Noobie - How to gain tone yet lose weight (guy)

IndieComa

Hi,

Long time reader first time poster would appreciate some help

I currently look similar to this



(hard to get a suitable image)


Yet want to get in shape for the summer

I want to look like this
(guy on left)


or this


So I am torn at the moment, I have started an excercise regime after reading threads on here and do a lot of squats etc.
I'm just in a conflict as I fear I am not eating enough to have the right gains from these, yet I am also quite aware of the fact that I need to shift the softness around my belly and fear that by over-eating and perhaps not working hard enough at the gym I will keep this or put on further weight here.

So is it possible to eat with the intent of losing weight and then cram protein into me before and after I work out or is this counter intuitive?

Should I forget about the weights and do cardio for a month and then get into the weights or the opposite?

I appreciate that I sound clueless from this and I am well aware that many of ye would not agree with my desired body type (but its what I want) so any help would be great

thanks,
IC

Kadongy

IndieComa wrote: »

Hi,

Long time reader first time poster would appreciate some help

I currently look similar to this



(hard to get a suitable image)


Yet want to get in shape for the summer

I want to look like this
(guy on left)


or this


So I am torn at the moment, I have started an excercise regime after reading threads on here and do a lot of squats etc.
I'm just in a conflict as I fear I am not eating enough to have the right gains from these, yet I am also quite aware of the fact that I need to shift the softness around my belly and fear that by over-eating and perhaps not working hard enough at the gym I will keep this or put on further weight here.

So is it possible to eat with the intent of losing weight and then cram protein into me before and after I work out or is this counter intuitive?

Should I forget about the weights and do cardio for a month and then get into the weights or the opposite?

I appreciate that I sound clueless from this and I am well aware that many of ye would not agree with my desired body type (but its what I want) so any help would be great

thanks,
IC

Yes cramming protein and carbohydrate into you before and after you workout and otherwise eating with the intent of losing weight will allow you to build muscle while losing fat.

High insulin levels encourage both muscle growth and fat storage.
Low insulin levels discourage muscle growth and encourage fat to be burned.

What you suggest will have high insulin levels at the optimal times for encouraging muscle growth, boosting hormone production etc, while otherwise keeping them low to encourage fat loss.

Going for a lot of walks will help burn fat too.

Best of luck.

IndieComa

Kadongy wrote: »

Yes cramming protein and carbohydrate into you before and after you workout and otherwise eating with the intent of losing weight will allow you to build muscle while losing fat.

High insulin levels encourage both muscle growth and fat storage.
Low insulin levels discourage muscle growth and encourage fat to be burned.

What you suggest will have high insulin levels at the optimal times for encouraging muscle growth, boosting hormone production etc, while otherwise keeping them low to encourage fat loss.

Going for a lot of walks will help burn fat too.

Best of luck.

Thanks for that advice,

would you really reccommend brisk walks ahead of runs for losing flaab?
I am not overtly interest in being fit in cardio terms just dont know the best weigh of being effective

gant0

Run a calorie deficit while also hitting the weights and taking in plenty of protein.Stay away from long low intensity cardo and focus on high intensity. e.g jog 1 min sprint 30s jog 1 min etc etc for a certain period of time.I'm kind of in the same boat as you but all I'm really looking to do is lose fat since I'm happy enough with bulk for now.

cc87

I think you should just tidy up your weights program and work hard at it.

Losing weight is savage and all but if you have no muscle under there you will not be able to achieve your desired body type.


Post up your diet and training programme, listen to the advice you get and implement it.

A brisk walk will do nothing for you in terms of losing fat or gaining muscle,all it will really do is make you an awesome brisk walker.

Kadongy

The logic behind suggesting going for walks is that fat is used as a primary energy source during low intensity exercise like this.
When you train at a high intensity to raise your pulse very high, you will use whatever you can as an energy source, including cannibilising muscle.

What is the rationale behind avoiding low intensity exercise, and focusing on interval training?

Mellor

If you look like the first guy you need to put on some muscle not lose weight.

Kadongy wrote: »

When you train at a high intensity to raise your pulse very high, you will use whatever you can as an energy source, including cannibilising muscle.

You won't go catabolic from a bit of HIIT. Your body will use glycogen, dietry fat, and body fat before it starts to turn to muscle. If the OP has little muscle mass, the body is even less likely to turn to that.

Spunge

Lift heavy weights, count your calories, eat enough protein, do some cardio.

jive

If you look like the top pic I would advice losing weight very slowly. The above pic has very little body mass and if you lose weight too quickly you will end up looking like a patient (serious). Make sure to have a decent weights routine and do the cardio of your choice. I'd suggest either low intensity or HIIT. Pick your poison, both are effective. This will help you 'tone'

gant0

Kadongy wrote: »

What is the rationale behind avoiding low intensity exercise, and focusing on interval training?

this has been pointed out a lot but have you ever seen a ripped marathon runner??(or speed walker:D).Theres a reason sprinters have a lot more muscle.

cc87

Kadongy wrote: »

The logic behind suggesting going for walks is that fat is used as a primary energy source during low intensity exercise like this.
When you train at a high intensity to raise your pulse very high, you will use whatever you can as an energy source, including cannibilising muscle.

What is the rationale behind avoiding low intensity exercise, and focusing on interval training?

Your body isnt stupid its not going ignore all the readily available energy sources like carbs and fat and decide to start chowing down on muscle instead

Yes low intensity burns fat more than carbs but the OP has little fat to burn anyway. Plus the fact that an hour walking will burn 100 calories at most, and thats being generous. With maybe 60/70% of these from fat.

High intensity intervals, lets says close to 200 calories in 20 mins work, maybe 30/40% fat, thats about 70 calories from fat. Add in the raised metabolism that intervals causes afterwards and you will be pushing over the 100 calories mark easily enough.

So thats more calories burned,a better training effect, all in a shorter time.

Yes i am just making these figures up but they arent going to be too far off the mark.

Hanley

gant0 wrote: »

this has been pointed out a lot but have you ever seen a ripped marathon runner??(or speed walker:D).Theres a reason sprinters have a lot more muscle.

This is the biggest bullsh*t argument ever.

Sprinters are muscular because they train with weights with the intent of gaining size and strength because it makes them better sprinters. They’re not muscular because they do HIIT. Correlation versus causation, people.

Marathoner runners are skinny because the lighter they are, the better their times are. Additional muscle mass will do very little, if anything, of benefit for them. Once they’re strong enough to avoid injury, that’s their needs taken care of.

There’s another dirty little secret about why sprinters are more muscular… genetics. The bigger more explosive guys will gravitate towards sprinting while their lighter framed guys with higher lactate thresholds go to long distance running. Very simply put, sprinters are big and muscular because that’s what they’re destined to be. Marathon runners are the opposite because that’s what they’re predisposed to. The average person doesn’t lie at either end of that genetic spectrum.

Lots of bodybuilders do long light intensity cardio and are massive and ripped. I’m gonna wait for people to go to steroids now and say they’re the reason they’re shredded - but the simple fact of the matter is kcal deficit + high levels of activity = fat loss.

People talk about HIIT because it’s sexy and in vogue. It’s effective too – EPOC etc etc, but you need to manage the workload to ensure you’re recovering effectively. This is especially important when you’re running a big kcal deficit.

I can’t see pics, and I don’t know training history. But if the OP is pretty overweight and hasn’t trained before, recommending HIIT straight off the bat is retarded.

boomtown84

OP- if you look like that dude from skins you have fook all fat to lose so don't worry about counting calories.
your diet is probably not the best so you just need to start eating the right foods.
you will need to eat a lot of food to properly recover from the squats etc.

get a good weights program from a trainer in your gym and hit the weights HARD at least 3 days a week....eat 4 meals a day.eat a good chunk(fist sized) of protein with every meal(chicken fillet/beef/eggs/fish...etc etc) eat a good chunk(fist and a half) of carbs(whatever you like/agrees with you) with every meal too.

if you want to be healthy at the same time eat a goood chunk of veg with every meal and snack on fruit/nuts.
drink plenty of water.
if you want a stimulant for before your workout drink coffee.
if you find it difficult to eat protein 4 times a day buy a protein shake.

don't over complicate things....as a beginner you will easily lose the fat and build muscle simultaneously.you WILL like what you see in the mirror in 3 months time.

btw if you like running-run,if you like cycling-cycle.....it will not hinder your results and is great for your heart and lungs.just mix it up so you don't get bored....long/ish cycle or run one day and short sprints the next day....no reason to stick to one type.
also....learn to warmup and stretch properly-loads of info here!!

best of luck but most importantly....just enjoy it!

davyjose

Is that guy wearing calvin Kleins under his swimming togs?

Anyway, my advice would be to get under a bar -- squat, bench, lots of ab work, pull-ups. Keep up the protein intake, and watch the rest of the diet.

If you're like the first guy, you're a blank enough canvas, and there's no reason you can't get in pretty good shape relatively quickly.

IndieComa

Thank you everyone for the advice.

It has given me great belief that I can do this and I can, I am already seeing results and feel better

Whether I will be able to achieve the results I want by the summer is another thing but progress is progress

My appproach I guess from this is to eat four meals a day, realistically most days there will be protein in 3 of them (Il try my best for breakfast) I will take a protein shake before and after I work out, on the days I don't work out I will eat something like steak and veg for my dinner, without potatoes maybe some sweet potatoe.
Lunch will be meat veg and some carbs, at 4pm il have something like chicke salad with quinoi

Areas where I struggle are - should I have a protein shake for breakfast? if so what days and the same for night? could this cause me to put on weight if I havent worked out hard enough, and the days i dont work out should i go to bed hungry or have a healthy snack close before bed?

Also I smoke, maybe 3 a day how big an impact will this have?

here to be trained

IndieComa wrote: »

should I have a protein shake for breakfast? if so what days and the same for night? could this cause me to put on weight if I havent worked out hard enough

Why do you think you need to have any type of protein shake at all? I dont get all this fussing and fretting over how much protein shakes lads think that they "need" to drink? Eat a good diet which includes protein i.e. fish, chicken etc and there really is no need for these protein shakes...really i think lads think it looks cool to be walking out of the gym with a protein shake in 1 hand....most of the time these lads are not muscular because they just dont know how to do a proper workout and think that by drinking protein shakes they will build muscle!!! Rant over!!

IndieComa

here to be trained wrote: »

Why do you think you need to have any type of protein shake at all?

I guess just as my friends have been suggesting it so much, thats why I came here with my questions.

Let myself down with the diet today had a takeaway for dinner,
my justification was I was sore (arms and shoulders from the day before) and was planning a big squash session which I just finished so hopefully it wont do too much damage,
had a protein shake after and will get back in line with the food again

My legs are wrecked already walking tomorrow may not be fun

IndieComa

today legs weren't half as bad as I thought, maybe I can push them further?

any remarks on my last few qeustions?

IndieComa

I just did some arm and shoulders work after coming home after two pints

Despite only having two I was a bit tipsy, how silly was this? will the alcohol ruin any progress or may I have salvaged something and it wont be a step backwards at least, i had a protein shake after

Tigger

well the alcohol will boost yer insulin so thats a good thing
but i'm pretty sure you shouldn't make a habit of it

IndieComa

Tigger wrote: »

well the alcohol will boost yer insulin so thats a good thing
but i'm pretty sure you shouldn't make a habit of it

yeah I certainly wont just didnt want to have a wasted day when i didn't need the recovery

IndieComa

too tired to do anything today, have been eating a lot of protein today no carbs since 4pm

IndieComa

Went out last night which meant two days down the train, will get back on it tomorrow

boomtown84

IndieComa wrote: »

Went out last night which meant two days down the train, will get back on it tomorrow

who cares!start a log.

newmug

boomtown84 wrote: »

who cares!start a log.

Bloody hell, give the lad a break! Did you see the very first word in the title of the thread?

OP fair play to ye! Wish I could motivate myself to do what you're doing, I'm in lapsed Catholic fitness territory at the moment!

Hanley

IndieComa wrote: »

I have uploaded a picture,

mainly to shame myself into keeping up the work and post one in a couple of weeks/months when the situation may be improved.

I've seen worse. You've a decent starting point!

IndieComa

Hanley wrote: »

I've seen worse. You've a decent starting point!

thanks for the input, do you think if i push on with the weights i will lose the flabiness as well after seeing that pic?