church kills bar n hotel trade

jakdelad

why in the year 2011
is has catholic church still got a grip on our country
the pubs and drink industry are losing millions over the bank holiday weekend
because of some archaic law??/
so much for being a pluralist society
and because of the grip the chruch has
everyone has to suffer and no one can buy a drink
people who are non christian must adhere to this rule too??
this would not be tolerated in any other country

i appeal to the legal brains here
can this be challenged in court ??
where did this law come from
whos the spark who signed this one into law

Misticles

jakdelad wrote: »

why in the year 2011
is has catholic church still got a grip on our country
the pubs and drink industry are losing millions over the bank holiday weekend
because of some archaic law??/
so much for being a pluralist society
and because of the grip the chruch has
everyone has to suffer and no one can buy a drink
people who are non christian must adhere to this rule too??
this would not be tolerated in any other country

i appeal to the legal brains here
can this be challenged in court ??
where did this law come from
whos the spark who signed this one into law

hotels are allowed sell alcohol on Good Friday!

I think pubs close 2 days a year!

jhegarty

Hotel bars can open to residents , so I image they would be in favour in the ban.

EL_Loco

Friday does not equal a bank holiday weekend. that is all.

Here we go again...

hinault

If the bar and hotel trade business model is entirely dependent upon opening on Good Friday, no wonder this country is a economic basketcase.

(pubs are closing each day throughout this country. And a lot of hotels are NAMA'ed anyhow).

jakdelad

hinault wrote: »

If the bar and hotel trade business model is entirely dependent upon opening on Good Friday, no wonder this country is a economic basketcase.

(pubs are closing each day throughout this country. And a lot of hotels are NAMA'ed anyhow).

someone give me a good reason the shops business es and everything else opens today for trade
but you cant buy a drink
what impression does this give to visitors and tourists

234

Misticles wrote: »

hotels are allowed sell alcohol on Good Friday!

I think pubs close 2 days a year!

Yes, but if you get rid of the restrictions on selling alcohol because we no longer want to recognise church holidays/rules then you would also have to do away with any time off/holidays for Good Friday and Easter Week as well; they would be based on the same justifiction. So overall the hotels/pubs would probably make a net loss as there would be no families on holiday breaks with the kids who are off school.

EL_Loco

I will concede the point that the actual pub itself is closed on good friday, so publicans are losing a day's trade BUT if you see the amount of drink being bought yesterday in anticipation of there being none available today I think the drinks industry itself probably does better out of it due to people over stocking.

I'm trying to find stats online but can't. I'd love to see the figures for drink bought yesterday. (or the Thursday before a good Friday).

MagicSean

234 wrote: »

Yes, but if you get rid of the restrictions on selling alcohol because we no longer want to recognise church holidays/rules then you would also have to do away with any time off/holidays for Good Friday and Easter Week as well; they would be based on the same justifiction. So overall the hotels/pubs would probably make a net loss as there would be no families on holiday breaks with the kids who are off school.

Also there would be no Christmas or Easter. And lets not forget that Sunday would be a regular day.

hinault

jakdelad wrote: »

someone give me a good reason the shops business es and everything else opens today for trade
but you cant buy a drink
what impression does this give to visitors and tourists

We're talking about the hotel and bar trade.
As I said if the hotel and bar trade business model is dependent upon whether or not they're open on Good Friday, then they're snookered anyhow.

As regards what impression closed pubs give to visitors and tourists? Tough.
Have you ever been to the continent? On sundays in Germany for example most shops are shut. Should I be put out? FFS :rolleyes:

jakdelad

whats the legal end of it
i thought we had a seperate church and state
surly this is another outdated law
anyone remember holy hour when the pubs closed from 2 to4
on a sunday how was that done away with
and can we not give this dry good friday the boot as well

i dont want to hear any whingers its only 2 days a year, rot

it infringes on my civil liberties to go out and have a drink today
why should that be ???

Paulw

jakdelad wrote: »

it infringes on my civil liberties to go out and have a drink today

No it doesn't. You can still go out and have a drink. You just can't purchase a drink in a pub/off-license today. But, there is nothing stopping you from having a drink.

