Bin Ladens Death - Major Turning point?

RebelSniper

As we know Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight in Pakistan yesterday, as we saw with Germany and Hitler in WWII, the leader died and the morale was lost heavily, do yous all think the end of the war against terrorism is coming to an end, or do you think a new, more effective leader could emerge, post your opinions on this news and subject.

snickers

My fear would be that his death makes him a marter and what will the reprisal for his death be i am sure plans are in place to continue with terror attacks against the usa.

RebelSniper

Aye, if hes Martyred there wil be problems, But I'm guessing the loss of morale may cause the Terrorists to just give up fighting.

syklops

RebelSniper wrote: »

Aye, if hes Martyred there wil be problems, But I'm guessing the loss of morale may cause the Terrorists to just give up fighting.

Its not all over yet. On the one hand he was the CIA trained mastermind, so his death is a victory. On the other hand, he has had 10 long years to impart his knowledge to others.

Though I think it will be very interesting to see how Pakistan deals with this over the next few weeks and how they are seen by the world at large.

Short answer. I dont know. We'll have to wait and see.

Nicorigo

RebelSniper wrote: »

As we know Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight in Iraq yesterday, as we saw with Germany and Hitler in WWII, the leader died and the morale was lost heavily, do yous all think the end of the war against terrorism is coming to an end, or do you think a new, more effective leader could emerge, post your opinions on this news and subject.

Wasn't he killed in Pakistan?

RebelSniper

Aye, I had that wrong, Ill edit it now.

johngalway

Terrorism won't stop. There are simply too many disaffected people in that part of the world who have access to weaponry and money. However, killing, assassinating, whatever you want to call it, as many of the upper level people in each organization will hurt them and impede their ability to organize and carry out major attacks.

bunny shooter

RebelSniper wrote: »

.........do yous all think the end of the war against terrorism is coming to an end, or do you think a new, more effective leader could emerge, post your opinions on this news and subject.

Not a chance

johngalway wrote: »

Terrorism won't stop. There are simply too many disaffected people in that part of the world who have access to weaponry and money.

+1

johngalway wrote: »

However, killing, assassinating, whatever you want to call it, as many of the upper level people in each organization will hurt them and impede their ability to organize and carry out major attacks.

It will slow them down but won't stop them.

Continuity IRA is a fine example

DylanJM

bunny shooter wrote: »

It will slow them down but won't stop them.

I don't think this is going to slow them down at all. If anything I'm guessing there's going to be a lot more activity.

RMD

The fundamentalist Muslims are convinced if they die fighting something that poses a danger to Islam (Western society) they'll go straight to paradise, be best buds with Allah and have 72 virgins to ride the box off for eternity. So no it wont stop terrorism, as far as Al-Qaeda are concerned Osama's in the best spot imaginable.

I've read before the Al-Qaeda second in command was a much better leader / general type than Bin Laden from a paramilitary point of view. Considering this guy will be in power now, Al-Qaeda may become even more potent.

johngalway

bunny shooter wrote: »

It will slow them down but won't stop them.

Continuity IRA is a fine example

Yes & no. The CIRA are still going, but they're no PIRA when you consider the activity levels and general support.

If the same were to happen in the long term with Al Qaeda good and well. Personally if they want to blow stuff up in their home countries, I don't really mind. I do agree it's much better for the war to be fought in those places than in the likes of New York, London or Madrid.

One point that's being missed and I think it's important, this is a GOOD thing for Western morale. Spontaneous celebrations in Washington DC an New York at the ground zero site.

Why is it important? Because terrorists want to do just that, terrorize and make people afraid. Find the figure heads and stick a missile up their backside, makes the terrorists seem less "untouchable".

RebelSniper

n a less serious speech, did anyone see obamas speech, Did he really say Gaping hole...

Poccington

It's not a turning point at all. It's a massive, massive morale boost for US troops and more importantly the US people. Seeing these kind of things happen eliminates the "bogey man" aspect of terrorism, when their ideological figurehead gets nailed the way he did. You can't terrorise people who are willing to take the fight to you, getting OBL will help put the fire back in people's bellies.

Now, if they really want to damage AQ's operational capacity... Ayman al-Zawahiri has to go next.

OS119

Poccington wrote: »

It's not a turning point at all. It's a massive, massive morale boost for US troops and more importantly the US people. Seeing these kind of things happen eliminates the "bogey man" aspect of terrorism, when their ideological figurehead gets nailed the way he did. You can't terrorise people who are willing to take the fight to you, getting OBL will help put the fire back in people's bellies.

Now, if they really want to damage AQ's operational capacity... Ayman al-Zawahiri has to go next.

indeed - in strict operational terms OBL's death puts a dent in AQ in the same way that digging up the Duke of Wellington and hanging his corpse at Tyburn puts a dent in UK operations in Helmand. in that it doesn't.

two particularly interesting aspects were mentioned yesterday by Muslims living in the UK yesterday - firstly that a big part of the 'romance' of OBL and his 'brand' was the concept of giving up massive worldly wealth to undertake his Jihad (in the wide, Islamic, concept, rather than the Faux News concept), the living side-by-side with his men, sat in a cave etc... it sounds mince to us, but this chap reckoned it was a masive part of the radicalisation problem among young, dissaffected young Muslims with identity problems. he said that the revelation that friend OLB wasn't living in a cave eating rice and chickpeas, but in a massive villa in a holiday destination would do catastrophic damage to the 'brand' of AQ in particular and military Jihad in general.

secondly the fact that he's dead - another of the big 'draws' he had from those who feel themselves to be the underdog was the fact that by not being found, and simply being alive, he was showing that the US/West could be beaten. well, now he's dead, at no cost to the US and his body disposed of by the US on their terms kind of makes a big hole in that claim.

the bloke said that the Arab Spring, its success and the complete failure of AQ to be invited to the party, as well as the demise of OBL, had done enormous damage to the credibility of AQ and Jihadism within Muslim communities..

chiefbrody1974

RebelSniper wrote: »

As we know Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight in Pakistan yesterday, as we saw with Germany and Hitler in WWII, the leader died and the morale was lost heavily, do yous all think the end of the war against terrorism is coming to an end, or do you think a new, more effective leader could emerge, post your opinions on this news and subject.

you dont know he is dead, for a fact. what sort of government hunts a guy for 10 years, the most elusive man in history almost, and then claims to have buried the body at sea??/ are you serious???. they printed actual pictures of lee harvey oswald being shot, and we cannot even read the DNA reports for Bin laded??. The US are "now deciding exactly what they will show us". Oh we cant show you actual photos of bin laden but we can show you some lovely glossy's of obama and clinton looking terrified and stoney faced at a TV set in the oval office. Give me a break!!! At a time when obamas birth cert is in doubt and the UN/US are shelling the hell out of Libya, you think this was not a distraction???. I wasnt surprised to see thousands of mindless monkeys at ground zero yesterday, but not so much as a hint of suspicion from you guyz on Boards??? C'mon lads, you're better than that!! You dont have to be JIM CORR to smell a TURD on this one. The BOGEY man was a myth just like those WMD's the west used to substansiate a war for oil.

syklops

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

you dont know he is dead, for a fact. what sort of government hunts a guy for 10 years, the most elusive man in history almost, and then claims to have buried the body at sea??/ are you serious???. they printed actual pictures of lee harvey oswald being shot, and we cannot even read the DNA reports for Bin laded??. The US are "now deciding exactly what they will show us". Oh we cant show you actual photos of bin laden but we can show you some lovely glossy's of obama and clinton looking terrified and stoney faced at a TV set in the oval office. Give me a break!!! At a time when obamas birth cert is in doubt and the UN/US are shelling the hell out of Libya, you think this was not a distraction???. I wasnt surprised to see thousands of mindless monkeys at ground zero yesterday, but not so much as a hint of suspicion from you guyz on Boards??? C'mon lads, you're better than that!! You dont have to be JIM CORR to smell a TURD on this one. The BOGEY man was a myth just like those WMD's the west used to substansiate a war for oil.

But they did release pictures of his corpse.

Edit: My mistake. The picture I saw has turned out to be a fake. Apologies.

Donny5

syklops wrote: »

But they did release pictures of his corpse.

Did they? Can you send me a link, please?

Captain Chaos

No they didn't. There is the fake one going around. They won't show the real ones because he had taken around 2x 5.56mm rounds to the head, water mellon time.

syklops

Captain Chaos is correct. I saw a picture yesterday, but as per this article it seems it is a fake.

Apologies.

However, the Whitehouse has said they may release photos of him to stop the speculation.

TBH, I can see only 4 possible scenarios:

1. He is dead because the US killed him on Sunday
2. He is dead, but died from something else some time ago
3. He is alive but in US custody, never to see the light of day again
4. He is alive and free.

If it was 4, surely he would have released a picture of himself by now smiling and holding yesterdays USA Today "Osama Dead" with a caption underneath "Oh no im not!".

Of 1-3, he is not in control anymore, so thats a win in my book.

Rawhead

syklops wrote: »

But they did release pictures of his corpse.

Wrong thread Mr Corr, back to conspiracy theories for you.

Do you really think the USA are going to give Al Qaeda the PR coup of a lifetime by claiming to have killed OBL and then letting him turn up in a video.

Do you think that George Bush wouldn't have claimed this if he thought he could have gotten away with it?

The only thing that I don't believe is that they buried him at sea. I would be very surprised if his head wasn't placed on the desk in the oval office.

I can't wait till RTE do a program on this in which Charlie Bird recounts how he managed to infiltrate Al Qaeda and kill Bin Laden............

syklops

Rawhead wrote: »

Wrong thread Mr Corr, back to conspiracy theories for you.

Do you really think the USA are going to give Al Qaeda the PR coup of a lifetime by claiming to have killed OBL and then letting him turn up in a video.

Do you think that George Bush wouldn't have claimed this if he thought he could have gotten away with it?

The only thing that I don't believe is that they buried him at sea. I would be very surprised if his head wasn't placed on the desk in the oval office.

I can't wait till RTE do a program on this in which Charlie Bird recounts how he managed to infiltrate Al Qaeda and kill Bin Laden............

Ease down on the hostility there please. Where have I posted a conspiracy theory?

I also pointed out that I made a mistake and apologised.

R P McMurphy

syklops wrote: »

Captain Chaos is correct. I saw a picture yesterday, but as per this article it seems it is a fake.

Apologies.

However, the Whitehouse has said they may release photos of him to stop the speculation.

TBH, I can see only 4 possible scenarios:

1. He is dead because the US killed him on Sunday
2. He is dead, but died from something else some time ago
3. He is alive but in US custody, never to see the light of day again
4. He is alive and free.

If it was 4, surely he would have released a picture of himself by now smiling and holding yesterdays USA Today "Osama Dead" with a caption underneath "Oh no im not!".

Of 1-3, he is not in control anymore, so thats a win in my book.

If he was alive and well for the last ten years I wonder why he chose not to appear on video and only sporadically released audio recordings. Was this to keep people guessing? I would say he is most certainly dead anyway

Rawhead

I think it's a gross insult to the lads who went in a killed that animal to have people saying its a fake.
My only hope is that the piss was running down the inside of his leg when he heard the helicopters and realised that they were coming for him. A bullet to the head was too good for him, pity he wasn't skinned alive.
The memory of people jumping from the towers still sends shivers down my spine.

chiefbrody1974

Rawhead wrote: »

I think it's a gross insult to the lads who went in a killed that animal to have people saying its a fake.
My only hope is that the piss was running down the inside of his leg when he heard the helicopters and realised that they were coming for him. A bullet to the head was too good for him, pity he wasn't skinned alive.
The memory of people jumping from the towers still sends shivers down my spine.

its that mentality that keeps the climate of fear alive and stops the truth getting out. Im not a big conspiracy theory believer but this is blatant climate of fear stuff. Notice the reaction on the news concerning the money markets, and how americans are loving Obama now and how there's an overall "sigh of relief"??? thats the desired affect. they have footage of him being killed, photos of obama and clinton watching, but none on the actual event??? that's like saying, there are definately flying saucers, here's a picture of me watching them, nt the actual flying saucers though,, oooohhh nooooo Im keeping that for myself you have to trust me on this one, he's dead and the U.S.A got hime!!! bull**** of the highest order!! and it's an insult to our intelligience, not most americans cos they believed it!!

OS119

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

they have footage of him being killed, photos of obama and clinton watching, but none on the actual event??? that's like saying, there are definately flying saucers, here's a picture of me watching them, nt the actual flying saucers though,, oooohhh nooooo Im keeping that for myself you have to trust me on this one, he's dead and the U.S.A got hime!!! bull**** of the highest order!!

your idiot rant avoids completly two very important facts: firstly that the US government isn't overly interested in convincing you, it has no interest in you, it doesn't care about your views - or your appalling punctuation or inability to write anything thats easy to read.

secondly that the US is very interested in how this event is accepted/received in the Islamic world - it knows, for instance, that the way it paraded one S. Hussein caused it lots of ill feeling in that part of the world - a population, unlike you, who's veiws are important to it. the US Government has therefore, as it has said, decided to be very cautious about releasing details and images that might cause enormous offence regardless of the political views of those it seeks to persuade.

you will note that the US went to considerable efforts to let the Islamic world know that OBL had been accorded an Islamic burial, rather than rolled out of the back of a C-130 over the Indian Ocean - this is because the observance of such niceties is very important to the wider Islamic culture, and publishing photo's of OBL with his head opened, or even pictures of his burial, would be considered astonishingly offensive to most Muslims, regardless of how much they as individuals hated him or despised his ideology.

you have two ears and one mouth - you should use them in that ratio.

Rawhead

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

its that mentality that keeps the climate of fear alive and stops the truth getting out. Im not a big conspiracy theory believer but this is blatant climate of fear stuff. Notice the reaction on the news concerning the money markets, and how americans are loving Obama now and how there's an overall "sigh of relief"??? thats the desired affect. they have footage of him being killed, photos of obama and clinton watching, but none on the actual event??? that's like saying, there are definately flying saucers, here's a picture of me watching them, nt the actual flying saucers though,, oooohhh nooooo Im keeping that for myself you have to trust me on this one, he's dead and the U.S.A got hime!!! bull**** of the highest order!! and it's an insult to our intelligience, not most americans cos they believed it!!

Should you not be working on a new album Jim? All this time spent on boards is distracting you from your real work, bringing sweet music to the world. Touch on now, good lad

chiefbrody1974

OS119 wrote: »

your idiot rant avoids completly two very important facts: firstly that the US government isn't overly interested in convincing you, it has no interest in you, it doesn't care about your views - or your appalling punctuation or inability to write anything thats easy to read.

secondly that the US is very interested in how this event is accepted/received in the Islamic world - it knows, for instance, that the way it paraded one S. Hussein caused it lots of ill feeling in that part of the world - a population, unlike you, who's veiws are important to it. the US Government has therefore, as it has said, decided to be very cautious about releasing details and images that might cause enormous offence regardless of the political views of those it seeks to persuade.

you will note that the US went to considerable efforts to let the Islamic world know that OBL had been accorded an Islamic burial, rather than rolled out of the back of a C-130 over the Indian Ocean - this is because the observance of such niceties is very important to the wider Islamic culture, and publishing photo's of OBL with his head opened, or even pictures of his burial, would be considered astonishingly offensive to most Muslims, regardless of how much they as individuals hated him or despised his ideology.

you have two ears and one mouth - you should use them in that ratio.

My "Idiot Rants"?? you're obviously a yank!! I also have two middle fingers and one salute, I choose to use them, raised simultaneously in that regard! you should join the multitude of stupid zombie americans who are chanting U.S.A at this very moment, just because they believe everything a black president tells them!! Bloody sheep, the lot of them!!

chiefbrody1974

Rawhead wrote: »

Should you not be working on a new album Jim? All this time spent on boards is distracting you from your real work, bringing sweet music to the world. Touch on now, good lad

ooohhhh save us all mr president. touch on now me hole, ya knob!

syklops

Im going to unfollow this thread. Its turning into crackpot city over here.

Rawhead

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

ooohhhh save us all mr president. touch on now me hole, ya knob!

Have you got any nice pics of Andrea, I'm sure you had a sneaky peak at bath time

USA USA USA

chiefbrody1974

Rawhead wrote: »

Have you got any nice pics of Andrea, I'm sure you had a sneaky peak at bath time

USA USA USA

im hardly jim corr but if that keeps you thinking im offended, then that'll do pig, that'll do!;)

Rawhead

chiefbrody1974 wrote: »

im hardly jim corr but if that keeps you thinking im offended, then that'll do pig, that'll do!;)

What ever you say Jim. Touch on now, they need you over in conspiracy theories, the bilderbergs are making a big announcement on the new world order.

Cuckoo cuckoo

BrianD

RebelSniper wrote: »

As we know Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight in Pakistan yesterday, as we saw with Germany and Hitler in WWII, the leader died and the morale was lost heavily, do yous all think the end of the war against terrorism is coming to an end, or do you think a new, more effective leader could emerge, post your opinions on this news and subject.

The war was lost before Hitler took his life and in any case Germany was in such disarray that most people would not be able to find out if he was alive or otherwise.

Bin Laden was no more than a symbol of Al Queda at this point - defiant but in hiding. It's almost like a franchise now with individual franchises operating in Yemen and other places. These will continue to operate as they were.

Plus it seems that AQ had lost it's influence in many muslim countries that have been challenging their leadership. The revolutionaries seem to be more interested in democracy. However, the ultimate outcomes remain to be seen.

As regards his death, politicians can be economical with the truth but I don't think any president, especially Obama who is on dicey grounds, is going to risk stating publicly that Bin Laden is dead only for him to pop up somewhere else. The only conspiracy theory is that the operation may have been speeded up to give Obama some kudos with the public - the USA got attacked when the Republicans were in charge, couldn't catch the man and now Obama can say "Yes I Did".

chiefbrody1974

Rawhead wrote: »

What ever you say Jim. Touch on now, they need you over in conspiracy theories, the bilderbergs are making a big announcement on the new world order.

Cuckoo cuckoo

touch on now?? ahhhh the former altar boys favourite call to supper!! touch on now buoy!!!! touch on !!!:D

Poccington

Everyone, please continue with what has the potential to be a good, interesting discussion....

Chiefbrody, unless you start actually adding something to the discussion just stay out of it. Anymore nonsense from you and every post you make in this thread will be deleted.

Manic Moran

I'm going to add to that.

For the purposes of the discussion on the military forum, UBL was killed in an operation two days ago. There is already quite enough hypothesising on AH, Pol and CT as to whether or not it really occurred, leave it there until shown otherwise.

NTM

Rawhead

I wonder why delta wasn't used. I know the SEALs aren't confined to maritime roles solely but I don't even think there was a pond near the compound.

ChunkyLover_53

SEAL Team Six or DEVGRU as they are now known are a Counter Terroist Unit

Rawhead

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

SEAL Team Six or DEVGRU as they are now known are a Counter Terroist Unit

I'm aware of that, just wondering why one was chosen over the other. The SEALs are a maritime unit after all.
Wasn't it DEVGRU snipers that shot those Somali pirates a while back.

It is a huge trophy kill for any unit and I am just wondering why the army didn't try and get their own lads involved.

ChunkyLover_53

I'm sure they weren't too far away, I heard on BBC News there was a large force in reserve in case it went tits up.

Plus I suppose someone has to keep tabs on Gaddaffi.

Maratime Unit? Sure didn't they bury him at sea?

Edit: Also Chairman of Joint Chiefs is Admiral Mike Mullen USN, favouritism is also a factor

Poccington

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

I'm sure they weren't too far away, I heard on BBC News there was a large force in reserve in case it went tits up.

Plus I suppose someone has to keep tabs on Gaddaffi.

Maratime Unit? Sure didn't they bury him at sea?

Edit: Also Chairman of Joint Chiefs is Admiral Mike Mullen USN, favouritism is also a factor

Favouritism isn't a factor at all. Mullen would have had no say in what Unit conducted the mission.

DEVGRU operate within JSOC, they're not a maritime unit by any stretch of the imagination. Maritime Ops is just one of their capabilities but not the main focus of their work.

Local-womanizer

Rawhead wrote: »

I wonder why delta wasn't used. I know the SEALs aren't confined to maritime roles solely but I don't even think there was a pond near the compound.

The Seals beat Delta at rock-paper-scissors!

RebelSniper

Remember how SEAL stands for SEa, Air and Land. If they were only Marine based They would be called, SE's?

delos

The event will be a major turning point for Pakistan and I have a horrible feeling that it could collapse into Afghanistan Mk II. I just hope that the security services there are a lot better than they seem to be.

As for OBL - he's very much yesterday's man. Some closure for victims but the world has moved on, particularly so in the last few months. He'll be considered a martyr by some for sure but how significant a player was he in the last year or two?

chiefbrody1974

I think Lee marvin and chuck norris went in with steven seagal and took him out!!!

Jcarroll07

as to why devgru was used and not delta maybe some of the top brass thought they had their chance in 2001 and blew it. (thats just a thought unlikely)

johngalway

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

Maratime Unit? Sure didn't they bury him at sea?

Threw the body out of a helicopter if radio accounts are to be believed this morning.

I hope they done it in the path of the aircraft carrier while they were at it, too good for him.

Local-womanizer

Pakistan are playing a stupid game challenging the US accounts of the raid and criticising the yanks over the raid, he bloody have lived under the Pakistani authorities noses for so many years!

They should put up and shut up, and congratulate a successful operation before the White House get fed up and say what they really think of the Pakistani intelligence agency and its military.

Boulevardier

This may not be the right thread for this question, but why are the SEALs part of the US Navy and not the Marine Corps?

The Marines were set up as an amphibious warfare force, and I would have thought they should have commando-type units such as the SEALs. Are not the Navy therefore doing what should be the USMC's job?

Rawhead

Boulevardier wrote: »

This may not be the right thread for this question, but why are the SEALs part of the US Navy and not the Marine Corps?

The Marines were set up as an amphibious warfare force, and I would have thought they should have commando-type units such as the SEALs. Are not the Navy therefore doing what should be the USMC's job?

The USMC has its own special forces in the Recon Units. They are not tier 1 units though and are mainly conventional warfare as opposed to anti terror.

ChunkyLover_53

Boulevardier wrote: »

This may not be the right thread for this question, but why are the SEALs part of the US Navy and not the Marine Corps?

The Marines were set up as an amphibious warfare force, and I would have thought they should have commando-type units such as the SEALs. Are not the Navy therefore doing what should be the USMC's job?

The SEALs are the modern equivelant to the old Underwater Demolition Teams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_Demolition_Team