Osama Bin Laden / Capital Punishment

I find it a bit weird with all the "hurrah he's dead" being spouted over the internet so here's a simple poll...

Boardsies usually proclaim to be against capital punishment so I'd like to here an explanation from people who are happy he was killed.

Sykk

Yes I'm glad he's gone. Scum of the earth for obvious reasons, don't think anyone really needs an explanation.

biko

I might be wrong but Usama wasn't executed, he was killed in the fire fight?

biko

biko wrote: »

I might be wrong but Usama wasn't executed, he was killed in the fire fight?

Not really relevant.. The people proclaiming that it's the greatest news ever aren't worried about how he died, they're just happy he did.

I don't see any difference between that and being happy someone got the death penalty. Surely people would have wanted him brought to justice?

Da Shins Kelly

I'm against capital punishment, and I'm not happy he was killed. However, the reason I'm not happy is simply because I'd be interested to hear what he'd say if he was put on trial. Pure curiosity more than anything else. Not that he would ever be put on trial publicly if he had been taken alive, but ideally I'd like to have seen that.

chin_grin

biko wrote: »

I might be wrong but Osama wasn't executed, he was killed in the fire fight?

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure "killed". :pac:

I'm still shocked that people are still swallowing this complete and utter nonsense that the news stations are giving us.

To spell it out here it goes.

US Seals infiltrate a lone mansion with five occupants, they shoot and kill all instead of using stun weapons. (Darts, tasers, etc).

It's still a bit TOO suss for me. <Yes, I still have my tinfoil hat on>.

karma_

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really relevant.. The people proclaiming that it's the greatest news ever aren't worried about how he died, they're just happy he did.

I don't see any difference between that and being happy someone got the death penalty. Surely people would have wanted him brought to justice?

The most disturbing thing about this whole incident was the scenes of supposedly sane Americans frothing at the mouth with joy during street celebrations. I found that hard to take.

karma_

karma_ wrote: »

The most disturbing thing about this whole incident was the scenes of supposedly sane Americans frothing at the mouth with joy during street celebrations. I found that hard to take.

Same.. Barbaric really.

mikedragon32

If he was taken alive and brought to trial, you can be sure there would be as many attacks in the hopes of having him released as there are likely to be in revenge for his death.

Still though, justice should be seen to be done. Two shots to the head doesn't seem to me like a mission to take him alive and bring him to trial.

tolosenc

Bin Laden was never leaving that compound alive once the SEALs came in. Outnumbered 8 to 1, he wasn't going to beat them off. He'd have taken his own life rather than be captured.

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see any difference between that and being happy someone got the death penalty. Surely people would have wanted him brought to justice?

That option wasn't available by all accounts.

pragmatic1

They might have made him a martyr and in this country especially, we know how powerful that can be to a particular cause.

AudreyHepburn

To be honest I don't think there was any chance of Bin Laden leaving that house alive, whether he took his own life, was aided by his guards or was taken out by the Americans.

I'm against Capital Punishment certainly but imo that's not what this was.

As for the Americans seen celebrating his death....well in all fairness I think they're entitled to.

dvpower

dvpower wrote: »

That option wasn't available by all accounts.

Again though, that's irrelevant to how people feel.

prinz

Where's the poll option for people who aren't exactly happy, but aren't quite unhappy either? He got what was coming to him, but until such time as the operation is shown to have been an assassination as opposed to anything else this thread is completely irrelevant.

Penn

Joyous celebration at finally having caught him I could understand. Joyous celebration at his death is somewhere barbaric.

I have no issue with how he was killed. He died in a gunfight and if shooting him was the only way to ensure the safety of their team and prevent him escaping again, fair enough. He wasn't given the death penalty, he was killed in battle. The celebrations at his death are disgusting though, and will likely only incite more hatred from other terrorist groups.

I'm not happy he was killed though, but if that was the only option available to them, and in a gunfight, it likely was, then its understandable.