If you want the law changed, then lobby your local TD, and see if they will propose a motion to have the law amended.

coylemj

Pubs being closed on Good Friday is a bonanza for the off-trade, people were buying trays of beer cans yesterday (as they do every Good Friday) as if they were about to bring in prohibition. Dunnes in Cornelscourt yesterday had three full pallets of beer outside the off-licence, Christmas Eve is nothing on Holy Thursday for off sales.

And please don't blame the catholic church, the reality is that publicans are glad to get the one day in the year when they can redecorate the premises without the risk that their regulars will go somewhere else and not come back. I should know, I spent every Good Friday for about 10 years painting the inside of my father's pub.

jakdelad

Paulw wrote: »

No it doesn't. You can still go out and have a drink. You just can't purchase a drink in a pub/off-license today. But, there is nothing stopping you from having a drink.

If you want the law changed, then lobby your local TD, and see if they will propose a motion to have the law amended.

why is there a law that says i cant buy a beer today??what is the reasoning

its the chuch s way of saying
we havent gone away you know

Paulw

jakdelad wrote: »

why is there a law that says i cant buy a beer today??

Why is there a law saying you must drive on the left side of the road? Why is there a law that says you can't drink alcohol in public? Why is there a law that says you can't throw your rubbish in the street?

It's the law. It was decided, voted upon and passed in to law by the Dail at the time. There are many reasons for many laws in this country.

If you don't like the law, you can talk to your local TD and see if he is prepared to table a motion to have the law changed. Otherwise, you will just have to live with it, or move country.

The_Snapper

jakdelad wrote: »

why in the year 2011
is has catholic church still got a grip on our country
the pubs and drink industry are losing millions over the bank holiday weekend
because of some archaic law??/
so much for being a pluralist society
and because of the grip the chruch has
everyone has to suffer and no one can buy a drink
people who are non christian must adhere to this rule too??
this would not be tolerated in any other country

i appeal to the legal brains here
can this be challenged in court ??
where did this law come from
whos the spark who signed this one into law

Agree with you here. Why cannot the law be changed to allow bars & pubs to open on Christmas Day & Good Friday?

Then the landlord could open or close on those days at his or her discretion. That would make sense to me.

If it is a church thing then is this not discrimination towards non believers?

Paulw

The_Snapper wrote: »

Why cannot the law be changed to allow bars & pubs to open on Christmas Day & Good Friday?

The law can be changed. That's why we have politicians, political parties, a Dail, etc. You just need enough people who want the law changed.

Of course, if you were Muslim, then the objection might be to why the pubs are open the other 363 days of the year. Where would you be then???

2 days a year is not a damage to the license trade, and if the pubs did want to be open, they are a powerful lobby group.

The_Snapper

Paulw wrote: »

The law can be changed. That's why we have politicians, political parties, a Dail, etc. You just need enough people who want the law changed.

Of course, if you were Muslim, then the objection might be to why the pubs are open the other 363 days of the year. Where would you be then???

2 days a year is not a damage to the license trade, and if the pubs did want to be open, they are a powerful lobby group.

Then the law should be changed and left at the landlords discretion.

Works fine in the UK, Muslim or not.

Wile E. Coyote

jakdelad wrote: »

its the chuch s way of saying
we havent gone away you know

The_Snapper wrote: »

If it is a church thing then is this not discrimination towards non believers?

Gotta love the Good Friday threads and the big church conspiracy that everyone throws out but half the country got today off and were happy with it. If your all so against the church I assume you'll be happy to abolish Christmas day, Saint Stephens day and Saint Patricks day as well seeing as the only reason you have those days off is that they are religious days.

jakdelad

Paulw wrote: »

Why is there a law saying you must drive on the left side of the road? Why is there a law that says you can't drink alcohol in public? Why is there a law that says you can't throw your rubbish in the street?

It's the law. It was decided, voted upon and passed in to law by the Dail at the time. There are many reasons for many laws in this country.

If you don't like the law, you can talk to your local TD and see if he is prepared to table a motion to have the law changed. Otherwise, you will just have to live with it, or move country.

this is the sort of ould plawmass they shove out, its the law
ya it was made by clergy and made into law by the govt of the time
you still have not made any valid reason as to why any citizen
cannot buy an alcoholic drink in any pub today
because you dont want to admit its a church law ,face it

Paulw

I personally don't care who made the law. I don't have a drink problem, so can do without alcohol for a day, without any side-effects.

