The Cycle Lane Thread

mackeire

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

ednwireland

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

oh god no

TinyExplosions

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

Glass, pedestrians, parked cars are 3 of the main reasons.

cython

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

Now you've gone and done it....


As was already mentioned though, there are a few reasons for this, and to add to those already stated, I'll say substandard maintenance (e.g. potholes and street sweeping) and frequently nonsensical design of cycle lanes/paths too.

Icyseanfitz

simply put the things are dangerous and are looked after even less than the roads which means not at all

mcmoustache

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

Some reasons have been given in this thread but I'll add a few:

Pedestrians like to stray into them at short notice.

Motorists like to creep into them with their bonnet when joining the road from the left. Same idea with residential areas where cars pull out of driveways onto the lane on the footpath.

Motorists use them as car parks.

You can't easily do a right turn in a cycle lane.

Left turning vehicles might not see you.


This has been done to death here so I'll leave it here for now. There are a few threads in here on the subject if you want to get more reasons. The general consensus is that cycle-lanes are death-traps.

dave.obrien

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

Yes, there are many reasons, all of them are good, and most of them are either perfectly legal or else in the process of becoming law. In most cases you'll probably also find it's that cyclists insist on not using particular sections of cycle facilities, and then you'd have to ask yourself why is it that a large group of people would refuse to use a facility? Is there something wrong with the cyclists? Do they not realise this facility has been provided for them? Are they just ignorant? Or is there something that I'm not seeing form the car? Is there, perchance, something wrong with the facility?

Is there any reason you ask in this thread where the circumstance mentioned was regarding a road which did not have a cycle lane?

Also, while the buses have bus lanes, many times buses will enter other lanes to avoid obstacles, to make turns, to overtake or to avoid stretches of road that are too bad to drive in. No motorist seems to be bothered by this, act irately, beep at them, cut them off, and generally make eejits of themselves, which a tiny minority are more than willing to do if it's a cyclist. Any reason for this?

poppylady

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

I'm glad you asked this question because I was one of those who couldn't understand why the cyclists never used the cycle lanes. In fact it really annoys me when they insist on using the road when theres a perfectly good designated lane for them to use - but now I know, so sorry cyclist if I had a go.

However, is it legal for them to cycle three abreast?

rp

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

Reason #1 : 30% increase likelihood of death or injury
Reason #2 : Often it is illegal to cycle there (not legally cycle lanes)
Reason #3 : Increased journey times
Reason #4 : Contention with pedestrians
Reason #5 : Poor surfaces cause punctures, damage

Lemag

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

No reason

dave.obrien

poppylady wrote: »

I'm glad you asked this question because I was one of those who couldn't understand why the cyclists never used the cycle lanes. In fact it really annoys me when they insist on using the road when theres a perfectly good designated lane for them to use - but now I know, so sorry cyclist if I had a go.

However, is it legal for them to cycle three abreast?

I think what frustrates cyclists, and certainly it's the thing that frustrates me, is hte assumption that all cycle lanes are "perfectly good". They really are not, some of them are death traps! The ones that are good tend to get used, the ones that are not tend not to, it's fairly simple that way! The important thing to remember is that in almost all circumstances, the cyclist has every legal right to be on the road, and in some of the remaining circumstances where they are not, the government has long since committed to changing that so thet they are (although many will be quick to point out that while they have committed to changing that, they still have not done so, after what, 2 years?!)

Regarding 3 abreast, no, not allowed, although a provision is made for when cyclists who are two abreast are overtaking a slower moving cyclist, and then may only do so when it is safe to do so and will not obstruct oncoming traffic.

Chips Lovell

From the National Cycle Policy Framework, published by the government in 2009:

15.4 Mandatory Use Regulation

We will revoke the Statutory Instrument that requires cyclists
to use cycle tracks where they are provided - Road Traffic
(Traffic and Parking) Amendment Regulations, S.I. No. 274 (1998).

This regulation is unsatisfactory for a number of reasons:
(i) it is clear that the cycling infrastructure that has been constructed
to date is often of a poor standard and is poorly maintained, and
cyclists are required to use it;
(ii) it can force cyclists to be on cycle tracks and (when they are planning
on continuing straight ahead) to be on the inside of left-turning
vehicles, including Heavy Goods Vehicles;
(iii) if a group of cyclists (on a weekend cycle for example) is using a road
with an off-road cycle-track alongside it, then they are required to use
it – which is not practicable.

