New Roman Missal

popebenny16

Can anyone help me out here, looking to see what changes, if any, the new missal will cause to the usual mass that I go to on a sunday and/or any changes to special masses eg Easter??

I found through a search a few posts in the ACP thread, and a link to the Irish Catholic where it says that the mass is not changing. However, I would like to see if that is the case or not.

As a side note, our local priests usually change The Gloria or the Profession of Faith and soem other parts of the mass to not to read "men" and will either say, for example, "for us and our salvation) or "for all", am I right that is is allowed or not, and will this be the sort of thing to be changed in the new missal?

Donatello

popebenny16 wrote: »

Can anyone help me out here, looking to see what changes, if any, the new missal will cause to the usual mass that I go to on a sunday and/or any changes to special masses eg Easter??

I found through a search a few posts in the ACP thread, and a link to the Irish Catholic where it says that the mass is not changing. However, I would like to see if that is the case or not.

As a side note, our local priests usually change The Gloria or the Profession of Faith and soem other parts of the mass to not to read "men" and will either say, for example, "for us and our salvation) or "for all", am I right that is is allowed or not, and will this be the sort of thing to be changed in the new missal?

The new translation can be viewed on the website of the US bishops here:
http://www.usccb.org/romanmissal/

The Irish bishops have a site about the translation here:
http://www.catholicbishops.ie/2011/04/14/the-new-translation-of-the-roman-missal/

I also attach a PDF of the Order of Mass provided by the Irish Bishops Conference at the very end of this post.

To give you an idea of the changes and why this is a good thing, check out the following:

The Collect is one of the prayers said at every Mass. For the Saturday in the 5th week of Lent, we have this prayer, from the Roman Missal, Typical Edition, in Latin:

COLLECT (2002MR)
Deus, qui omnes in Christo renatos
genus electum et regale sacerdotium fecisti,
da nobis et velle et posse quod praecipis,
ut populo ad aeternitatem vocato
una sit fides cordium et pietas actionum.

Now, let us see what we've been using for 40 years:

LAME-DUCK ICEL
God our Father,
you always work to save us,
and now we rejoice in the great love
you give to your chosen people.

Hmmm. I wonder what it really says in the Latin:

O God, who made all those reborn in Christ
to be a chosen race and a royal priesthood,
grant us both to desire and to be able to do what you command,
so that within the people called unto eternity
there may be one faith of hearts and one compassionate duty of actions.

So what will we be hearing when the new translation is introduced, and specifically, what will we be hearing next Lent, on the Saturday in the 5th week of Lent?

NEW CORRECTED ICEL:
O God, who have made all those reborn in Christ
a chosen race and a royal priesthood,
grant us, we pray, the grace to will and to do what you command,
that the people called to eternal life
may be one in the faith of their hearts
and the homage of their deeds.

This is a major improvement. It is beautiful exalted language, and retains the meaning of the Latin original. It respects the intelligence of the people, since it does not dumb down the text.

As regards your other comments, sadly, at present many priests disobediently change the texts of Mass which they are charged to pronounce. The new translation retains the words, 'For us men and for our salvation...' during the Creed. They have no authority whatsoever to change this to suit feminist ideology, and doing so goes against Vatican II and the laws of the Church:

Vatican II, Sacrosanctum Concilliam:

3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

And recently, another instruction from the Holy See, Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[59.] The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.

You might mention it to your priests and ask them why they change the Mass texts. Doing so reveals an arrogance, a knowing-better than Holy Mother Church. Of course, you must be polite and sensitive, since priests do not like to be told they are doing it wrong! Humility though is what is required - a humility which allows oneself to be corrected. Clerical pride would say ''Who are you, a lay-person, to tell me, a priest, how to say Mass?'' Don't get into arguments though. Just ask the priest why he does it, and then perhaps show him the relevant documents of the Church. If you need advice on this, just ask me. It would be wishful thinking to imagine that the new translation will put an end to all the funny business. Yes, it is a new translation, but hearts must be converted to Jesus if we are to progress in holiness, and this applies as much to priests as to lay-persons. It is sad to say it, but today in the Church, there are many lay-persons who have better formation than many priests, and not only in liturgical matters.

The translation of Mass we've used for 40 years was not a good translation, since it used a now abandoned means of translation called dynamic equivalence, and is more of a paraphrase than an actual translation. It is good we are finally getting a worthy replacement.

The ACP object to the new translation on ideological grounds. They also object to the Church doctrine on human sexuality, and for example wish to see homosexual acts condoned in Church teaching. They do not like the new translation because it follows faithfuly the approved edition of the Roman Missal - the base text - which is always in Latin. All the world's versions in the local languages are based on the Latin. The ACP are blind guides leading souls astray - make sure you are not one of them. Try to find holy priests who teach the faith and offer Mass with all the reverence and sacrality our Blessed Lord deserves in His real presence in the Eucharist.

popebenny16

thanks for that reply. I too find that the revised (if that is the word) translation of the collect to be more poetic and moving than the rather bland and empty version which we have been using. It is in fact a bit of an eye opener and I will look at the PDF (which at over 70 pages I assume involves many Feast day special players and variants) with great interest.

As to the amendments of the Mass by my local priests, I wonder if this is done by command of the parish priest, or of the local bishop. It seems very coincidental that we have a canon and two curates all singing off the same hymn sheet, as it were. It is something I have only noticed this year, so I wonder who or what lead to this coming about.

popebenny16

I found this link http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/3-March-2011-The-New-Missal-what-is-changing.pdf very interesting.

I think and hope that sometime soon that the Church will get around to actually telling the mass congregations about these changes. I only found out because I have being trying to find works on the history of the mass and how it has changed during the centuries. I was surprised, to say the least, to find that it is changing this year, because there isnt a word of it in common conversation.

Festus

popebenny16 wrote: »

I found this link http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/3-March-2011-The-New-Missal-what-is-changing.pdf very interesting.

I think and hope that sometime soon that the Church will get around to actually telling the mass congregations about these changes. I only found out because I have being trying to find works on the history of the mass and how it has changed during the centuries. I was surprised, to say the least, to find that it is changing this year, because there isnt a word of it in common conversation.

The Church has. The problem is the priests have not, at least not in Ireland much.

Most practising Catholics and those who are interested in the faith are aware of it. Those who attend Mass occasionally will be surprised.

popebenny16

Festus wrote: »

The Church has. The problem is the priests have not, at least not in Ireland much.

Most practising Catholics and those who are interested in the faith are aware of it. Those who attend Mass occasionally will be surprised.

i cant agree with you there, but this is only based on local experiance. I go three weeks out of every four and also usually first friday and not a word of it here. those who attend our church are almost all regualrs and it was news to them too.

Festus

popebenny16 wrote: »

i cant agree with you there, but this is only based on local experiance. I go three weeks out of every four and also usually first friday and not a word of it here. those who attend our church are almost all regualrs and it was news to them too.

Take it up with the priests in the Parish so. I take it the parisioners are getting their new from the Irish Times

What I mean by interested practising Catholics are those that read the Catholic media and maybe even trawl the web for Catholic news.

I first heard about it on boards.ie. Perhaps you should introduce them to this bastion of Catholic education

Donatello

Festus wrote: »

Take it up with the priests in the Parish so. I take it the parisioners are getting their new from the Irish Times

What I mean by interested practising Catholics are those that read the Catholic media and maybe even trawl the web for Catholic news.

I first heard about it on boards.ie. Perhaps you should introduce them to this bastion of Catholic education

In truth, there is a a better formation course to be had by following the threads here than in most parishes.

In my diocese, there has been no preparation for the new Missal. None.

So many parishioners are ignorant and do take their cue from the Irish Times and other bad sources like RTE.

I'd advise people to buy Catholic Voice (newspaper), Position Papers (an Opus Dei journal), and read good blog sites, like WDTPRS? The Irish Catholic is best avoided.

Plowman

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Donatello

Plowman wrote: »

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I think it depends on the enthusiasm of the priest for the new translation.

Your parish sounds like an exception to the norm.

Keylem

Plowman wrote: »

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The Galway Diocese has a blog with info about the New Missal.

http://www.galwaydiocese.ie/missalblog.html

hinault

We have had no notification of the changes here in the diocese of Emly and Cashel.

I was aware that the changes were being introduced (courtesy of Pat Kenny's radio show no less) but at parish level there has been zero notification.

Donatello

hinault wrote: »

We have had no notification of the changes here in the diocese of Emly and Cashel.

I was aware that the changes were being introduced (courtesy of Pat Kenny's radio show no less) but at parish level there has been zero notification.

