Question Re: driving test

Barrt2

can some one tell me if you have to change a tire on the driving test and/or tell them how to change it?
also do you have to do something with tire pressure

please let me now and any other tips for the test would be great thanks

CiniO

Barrt2 wrote: »

can some one tell me if you have to change a tire on the driving test and/or tell them how to change it?
also do you have to do something with tire pressure

please let me now and any other tips for the test would be great thanks

If it goes flat during the test, most likely you will have to change it ;P

**Timbuk2**

There's a Learning to Drive forum under motors, which is a good place to ask questions like this!

No you don't have to change a tire, or even tell the tester how to change it!

There's very few technical questions you need to know for the test. Relating to wheels, all you need to know is that the minimum tire tread depth is 1.6mm, and that the tires should be pumped to the recommended pressure (which you don't need to know, it's written inside the door of the car, it's generally different for front and back, and different depending on load) but you won't be asked what the recommended pressure is.

Learning to Drive forum
Good sticky on top of Learning to Drive forum dealing with technical test questions

Best of luck in your test

coylemj

You do not have to actually do anything but the tester will ask you to point out certain parts of the car concerned with maintenance, like where is the oil dipstick or where is the car jack, that is all.

Did you not get (with the appointment letter) a leaflet about preparing for the test and what to expect?

Go to this website and look on the right-hand side for a document 'Preparing for your driving test', I suggest you read it....

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/What-it-is/

Barrt2

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

There's a Learning to Drive forum under motors, which is a good place to ask questions like this!

No you don't have to change a tire, or even tell the tester how to change it!

There's very few technical questions you need to know for the test. Relating to wheels, all you need to know is that the minimum tire tread depth is 1.6mm, and that the tires should be pumped to the recommended pressure (which you don't need to know, it's written inside the door of the car, it's generally different for front and back, and different depending on load) but you won't be asked what the recommended pressure is.

Learning to Drive forum
Good sticky on top of Learning to Drive forum dealing with technical test questions

Best of luck in your test

Thank you

Crackle

CiniO wrote: »

If it goes flat during the test, most likely you will have to change it ;P

A guy I know failed his test because he got a flat during the test. He was about to get out and change it when the tester told he'd failed and got out and walked back to the test centre. After a couple of angry letters and phone calls from his father he got a retest free of charge.

Check the tyre pressure before your test, good practice to know how to do it anyway, it's simple enough.

I got asked not only what the tread depth should be but how to check it. Half the fully licenced people I asked afterwards hadn't a clue on that one.

Alanstrainor

Moved.

GGirl2010

... not good on my test today i failed with 2 extra marks just 2 LOLZ .. they really i think take the buscuit, i mean its fair enough needing to work on driving , yeilding , car control, traffic lights, progression, and breaking, after that they look for tiny minor errors, i think it has gotten very strict in the last 2 years, and it wil continue to rise year after year ( its not a professional test, an amature test LOL.)

Also probably people pass on the severity of the instructors mood/ nicness haha THIS IS NOT RIGHT!!!.
.

If i had of done the test years ago i probably would have possibly passed.

matt70iu

GGirl2010 wrote: »

... not good on my test today i failed with 2 extra marks just 2 LOLZ .. they really i think take the buscuit, i mean its fair enough needing to work on driving , yeilding , car control, traffic lights, progression, and breaking, after that they look for tiny minor errors, i think it has gotten very strict in the last 2 years, and it wil continue to rise year after year ( its not a professional test, an amature test LOL.)

Also probably people pass on the severity of the instructors mood/ nicness haha THIS IS NOT RIGHT!!!.
.

If i had of done the test years ago i probably would have possibly passed.

So sorry to hear you failed your test. I know what it's lke, got mine on third attempt. You are right in thinking that sometimes, a tester in bad form might mark a bit more severely.

The testers are only human at the end of the day and what one tester might deam to be a fault, another might not even mark. There's nothing one can do about that.

I switched instructors, he showed me exactly what they were looking for and drummed it into me. Each time I made a mistake, which a tester MIGHT mark, he pulled me up on it. Passed my 3rd test with only 2 grade 1's.

Don't loose heart, keep at it, change instructor for a fresh pair of eyes maybe, and most importantly stick at it.

Best of luck in your next test!! You'll get there!

GGirl2010

matt70iu wrote: »

So sorry to hear you failed your test. I know what it's lke, got mine on third attempt. You are right in thinking that sometimes, a tester in bad form might mark a bit more severely.

The testers are only human at the end of the day and what one tester might deam to be a fault, another might not even mark. There's nothing one can do about that.

I switched instructors, he showed me exactly what they were looking for and drummed it into me. Each time I made a mistake, which a tester MIGHT mark, he pulled me up on it. Passed my 3rd test with only 2 grade 1's.

Don't loose heart, keep at it, change instructor for a fresh pair of eyes maybe, and most importantly stick at it.

Best of luck in your next test!! You'll get there!

em.... well the marks i got today were a discrace... i got 9 marks and 8 is a passs.. the 9the mark was somthing tiny also... something like break twice or some crap... but anyway... i dont think i wil get the test in ireland tbh.. with you... i dont have any more money tbh... to be forking out for their wanting to fiail just to fail and not on my official correct driving... i cant and dont have the time for them anymore... im leaving ireland anyway.. so dont have any money... today there was 10 people in the room 1 passed ...

matt70iu

GGirl2010 wrote: »

em.... well the marks i got today were a discrace... i got 9 marks and 8 is a passs.. the 9the mark was somthing tiny also... something like break twice or some crap... but anyway... i dont think i wil get the test in ireland tbh.. with you... i dont have any more money tbh... to be forking out for their wanting to fiail just to fail and not on my official correct driving... i cant and dont have the time for them anymore... im leaving ireland anyway.. so dont have any money... today there was 10 people in the room 1 passed ...

Course, I understand you're discouraged over it. Was so annoyed over my 2nd test, ( which I deserved to fail, unlike my first) that I left it for over 18 months before putting in for it again.

Give it time, and you'll be in the the position to afford and want to put in for it again.

On the up side, once you have the licence, you have it for life. What ever you decide, hope you get that pink licence!

GGirl2010

matt70iu wrote: »

Course, I understand you're discouraged over it. Was so annoyed over my 2nd test, ( which I deserved to fail, unlike my first) that I left it for over 18 months before putting in for it again.

Give it time, and you'll be in the the position to afford and want to put in for it again.

On the up side, once you have the licence, you have it for life. What ever you decide, hope you get that pink licence!

Em, haha yeah well it wont be in ireland thats for sure, maby il carry my driving on on a diff country, ireland is not gettin any more money of of me.. thats for sure!!!!... plus its easier in other countries, so screw em. I t really is a money racket !!!!!! most people agree... and yes thank you, il try get pink lisence else where yes, not in ireland.

Thanks ggirl2010...

GGirl2010

GGirl2010 wrote: »

Em, haha yeah well it wont be in ireland thats for sure, maby il carry my driving on on a diff country, ireland is not gettin any more money of of me.. thats for sure!!!!... plus its easier in other countries, so screw em. I t really is a money racket !!!!!! most people agree... and yes thank you, il try get pink lisence else where yes, not in ireland.

Thanks ggirl2010...

If our test is harder than some other countries, those are certainly countries I would want to avoid driving in...
If you can't pass our test, you are not a good driver. Not that passing the test will make you a good driver, but better than otherwise.

GGirl2010

bluewolf wrote: »

If our test is harder than some other countries, those are certainly countries I would want to avoid driving in...
If you can't pass our test, you are not a good driver. Not that passing the test will make you a good driver, but better than otherwise.

Em, well i got 10 marks, from 8. I think this is very good, considering 8 is classed as an amature level of driving ( in their book) and passable mark, and what with their standards of marking, they never give 8, so you cant win really !!!!! .I think 8 is classed as professional really, and what wit there strictness, it is very good driving . Really if you get up to 15 you stil are good,But anyway their rule applies to 8 LOLZ.

Permabear

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GGirl2010

Permabear wrote: »

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Hi, lol em yes i agree with you , but sometimes they dont really be fair , i mean im just saying some instructors if there not happy , like in a bad mood they base it on their attitude and what they want , but not on what has been done, like correct moves made.

GGirl2010

GGirl2010 wrote: »

Hi, lol em yes i agree with you , but sometimes they dont really be fair , i mean im just saying some instructors if there not happy , like in a bad mood they base it on their attitude and what they want , but not on what has been done, like correct moves made.

It doesn't matter how many correct moves you make if you follow them up with crashing into someone.
If you cannot pass your test then get more lessons, improve your driving, and stop yelling about money making rackets.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

GGirl2010

bluewolf wrote: »

It doesn't matter how many correct moves you make if you follow them up with crashing into someone.
If you cannot pass your test then get more lessons, improve your driving, and stop yelling about money making rackets.

Em im not doing any yelling haha, Correct moves yes this does matter , they tell you the wrong moves you made at the end and yes they add up so they do count. It is a money racket in some cases alright yes.

Permabear

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GGirl2010

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Well yes experienced drivers do know more obvioulsy, but lol @ their marking doh on tiny minor things that are not really important, any professionall driver does these minor mistakes also in their everyday driving. Im not giving out im just saying that this test is highly strict and there is nothing i can do about it only get more training to get it down to a tea. After the test most people do not do exactly what was needed in the test anyway .

GGirl2010

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Em maby because they fail people when they are so close to passing, and then they have to go off and get more training and also apply for a driving test, all this costs money..

Alanstrainor

GGirl2010 wrote: »

Em maby because they fail people when they are so close to passing, and then they have to go off and get more training and also apply for a driving test, all this costs money..

I think what you want is an "ah sure you're grand" approach to assessing your driving ability in a driving test. This simply cannot be the case, it has to be as black and white as possible. Whether or not you get one too many grade 2 marks against you, or 20 too many, doesn't make a difference. You've failed to meet the set standard.

If anything Ireland's driving test is too easy when compared to other European countries.

Learn from your mistakes and do the test again. Don't go in thinking that it is just a money making scheme, because if it is, who ever devised it got their sums horribly wrong!

Best of luck with everything!

GGirl2010

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I think what you want is an "ah sure you're grand" approach to assessing your driving ability in a driving test. This simply cannot be the case, it has to be as black and white as possible. Whether or not you get one too many grade 2 marks against you, or 20 too many, doesn't make a difference. You've failed to meet the set standard.

If anything Ireland's driving test is too easy when compared to other European countries.

Learn from your mistakes and do the test again. Don't go in thinking that it is just a money making scheme, because if it is, who ever devised it got their sums horribly wrong!

Best of luck with everything!

PHWHAHHAHA a whole 2 mistakes , of which were grade 1.. yeah thanks. im leaving this country as there are no jobs , so when i get more money together to improve my whole 2 minor mistakes i wil do so. Just to note* IRELAND it is seen as a privalage to drive and in usa/canada it is a must, therefore driving test in ireland wil be hard, in usa it wil be not hard.

Thanks ggirl2010

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ADIDriving

GGirl2010 wrote: »

PHWHAHHAHA a whole 2 mistakes , of which were grade 1.. yeah thanks. im leaving this country as there are no jobs , so when i get more money together to improve my whole 2 minor mistakes i wil do so.

There are many valid points being made by various other people. One observation though. Do you know why you failed? Minor marks don't add up to making your result. The various ways you can fail are: 4 serious / grade 2 marks in a line, 6 grade 2s in a category, 9 grade 2s spread out over the whole sheet or 1 grade 3.

witchgirl26

I failed my test last year - got 13 grade 2's. I would have questioned 2 of those as being correct but still would have failed. I didn't blame it on anyone else just on myself - I got nervous & made stupid mistakes (apparently most within the first half of the test). It's too easy to blame it on the test being too hard & them being out to make money but at the end of the day, a car can be a lethal weapon in the hands of someone who can't control it properly. That's why there's a test. It's not a right to drive anywhere - it's a privilege and therefore you're not entitled to it at all. You have to accept responsibility for your failings as well as your achievements.

Yes it sucks when you only fail by a bit but that happens in all exams. There has to be a cut off. I have heard of some testers who will think before marking down another Grade 2 resulting in a fail for the driver, if it is on the minor scale of offence & they think that overall the person is a good driver. That's only on one additional. Not two or three.

I'd say get a few more lessons & go for the test again but leave the attitude about it behind. If you're good enough, you will pass. If you don't, just let it go. It's only driving - not the end of the world if it takes you a few go's to get it. I'm doing that - got my test coming up again soon. Yeah I'd love to pass but it'll be my fault if I don't & to be honest it won't really affect my life overly much if I don't. I'll just apply again. I failed my test last year - got 13 grade 2's. I would have questioned 2 of those as being correct but still would have failed. I didn't blame it on anyone else just on myself - I got nervous & made stupid mistakes (apparently most within the first half of the test). It's too easy to blame it on the test being too hard & them being out to make money but at the end of the day, a car can be a lethal weapon in the hands of someone who can't control it properly. That's why there's a test. It's not a right to drive anywhere - it's a privilege and therefore you're not entitled to it at all. You have to accept responsibility for your failings as well as your achievements.

Yes it sucks when you only fail by a bit but that happens in all exams. There has to be a cut off. I have heard of some testers who will think before marking down another Grade 2 resulting in a fail for the driver, if it is on the minor scale of offence & they think that overall the person is a good driver. That's only on one additional. Not two or three.

GGirl2010

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I failed my test last year - got 13 grade 2's. I would have questioned 2 of those as being correct but still would have failed. I didn't blame it on anyone else just on myself - I got nervous & made stupid mistakes (apparently most within the first half of the test). It's too easy to blame it on the test being too hard & them being out to make money but at the end of the day, a car can be a lethal weapon in the hands of someone who can't control it properly. That's why there's a test. It's not a right to drive anywhere - it's a privilege and therefore you're not entitled to it at all. You have to accept responsibility for your failings as well as your achievements.

Yes it sucks when you only fail by a bit but that happens in all exams. There has to be a cut off. I have heard of some testers who will think before marking down another Grade 2 resulting in a fail for the driver, if it is on the minor scale of offence & they think that overall the person is a good driver. That's only on one additional. Not two or three.

I'd say get a few more lessons & go for the test again but leave the attitude about it behind. If you're good enough, you will pass. If you don't, just let it go. It's only driving - not the end of the world if it takes you a few go's to get it. I'm doing that - got my test coming up again soon. Yeah I'd love to pass but it'll be my fault if I don't & to be honest it won't really affect my life overly much if I don't. I'll just apply again. I failed my test last year - got 13 grade 2's. I would have questioned 2 of those as being correct but still would have failed. I didn't blame it on anyone else just on myself - I got nervous & made stupid mistakes (apparently most within the first half of the test). It's too easy to blame it on the test being too hard & them being out to make money but at the end of the day, a car can be a lethal weapon in the hands of someone who can't control it properly. That's why there's a test. It's not a right to drive anywhere - it's a privilege and therefore you're not entitled to it at all. You have to accept responsibility for your failings as well as your achievements.

Yes it sucks when you only fail by a bit but that happens in all exams. There has to be a cut off. I have heard of some testers who will think before marking down another Grade 2 resulting in a fail for the driver, if it is on the minor scale of offence & they think that overall the person is a good driver. That's only on one additional. Not two or three.

Hi , how are you, yeah i know what you are saying , i have mentioned above that it is a provalage to drive in ireland, and not usa/canada as it is a must out there. Also i wish you were right about keep gettin the lessons and keep going for it, there is no choice but to do that nayway and sometimes people wil keep cintinusly going for it and then end up with it horrible instructors and some with nice leaniant instructors so i dont like it when they do that. I just think for a person to go off and perfect their mistakes and get the whole thing of down to a tea and then not passing it again and gettin something like a 9 marker. ... just b/c of the instrictor and not b/c the driving, LOL you just cant win. anyway.. this wil happen again and again and again.

I agree with you just keep on training for it i geuss. I cannot anyways as i am out of this country soon. Who knows i might be luky and get it while im away in the states LOLZ. I will continue to try to get it here otherwise.

GGirl2010

ADIDriving wrote: »

There are many valid points being made by various other people. One observation though. Do you know why you failed? Minor marks don't add up to making your result. The various ways you can fail are: 4 serious / grade 2 marks in a line, 6 grade 2s in a category, 9 grade 2s spread out over the whole sheet or 1 grade 3.

I had 6 grade 1s and 4 grade 2s ADIDriving, and no i didnt get any in a row. most i had in a row was 2 in a row.

**Timbuk2**

GGirl2010 wrote: »

I had 6 grade 1s and 4 grade 2s ADIDriving, and no i didnt get any in a row. most i had in a row was 2 in a row.

That's a pass

By grade 1's, you do mean 'green' faults (the ones that don't affect the test result!) right?

I agree that the Irish test is not that difficult to pass, and I failed my first one (:o)... 2 Grade 1s and 6 Grade 2s (4 of them on the one line for Progress on the Straight, 1 of them for Progress Turning Right, and 1 for competency on the turnabout).

I felt a bit gutted when I failed, because my instructor said that I'd have no difficulty passing and said I was one of the best/quickest students that he had (he probably says this to everyone, but I got myself into a "I can do this" mindset nonetheless). A lot of people I told said it's because I was an 18yo male and the tester would show prejudice, but I knew this wasn't true. I passed it 4 weeks later with no faults (and with the same tester) thereby debunking this myth completely.

I was just being too careful because I knew it was my test (apparently common according to an instructor I took an extra lesson with after failing my first). I know I got the progress turning right leaving the exam centre - I waited for a gap the size of Jupiter before moving out (it was an 80km/h road and I was too afraid of getting a Grade 3 for pulling out when there wasn't a big enough gap). The instructors advice of "drive as you normally do and forget it's a test" worked excellently!.

Well that ended up being long. The point is that however flawed you feel the system is, it'll be worth it when you do pass in the end - you have the licence for life then.

**Timbuk2**

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

The instructors advice of "drive as you normally do and forget it's a test" worked excellently!.

Ain't that the truth. It took me fcuking up my reverse around a corner in the first 2 mins of the test and being convinced I'd failed, to loosen up and get me to drive as normal :pac:

ADIDriving

GGirl2010 wrote: »

I had 6 grade 1s and 4 grade 2s ADIDriving, and no i didnt get any in a row. most i had in a row was 2 in a row.

According to those results, you passed!?

Permabear

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ThunderZtorm

Strange how different it is - seems to me that getting a license in Ireland is both a LOT cheaper and quite a bit easier than it is in Denmark, my home country.

In Denmark, you're allowed 4 mistakes of any severity, on the fifth, you fail. End of discussion. Doesn't matter if it's crossing a red light, or forgetting to check your mirror - it's a mistake, and you will be marked.

Also, you're supposed to be able to drive safely in slippery/icy conditions in Denmark, obviously.

Oh, of course, in Denmark you need at least 8 theory lessons and 12 driving lessons (subject to when the instructor feels you're done). And, there is NO learner's permit license - until you get the full license, you cannot drive in traffic. Ever. Under any circumstance.

sadim

great stuff

GGirl2010

ThunderZtorm wrote: »

Strange how different it is - seems to me that getting a license in Ireland is both a LOT cheaper and quite a bit easier than it is in Denmark, my home country.

In Denmark, you're allowed 4 mistakes of any severity, on the fifth, you fail. End of discussion. Doesn't matter if it's crossing a red light, or forgetting to check your mirror - it's a mistake, and you will be marked.

Also, you're supposed to be able to drive safely in slippery/icy conditions in Denmark, obviously.

Oh, of course, in Denmark you need at least 8 theory lessons and 12 driving lessons (subject to when the instructor feels you're done). And, there is NO learner's permit license - until you get the full license, you cannot drive in traffic. Ever. Under any circumstance.

Em.. your supposed to drive in traffic millions of times.. how do you think people get to work, a to b, obvioulsy the rules have changed , but this needs to be done to avoid mistakes so you get used to it. How do you think people with cars many years ago drove, they got into a car and drove day in day out, that way they wil be a pro after a while,But anyway the rules have changed.

**Timbuk2**

GGirl2010 wrote: »

How do you think people with cars many years ago drove, they got into a car and drove day in day out, that way they wil be a pro after a while,But anyway the rules have changed.

In my experience, a lot of people who have been driving for years can be a bit out of touch with the rules. Stand at any roundabout for a few minutes and you'll see! Of course, some are good (or at least not set in their ways because they've been "driving for years" that they are willing to correct their mistakes, adapt to new things like 3-lane motorways that may have not been around in their time). Remember though that people who got their full licence around 31/32 years ago may have gotten during the amnesty of the late 70s, as in they have never sat a test.

