Top american investigator says Ireland should jail bankers

steddyeddy

American investigator Bill Black is responsible for jailing thousands of top-level bankers in the United States.
He says the top bankers here influenced and lied to the regulators.


Interview here


http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/5top-investigator-says-ireland-needs-to-prosecute-bankers48/

Naikon

Can we play something other than state the obvious for a while? Max Keiser mentioned this fact back in November ffs.

steddyeddy

Naikon wrote: »

Can we play something other than state the obvious for a while? Max Keiser mentioned this fact back in November ffs.

Im glad he mentioned it in his book that makes everything ok! Seriously they broke the law its not good enough that their still walking the streets.

Naikon

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im glad he mentioned it in his book that makes everything ok! Seriously they broke the law its not good enough that their still walking the streets.

It sucks that this country is rotton to the core. At least "The Americans" have their priorities right. As a country, they don't take ****. Immigration especially. These guys won't be jailed.

Da Shins Kelly

Naikon wrote: »

It sucks that this country is rotton to the core. At least "The Americans" have their priorities right. As a country, they don't take ****. Immigration especially. These guys won't be jailed.

They should be jailed and won't be, but I woudn't be under the illusion that Americans "have their priorities right". They're f*cked up too, over there - poverty, racism, serious class inequality, religious fundamentalism, endless wars, messed up politics. We have our problems, but the enormity of the problems in America make me quite happy to be living here rather than there.

Naikon

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

They should be jailed and won't be, but I woudn't be under the illusion that Americans "have their priorities right". They're f*cked up too, over there - poverty, racism, serious class inequality, religious fundamentalism, endless wars, messed up politics. We have our problems, but the enormity of the problems in America make me quite happy to be living here rather than there.

I agree. America is essentially a police state. I should not have said "they have their priorities straight". It's just I noticed how serious the authorities are when it comes to policing. Honestly, I feel safer here than the states, simply due to the reduced number of orwellian rules. Corrupt as **** or not, they take no ****.

orourkeda

Naikon wrote: »

Can we play something other than state the obvious for a while? Max Keiser mentioned this fact back in November ffs.

The boul max is on top of his sh1t

ilovesleep

So how about an all out strike to make this happen. Stockpile food and other necessary supplies. And dont go to work. Europe cannot let ireland default. An all out strike and our policitians will stand the fcuk up and do whats needed. Or are irish people too greedy for a strike.

RachaelVO

I can't see any of the bankers quaking in their boots at this... not one of the w*nkers are going to see the dock, not one!!!

Zebra3

steddyeddy wrote: »

American investigator Bill Black is responsible for jailing thousands of top-level bankers in the United States.

Thousands?

Really?

Fight_Night

Naikon wrote: »

I As a country, they don't take ****. Immigration especially. These guys won't be jailed.

Off topic but they are not close to having their illegal immigration problem under control and it is far worse than ours.

ilovesleep

RachaelVO wrote: »

I can't see any of the bankers quaking in their boots at this... not one of the w*nkers are going to see the dock, not one!!!

If this is the case, Im going to say - UP DOLE SCROUNGERS. At least they are not working and paying tax towards such corruption. The irish taxpayers are fools

RichieC

Fight_Night wrote: »

Off topic but they are not close to having their illegal immigration problem under control and it is far worse than ours.

Who is? America? There's at least 12 million illegals in the US, getting rid of all of them would be one of the biggest etnic cleansing projects ever undertaken.

*I may have misread your post and am tucking into some humble pie now

RachaelVO

ilovesleep wrote: »

If this is the case, Im going to say - UP DOLE SCROUNGERS. At least they are not working and paying tax towards such corruption. The irish taxpayers are fools

Not a bad way of thinking...

metamorphosis

not to mention that the US has a population of abouts 300 million, whereas we have, what, under 5 million??

pragmatic1

No one will go to jail in this country. The corruption goes to deep. In Ireland there really is one law for the elite of society and another for the rest of us.

God...

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

They should be jailed and won't be, but I woudn't be under the illusion that Americans "have their priorities right". They're f*cked up too, over there - poverty, racism, serious class inequality, religious fundamentalism, endless wars, messed up politics. We have our problems, but the enormity of the problems in America make me quite happy to be living here rather than there.

Got to be honest, I'm well happier living in America :pac:

But yes I do agree with you about everything else, some states are a hell of a lot worse off than Ireland!!

ilovesleep

pragmatic1 wrote: »

No one will go to jail in this country. The corruption goes to deep. In Ireland there really is one law for the elite of society and another for the rest of us.

Well then we are entitled to defraud the state. The IMF and the ECB will never see their money back, therefore its a european problem. Surely there must be some sort of european law for this. European court of justice and all that. Whats happening here in this country at the top is sending a message that its ok to defraud. Are there any racism laws here in this country. Its racism pure and simple to go after the little men and the ordinary joe soaps for not paying a tv license as an example and then to allow these fat cat bankers to walk away free.

steddyeddy

metamorphosis wrote: »

not to mention that the US has a population of abouts 300 million, whereas we have, what, under 5 million??

So the fact we have a smaller population should come into play when people break the law?

pragmatic1

ilovesleep wrote: »

Well then we are entitled to defraud the state. The IMF and the ECB will never see their money back, therefore its a european problem. Surely there must be some sort of european law for this. European court of justice and all that. Whats happening here in this country at the top is sending a message that its ok to defraud. Are there any racism laws here in this country. Its racism pure and simple to go after the little men and the ordinary joe soaps for not paying a tv license as an example and then to allow these fat cat bankers to walk away free.

Its always been ok to commit fraud in this country. Check how many people have gone to jail for fraud in the history of the state. Its a hard pill to swallow but thats just the way it is in this country. The legal profession are very much to blame for this.

michael999999

ilovesleep wrote: »

Well then we are entitled to defraud the state. The IMF and the ECB will never see their money back, therefore its a european problem. Surely there must be some sort of european law for this. European court of justice and all that. Whats happening here in this country at the top is sending a message that its ok to defraud. Are there any racism laws here in this country. Its racism pure and simple to go after the little men and the ordinary joe soaps for not paying a tv license as an example and then to allow these fat cat bankers to walk away free.

Do you know the definition of racism?

Sonics2k

ilovesleep wrote: »

Well then we are entitled to defraud the state. The IMF and the ECB will never see their money back, therefore its a european problem. Surely there must be some sort of european law for this. European court of justice and all that. Whats happening here in this country at the top is sending a message that its ok to defraud. Are there any racism laws here in this country. Its racism pure and simple to go after the little men and the ordinary joe soaps for not paying a tv license as an example and then to allow these fat cat bankers to walk away free.

I kinda agreed with you up until you said racism.

Do you actually know what racism is, or do you just like throwing buzz words around?

ilovesleep

Discrimination would be a better word to use there.

oppenheimer1

If they committed a crime they should be tried and punished. However no matter the size of a company, running it into the ground is not a crime.

mr.mickels

I would be all in favour of jailing them, and any of the banker/developers who signed over money to a spouse or family member to escape having to repay debts should have that money reclaimed. I would also be in favour of seeing Bertie, Cowen and Lenihan going to jail for their part in telling lies to the taxpayer and stealing/squandering the wealth of the nation

ilovesleep

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If they committed a crime they should be tried and punished. However no matter the size of a company, running it into the ground is not a crime.

But lieing can be fraud, which is exactly what bankers did - cooking their books.

Say for example I was to fill up a form for a driving license and gave false information and false documentation. i was successful at getting that license and i went on a rallying spree in a city killing thousands. Thats fraud and badness of the highest order.

Bankers cooked their books, ran an entire economy into the ground which we will be paying for and threatened the entire euro project.

steddyeddy

ilovesleep wrote: »

But lieing can be fraud, which is exactly what bankers did - cooking their books.

Say for example I was to fill up a form for a driving license and gave false information and false documentation. i was successful at getting that license and i went on a rallying spree in a city killing thousands. Thats fraud and badness of the highest order.

Bankers cooked their books, ran an entire economy into the ground which we will be paying for and threatened the entire euro project.

They lied to the regulator which is a serious crime as is cooking the books.

oppenheimer1

ilovesleep wrote: »

But lieing can be fraud, which is exactly what bankers did - cooking their books.

Say for example I was to fill up a form for a driving license and gave false information and false documentation. i was successful at getting that license and i went on a rallying spree in a city killing thousands. Thats fraud and badness of the highest order.

Bankers cooked their books, ran an entire economy into the ground which we will be paying for and threatened the entire euro project.

Be specific. What lie did they tell the regulator? They cooked their books yet the auditor signed off on them?

No report has come out and said it was fraud was the cause of the problems, it was regulatory oversight and in-understanding of just the amount of risk the banks were taking on.

ilovesleep

This is a european problem if you ask me. Ireland is doing nothing to punish these bankers. There is nothing to stop these rats of setting up banks in say for example eastern europe and ruinning their economies. Isn't AIB already over in Poland.

ilovesleep

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Be specific. What lie did they tell the regulator? They cooked their books yet the auditor signed off on them?

No report has come out and said it was fraud was the cause of the problems, it was regulatory oversight and in-understanding of just the amount of risk the banks were taking on.

They lied by showing 'healthy books'. Is it not known seanie fitzpatrick removed his loans to make his books look healthy. Same way as I lied giving false info and documentation to obtain a driving license and going on and killing thousands.

pragmatic1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Be specific. What lie did they tell the regulator? They cooked their books yet the auditor signed off on them?

No report has come out and said it was fraud was the cause of the problems, it was regulatory oversight and in-understanding of just the amount of risk the banks were taking on.

Going by whats been said in the media, the banks lied about the extent of their problems before the guarantee. So either the bankers were telling fibs or last government were very much aware of what was going on. I'd say both. Brian Cowen thinks people believe that at a time when the financial stability of the country was in serious difficulty, he went golfing with one of the chief perpetrators and they didnt discuss Anglo. GTFO.

steddyeddy

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Be specific. What lie did they tell the regulator? They cooked their books yet the auditor signed off on them?

No report has come out and said it was fraud was the cause of the problems, it was regulatory oversight and in-understanding of just the amount of risk the banks were taking on.

Hang on very few people are saying fraud causes all the problems or has caused but the fact is fraud is still illegal. Bnk robbery isnt going to put the country in economic meltdown but it is still a crime. As regards crime how about sean fitzpatrick involved in insider trading buy shares in anglo?

oppenheimer1

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Going by whats been said in the media, the banks lied about the extent of their problems before the guarantee. So either the bankers were telling fibs or last government were very much aware of what was going on. I'd say both. Brian Cowen thinks people believe that at a time when the financial stability of the country was in serious difficulty, he went golfing with one of the chief perpetrators and they didnt discuss Anglo. GTFO.

Are you sure they lied? Perhaps they were deluded and didn't understand the problems they were facing as they were too awful to contemplate?

steddyeddy

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Are you sure they lied? Perhaps they were deluded and didn't understand the problems they were facing as they were too awful to contemplate?

Why did drumm give money to his wife as the bank was falling then and why did sean fitzpatrick get other parties to buy shares and loan money to anglo then?

pragmatic1

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Are you sure they lied? Perhaps they were deluded and didn't understand the problems they were facing as they were too awful to contemplate?

Of course they knew. How could they not know. People working in foreign banks knew the state of the Irish banking sector. Now either they deliberately decieved the state or the Fianna Fail government also knew what was going on. Doesnt really matter though because nothing will come of this.

oppenheimer1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why did drumm give money to his wife as the bank was falling then and why did sean fitzpatrick get other parties to buy shares and loan money to anglo then?

I don't know, but giving money to your wife isn't illegal nor is buying or selling shares in a company.

None of the three reports have said that fraud played any role in the crisis. Incompetence and delusion yes, but not fraud.

As I said, its not a crime to run your business into the ground.

ilovesleep

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Doesnt really matter though because nothing will come of this.

Nothing will come of this because we're not out on the streets protesting for it. The people of iceland protested for their bankers to be punished and officals are raiding bankers homes.

ilovesleep

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't know, but giving money to your wife isn't illegal nor is buying or selling shares in a company.

None of the three reports have said that fraud played any role in the crisis. Incompetence and delusion yes, but not fraud.

As I said, its not a crime to run your business into the ground.

Its a crime to defraud revenue. If I made thousands by not paying tax and decided I to transfer funds to a partner to appear that I'm bankrupt - thats fraud.

Dwellingdweller

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't know, but giving money to your wife isn't illegal nor is buying or selling shares in a company.

None of the three reports have said that fraud played any role in the crisis. Incompetence and delusion yes, but not fraud.

As I said, its not a crime to run your business into the ground.

But it is morally wrong. And isn't that the definition of a crime?

oppenheimer1

Whats morally wrong and whats illegal are two very different things.

RachaelVO

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Whats morally wrong and whats illegal are two very different things.

Good point, they are not always exclusive, nor are the inclusive.

It's still amazingly frustrating though. Why has no one so far been taken to task over this. It's one of (not the only one) the major factors that has Ireland on it's knees! It maddening :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Son Of A Vidic

Jail? Jail is expensive and would cost us a lot of money. A hangman's noose on the other hand is quite inexpensive.

washman3

no banker boss will be jailed here,they may face court,and possibly fined and we will be peddled the line from the government that "justice has been done" They cant be jailed because if the heat comes on the will spill the beans and bring down the whole house of cards. FF,FG,GREENS,LABOUR members and selected independents were all in the scam that was the property bubble. do any of those want the truth to be told.?? bank clerks may be jailed,like other ordinary people, for simply being unable to pay everyday bills. wait for it.!!!

Zebra3

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't know, but giving money to your wife isn't illegal nor is buying or selling shares in a company.

None of the three reports have said that fraud played any role in the crisis. Incompetence and delusion yes, but not fraud.

As I said, its not a crime to run your business into the ground.

You never heard of reckless traing then? :rolleyes:

Yet, some people have all the luck....
http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2010/nov/28/anglo-executives-to-avoid-reckless-trading-charges/

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

washman3

as long as we have clowns in this country that try to defend bankers and pretend that they know the law on this matter we are on a hiding to nothing. if we really want them punished GET ON THE STREETS, its the only way, hell will freeze over before the the "establishment" punish them, they cant,they are part of it.!!! time to wake up.

KidTwists

"You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bull**** would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it would take. Just once."

The quote is taken from this article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216

For those of you who don't already know, Blankfein is CEO of Goldman Sachs.

superelliptic

RachaelVO wrote: »

I can't see any of the bankers quaking in their boots at this... not one of the w*nkers are going to see the dock, not one!!!

The Indo said as much before xmas (I hate quoting that paper, but there you go). They said the problem was that half of the sh!t bankers got up to was irresponsible, but generally legal - making their massive f*ck-ups harder to prosecute. The other problem they mentioned was that it was next to impossible to get a jury to understand high finance. If the jury doesnt understand whats going on, they cant do anything usefull. The judge who said all this recommended setting up special courts with panels of finance experts to act as jury, but I'v not heard anything about it since.

mikemac

superelliptic wrote: »

The other problem they mentioned was that it was next to impossible to get a jury to understand high finance. If the jury doesnt understand whats going on, they cant do anything usefull. The judge who said all this recommended setting up special courts with panels of finance experts to act as jury, but I'v not heard anything about it since.

Well what happened in Ireland is pretty simple compared to the USA. We might have loans covered up and shell companies, in America they had derivatives that you'd need a Phd to understand.

It's a good point to get finance experts in for the jury. But one bad point on this is they may be unlikely to convict.

The defendant will come in "I was working 70 hour weeks, under massive pressure coming to quarter end and I had to hit my targets"

And the finance guy on the jury will recognize this, "ah I know the pressure involved in finance, I've been there myself"

danbohan

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

They should be jailed and won't be, but I woudn't be under the illusion that Americans "have their priorities right". They're f*cked up too, over there - poverty, racism, serious class inequality, religious fundamentalism, endless wars, messed up politics. We have our problems, but the enormity of the problems in America make me quite happy to be living here rather than there.

ever live in america did ya?

RachaelVO

superelliptic wrote: »

The Indo said as much before xmas (I hate quoting that paper, but there you go). They said the problem was that half of the sh!t bankers got up to was irresponsible, but generally legal - making their massive f*ck-ups harder to prosecute. The other problem they mentioned was that it was next to impossible to get a jury to understand high finance. If the jury doesnt understand whats going on, they cant do anything usefull. The judge who said all this recommended setting up special courts with panels of finance experts to act as jury, but I'v not heard anything about it since.

Wow, that's an interesting suggestion! A jury is supposed to be made of your peers, so, even though I would consider myself (other might not) as reasonably intelligent, I don't think I'd get what they did, but a jury of financial experts would make a huge amount of sense, and it would be their peer group!

True to form and typical irish cronyism, very little will come of it!

ilovesleep

How about negligence? Are there any negligence laws in these country? Surely negligence in ones job is a crime. Say for example you're in a job and you acted carelessly and wrecklessly causing damage to others. Such damage would have been avoided if you behaved responsibly.

Top bankers behaved wrecklessly by borrowing and lending wrecklessly, then becoming mates with the government to seek finiancial help from the taxpayers.

I was reading not long ago that Ireland does indeed have laws to punish these people but that the laws are not being used.

Was there not a case a few years ago of a doctor who was negligent in his job and removed the wombs of healthy women. What he did was negligent. What happened to him?