I can't help but see that as anything other than a lack of interest. Maybe some anxiety on the part of priests as to how the Missal will be received by the people. But really, burying the head in the sand is no solution. The opportunity to be grasped is now to make the most of the time available to introduce the new Missal. Apparently the efforts will begin in earnest in September. But what about now? Do nothing and let the enemies of the Missal do all they can to try to spoil the thing and turn people against it. It won't work, ultimately, but it seems always the way in the Church that good opportunities are squandered by those in charge.

hinault

Donatello wrote: »

I can't help but see that as anything other than a lack of interest. Maybe some anxiety on the part of priests as to how the Missal will be received by the people. But really, burying the head in the sand is no solution. The opportunity to be grasped is now to make the most of the time available to introduce the new Missal. Apparently the efforts will begin in earnest in September. But what about now? Do nothing and let the enemies of the Missal do all they can to try to spoil the thing and turn people against it. It won't work, ultimately, but it seems always the way in the Church that good opportunities are squandered by those in charge.

I'm gonna contact Bishop Dermot Clifford's office and ask him to get a move on regarding this.
My parents parish back in Dublin have been made aware of these changes.
But damn all here.

Clifford is an incompetent anyhow and this just illustrates it.

popebenny16

i am also cashel and emly, maybe it is indeed coming from Clifford, i will ask the PP on Friday evening

hinault

popebenny16 wrote: »

i am also cashel and emly, maybe it is indeed coming from Clifford, i will ask the PP on Friday evening

I think Bishop Clifford should be able to rectify the situation. Unfortunately it looks like he has to be asked to do so:o

popebenny16

turns out something has happened down here anyway we all got glossy little handouts on the new missal last week. Also, in the local school they are learning the "new" gloria.

Keylem

The ACP criticised the text in the new Roman Missal, claiming it's archaic, elitist and obscure.

"Priests and Mass-goers have been urged not to use parts of the new prayer book that uses 'sexist' language, writes John Cooney
The new Roman missal, produced by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy, is to be introduced in all Catholic churches by November 27.


However, the recently-formed Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) has criticised the new text, claiming it is archaic, elitist and obscure.
The association has said "many women will be rightly enraged by the continued deliberate use of non-inclusive language".
Battle lines between dissident clergy and the Irish Bishops Conference, which supports the changes ordered by Rome, intensified last night after a private meeting in Portlaoise of the ACP.


Protesters
A small group of protesters who disagree with the ACP's views, picketed outside the venue while the meeting was taking place.
The ACP unanimously accepted a motion recommending that "priests and people avoid using the sexist language that pervades the new missal".
ACP member Fr Tony Flannery said priests were "baffled that while generous provision has been made for the Latin Mass, no provision is being made to accommodate the far greater number of people who will have difficulty for different reasons with the new missal".
Fr Flannery said such exemptions were possible under Vatican guidelines."

The HOLY MASS is NOT about us, it's about GOD, so I can't understand where all this sexism is coming from??? :mad:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/faithful-and-priests-urged-to-avoid-using-sexist-missal-2665125.html

Donatello

Keylem wrote: »

Protesters
A small group of protesters who disagree with the ACP's views, picketed outside the venue while the meeting was taking place.
The ACP unanimously accepted a motion recommending that "priests and people avoid using the sexist language that pervades the new missal".
ACP member Fr Tony Flannery said priests were "baffled that while generous provision has been made for the Latin Mass, no provision is being made to accommodate the far greater number of people who will have difficulty for different reasons with the new missal".
Fr Flannery said such exemptions were possible under Vatican guidelines."

The HOLY MASS is NOT about us, it's about GOD, so I can't understand where all this sexism is coming from??? :mad:

I wonder who the protest group were.

Anyhow, these guys are a complete and utter joke. The group they are involved with, We are Church, are another group of apostates who want women priests and acceptance of homosexual acts.

These people are enemies of the Church of Jesus Christ. They are the embodiment of Modernism, what Pope Saint Pius X called the 'synthesis of all heresies'. Whereas before, heretics left the Catholic Church to form their own sects, the Modernist remains within the visible body of the Church, spreading their faithless poison to maximum effect.

Quo Vadis

The so called ACP are a minority group of heretics, pure and simple.


If wishy washy clown folk mass is what they desire they can set up their own church.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQPkYwIOCRM