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Dancehall music in 1930's Ireland

  • 29-04-2011 9:02am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly what type of music would have been played in the dancehalls in Ireland in 1932 that made the clergy in rural areas try to stamp it out and pontificate during the Lenten Pastorals?

    I can't find a definite answer online. I was thinking Ceili music but someone said swing or jazz and it was this foreign influence that annoyed the church.

    For some reason I can't imagine progressive, eclectic jazz being all the rage in 1930's Ireland but perhaps I'm wrong.

    Does anyone know?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    Don't know about Ireland, but in England, the sort of Jazz that was popular tended to be very watered down and bland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Basically it was anything that brought the opposing sexes into close contact. Which was pretty much everything outside of the strictly codified traditional Irish dancing. So around the time we'd be talking the likes of the foxtrot, the slow waltz, the quickstep, etc. Jazz was obviously railed against but certainly it wasn't the only offender

    Interestingly enough, this attitude was not confined to Ireland. There was an almost simultaneous campaign against such dancing in another equally puritanical state: Stalinist Russia. Here's an extract from a Soviet paper, published in 1928, remarking on the disgraceful youth and their foreign dances:

    "The fox trot was banned. Now in the ballroom, in public at youth parties, the fox trot is danced under the guise of the waltz. When one watches the dancers, one sees what an aroused state they get into. It seems that we can expect nothing from such a waltz but depravity. That is why such waltzes should be forbidden at our parties. Parties are not for debauchery, but for the cultural rest of our youth"

    :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Hi,

    I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly what type of music would have been played in the dancehalls in Ireland in 1932 that made the clergy in rural areas try to stamp it out and pontificate during the Lenten Pastorals?

    I can't find a definite answer online. I was thinking Ceili music but someone said swing or jazz and it was this foreign influence that annoyed the church.

    For some reason I can't imagine progressive, eclectic jazz being all the rage in 1930's Ireland but perhaps I'm wrong.

    Does anyone know?

    Jazz was hugely popular in Ireland in the 1930s. My father had a large collection of jazz records from that time and the jazz movies were all the rage when they came. The Big Band era of Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller etc. was probably the most popular music of the day. The radio - "wireless" - was an important source for that kind of music also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Little Miss Quirky


    I'm doing my masters thesis on dancehalls and based on the Cork experience, Jazz was played in the 1930's, there are dance cards available showing the sets played such as the foxtrot. The lenten pastorals make very interesting reading on the topic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭The Scientician


    This radio documentary about the calls for a jazz ban by clergymen is something I found fascinating, gives insight into the types of music that constituted jazz at the time too. I believe (it's a while since I've listened to it) "jazz" was catchall term for all popular foreign contemporary music.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/jazz.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I love this stuff & anything on "pop" & "retro" is in my bag.

    I did some threads on actors etc & fame (and its probably different to the RTE version of Culture) and on their era the showbands were probably more influential than Sean O'Riada.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Little Miss Quirky


    The scientician is right, jazz was a common phrase for all 'foreign' types of music at the time. Flann OBrien wrote an interesting article on it for The Bell in 1940 and Barbara OConnor did a very informative article on the 1930's dance scene entitled 'sexing the nation' which dealt with her oberservations on the representations of dance in the Leitrim Observer in 1934 (and other publications).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    OK for all you youngsters out there let me introduce you to Ireland of the 1920s and 30s - my parents still had this music around the house years later when I was growing up. The Jazz of Louis Armstrong and Count Basie was all the rage. Louis Armstrong even sang a song called "The Irish Black Bottom" recorded in 1926. The Black Bottom was a hugely popular dance all over the world so this was a tribute to Ireland's jazz craze. I used to see my uncle and my grandmother clowning around doing it. Serious.

    Here it is on YouTube which I found after a long search so I hope I have the URL right -

    Enjoy!!:D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDVFMapK6c

    The words are:

    All you heard for years in Ireland,
    was the "Wearin' Of The Green",
    but the biggest change that's come in Ireland
    I have ever seen.
    All the laddies and the cooies
    laid aside their Irish reels,
    and I was born in Ireland
    (Ha, Ha), so imagine how I feels.

    Now Ireland's gone Black Bottom crazy,
    see them dance,
    you ought to see them dance.
    Folks supposed to be related, even dance,
    I mean they dance.
    They play that strain,
    works right on their brain.
    Now it goes Black Bottom,
    a new rhythm's drivin' the folks insane.

    I hand you no Blarney, when I say
    that song really goes,
    and they put it over with a wow,
    I mean now.
    All over Ireland
    you can see the people dancin' it,
    'cause Ireland's gone Black Bottom crazy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    The Green Scene was happening

    I came accross this link on an e book - check out p285 onwards for about 5 pages and it gives a good insight to the music , personel & instrumentation

    The New York Irish
    By Ronald H. Bayor, Timothy J. Meagher

    http://books.google.ie/books?id=WfCmS90xyEIC&pg=PA487&lpg=PA487&dq=mick+delahunty+orchestra&source=bl&ots=e3Nqui0Wui&sig=T93p3B6kjXkAYedPMmoOguj35zA&hl=en&ei=8CnATY--OoWYhQfE0YypBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=mick%20delahunty%20orchestra&f=false

    It shows how New York influenced Ireland and we improvised.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Films were a huge influence also on social norms. Armstrong was making appearances in movies from the early 30s and they were hugely popular in Ireland. That generation went to the cinema about twice a week and went to the dance halls weekly.

    And that generation could never understand the 'thinness' of the popular music that emerged in the 50s and 60s with guitars. Jazz and the big bands - the clarinet and the brass instrument sounds were what they craved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    LOL -we need a revival
    The History of the Black Bottom

    Entry from May 02, 2009
    Black Bottom (dance)
    Entry in progress—B.P.

    Wikipedia: Black Bottom (dance)
    Black Bottom refers to a dance which became popular in the 1920s, during the period known as the Flapper era.

    The dance originated in New Orleans in the 1900s. The theatrical show Dinah brought the Black Bottom dance to New York in 1924, and the George White’s Scandals featured it at the Apollo Theater in Harlem 1926 through 1927 where it was introduced by dancer Ann Pennington. Jelly Roll Morton, jazz player and composer, wrote the tune “Black Bottom Stomp” with its name referring to Detroit’s Black Bottom area. The dance became a sensation and ended up overtaking the popularity of the Charleston, eventually becoming the number one social dance.

    “The Original Black Bottom Dance” was printed in 1919. It came from an earlier dance called “Jacksonville Rounders’ Dance” printed in 1907. The word “Rounder” was a synonym for “pimp”. Both “dance-songs” were written by black pianist/composer/dancer Perry Bradford and were based on a dance done in Jacksonville, Florida “way back”. One professional dancer stated, “That dance is as old as the hills” The dance was well known among semi-rural blacks across the South. A similar dance with many variations had been commonly used in tent show performances, and “Bradford and Jeanette” had used it as a finale. The dance was featured in the Harlem show Dinah in 1924, and then “The Scandals of 1926”, whereupon it became a national craze.

    Bradford’s version printed along with the sheet music

    . Hop down front then Doodle back, (Doodle means slide)
    . Mooch to your left then Mooch to the right
    . Hands on your hips and do the Mess Around,
    . Break a Leg until you’re near the ground (Break a Leg is a hobbling step)
    . Now that’s the Old Black Bottom Dance

    Instructions for the Mooch are “Shuffle forward with both feet. Hips go first, then feet.”

    Dictionary of American Regional English
    Black Bottom n [Black Negro + bottom n 2] esp SC
    The part of town where Black people live.
    1915 Lit. Digest 51.500/2 Sth, Uncle Mose aspired to the elective office of justice of the peace in the “black bottom” part of town.
    1967-68 DARE (Qu. C35, Nicknames for the different parts of your town or city) Inf GA19, Black Bottom—colored section; SC32, Black Bottom—mostly Negro inhabitants; SC51 Black Bottom—Negro area; (Qu. II25, Names or nicknames for the part of town where the poorer people, special groups, or foreign groups live) Infs GA19, SC32, 54, Black Bottom [where Black people live]



    Here are some easy dance instructions
    The Black Bottom was a well-known dance among semiurban Negro folk in the South long before 1910. Both Henry “Rubberlegs” Williams and Jodie Edwards of the Butterbeans and Susie team are sure that the name came from a Negro section in Atlanta. “That dance is as old as the hills,” says Rubberlegs, “done all over the South—why, I remember doing it myself around 1915.” A similar dance with many variations had been common in earlier tent shows, and before they reached T.O.B.A. in the early teens, Bradford and Jeanette were using it as a finale.

    The Black Bottom became a craze, second only to the Charleston, when it was introduced by Ann Pennington in George WHite’s Scandals of 1926. (Miss Pennington never claimed to have invented it, perhaps because there was truth in the widespread belief that a Negro dancer, Freddie Taylor, taught it to her. “I introduced Ann Pennington to Freddie Taylor. says Mae Barnes,” and she gave him a Cord automobile.") According to Bradford, George WHite saw the dance in a Harlem show, < i=""> (1924), produced by Irving C. Miller, bought it, and hired three white composers to write a song for it. The result was the DeSylva, Brown, and Henderson hit.

    Bradford’s lyrics and the lyrics of DeSylva, Brown, and Henderson contrast sharply. Unlike the later version, Bradford’s directions are explicit:
    Pg. 111:
    Hop down front and then you Doodle back,
    Mooch to your left and then you Mooch to the right
    Hands on your hips and do the Mess Around,
    Break a Leg until you’re near the ground
    Now that’s the Old Black Bottom Dance.

    Now listen folks, open your ears,
    This rhythm you will hear—
    Charleston was on the afterbeat—
    Old Black Bottom’ll make you shake your feet,
    Believe me it’s a wow.
    Now learn this dance somehow
    Started in Georgia and it went to France
    it’s got everybody in a trance
    It’s a wing, that Old Black Bottom Dance.
    <>



    Joe Condullo and pics of the Dancer Stella Doyle doing the Black Bottom



    The Black Bottom even reached Berlin



    But what was the Valencia ????
    NEW YORK, Nov. 6.—The really snappy young men who expect to further their social careers on the ballroom floor this winter will have to know these steps:

    The black bottom.
    The Princeton toddle.
    The St. Louis hop.
    The French tango.
    The Valencia.

    Here is a link to the Big Apple Site where I got the history from

    http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/black_bottom_cake1/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Well done CDfm - great links!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    CDfm wrote: »
    The Black Bottom even reached Berlin
    Not too surprising. As the quintessential modernist sound, jazz, often played by African-Americans bands, really was the sound of Weimar Berlin


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Not too surprising. As the quintessential modernist sound, jazz, often played by African-Americans bands, really was the sound of Weimar Berlin

    You can just imagine a certain Herr AH doing the black bottom , post Weimar was there a pop sound ???



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Ol Adolf would not have been a fan. Jazz and other forms of modern music were thoroughly despised by reactionaries across Europe. They were very much seen as indications of 'moral degeneracy' and wherever there was a successful conservative backlash - Germany, France, Stalinist Russia, etc - jazz and the likes were banned or discouraged. Ireland was unique only in that the state was socially conservative from the outset

    This was particularly true in Germany where in addition to been seen as American (itself sparking fears of 'Americanisation'), jazz also had very strong racial connotations. It was perceived, even by its admirers, of being a product of the 'primitive' 'Negro' who was 'close to nature'. Jazz, along with other products of Weimar's heady and dynamic liberal society, was an obvious target during the Nazi Gleichschaltung. It was discouraged in favour of more 'Germanic' music


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Ol Adolf would not have been a fan. Jazz and other forms of modern music were thoroughly despised by reactionaries across Europe. They were very much seen as indications of 'moral degeneracy' and wherever there was a successful conservative backlash - Germany, France, Stalinist Russia, etc - jazz and the likes were banned ...........It was discouraged in favour of more 'Germanic' music

    Interesting points - Frank Duff and the Legion of Mary put the kaibosh on Monto. Was there are european wide anti-jazz movenent and was there a racist tinge to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Well it wasn't anti-jazz per se. I mean there was, AFAIK, no International Lobby for the Abolition of Modern Music or the like. Rather you have jazz lumped in with new dances, new architecture, new art forms, etc; basically non-traditional arts that the Nazis called entartete Kunst. These all flourished in the 1920s and were prominent expressions (along with socialism, feminism, sexual liberation, consumerism, etc) of the liberal post-war order. This was particularly acute in Germany where the Weimar years saw an incredible blossoming of avant-garde culture

    This all gets caught up in what Detlev Peukert called the 'crisis of modernity'; that is, the clash between the new mass society and the old traditional order. So the reactionary dictatorships of the 1930s, which were a direct response to the liberalism of the inter-war period, tended to emphasise traditional culture and actively suppress the more radical pursuits. This wasn't as marked in Ireland - which was conservative to begin with - but yeah, I'd say that the Church's moral offensives in the 1920s and 30s (along with the rise of the Blueshirts and the like) should be considered in the context of this reactionary wave elsewhere in Europe

    As for racist attitudes to jazz, I don't know if it was marked elsewhere or whether it was a German thing. Certainly a lot of German commentators at the time were very concious of race and the 'dangers' of racial intermingling. Those attitudes long predate the Nazis. That said, many African-Americans who toured Europe during or following the Great War found people to be far more accepting than those at home. Many stayed in Europe as a result


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I found this looking up something else
    “The cocaine of modern music”

    November 22, 2010 by dfallon

    I’ve always been fascinated by the crusade against jazz music in 1920′s and 1930′s Ireland. A piece in the past on aspects of the hidden history of soccer in the capital touched on a GAA convention in 1930 which called for the banning of “jazz dancing”.
    The title of this post comes from an Irish Times report from October 12, 1927. In it, Signor Pietro Mascagni was asked for his opinion on jazz music. “I am for sound in music and against noise” he noted.
    This 1938 piece from The Irish Times is among my favourite finds to date however, coming from June 20. The crusade against jazz was very much alive and well in the capital. Other “inferior music” was also condemned. Mad times.
    jazz.jpg?w=489&h=616
    Still, not everyone in Dublin was scared away. Here’s a 1930 ad for a Dublin music shop advertising stocking “the latest jazz tune” among other things.
    getimage1.png?w=409&h=577
    Give me some time, and I’ll try knock out a piece down the line on jazz in the capital. There’s a fascinating little subculture alright!

    http://comeheretome.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/the-cocaine-of-modern-music/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    This is anecdotal so not sure if it is true but my mother once told me that Bing Crosby's records were banned on Radio Eireann - or a ban was suggested - because his 'crooning' was too sexually suggestive. But knowing the Dublin of my parents and grandparents, they were all into the popular music - jazz, big bands . It was the Gaelic League music that was foreign to them.

    Going back to even earlier years - the operettas and music of Gilbert and Sullivan were on scratchy old records in my grandmother's house and they must have dated to the Great War period or before. Ireland was always clued into the popular music of the day. I have a memory of an old song - 'The man who broke the bank in Monte Carlo' being played on an old gramophone in my great grandparent's house. It sounded like it was recorded in an echo chamber.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Gene Autry played to 80,000 theatre goers in Dublin in Sept 1939
    CDfm wrote: »


    And there were cowboys that were very popular.

    Monday, 5 October 1998 The Independent





    1 SEPTEMBER 1939 is imprinted forever as "the day war broke out", thanks to the immortal broadcasts by the then Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, and the radio comedian Robb Wilton. Three days later Louis Ellman, manager of the Theatre Royal Dublin, cabled a somewhat different news bulletin to the President of Republic Pictures:
    Gene Autry's personal appearance broke all existing box-office records since we opened. Autry played to 80,000 paid admissions. Police records estimate Autry's parade drew on the streets 75,000 people, the largest crowd ever assembled in all Dublin history.
    Clearly the Irish knew what was important in the world of that dark September.
    Gene Autry, billed by his studio as "Public Cowboy Number One", had arrived in London in August 1939, his first ever trip outside his native America. With him, of course, came his horse Champion, a golden Palomino who would in time receive his own television series and signature tune, "Champion the Wonder Horse", sung by the pop star Frankie Laine. But back in 1939 Champion hit his first British headlines when Autry rode him up the steps and into the Savoy Hotel. "Shooting irons must be parked with hats" ran the footnote on the press invitations.

    gene-autry.jpg




    Louis Elmann and the Theatre Royal had Judy Garland of the Wizard of Oz perform - not to sure about Toto

    zdorothy.jpg


    The fourth Theatre Royal opened on September 23, 1935 in Hawkins Street. It was a large art deco building designed for an audience of 3,700 people seated and 300 standing, and was intended for use as both theatre and cinema. It also housed the Regal Rooms Restaurant. The theatre had a resident 25-piece orchestra under the direction of Jimmy Campbell and a troupe of singer-dancers, the Royalettes. From the beginning, the sheer size of the building made it difficult for the Royal to remain economically viable. The policy adopted at first to confront this problem was to book big-name stars from overseas to fill the building. These included Gracie Fields, George Formby, Max Wall, Max Miller and Jimmy Durante. However these shows rarely made a profit.
    In 1936, the Royal was acquired by Patrick Wall and Louis Elliman, who also owned the Gaiety. With the outbreak of the Second World War, Wall and Elliman were forced to keep the two theatres going with native talent only. This led to the emergence of a raft of Irish acts who were to provide the mainstay of the Royal's output for the remainder of its existence. These included such Irish household names as Jimmy O'Dea, Harry O'Donovan, Maureen Potter, Danny Cummins, ((Mike Nolan)), Alice Dalgarno, Noel Purcell, Micheál MacLiammoir, Cecil Sheridan, Jack Cruise and Patricia Cahill. In July 1951 Judy Garland appeared for a series of sold out performances and was received with tremendous ovations. The legendary singer sang from her dressing room window to hundreds of people who were unable to get tickets and critics dubbed her "America's Colleen" She drew the largest crowds up until that time and was only surpassed by the visits to Ireland of United StatesPresidentJohn F. Kennedy and the Pope in the 1960s. Popular Irish American entertainer Carmel Quinn also made her singing debut here during the early 1950s. Under pressure from rising overheads and the increasing popularity of the cinema and the introduction of television, the fourth Theatre Royal, Dublin closed its doors on June 30, 1962.








  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    Hello again,

    Well I should start by saying that the reason I was researching this topic is because I was writing a film script set during this time. Anyways, the script has been shortlisted for a Film Offaly/Filmbase award so more research has to be done because we need to recreate this era. I have one particular question-Where would these dances have taken places? In a community centre/hall or a barn or a hotel?

    Thanks a million for all the helpful replies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I dont know - but Patrick Kavanagh in his poetry mentioned Billy Brennans barn but I think the dancehalls were around since the 1920's and that parish halls were used for dances.

    The musicians were either professional or semi professional.

    Hotels in rural towns were probably not hotels as we know them.

    In the towns you had town halls etc which were rented out .

    So I imagine it will be based on the location (rural or urban) and dont forget the mode of transport was the bicycle.

    If there is a local paper you may get an idea from the advertising of the era if you ask the editor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭builttospill


    CDfm wrote: »
    I dont know - but Patrick Kavanagh in his poetry mentioned Billy Brennans barn but I think the dancehalls were around since the 1920's and that parish halls were used for dances.

    The musicians were either professional or semi professional.

    Hotels in rural towns were probably not hotels as we know them.

    In the towns you had town halls etc which were rented out .

    So I imagine it will be based on the location (rural or urban) and dont forget the mode of transport was the bicycle.

    If there is a local paper you may get an idea from the advertising of the era if you ask the editor.

    Cool, thanks. I'll take all this into consideration.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Cool, thanks. I'll take all this into consideration.

    I found this that gives a flavour for the era "SEXING THE NATION: Discourses of the dancing body in Ireland in the 1930s" and here is an extract and link .

    You had commercial dancehalls, parochial halls and unlicenced venues and legislation was introduced in 1935.

    So depending on your location it could be either and the local parish church may help.

    The court clerk may have details of licences granted -so ask in the local court office.



    Dance and identity construction in the 1930s
    In order to contextualise the discussion it is necessary to give some idea of the political
    and commercial interests that were instrumental in shaping the public meanings of social
    dance at this time. As indicated above, dance had emerged as a significant marker of
    cultural identity and one of the main arenas in which competing discourses on national
    identity was played out. From the 1890s on a canon of ‘authentic traditional’ Irish dance
    (see Brennan, 1994) which came to be known as céilí dance had been established and
    espoused by members of the Roman Catholic clergy, the Gaelic League and other
    culturally nationalist organisations. I have suggested elsewhere (O’Connor, 2003) that
    social dance became a site of cultural struggle between the forces of ‘tradition’ and
    ‘modernity’. Within this framework, céilí dance was perceived as authentic, pure and
    graceful while non-national, or what were commonly referred to as ‘modern’ii or ‘foreign
    dances’, were constructed as ‘other’ (see Foley, 2001). The era was marked, therefore,
    by displays of public concern about appropriate types of dance, duration of dances and
    venues.
    Coterminous with the sustained efforts to promote national dance was the increasing
    popularity of ‘modern’ and ‘foreign’ dances in the form of ballroom and jazziii.
    Opposition to jazz was most notably expressed by the two groups who were promoting
    ‘traditional’ Irish dance - the Catholic clergy and the Gaelic League on the grounds that it
    was both morally indecent and culturally corrupting. However, it is worth noting that
    opposition to jazz was not unique to Ireland and that the negative response here echoed
    those of religious and cultural groups in Britain, mainland Europe and the US (see, for
    4
    example, Back, 1997). The opposition mounted by the Anti-jazz Campaign finally led to
    the Irish government capitulating to their demands by introducing the Dance Halls’ Act
    in 1935 which legislated for the control of public dancing.
    The 1930s also witnessed the commercialisation of social dancing; the demise of house
    dancing (see for example Brennan, 1999; Tubridy, 1994) and the establishment of
    commercial public dance halls. Dancing was a very popular leisure activity in Ireland in
    the 1930s and its commercial potential was becoming increasingly evident. At this stage
    there were two main players involved in the ownership and control of dance halls, the
    Catholic Church through local clergy and commercial owners in the form of
    individual/family enterprises. While commercial interests were ostensibly represented by
    local businessmen and, voluntary interests by Catholic clergy and local community
    groups, in reality he picture is not so clear cut. Commercial and moral interests appear to
    be complexly interwoven. Though more detailed research would be necessary to provide
    a definitive picture, a couple of pertinent observations can be made here. The clergy
    were heavily involved in the building of local parish halls. According to Brennan (1999,
    p. 126) ‘[A]ll over rural Ireland, the clergy organised the construction of parochial halls,
    and thereafter Church and state combined to eliminate the organisation of any dances
    outside these halls’. At least some of the profits would have accrued to local clergy
    personally (eg. repair of parochial houses) or to parish institutions for which they were
    responsible (eg. repair of primary schools). Local/community groups were also dependent
    on the authorisation of the clergy for use of parochial halls for dancing. Whatever the
    intricacies of ownership and control of dance venues, there were now a wider variety of
    indoor venues than heretofore. They included a minority of private houses or outhouses
    5
    such as barns (such venues to be declared illegal on the enforcement of the Dance Halls
    Act), parochial halls with variable flooring, heating, lighting, and sanitation facilities,
    and, commercially owned dance halls with better facilities predominantly, though not
    exclusively, in the bigger urban centres. Though by no means monolithic, a pattern of
    association between venues and types of dance began to emerge. Traditional céilí dances
    tended to be organised in more local and downmarket venues by either clergy or local
    community leaders whereas ‘modern’/ jazz dances were organised in the commercially
    owned dance halls in the bigger towns.
    Newspaper representations of the dance hall space
    Dance references generally appeared in three specific sections of the newspapers. They
    carried advertisements for dances. Dance was also addressed in the local news sections
    (or parish notes) where announcements of upcoming dances and accounts of dances that
    had recently taken place were printed. And finally, there were references to dance in the
    main news pages such as reports from local council meetings and district court
    proceedings. A perusal of these references led to the identification of four main
    discourses two of which represented and were addressed to women, and two of which
    were related exclusively to men. Within these discourses I have categorised the dance
    hall variously as a ‘degenerate space’, as a ‘utopian space’, as a ‘battleground’ and,
    finally, as a space for the construction of local and national identitiesiv.
    The dance hall as ‘degenerate space’
    The dance hall was constructed as both a dangerous and degenerate space for women
    and was expressed mainly in reports of statements from clergy, cultural leaders and, local
    and national politicians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Satts


    I just wanted to mention one of Ireland's ledgendary band leaders, Mick Delahunty from Clonmel, Co.Tipp, who led a Glenn Miller style orchestra.

    He led his first band on Easter Sunday night, 1933 in Cahir, Co. Tipp. and his last at his band's farewell concert in the Greenwood Inn, Ardpatrick, Co. Limerick, 2nd Feb., 1992. At the end of the show Mick went on stage to thank his many patrons and followers and musicians he had over the years, called it a day and left the stage. Directly after coming off the stage he collasped and died a short time later. What a way to go !!

    http://www.iangallagher.com/mickdel.htm


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