Rear Wheel Drive in icy condidtions ?

Delancey

In a recent thread here a poster mentioned that a relative had great difficulty in driving her rear wheel drive car in the bad winter weather some months back.
Some people said that the problem lay with the driver - what are the tricks / skills / techniques needed to avoid this problem ? A friend of mine ( serious petrol head btw ) living in a rural area had his car laid up for several weeks over the bad weather and could only use his OH's Megane to get to work.
As an aside does Rear Wheel Drive offer any advantages over front wheel drive ?

alias no.9

Weight over the driven wheels aids traction, but so does knowing that less is more when it comes to the right foot (on both pedals). I had little difficulty in a rwd auto S202 Mercedes, except for fools in other cars who hadn't a clue what they were doing.

CiniO

Delancey wrote: »

A friend of mine ( serious petrol head btw )

had his car laid up for several weeks over the bad weather

Above two seems to contradict each other

TrailerBob

For performance cars rear wheel drive is far better as the driven wheels are pushing the car, not pulling and are separate to the steering wheels, which vastly improves stability and handling.
But in ice its not worth a damn as engines, therefore weight, tends to be in the front, reducing downward pressure and grip. Tail wants to wag the dog at any chance. The only exception I know of was the old VW Beetle, with engine over the driven wheels.

Delancey

CiniO wrote: »

Above two seems to contradict each other

Yeah , he would be far more of a ' car type ' then me but nonetheless found his car undriveable

Tea 1000

There are posters on here who'll try to convince you that they are suitably armed with such driving skill that they can eliminate all difference between front and rear wheel drive cars in ice and snow.
That is just incorrect, no one can. But as said, the weakest link is the driver, after that there are big disadvantages to RWD in severe conditions. Further compounded by the fact that many newer RWD cars have ever wider tyres, like 255's on a E90, which is not all that heavy, leading to frig all grip no matter who is behind the wheel. It's possible to make progress, but not easy.
Also, some posters here may not have had the same conditions as others, therefore over applauding themselves when they managed to get around while others didn't. There is such a thing as some snow being slippier than other snow!

Gary ITR

Winter tyres and some ballast will get you through out bad weather.

TrailerBob

Onkle wrote: »

Winter tyres and some ballast will get you through out bad weather.

Or a landcruiser:D

jaffa20

Delancey wrote: »

Yeah , he would be far more of a ' car type ' then me but nonetheless found his car undriveable

It wouldn't be undriveable but if he had the choice of the OH's megane over a rwd then the megane would be safer in ice. I had a few dodgy moments in my mx5 on ice but still managed ok. Winter tyres would help though.

unkel

Delancey wrote: »

In a recent thread here

Re-read that thread

Sandbags in the boot is a cheap ad-hoc solution, winter tyres will give you better traction in a RWD car than normal (summer) tyres in a FWD car. Problem solved!

Or be as thick and ignorant as can be and just change your car for a FWD one

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

Or be as thick and ignorant as can be and just change your car for a FWD one

In fairness for most "normal" cars FWD is a better solution. Handling is more predictable for the most part, and the drivetrain is more compact and arguably there is less to go wrong.

I suspect the main selling point for RWD is brand differentiation, although there are obviously cars where FWD would make no sense (M3's... 928's...)

alias no.9

jaffa20 wrote: »

It wouldn't be undriveable but if he had the choice of the OH's megane over a rwd then the megane would be safer in ice. I had a few dodgy moments in my mx5 on ice but still managed ok. Winter tyres would help though.

Just another thought, he may have thought the best way to keep his other half off the road and safe was to take her car. Alternatively, he may have been happy to leave a few dents in her car but not in his own pride and joy. People can have all kinds of ulterior motives.

Senna

RWD's are grand if your on a quiet road with only your own car to deal with. But as we all know, at the worst possible time someone infront of you will do something stupid and cause you to stop on a slope, its then that RWD's are a curse.
I drove a MR2 in ice and snow on numerous occasions, never too much trouble, but i'd take a FWD or 4x4 in ice if i had the choice of cars.

savagecabbages

In the WRC the snow & ice events like Sweden are obviously dominated by 4WD cars since the early 80s, but previous to that the FWD Saabs seemed to be able to compete against (and often beat) the much more powerful RWD offerings from Ford, Fiat Vauxhall et al.
Its down to traction having the weight over the wheels vs the engine at one end and drive at the other... The RWD successes on snow & ice are the Porsche 911 and Lancia Stratos which had their engines over the drive wheels.

ShadowHearth

Last winter we had 2 red cars in the household.

Skyline gad no trouble with this bad weather. It was going like tank. Weight and LSD helped it alot! In fact I had su much fun this winter! Free drifting lol.

Mazda mx5 was different story thought.. It's rwd too, but it had alot of trouble. It had LSD too, but it didn't helped. Problem was. The lightness and short wheel base. I could drive up small hill in front of the house with skyline without even noticing, but to mx5 it was impossible...

I love rwd cars, but in icy/snowy conditions without winter tyres it's a disadvantage.

bijapos

I lived for a few years abroad, experienced some brutal winters and always drove RWD. First thing you need are winter tyres, I can't emphasise this enough, doesn't matter if you're FWD, RWD or 4WD, its winter tyres, not the all season mix or summer tyres we have here.
Along with this I had a 30kg box of sand/grit and a 30kg box of salt in the boot. Gave some weight over the rear axle which gave traction and was also useful for spreading on some dodgy spots.

Joe 90

TrailerBob wrote: »

For performance cars rear wheel drive is far better as the driven wheels are pushing the car, not pulling and are separate to the steering wheels, which vastly improves stability and handling.
But in ice its not worth a damn as engines, therefore weight, tends to be in the front, reducing downward pressure and grip. Tail wants to wag the dog at any chance. The only exception I know of was the old VW Beetle, with engine over the driven wheels.

Well, in mine the engine is behind my shoulders, weight distribution 40 fron 60 rear.:)

JimmyCrackCorn

Delancey wrote: »

In a recent thread here a poster mentioned that a relative had great difficulty in driving her rear wheel drive car in the bad winter weather some months back.
Some people said that the problem lay with the driver - what are the tricks / skills / techniques needed to avoid this problem ? A friend of mine ( serious petrol head btw ) living in a rural area had his car laid up for several weeks over the bad weather and could only use his OH's Megane to get to work.
As an aside does Rear Wheel Drive offer any advantages over front wheel drive ?

I drove a rwd silvia 240bhp across the country in heavy snow with no traction control and no issues. (on good tyres but not winter tyres)



If you don't understand what your doing in a rwd car you are definitely more likely to end up in a wall.



It does have major advantages.

1. Ability to put power down
2. Better acceleration
3. Better balance
4. Less demand on front tyres
5. Ability to steer with throttle
6. Better turn in if setup correctly

So for your average joe on the school run bugger all and probably a liability. For those that like to drive a little bit there is no contest. RWD is just simply more fun and rewarding.

If you have a 316/318 with a viscous differential the above does not apply to you as your car is not the ultimate driving machine you were lead to believe it was.

savagecabbages

4WD is king

But I'd still argue for fwd over rwd (bar anything with the engine in the rear) in slippery condtions

ShadowHearth

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

I drove a rwd silvia 240bhp across the country in heavy snow with no traction control and no issues. (on good tyres but not winter tyres)



If you don't understand what your doing in a rwd car you are definitely more likely to end up in a wall.



It does have major advantages.

1. Ability to put power down
2. Better acceleration
3. Better balance
4. Less demand on front tyres
5. Ability to steer with throttle
6. Better turn in if setup correctly

So for your average joe on the school run bugger all and probably a liability. For those that like to drive a little more no contest.

If you have a 316/318 with a viscous differential the above does not apply to you as your car is not the ultimate driving machine you were lead to believe it was.

I drove 400hp car all winter with brutal LSD. Newer had trouble, but that hp did not had any effect. On small speeds rwd car is in same bracket as high power rwd car in snowy road On summer tyres. If not in disadvantage.

80% of the time it depends from a gasket between steering wheel and seat.

TrailerBob

Joe 90 wrote: »

Well, in mine the engine is behind my shoulders, weight distribution 40 fron 60 rear.:)

How could I have forgotten to mention mid engined cars, those kings of snow and ice driving!:pac: Fair point on weight distribution but unless you have skinny studded tyres or are tommy makkinen I doubt it would do well on anything other than main roads in ice and snow.

Joe 90

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

I drove a rwd silvia 240bhp across the country in heavy snow with no traction control and no issues. (on good tyres but not winter tyres)



If you don't understand what your doing in a rwd car you are definitely more likely to end up in a wall.



It does have major advantages.

1. Ability to put power down
2. Better acceleration
3. Better balance
4. Less demand on front tyres
5. Ability to steer with throttle
6. Better turn in if setup correctly

So for your average joe on the school run bugger all and probably a liability. For those that like to drive a little bit there is no contest. RWD is just simply more fun and rewarding.

If you have a 316/318 with a viscous differential the above does not apply to you as your car is not the ultimate driving machine you were lead to believe it was.

You have to remember that people with a 316/318 have bought a badge. They are not drivers.