Caoimhín

While not comparing him to Hitler, it can be put in the same context as the question of whether you would kill Hitler.

I am personally against capital punishment but I think i could make a few exceptions if greater human life could be saved. It isnt really a black and white issue, there is no right answer.

dvpower

chin_grin wrote: »

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure "killed". :pac:

You think he's still alive?

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Boardsies usually proclaim to be against capital punishment so I'd like to here an explanation from people who are happy he was killed.

Happy he was killed? I wouldn't say happy, but I wouldn't say he didn't deserve it.

It's not entirely the same as the capital punishment argument. I oppose capital punishment because there's no way to guarantee in 100% of cases that the person to be executed is guilty. Massive amounts of people on death row in the US have subsquently been proven to be completely innocent.

This is a different case though. The guy has broadcast numerous videos of himself taking credit for various terrorist acts resulting in the deaths of thousands and threatening the world with more such acts. So unless he's completely insane and is taking credit for these acts and has a vast support network of equally crazy people backing up these claims, then I'm going to say that he's undeniably guilty.

The US say that he was given the opportunity to surrender. I don't really doubt that, however it was probably a little bit hollow. They would have known that he wouldn't surrender, and to be frank if I was the SEAL with a clear headshot of Osama and my finger on the trigger, I would have been itching for him to give me any reason to take him down rather than take him in. I'm sure they were given very loose instructions on what to do. Dead or alive was a good outcome.

As for celebrating his death, well people will be people. The guy brought fear and destruction to their nation which a lot of Americans felt was a deeply personal attack on them. So this is vengeance. There's nothing new in this, and while I wouldn't be the kind of person to celebrate, I understand why they would do it.
To a certain extent it would be like hearing that the guy who murdered your son was beaten to death in a barroom fight. Some people would be annoyed that the guy died before he was brought to justice. Others would consider his death to be justice.

In terms of world safety I feel that in the long term his death is better than his incarceration because he's gone, he's done. There'll be some degree of martyrdom, but that's to be expected. If he was to be jailed and tried, he may still be free to spread his hatred and otherwise be a public figure.

Hannibal Smith

karma_ wrote: »

The most disturbing thing about this whole incident was the scenes of supposedly sane Americans frothing at the mouth with joy during street celebrations. I found that hard to take.

I remember after September 11th similar scenes were shown from Eastern Countries, people cheering in the streets burning the American flag etc and there was outrage over the pictures. Guess it's okay if you're on the 'good' side though?

dvpower

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I remember after September 11th similar scenes were shown from Eastern Countries, people cheering in the streets burning the American flag etc and there was outrage over the pictures. Guess it's okay if you're on the 'good' side though?

There is a bit of a difference between cheering the death of thousands of innocent people and cheering the death of someone like Osama Bin Laden.

Still, pretty unedifying.

IamtheWalrus

As previously mentioned, there are no right or wrong answers in this. I believe he should have been captured instead of shot but he was never going to be taken alive. Imagine the world's outrage if he had of gotten away when the Americans were within touching distance of a kill. His trial would have become a circus causing huge uproar in many Arab states, leading to eventual death anyway.

As for the Americans celebrating, although it doesn't look good, it is kind of understandable. He would have killed them all if he could. If there was a group in the world that wanted rid of every Irish person, I'd be happy he was dead, regardless of how it was done.

Only time will tell if he is to be considered a hero or not. He tried to put up a fight, the only fight, against the US. The US have killed many men, women and children too but because we are westeners, we sometimes turn a blind eye.

PeakOutput

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it a bit weird with all the "hurrah he's dead" being spouted over the internet so here's a simple poll...

Boardsies usually proclaim to be against capital punishment so I'd like to here an explanation from people who are happy he was killed.

I happen to be pro capital punishment but it has nothing to do with the bin laden thing

they went to get him, he would have been given a chance to surrender he didnt and used his wife as a human shield so they killed him. same thing would have happened if it was a criminal in ireland who forced the eru to go find him and wouldnt surrender

old_aussie

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely people would have wanted him brought to justice?

He was brought to justice.

God will judge him, the yanks just arranged the meeting.

AudreyHepburn

dvpower wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between cheering the death of thousands of innocent people and cheering the death of someone like Osama Bin Laden.

Still, pretty unedifying.

In fairness after what Bin Laden and Al Queda did to them the Americans are well within their rights to celebrate if they wish.

Mark200

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really relevant.. The people proclaiming that it's the greatest news ever aren't worried about how he died, they're just happy he did.

I don't see any difference between that and being happy someone got the death penalty. Surely people would have wanted him brought to justice?

I'd prefer that he was captured, but I'm happy he was killed. I'm against capital punishment.

I'd imagine the vast majority of Americans would also have preferred if he was captured, but if that's not possible then you have the option between killing him or letting him go.

It's not at all comparable to the death penalty. He wasn't executed. He wasn't under their control. He wasn't in custody. He wasn't tied to a chair while they killed him. He died while using his wife as a human shield firing at those entering his property.


Also, I found the celebrations by Americans in the street quite distasteful. It was like they had won the world cup. It was an action that had to be taken by the US.

old_aussie

old_aussie wrote: »

He was brought to justice.

God will judge him, the yanks just arranged the meeting.

:eek:

dvpower

old_aussie wrote: »

God will judge him, the yanks just arranged the meeting.

But his God was on his side.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

In fairness after what Bin Laden and Al Queda did to them the Americans are well within their rights to celebrate if they wish.

The individuals in the middle east were within their 'rights' to celebrate the 911 attacks given the history of the US in the region. Doesn't make it look any better from the other side.

pablomakaveli

I can't imagine Bin Laden would have let the Americans capture him alive. He probably knew that him dying was the better option as he'd become a martyr rather than be forgotten about in a prison cell and probably tried to fight the Americans who raided the compund.

I believe the Americans would have preferred to have captured him alive because he would have been more useful to them alive than dead.

I dont think the man deserved to live anyway and i'm glad he's gone. I believe some people just dont deserve to live.

Hannibal Smith

dvpower wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between cheering the death of thousands of innocent people and cheering the death of someone like Osama Bin Laden.

Still, pretty unedifying.

Ah, it's still pretty sick.

AnneFrank

typical of americans to over react and to fan the flames of hatred,
they should have been happy of course they should,
but thousands lining the streets with "USA" chants and singing the national anthem ?
WAY WAY over the top,
i would have thought their minds would be on the dead of 9/11,
all they are doing now is making a martyr of Osama,
Think James Connolly and Blood Sacrifice

DJCR

Not Happy he's dead and against Capital Punishment !!

It just seems like he got a Get out of jail free card. He doesn't have to answer for anything now........ all completely pointless, seems to me its a Cirque de Panne for the US Govt. coming up to the elections..... easy to do and reletively effortless to announce.... much like our own Senate demolition here!!

Manic Moran

The celebrations at his death are disgusting though, and will likely only incite more hatred from other terrorist groups.

You're saying that it will make the people who hate the US hate the US?

The man basically declared open war on the US people. I think most reasonable people around the world can understand the reaction of the average American and cut them a bit of slack. The unreasonable people, well, they were going to be a problem anyway.

NTM

take everything

karma_ wrote: »

The most disturbing thing about this whole incident was the scenes of supposedly sane Americans frothing at the mouth with joy during street celebrations. I found that hard to take.

Yeah that was pretty cringeworthy.
In fairness though, not as cringeworthy as Middle East celebration of Western death/destruction.

InTheTrees

chin_grin wrote: »

US Seals infiltrate a lone mansion with five occupants, they shoot and kill all instead of using stun weapons. (Darts, tasers, etc).

"Darts, tasers, etc?"

Are you nuts??? Darts? You'd go up against an AK47 with darts???

You think they should have checked ahead of time to see what osamas crew were armed with so it was a fair fight?

You've been playing too many video games sonny.

tayto lover

I'd say the Americans decided to kill him because they had little or no evidence against him. As far as i'm aware he never admitted his part in 9/11. he may have celebrated it and wanted it but was that any different than what we saw the American public do ?

KnifeWRENCH

I'm against capital punishment. I wouldn't say I'm happy he was killed, but I'm not shedding any tears over it either. *shrug*

SeaFields

I think there is something fundamentally different between capital punishment and how osama died. Osama died in the course of the firefight if you are to believe that or he was dragged out of that building and shot in the back of the head. Eitherway it was probably over in minutes.

Capital punishment in the sense of how we have come to know it involves convicting someone of a serious crime, incarcerating them with the individual in the full knowledge that on a specific day, at a specific time they are going to be strapped to a chair and either gased/electrocuted/ poisoned until they are dead. I believe the whole process, and not specifically the final act of killing, is part and parcel of the mental torture that capital punishment must inflict on someone.

Do I agree with it? I dont know, plain and simple. There are crimes out there that probably deserve it.

Something that stuck in my memory for years was the executing of timothy mcveigh. I watched the process live on some satellite channel of a group of people doing a count down outside the prison, 10, 9, 8, etc and then cheering "tim is dead, tim is dead". A women who was in the executing room proclaimed how she stood up and mouthed "fcuk you tim" and he was being strapped to the table.

Could I ever rejoice in someones death like that? I dont think so.

finty

take everything wrote: »

Yeah that was pretty cringeworthy.
In fairness though, not as cringeworthy as Middle East celebration of Western death/destruction.

Looked equally cringeworthy to me....

marco_polo

Had the option been available I would have have voted 'Meh, Against Capital Punishment'

brummytom

I read a few opinion pieces today, I found the quote from Rudy Giuliani (the Mayor of New York at the time of 9/11) interesting:

‘I feel satisfaction and some emotional relief but I don’t feel great elation. I watch a lot of the celebrating and it makes me feel a little strange, I don’t know.

'Nothing erases the loss of all those lives. I feel satisfaction and I feel the right thing has been done and it will be a good thing ultimately but I don’t feel like celebrating [as if it is] the end of World War II, because the war is still going on.’

I don't really feel the 'satisfaction', more the rest of what he says, but I didn't want to take his words out of context. I'm neither happy nor upset. I don't really understand the hype. He was one man, he wasn't the whole of terrorism.

It doesn't really change anything for the better to be honest, if anything it will make things far, far worse.
He should have been arrested and tried, not shot point blank. I think Bush and Blair are just as guilty of murder as Bin Laden.

take everything

finty wrote: »

Looked equally cringeworthy to me....

IMO chants of "death to America", burning flags and effigies, and celebratory machine gun fire when 3000 people die is more cringeworthy than
"USA, USA, USA" when a terrorist responsible for those 3000 deaths dies.

Peanut

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say the Americans decided to kill him because they had little or no evidence against him. As far as i'm aware he never admitted his part in 9/11. he may have celebrated it and wanted it but was that any different than what we saw the American public do ?

I think that was exactly the reason (although there were videos of him claiming responsibility).

Reuters reported a US official as saying that there was no intention of capturing him:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

Considering that they don't even know what to do with the Guantanamo inmates, they must have thought that the political risk of having a drawn out trial for Osama was too great.

Zardoz

Peanut wrote: »

Reuters reported a US official as saying that there was no intention of capturing him:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

It was a direct hit job.
Bin Laden wasnt even armed

Osama bin Laden was not armed when US special forces stormed his compound in Pakistan but he did resist before he was shot, White House spokesman Jay Carney said today

.
Was watching some US tv last night and the over reaction left me speechless.
People were comparing the significance of Bin Ladens death to the fall of the Berlin Wall,the end of the cold war and the end of the 2nd World War.:rolleyes: