Smell from upstairs toilet waste pipe

Slaphead07

Hi all,
I have a problem with a smell from an upstairs toilet installed 4 years ago in what was a medium sized front bedroom of a 106 year old Victorian house.
The waste pipe for the new toilet goes under the floorboards and then to the back of the house to join the original waste pipe for the original, and still used, toilet on the return landing. The old toilet doesn’t have a problem so I don’t think it’s a venting issue.
The smell can permeate the entire upstairs (and further!) and it’s not confined to the toilet itself. Recently I’ve thought the smell was more from where the new waste pipe went through an exterior wall and into the old waste down pipe.
The waste pipe is not shared with bath/sink/shower so I don’t think it’s a trap issue either.
I’m thinking that the gradient on the waste pipe, from front to back, is too shallow and the waste isn’t being cleared as it should. We did have a rat in the sewer pipe a while back but this odour isn’t like that… it’s more ‘drains’.

Any ideas? Would a serious chemical drain cleaner work?
Thanks.

alphanumeric

I have the exact same problem but only during the warm weather. Seems like the waste isn’t leaving the bathroom. The only way I can solve it is to fill the bath and it clears the pipe as the bath waste is connected to the waste pipe from the toilet. Maybe continually flush it before you buy a drain cleaner.

The smell does seem to come up through the bath and handbasin rather than from the toliet, maybe leave the tap running in the handbasin for a few minutes would help clear the pipe as well as the flushing.

Slaphead07

alphanumeric wrote: »

I have the exact same problem but only during the warm weather. Seems like the waste isn’t leaving the bathroom. The only way I can solve it is to fill the bath and it clears the pipe as the bath waste is connected to the waste pipe from the toilet. Maybe continually flush it before you buy a drain cleaner.

The smell does seem to come up through the bath and handbasin rather than from the toliet, maybe leave the tap running in the handbasin for a few minutes would help clear the pipe as well as the flushing.

as the waste pipe from bath/sink/shower is separate running these makes no difference. I'm really just trying to avoid lifting floor boards in two bedrooms but it's looking inevitable.

alphanumeric

Slaphead07 wrote: »

as the waste pipe from bath/sink/shower is separate running these makes no difference. I'm really just trying to avoid lifting floor boards in two bedrooms but it's looking inevitable.

Maybe try the flushing before you go that route, and maybe a double flush after the toilet has be used to help the waste leave the pipe?

DoneDL

Check your drains before doing any other work as there may be a partial blockage.

slavetothegrind

is the toilet in question syphoning?
when you flush is there less water in the pan than you might expect afterwards?
does the water level rise in the pan and then receed?

Slaphead07

slavetothegrind wrote: »

is the toilet in question syphoning?
when you flush is there less water in the pan than you might expect afterwards?
does the water level rise in the pan and then receed?

Only very briefly. Does this indicate a blockage?

Buford T Justice

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Only very briefly. Does this indicate a blockage?

Yes.

Slaphead07

any further insights?

Slaphead07

Bumpity for plumbers

Slaphead07

sunday bump

Slaphead07

Ok, bumping again... after OCD levels of flushing and many bottles of "Guaranteed to Work" drain clearer we still have the smells. Not as often and maybe not as bad but the problem is still there.

slavetothegrind

how was the new toilet waste joined to the old pipe?
this would be plastic to cast, was the joint properly done?
if guntered it could be leaking under your floor, but not enough to show downstairs.

if you know where the tie in is lift that section of boards and have a look.

there's not a rip in the pan connector between the porcelain toilet and the waste pipe is there?
would be no leak but a smell?

picture maybe?

Slaphead07

slavetothegrind wrote: »

how was the new toilet waste joined to the old pipe?
this would be plastic to cast, was the joint properly done?
if guntered it could be leaking under your floor, but not enough to show downstairs.

The waste pipe comes from a front room of the house (originally a bedroom), under the floorboards to where the original and still used toilet is on the 'return'. there's a 90 degree turn where it joins the old cast iron downpipe but the actual joint is just outside the house, the plastic goes out through the brickwork.
The smells actually move between the old and new toilet which makes me think there's a blockage in the waste pipe
Thanks for the feedback.

enfield

Look outside your window. Does the sewage breather pipe stop just below or on par with the window? If so extent it up past the window altogether. This pipe allows sewage gas to rise from the pipes and should be allowed to vent (escape) above the level of the roof.

Slaphead07

enfield wrote: »

Look outside your window. Does the sewage breather pipe stop just below or on par with the window? If so extent it up past the window altogether. This pipe allows sewage gas to rise from the pipes and should be allowed to vent (escape) above the level of the roof.

Yeah, the original (Victorian) downpipe goes up well clear of the roof.

Micky Dolenz

Is there a shower tray in the room? is it used often? If not, ensure the shower is ran for a minute at least once a week to prevent trap drying out.

Other common one is the black rubber is slightly perished where the pan connects to the waste pipe. Replace the multikwik.

Slaphead07

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Is there a shower tray in the room? is it used often? If not, ensure the shower is ran for a minute at least once a week to prevent trap drying out.

Other common one is the black rubber is slightly perished where the pan connects to the waste pipe. Replace the multikwik.

The toilet is on its own waste pipe, shower, bath and handbasin have their own.
The toilet is only 4 years old so it's hardly perished... it looks ok anyway.

is there a drain cleaner available that actually works?

Micky Dolenz

Slaphead07 wrote: »

The toilet is on its own waste pipe, shower, bath and handbasin have their own.
The toilet is only 4 years old so it's hardly perished... it looks ok anyway.

is there a drain cleaner available that actually works?

Your missing my point.

Do you use the shower?

Fittings are often low quality and the black rubber turns in on itself.It may look fine.

It isn't a issue of cleaning the drain, a drain will always smell no matter how clean it is as it is connected to a sewer. The traps are what keeps the smell from coming out.

Bruthal

Yes the shower tray drains dry out quite quickly if the shower is not used regularly, and the sewer smell comes straight out then as said above. Just run the shower for a minute and if its that, you will see improvement very quickly. Thats the idea of water traps in sinks, toilets etc, a barrier to the sewer smell.

Slaphead07

Yep, the shower is used twice a day, it has a 1 metre drain slot to get water away quickly and the trap, a rubber block in the centre, is clear.
The bath is rarely used but I can fill and flush it I suppose.

As mentioned, the bath, shower and handbasin have their own waste pipes so are unlikely to smell of 'drain'. They do of course meet the drain at the old cast iron down-pipe, could odours travel back 40+ feet or be smelt along the landings? is it possible that the rarely used bath is the conduit for the smell? Given the type and varying location of the smell it really doesn't seem likely to me.

Slaphead07

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It isn't a issue of cleaning the drain, a drain will always smell no matter how clean it is as it is connected to a sewer. The traps are what keeps the smell from coming out.

This could well be the issue alright, but the smell is over two landings (the length of the waste pipe) and not from the bath.

Bruthal

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Yep, the shower is used twice a day, it has a 1 metre drain slot to get water away quickly and the trap, a rubber block in the centre, is clear.
The bath is rarely used but I can fill and flush it I suppose.

As mentioned, the bath, shower and handbasin have their own waste pipes so are unlikely to smell of 'drain'. They do of course meet the drain at the old cast iron down-pipe, could odours travel back 40+ feet or be smelt along the landings? is it possible that the rarely used bath is the conduit for the smell? Given the type and varying location of the smell it really doesn't seem likely to me.

What was being said was, make sure none of the drain traps have lost their water from non use for a while, if the water evaporates from them, the sewer smell will be quickly out. Thats just one possibility, and eliminated by running the water in each item for a minute or 2 on the ones not used in a while to ensure the traps are full.

I let my ensuite shower basin do the above as i was using the other shower, and the smell was brutal all upstairs when it started. Ran shower in ensuite for a minute, problem solved.

Its just one possibility.

Slaphead07

Yeah, advice appreciated lads, thanks.

Slaphead07

Slaphead07 wrote: »

.
The bath is rarely used but I can fill and flush it I suppose.

Filled, run and well wetted. I think it helped but there's still a pong.
At this stage I'm thinking it must be the connections of toilet bowl to the waste pipe. The new one looks ok but then the other original toilet was turned 90 degrees and a 'concertina' type connector was used to join to the waste-pipe. That really doesn't sound ideal does it? Or is that accepted practice.

Micky Dolenz

They are acceptable depending if they are fitted correctly. We had a case where there was a tiny tear one if those and it was letting smell out bhave a good look at it and replace if necessary.

slavetothegrind

the seal in that pan connector worth checking too, if it was rammed in there the seal could well have been disturbed.

Slaphead07

quick update.
I got a drain guy that I trust in to investigate it and he spotted the culprit immediately. The multiwik connection on the return toilet, going into the old down pipe, wasn't in far enough. I since bought a short multiwik to try and seal the connection but I've been unable to push the connection in far enough. I've put a call out for a recommendation for a trustworthy non-ripoff plumber but they're not easy to find (I have a few other jobs for him too). If anyone has a genuine recommendation for one in the Dublin area PM me.

Slaphead07

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I've put a call out for a recommendation for a trustworthy non-ripoff plumber but they're not easy to find (I have a few other jobs for him too). If anyone has a genuine recommendation for one in the Dublin area PM me.

I know good plumbers are hard to find but surely somebody knows a competent reasonable one?

Micky Dolenz

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I know good plumbers are hard to find but surely somebody knows a competent reasonable one?

You generally have to pay the competent ones well.

Slaphead07

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You generally have to pay the competent ones well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to pay well for a good job. So far I've been paying well for shoddy work.