 wrote: »

Ok rang the office in Thurles to day the lady there said.

If your under 3500kg send in the proof, If your over 3500kg your goosed.
I'll keep you posted.

Thats outrageous. Guilty until proven innocent?? Why dont they prove that you are over 3,500kg :mad:

niloc1951

Linoge wrote: »

Thats outrageous. Guilty until proven innocent?? Why dont they prove that you are over 3,500kg :mad:

Over or under 3.5t doesn't matter, according to the SI, motor caravans are not subject to the special 80Kmph limit.

It is really worth having a google for ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS — CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005 and spending a few minutes reading S.I. No. 9/2005 in full.

cipro 55

Linoge wrote: »

Thats outrageous. Guilty until proven innocent?? Why dont they prove that you are over 3,500kg :mad:

I doubt i'll be the last person to come on here with this story.:(

irishrver

Just got my RF 101 registration certificate back from the dept of transport shannon it has been changed from from n1 commercial to m motorhome as it should have been since first registration in 2005 the cork tax office were slightly unwilling to do it at first. it is over 3500kg so I have to wait and see if it helps with the gosafe vans We never had a problem with the Garda speed traps at 96/98 km/hr over the years

cipro 55

Speeding fine dropped,

Thanks for all the help everyone.:):):):)

Buford T Justice

cipro 55 wrote: »

Speeding fine dropped,

Thanks for all the help everyone.:):):):)

Fill us in....

cipro 55

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Fill us in....

Ok i got a letter from the Fixed Charge Office this morning.



Query Accepted

Re Fixed Charge Notice

A decision has been taken that you have no obligations in respect of the notice and no further action is required on your part.:):):):)

tom22413

cipro 55 wrote: »

Speeding fine dropped,

Thanks for all the help everyone.:):):):)

Glad it turned out well for you.

But this will turn up again, Until someone in the Department of transport in Shannon wakes up and change the RF 101 registration certificate class to what it should be. Why should we have to do their work for them.:(:(

niloc1951 wrote: »

You can't beat the ould STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS for the real facts, so here goes.

ROAD TRAFFIC (ORDINARY SPEED LIMITS - CERTAIN VEHICLES) REGULATIONS 2005.S.I. No. 9 of 2005 . says:-

The ordinary speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour is prescribed for—
(a) a single decked mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adopted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has passenger accommodation for more than 8 persons,
(b) a mechanically propelled vehicle neither intended nor adapted primarily for the carriage of passengers which has a design gross vehicle weight in excess of 3,500 kilograms, and
(c) a combination of a mechanically propelled vehicle drawing another vehicle.

The S.I. goes on to explain:-
a speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies to a vehicle that accommodates more than 8 passengers, excluding the driver (e.g. bus/coach/minibus), to a goods vehicle that has a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms and to any vehicle towing a trailer, caravan, horsebox, etc,

So,
According to (b) the 80Kmph limit does not apply to 'motor caravan' unless it has more than eight passenger seats, which as far as I know no such thing exists, therefore, on first reading it looks like you should not have been liable to prosecution under the above Act.

I will investigate deeper if you will post the Act quoted on 'ticket'.

Also, how is the vehicle described on the RF101 (log book) at (j) EU Vehicle Category, it should be M. If it is incorrectly described, an many are, as an N category which is a vehicle designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and (f.1) GVW is over 3,500 Kg this could be the root of the problem.

As the new safety cameras appear to be working in conjunction with details from the database in Shannon (or wherever) it is important that ALL owners of motor caravans have the correct EU vehicle category on their RF101 (log book), correct D.3 (body type) and J.2 (motor tax class) are probably not relevant when it comes to speed limits.

BEWARE however that this is Ireland, the law is more straightforward and more common sense in the rest of Europe, any/all vehicles over 3,500kg GVW are in the same category of speed limits, there is no distinction between goods and passenger. However on motorways in some countries motor caravans and coaches are allowed a higher speed.

niloc1951
Thanks for digging out all the info on the STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS. I am still trying to get my head around it all. great work cheers thanks again.:):)