Leo Varadkar recently confirmed that he will be abolishing the mandatory use law shortly.

Chips Lovell

New thread split off, as it was off-topic for the discussion it was launched in.

Jawgap

mackeire wrote: »

quick question. Not trying to start an arguement here but just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the dangerous cycle path. I mean motorists drive on the road, buses drive in bus lanes, pedestrians walk on the path but cyclists refuse to use the cycle lane. Any reason for this??

FYP.

I use cycle lanes etc all the time but only when it's safe and prudent to do so. If the choice is between a poorly maintained, rarely cleaned strip of tarmac and a marginally better maintained and cleaned stretch of tarmac, I'll opt for the latter.

bcmf

There is a cycle lane not far from where I live. I dont use it. Why? Because its in the middle of nowhere.
On the link its on the right hand side of the right hand lane of the R132. You can just make it out
could it be the most useless cycle lane. Or in fact the most dangerous as it ends and leads you into the path of oncoming traffic
http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=The+Five+Roads,+County+Fingal&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=6.160217,13.952637&ie=UTF8&geocode=FSQdMQMdskGh_w&split=0&hq=&hnear=The+Five+Roads,+County+Fingal&ll=53.552582,-6.2097&spn=0.001498,0.003406&t=h&z=18

ednwireland

things like this

Doughiska Road, Galway.

i'm not in galway (and thankfully there are very few cycle paths up here) so dont have to worry but the few i have used round here tend to be terrible

the only place i've cycled where i did use them regularly was when i was a student in nottingham, segregated, cleaned, and even traffic light sensors that worked on a cyclist stopping on them (they are probably rubbish now as that was 20 years ago)

seamus

Pictorial demonstration of just one example. My father-in-law expressed his exasperation one day about cyclists going outbound on the Templeogue road. See, there's a cycle lane up to a point, then cyclists are directed to go to a different cycle lane and off the N81. He couldn't understand why cyclists ignored the sign to follow the cycle lane and instead stayed on the now-narrowed Templeogue Rd, holding him up and putting themselves at risk.

Image 1: The cycle lane on the N81. It's not great, too narrow and littered with debris and grates, but could be much worse.



Image 2: As you come up the road, you see this sign, directing cyclists off the main road. Clearly you can see the lines showing that the cycle lane goes left and the N81 does narrow there. So seems like a reasonable compromise.




Image 3: As you get closer, you realise the reality. You are being directed off the road, the cycle lane mysteriously ends, and the direction of travel and the nature of the turn means that you are now going to the wrong way around the roundabout. To add insult to injury, you are expected to make a 90 degree turn up a kerb (it's small but it's still a kerb). If you actually wanted to go the legal way around the roundabout, you have to basically make a 180-degree turn.



The road that you are directed onto (Rathdown Drive) is in a very poor condition and is less safe than the narrower Templeogue road.

This is not an extreme or rare example of poor cycle lanes. This is one of the milder examples which are littered everywhere.

petethedrummer

You can browse through this thread and the flickr group:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055429177

Or better still, go for a cycle see how you get on. Preferably a cycle where you actually have to get somewhere and not a 5 mile an hour ramble.

petethedrummer

Some of my favorites
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919706@N08/3767425464/in/pool-dublincyclelanes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919706@N08/3934493235/in/pool-dublincyclelanes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919706@N08/3760228750/in/pool-dublincyclelanes

Why wouldn't you use these?

Doctor Bob

el tonto wrote: »

Leo Varadkar recently confirmed that he will be abolishing the mandatory use law shortly.

Any source for this?

petethedrummer

mackeire wrote: »

I mean motorists drive on the road,

...and in cycle lanes

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919706@N08/3759350361/in/pool-dublincyclelanes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919706@N08/3760151440/in/pool-dublincyclelanes

This isn't even challenging to defend any more, has anyone got a barrel of fish I can shoot?

unionman

mackeire wrote: »

...just want to know why cyclists refuse to use the cycle path.

Same reason a person in need of relief would not use this facility.

.

Beasty

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Any source for this?

Check here

Iwannahurl

Sigh.

Because most Irish "cycle lanes" and "cycle paths" have no meaning in life.

Because I hate the effin sight of most of them.

Because I'd rather stick broken glass in my eyes than cycle on some of them.

Because I have some self respect as a cyclist.

Because I've been in Denmark and the Netherlands and I know how it should be done.

