Official-no citing for O'Brien

Quint2010

O'Brien escapes citing




GAVIN CUMMISKEY
RUGBY: THE ONLY modicum of concern surrounding an injury-free Leinster camp yesterday evening was the potential citing of Seán O’Brien for an incident with Toulouse flanker Yannick Nyanga just as French number eight Louis Picamoles went over untouched for a try in the 44th minute of Saturday’s Heineken Cup semi-final at the Aviva Stadium.
David Skrela’s subsequent conversion put the defending champions 20-16 in front just as replays showed O’Brien being clearly impeded by Nyanga when the Irish flanker attempted to position himself as the last line of defence.
O’Brien reacted by flinging his arm back and striking his Zaire-born opposite number in the face. The injury Nyanga subsequently suffered meant he had to be replaced by captain Thierry Dusautoir.
However, the 50-hour window for Douglas Hunter, the experienced Scottish citing commissioner present in Dublin, to decide if O’Brien had a case to be heard passed at 5.30pm yesterday when the ERC confirmed that no report, on any player, had been submitted from Saturday’s thrilling encounter.
So the 24-year-old Carlow man will not be hindered from finishing his already inspirational season in Cardiff.

This is great and somewhat unexpected news. Or maybe we were all paranoid...

PhatPiggins

Delighted, thats me one step closer to winning my Leinster for the HC outright bet

Donnielighto

It is great and unexpected news but I don't think we were being paranoid, he should have been cited. Delighted for him and leinster that he gets to play in the final

totallegend

While this is great news, the fact is O'Brien punched his opponent in the face and is very lucky to have got off scot-free.

irishbucsfan

It's a bit mad really. Just shows how completely inconsistant the HEC are.

Aidric

Ah here, complete joke. Lucky boy it has to be said.

the immortals

thats great news, must have kept hunter tied up until 5.30 or something!!

Chucky the tree

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

thomond2006

Can't believe that.

WeeBushy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

Ah come on get down off that horse of yours.

Do I think O'Brien deserved to be banned? Absolutely. Do I think he is lucky not to have been? Without a doubt. In saying that, am I happy to have our best back rower available for the final? Of course I am, how could you not be.

The citing commissioner said there was no case to answer and that's that. Delighted we'll be able to put out our strongest team.

GerM

Call me cynical but if this had been in the pool stages I think SOB would have been cited.

WeeBushy

GerM wrote: »

Call me cynical but if this had been in the pool stages I think SOB would have been cited.

Yeah, quite possibly. Out of curiosity, I would quite like to hear the citing commissioner's opinion on the matter.

tolosenc

Maye the commissioner thought there wasn't much in it? I dunno. Very lucky. Good news all the same.

Quint2010

Really its very inconsistent by the ERC. Even us honest Leinster fans are of the consensus he should have been banned. He is a very lucky boy-I wonder will it affect his performance in the final?

LeeroyJones

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

Thuggery??!!?? without getting into a debate as to what the strict definition of thuggery is... How do you back that up?
Speartackles are thuggery
Intentional Eyegouges are thuggery
Repeatedly punching someone is thuggery

Swinging a fist when provoked is an offence, a red card and citable offence admittedly. SOB is a lucky boy, no doubt.
However, having seen players get away with what genuinely is thuggery, I'll take this decision by the citing commissioner with open arms! Not that 2 wrongs make a right, but when you get the rub of the green - take it.

WeeBushy

Quint2010 wrote: »

Really its very inconsistent by the ERC. Even us honest Leinster fans are of the consensus he should have been banned. He is a very lucky boy-I wonder will it affect his performance in the final?

Very lucky indeed. Nah I doubt it will, the final is not for another 3 weeks and he will have have played a game or two in between. I'd say he'll have forgotten all about it by the time the final comes around. I'd say he's extremely relieved now but I can't see how it would affect his performance tbh.

wixfjord

Delighted with that, but a crazy decision imo.

The Tank is really really important for us.

Also some of the begrudgery is hilarious!

the immortals

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

thuggery, jesus thats a ridiculous thing to say, munster fan are we?

Otacon

I think I would have preferred if SOB had gotten cited with a relatively small ban.

Personally, I think Leinster would beat Northampton without him. If he plays an important part in their win now [which he will of course], then it kind of colours the game.

Anyway, all he can do now is prepare.

Quint2010

Otacon wrote: »

I think I would have preferred if SOB had gotten cited with a relatively small ban.

Personally, I think Leinster would beat Northampton without him. If he plays an important part in their win now [which he will of course], then it kind of colours the game.

Anyway, all he can do now is prepare.

Thats one way of looking at it I suppose. Mind you-NONE of themedia made anythig of the incident-not even our friends on sky sports so as I said at the top-maybe we were being paranoid about the whole thing. I mean Chuter wasnt cited for the punch on Cullen was he?

Otacon

Quint2010 wrote: »

Mind you-NONE of themedia made anythig of the incident-not even our friends on sky sports so as I said at the top-maybe we were being paranoid about the whole thing.

True - but should the media play any kind of role in whether or not someone gets cited?

IMO it was a deliberate punch [deserved too TBH] which should have resulted in a ban. As I said, Leinster could do it without him, but another part of me is glad he will get to finish his fantastic season.

irishbucsfan

I do think we would still beat Northampton without SOB. McLaughlin/Jennings/Heaslip is still the best back row in the competition.

blackdog2

The ERC seems to cite when something is out of hand. Nyanga pulled him back, allowing a simple run in for a try, any opportunity Leinster had to complain was negated by Nyanga being laid out by O'Brien(and, it looks like Nyanga went down a little too easy, although I would not like to have been in his shoes!)

However, as the incident settled itself on the pitch, apparently no further decisions needed to be made.

Hyperbullet

It was a red card offence, he deserves to be cited for it. But you can't hold any sort of begrudgery against him or Leinster if he isn't held accountable, its down to the officials at the ERC to uphold the law. He's lucky, damn lucky. But I'm happy he'll be playing in the final.

onlyrocknroll

I'm happy for Leinster and O'Brien particularly because it would be shame after his season if he missed the final. But more objectively he should have got cited.

I'm of the opinion that citations are given far too easily for punches and slaps (rather than dangerous tackles, or gouges etc of course) but just accepting the way these things are dealt with O'Brien deserved to be cited.

If you compare this to other similar incidents O'Brien's was quite serious. He swung his arm twice, and could perfectly see what he was doing on the second swing. Also Nyanga had to go off from the injury. O'Brien's very luckly IMO.

Tim Robbins

Tongue is in the cheek Don't pay too much attention wrote:

Thuggery...

SOB / Leinster extremely lucky. He should have been cited and banned. As I have said before, what players get away with at the highest level serves as a guideline all the way down.

Could you imagine that happened at a Leinster League game (professional fouling and a swinging arm)? All hell will break loose.

If an elite ref and two elite TJs miss it - it's going certainly be "occasionally" missed at lower levels. When players get away with things at higher levels it makes things harder to control (and hence more dangerous) at lower levels.

yimrsg

Delighted for the lad as it was a moment of madness that could have deprived him (and rugby fans) of a HC final along with the business end of the ML.

I'm not saying he wasn't lucky or deserving of something but in those circumstances, a lot of posters here in the same situation would have reacted the same.

sock puppet

Good news for us but I'm surprised about this. Wonder will we see any citings from the Northampton-Perpignan match. Some of the behaviour after Dickson was taken out in the air was a disgrace.

theofficepest2

One word for this, Handbags

:pac: Ourp

almighty1

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

I think Leinster fans "delight" is more the fact that he will be playing in the final. In fairness, O Brien has never been a dirty player and Nyanga was asking for that.

Giving him the thump he deserved and getting away with it is the best of both worlds

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

WeeBushy wrote: »

Ah come on get down off that horse of yours.

Do I think O'Brien deserved to be banned? Absolutely. Do I think he is lucky not to have been? Without a doubt. In saying that, am I happy to have our best back rower available for the final? Of course I am, how could you not be.

The citing commissioner said there was no case to answer and that's that. Delighted we'll be able to put out our strongest team.

Very well said. I was going to reply to the above post as soon as I saw it, but you have said what I would have said (apart from maybe being a bit cleaner :pac:)

GerM wrote: »

Call me cynical but if this had been in the pool stages I think SOB would have been cited.

I agree with you on this!

P_1

Delighted to hear this, perhaps the ERC saw a bit of common sense and decided to allow some on-pitch enforcement to return to the game.

gosplan

Delighted for O'Brien.

Even the citing comissioner, through his lack of action, has acknowledged that Nyanga deserved that slap.

Tomtom364

Considering the POC incident earlier in the season.
This is a bit of a joke decision by the citing commissioner.

castie

Complete and utter joke to be honest but im happy for SOB to not miss such a big game.

Quint2010

Does citing mean that the decision wasnt seen and therefore wasnt dealt with at the time and is therefore dealt with retrospectively or does citing mean that it can also been seen at the time, dealt with (with for example a yellow/red card) and also a banned placed on top of that punishment. Was O'Connells ban for example actually a citing?

castie

Quint2010 wrote: »

Does citing mean that the decision wasnt seen and therefore wasnt dealt with at the time and is therefore dealt with retrospectively or does citing mean that it can also been seen at the time, dealt with (with for example a yellow/red card) and also a banned placed on top of that punishment. Was O'Connells ban for example actually a citing?

They can cite even if action has been taken.

Ciaran-Irl

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Considering the POC incident earlier in the season.
This is a bit of a joke decision by the citing commissioner.

Nope. He was being prevented from tackling, leading to a try in a semi. Real provocation. There was also a lot of force in O'Connell's elbow, which was more dangerous. O'Connell's disciplinary record is worse too. You'll never agree, as you'll naturally enough have loyalty to your own team, but it is true.

How many weeks ban did O'Connell get for punching Cudmore a couple of years ago anyway? I don't recall. That was bigger provocation obviously.

Chuter's punch wasn't ever even mentioned. NOBODY outside of rugby forums saw anything in this punch. Way too much over analysis of a nothing issue.

Nyanga was also substituted tactically, not due to injury. Dussatoir was ready to come on regardless.

I did think O'Brien would get 2-4 weeks because of an over zealous ERC, so delighted common sense prevails.

TheHighRoad

The difference between O'Connell's incident and O'Brien's incident is that O'Connell's was in plain view for everyone to see and the citing commissioner had no choice but to cite. Both were handbags that I doubt any ref would genuinely want to cite but the difference is O'Brien's incident wasn't even noticed by most people and so the commissioner probably saw it for what it was, O'Brien reacting to being provoked. I've talked to lots of people who didn't even know O'Brien had swung out. If you remember I don't recall O'Connell being cited for reacting to Cudmore when he hit out for example.

TheHighRoad

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame to see Leinster fans are delighted with one of their players getting away with such thuggery.

No mention of a Leicester player not getting cited for a full force punch on Leo Cullen's jaw then?

GerM

The citing commissioner did not act in relation to POC's elbowing incident. A player that receives a straight red card automatically has to go before a disciplinary committee to judge whether further sanction is required.

Quint2010

GerM wrote: »

The citing commissioner did not act in relation to POC's elbowing incident. A player that receives a straight red card automatically has to go before a disciplinary committee to judge whether further sanction is required.

so thats not a citing then?

Quint2010

"given Seán O’Brien was retaliating to Yannick Nyanga’s illegal tug, it would have been harsh had he been cited and suspended for the final.".

Thtas the Thornsters view on it. Biased I know but maybe just maybe thats how it was viewed by the ERC..

Chucky the tree

lol, so two wrongs make a right now? That's really a great level to be setting for the future. Wonder how long it will take before faking injury and diving become acceptable in rugby, looking at this thread it won't be long.

GerM

Quint2010 wrote: »

so thats not a citing then?

#

Correct, not a citing. I believe when it is as a result of a citing the ERC say in their release they have "received a citing complaint" whilst with POC's they said it was as a result of a red card.

Quint2010

No but maybe the ERC took the view that Toulouse got 7 points out of the incident (ok they may have scored anyway) so the net result was that Leinster were penalised seven points even though they were were as much sinned against as sinning. For example in soccer alot of commentators are calling for the red card issued to a player that concedes a goal scoring opportunity AND PENALTY to be changed back to only a yellow as losing a player as well as conceding a penalty is too harsh on the defending team

CouchSmart

Delighted he didn't get cited, roll on Cardiff.

almighty1

Chucky the tree wrote: »

......diving become acceptable in rugby, looking at this thread it won't be long.

Of course diving is acceptable in rugby, sure the majority of tries are scored by diving.

I hate that damn Chris Ashton celebration though.

Aidric

I wonder if any lobbying was done from St Stephens Green. :eek::eek:

daveharnett

Here's the link for those who want another look.

Lucky enough imo. The fact that he initially went for an elbow, then took another go means it's well worth a yellow for me. If anything, Nyanga's overreaction saves O'Brien - it highlights the fact that O'Brien never made any kind of real contact.

Tomtom364

GerM wrote: »

The citing commissioner did not act in relation to POC's elbowing incident. A player that receives a straight red card automatically has to go before a disciplinary committee to judge whether further sanction is required.

I never said the citing commissioner acted in the POC incident.
POC was red carded and the disciplinary committee judged the offence serious enough for a ban.
Which implies they accepted the red card and didnt judge it as harsh. This evidence would show that they find this sort of striking out as unacceptable behaviour.

Citing is in place to catch red/yellow card offences that get missed by the officials on the day.
Reguardless of any any holding done by another player, no player can intentionally strike another. Im more then willing to accept im wrong if someone can point me in the direction of the rule that states this is legal.

Often penalties are overturned when a player reacts voilently to being the victim of a cynical, but non-malicious penalty eg. blocking.

IMO, if the ref had seen the incident I belive the try should have been dissallowed, a penalty awarded to Leinster and then that penalty overturned and SOB yellow carded (not red as there was provocation) for reacting voilently.

I think its just extreme inconsistencyfrom the ERC.