I don't quite agree that learners should learn to drive without driving in traffic, but they certainly shouldn't be driving without an accompanied driver - I don't think people appreciate how dangerous that actually is. If you're good enough to drive unaccompanied then you'll be good enough to pass the test with flying colours

ThunderZtorm

GGirl2010 wrote: »

Em.. your supposed to drive in traffic millions of times.. how do you think people get to work, a to b, obvioulsy the rules have changed , but this needs to be done to avoid mistakes so you get used to it. How do you think people with cars many years ago drove, they got into a car and drove day in day out, that way they wil be a pro after a while,But anyway the rules have changed.

You misunderstand me, I think.
I'm not stating an opinion, I'm stating fact. Outside of the driving lessons you get in Denmark, there is no way you will legally be able to drive in traffic before you get your full driver's license.

GGirl2010

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

In my experience, a lot of people who have been driving for years can be a bit out of touch with the rules. Stand at any roundabout for a few minutes and you'll see! Of course, some are good (or at least not set in their ways because they've been "driving for years" that they are willing to correct their mistakes, adapt to new things like 3-lane motorways that may have not been around in their time). Remember though that people who got their full licence around 31/32 years ago may have gotten during the amnesty of the late 70s, as in they have never sat a test.

I don't quite agree that learners should learn to drive without driving in traffic, but they certainly shouldn't be driving without an accompanied driver - I don't think people appreciate how dangerous that actually is. If you're good enough to drive unaccompanied then you'll be good enough to pass the test with flying colours

Em, yes im sure it is very frightning for new learners first time starting to drive, if it wanst for the new rule, new learners would bit e the bullet and practice more and more, drive more that is, but now it just has learners nervous making them slow at progression. Em well i geuss they would have to be accompanied obvioulsy so they can be told what to do etc etc.. The test as of now is hard and strict. They wil not let you away with even one tiny mistakes and at that they wil mark you in a line for every thing you do wrong even if your driving is perfect it comes down to all the minor small things it would take few attempts to get it right , but some do get it depending on the niceness of the instructor.

GGirl2010

ADIDriving wrote: »

According to those results, you passed!?

hi .Well they failed me nothing i can do..

**Timbuk2**

GGirl2010 wrote: »

Em, yes im sure it is very frightning for new learners first time starting to drive, if it wanst for the new rule, new learners would bit e the bullet and practice more and more, drive more that is, but now it just has learners nervous making them slow at progression. Em well i geuss they would have to be accompanied obvioulsy so they can be told what to do etc etc.. The test as of now is hard and strict. They wil not let you away with even one tiny mistakes and at that they wil mark you in a line for every thing you do wrong even if your driving is perfect it comes down to all the minor small things it would take few attempts to get it right , but some do get it depending on the niceness of the instructor.

I think the new rules make it easier for a learner? Yes it's costly having to do 12 lessons, but they'll build up competence this way - and judging from my own experience, 12 lessons will fly by!

The test isn't hard and strict. You can get away with quite a few mistakes, and not tiny ones. Tiny mistakes correspond to Grade 1 faults. Potentially serious mistakes are Grade 2 faults, and dangerous mistakes are Grade 3 faults. You can get as many Grade 1s as you want and still pass, 8 Grade 2s and still pass, and a Grade 3 is dangerous so that's a fail.

I don't think the niceness of the tester comes into it either. My first tester was very nice but I still failed. My second tester was not as nice, and I passed with no faults.

And if you genuinely got the result you say you did above, then that is a pass, and you have grounds for appeal. 4 Grade 2s (not on a row) is certainly a pass, so appeal it in that case. I doubt a tester would accidentally fail you, are you sure that the 6 Grade 1s were actually Grade 1 (green faults), and not blue or pink faults?

ADIDriving

GGirl2010 wrote: »

hi .Well they failed me nothing i can do..

IF you got those result, you passed. Not even a case of appealing, because you are not questioning the result, those results would be a pass. IF you got those results, it would be a case of phoning the RSA to say you recieved the wrong cert. They can then check their copy of the marking sheet and IF it shows the same six marks with only two in a row, then they would issue the correct cert.
Might be an idea to post a pic of the marks ( cover the top part where the names are ).

challengemaster

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There's so many things wrong with that comparison, I'm surprised it was actually you that said it.... Did you not have your morning coffee by then?

Different states, different traffic laws, the immense difference in the population size... It's nearly as bad as taking the RSA's "facts" at face value