Because.

Because.

Because.

Cookie_Monster

unionman wrote: »

Same reason a person in need of relief would not use this facility.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/solopro4/DIRTY_TOILET_001.jpg.

I've seen worse tbh

But as the photos and links show most cycle lanes here are just an embarrassment at best and downright dangerous at worst.

One like the Galway example above only makes motorists think they always have right of way too, so they just cut across you regardless. Nearly got flattened by a left turning dummy on the N11 on Sunday, where I clearly had the right of way across a driveway...
The road is safer

petethedrummer

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Because.

Because.

Because.

The wonderful wizard of oz. That third link is pure genius.

Cookie_Monster

petethedrummer wrote: »

The wonderful wizard of oz. That third link is pure genius.

Indeed.

I mean who

1) thinks of it
2) draws it up
3) approves it
4) H&S passes it (it is the UK after all)
5) builds it

all without noticing it's insanely stupid and pointless

tomasrojo

petethedrummer wrote: »

The wonderful wizard of oz. That third link is pure genius.

This is remarkable too. The Facility of the Month people ironically suggested that it inspired Doughiska Road.

petethedrummer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

1) thinks of it
2) draws it up
3) approves it
4) H&S passes it (it is the UK after all)
5) builds it

Having being involved with many an engineering project, it does not matter how useles the end product is once project milestones are hit. You do not deviate from the plan, no matter how stupid the plan is.

I bet it looks excellent on the project manager's Gantt chart.

Lawrence1895

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Glass, pedestrians, parked cars are 3 of the main reasons.

...and motorists driving on the cycle track, just because they want to turn left at the next set of traffic lights, even if it's miles ahead of them

Doctor Bob

Beasty wrote: »

Check here

Thanks, though as noted in that thread by tomasrojo and monument, it's hardly a firm commitment; it is, in fact, almost a verbatim reiteration of the last response to a similar query.

Bunnyhopper

el tonto wrote: »

Leo Varadkar recently confirmed that he will be abolishing the mandatory use law shortly.

Best news I've heard in ages.

Anyone who wants to know why cyclists don't use cycle lanes/tracks/etc. just needs to get a bike, head out and spend some time trying to use the darn things.

Whitehawk

too busy to read all the posts but i just want to point this out as a cycling person and someone who has a car!

Some peoples cycle in these lanes the wrong way on the road!! i mean by this they cycle opsite to the cars in that lane !! Im sure some people here have seen this.. or done this ¬¬ !! And will agree its mad crazy as its very off putting as a driver to have a bike come at you on the wrong side of the road when your moveing as speed!!

eoghan84

Hey guys from the above comments, its all very well put about how cycle lanes are really poor at some places. I totally agree and the links to photos are all very good

Bunnyhopper

Whitehawk wrote: »

Some peoples cycle in these lanes the wrong way on the road!! i mean by this they cycle opsite to the cars in that lane !!

It is indeed a well-known and maddening phenomenon, so much so that it has a name - the bike salmon.

Mint Sauce

The majority of pedestians see them as an extention to the pavement, or dont even see the markings at all.

A very small minority of scooter/motor bike riders thinks they can use them.

Cars undertake into them and park in them, even if they are seperated by a solid white line.

Thet are usally littered with debrees and broken glass.

Alot of them mysteriously end and start in the oddest of places.

I will alot sooner ride in the road. For the amount of wits and awareness you need to keep on the main road, you need more using a cycle path.

Coronal

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

It is indeed a well-known and maddening phenomenon, so much so that it has a name - the bike salmon.

There are also contra-flow bike lanes, which can be quite useful. There's one at Custom House Quay in Dublin, for example. More common in other countries, I believe.

Whitehawk

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

It is indeed a well-known and maddening phenomenon, so much so that it has a name - the bike salmon.

lol the the bike salmon i luv it!!

Bunnyhopper

Coronal wrote: »

There are also contra-flow bike lanes, which can be quite useful. There's one at Custom House Quay in Dublin, for example. More common in other countries, I believe.

There are legit ones, Andrew's Street is another one, I think. Is that one at CHQ the one around the back of the Custom House - seems to be more often used with-flow (i.e., still the wrong way)? There's no pleasing some people

Coronal

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

There are legit ones, Andrew's Street is another one, I think. Is that one at CHQ the one around the back of the Custom House - seems to be more often used with-flow (i.e., still the wrong way)? There's no pleasing some people

I'm not sure if there's one there as well, but the one I'm thinking of crosses the bridge. You know, the one where pedestrians use the cycle lane to walk with the traffic without looking behind them :P

Iwannahurl

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/harlow-dismounts.jpg

This is remarkable too. The Facility of the Month people ironically suggested that it inspired Doughiska Road.

Thanks for posting that particular pic. One of my all-time favourites on CFM. Their captions are often mini-masterpieces of irony too.

We should have a dedicated Irish version, IMO.

Iwannahurl

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

There are legit ones, Andrew's Street is another one, I think. Is that one at CHQ the one around the back of the Custom House - seems to be more often used with-flow (i.e., still the wrong way)? There's no pleasing some people

Eh? There's only one kind of contra-flow cycle lane, and that's a legit one.

Anything else is either (a) muppetry and laziness or (b) annoying, dangerous but quite possibly understandable adaptation by some cyclists.

Next time you spot one of these bike salmon looking like a fish out of water, check whether there are any crap cycling "facilities" or other cycle-hostile infrastructure such as a roundabout or convoluted one-way system that might have led them astray.

bungler

Hi all,

This is not a troll post or anything like it before anyone jumps down my throath.

I live in Dublin and this is becoming quite an issue and just wanted to see if i could find out why some cyclists dont use the lanes provided for them.

Last night i was driving on a main road in the bus lane as cars are allowed after 7pm. While driving, a guy on a bike was in the bus lane and right beside him is a huge cycle lane but he opted to cycle on the road. Without warning he decided to swerve right out in front of me which cause me to jam on and nearly cause an accident. After the traffic went passed me i asked him to stop and i asked him why doesnt he use the cycle lane provided and he went into a rant about all drivers are scum and i should have been more careful, fair enough if he thinks that but why not use the lane that was basically made to keep him safe.

This is getting quite common in Dublin and i wanted to know why do a huge amount of cyclists use the road when there is a great cycle lane right beside them?

As i said this isnt me having a go, i just feel that its safer if cyclists use the lane made for them and keep yourselves safe

TinyExplosions

Many many reasons outlined in many many posts here, try the search option.

To get you started though:

Often they are in terrible condition, full of glass etc (which isn't always apparent to a motorist)
Cyclists are allowed to use the road too, and many choose to do so

niceonetom

FAQs - why not read them?

thebouldwhacker

I use good ones however many are puncture lanes with all the rubbish, glass and road debris scattered onto them. Also quite often their lay out is eccentric to say the least, they follow footpads and so you lose any right of way at cross roads etc. They are often blocked by cars, buses etc and are generally a pain in the ass. Its like having a Sligo boreen which hasn't been tared since the brits owned it beside a shiny new motorway. They are fine for the casual cyclist piddling about but are a quite often a pain if you actually want to travel anywhere.
As for they guys reaction, he's just a prick on a bike, we're not all like that.

Planet X

It's like, why do buses and cars drive in cycling lanes. Not being smart either, but I commute every day and I get buses and cars and taxis in cycle lanes going through Donnybrook.
Why is that?

Lemag

Have a brief read of this.

CianRyan

I use them when they're safe to use but if the road is in a better condition to the cycle path I'll opt for the road.

Cycle paths in Dublin are horrid, full of debris and drains, these are deadly when they're wet.

The cyclist shouldn't have cut out infront of you but he had no reason not to be on the road.

My two cents anyway.

zathan

The only cycle lanes just about usable are those that are on road, all of the other cycle lanes are poorly designed - for example cycle lanes that run parallel to footpaths are usually full of grit due to lack of cleaning, invariably pedestrians are walking on them as well, also motorists exiting their driveways or other entrances do so without regard for cyclists or for that matter pedestrians. Many cycle lanes are very bumpy or up and down due large number or entrances - take for example the cycle lane on the Leopardstown Road. Many are full of obstructions - lamp posts/traffic lights or run through pedestrian crossing areas or bus stops. The multitude of problems with cycle lanes in Ireland goes on and on!

mal1

Planet X wrote: »

It's like, why do buses and cars drive in cycling lanes. Not being smart either, but I commute every day and I get buses and cars and taxis in cycle lanes going through Donnybrook.
Why is that?

We were talking about this in work the other morning and I was told that this should only happen when the cycle lane is on the road with a broken white line which allows cars enter it if it is clear to do so. I'm not so sure that this is always the case.