The fact that the pubs are closed has never had a negative impact on me, and when I worked in the bar trade, I enjoyed the forced day off.

No matter who came up with the law, there are ways and means to change the law, if you feel that passionate about it. So what if it was on behalf of the church? As as has been highlighted, because of the church you get Christmas day, St Stephen's day, St Patrick's day off work. Are you also in favour of removing them from our holidays?

Posting and moaning on boards won't help change the law though. You need to lobby your TD.

Wile E. Coyote

Jakdelad - Are you happy to get rid of Saint Patricks day and Saint Stephens day and spend those days working? What do you think would effect the pub trade more? Closing today or not having the traditional piss ups on those days?

jakdelad

Paulw wrote: »

I personally don't care who made the law. I don't have a drink problem, so can do without alcohol for a day, without any side-effects.

The fact that the pubs are closed has never had a negative impact on me, and when I worked in the bar trade, I enjoyed the forced day off.

No matter who came up with the law, there are ways and means to change the law, if you feel that passionate about it. So what if it was on behalf of the church? As as has been highlighted, because of the church you get Christmas day, St Stephen's day, St Patrick's day off work. Are you also in favour of removing them from our holidays?

Posting and moaning on boards won't help change the law though. You need to lobby your TD.

i am not interested in st patricks day christmas
all i am trying to find out what is the reasoning alchohol cannot be sold today, being a christian holyday is not a good enough reason

Treora

jakdelad wrote: »

why in the year 2011
is has catholic church still got a grip on our country

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

The Irish are too lazy to change their constitution even though the power it there. http://www.constitution.ie/amending-the-constitution/default.asp?UserLang=EN

Our man in Havana

They would rather eat potatos.

Paulw

jakdelad wrote: »

all i am trying to find out what is the reasoning alchohol cannot be sold today, being a christian holyday is not a good enough reason

Try reading - INTOXICATING LIQUOR ACT, 2000 - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0017/index.html

That's why alcohol can't be sold on Good Friday.


“(1) Save as otherwise provided by this Act, it shall not be lawful for any person to sell or expose for sale any intoxicating liquor, or to open or keep open any premises for the sale of intoxicating liquor, or to permit any intoxicating liquor to be consumed on licensed premises—

(a) at any time on Christmas Day or Good Friday;

(b) on any other day, as specified hereunder, outside the times so specified in respect of it—

(i) Saint Patrick’s Day: between 12.30 p.m. and 12.30 a.m. on the following day;

(ii) the 23rd December: if it falls on a Sunday, between 10.30 a.m. and 11.30 p.m.;

(iii) Christmas Eve and the eve of Good Friday: between 10.30 a.m. and 11.30 p.m.;

(iv) the eve of any public holiday (other than Christmas Eve):

(I) if the eve falls on a weekday, between 10.30 a.m. and 12.30 a.m. on the following day, or

(II) if it falls on a Sunday, between 12.30 p.m. and 12.30 a.m. on the following day;

(v) any other Sunday (except a Saint Patrick’s Day which falls on a Sunday): between 12.30 p.m. and 11.00 p.m.;

(vi) any other Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday: between 10.30 a.m. and 11.30 p.m.; and

(vii) any other Thursday, Friday or Saturday: between 10.30 a.m. and 12.30 a.m. on the following day.

K.Flyer

I have to say I find it strange that modern 21st century Ireland still allows the Church to dictate to the state over the licensing laws. My understanding of the origins of this archaic law stem from the church wanting its followers to abstain from consuming alcohol on this day so that they could, with a clear mind, contemplate the significance of Good Friday.
It should be a freedom of choice. Personally I feel it should be down to the choice of the publican if he wants to stay open or not and the choice then falls on the individual person to abstain from consuming alcohol for that day if they wish. If the Holy Thursday off sales figures are anything to go by, the publicans, the government and tourist board would be delighted if the law was scrapped. As would probably most of the punters. I don't care one way or the other as I don't drink and havent been in a pub for years.

MagicSean

K.Flyer wrote: »

I have to say I find it strange that modern 21st century Ireland still allows the Church to dictate to the state over the licensing laws. My understanding of the origins of this archaic law stem from the church wanting its followers to abstain from consuming alcohol on this day so that they could, with a clear mind, contemplate the significance of Good Friday.
It should be a freedom of choice. Personally I feel it should be down to the choice of the publican if he wants to stay open or not and the choice then falls on the individual person to abstain from consuming alcohol for that day if they wish. If the Holy Thursday off sales figures are anything to go by, the publicans, the government and tourist board would be delighted if the law was scrapped. As would probably most of the punters. I don't care one way or the other as I don't drink and havent been in a pub for years.

I think if you look back the origins of most laws are religious.

coylemj

In days of yore practically nothing moved on Good Friday and it was initiated and policed by the catholic church. For example, at one stage there were no public dances at all during the whole of Lent and no cinema would dare open it's doors during holy week. Pubs being closed on Good Friday was part of this scene. Pubs used to also close on St. Patrick's Day and there was a convoluted rule (the 'bona fide') that attempted to prevent people drinking on Sundays.

In time the rules were overlooked/ignored/overturned and we have now reached the stage where almost every type of retail outlet opens on Good Friday, cinemas are open and it's pretty much a normal business day.

The exception as is obvious from this discussion is that the pubs are still closed on Good Friday but this situation today has noting to do with the catholic church. Remember that in our dear country we have legalised contraception and divorce and we have come as close as we can to gay marriage without actually calling it 'marriage' because that would require a constitutional referendum. In short, the catholic church has been pushed aside as far as civic society is concerned.

The reason the rule about Good Friday being a dry day is still with us is because the pub trade actually wants it to stay dry, unless you expect them to paint and decorate on Christmas Day. Good Friday is the only day of the year they can renovate and decorate the premises without losing business.

MagicSean

jakdelad wrote: »

i am not interested in st patricks day christmas
all i am trying to find out what is the reasoning alchohol cannot be sold today, being a christian holyday is not a good enough reason

For the same reason your employer has to give you Christmas day off or compensate you for working it.

jakdelad

k_mac wrote: »

For the same reason your employer has to give you Christmas day off or compensate you for working it.

oh so its because everyone got christmas day off
you balance it with not being able to purchase drink on good friday

wise up will you
it has nothing to do with christmas day
what a load of rot
i conclude no one can offer a valid reason as to why any iin the republic of ireland you cannot buy alcohol on a good friday
also heard of gards going into hotels to see if anyone was having a drink
then asking them if they were residents ..
just a to give you an inkling of the sort of country we re living in

The_Snapper

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

If your all so against the church I assume you'll be happy to abolish Christmas day, Saint Stephens day and Saint Patricks day as well seeing as the only reason you have those days off is that they are religious days.

To be honest, I see these days as just that. They are just days. I couldn't care less if they were abolished. They mean nothing to me, except that I am forbidden to pop to my local on xmas day & good friday. I'd rather work.

Paulw

jakdelad wrote: »

oh so its because everyone got christmas day off
you balance it with not being able to purchase drink on good friday

wise up will you
it has nothing to do with christmas day
what a load of rot
i conclude no one can offer a valid reason as to why any iin the republic of ireland you cannot buy alcohol on a good friday

You can't buy alcohol on Christmas day either. Do you want that changed too?

The valid reason why you can't buy alcohol is because in 1927 it was voted in to law, and even with updates to the law, this date is still listed as a day when you cannot sell alcohol. Simple as that.

MagicSean

jakdelad wrote: »

it has nothing to do with christmas day

Other than it is exactly the same rule for exactly the same reason.

hinault

jakdelad wrote: »

whats the legal end of it
i thought we had a seperate church and state
surly this is another outdated law
anyone remember holy hour when the pubs closed from 2 to4
on a sunday how was that done away with
and can we not give this dry good friday the boot as well

i dont want to hear any whingers its only 2 days a year, rot

it infringes on my civil liberties to go out and have a drink today
why should that be ???

I think you need to look in the mirror when you refer to whingers.

My civil liberties were infringed because I couldn't find a shop open on a Sunday in Germany.

jakdelad

k_mac wrote: »

Other than it is exactly the same rule for exactly the same reason.

and the reason being????????

this i have to hear

MagicSean

jakdelad wrote: »

and the reason being????????

this i have to hear

It's a religious thing. I thought you knew that.

jakdelad

jakdelad wrote: »

and the reason being????????

this i have to hear

You really are the worst form of troll. Why is not selling alcohol on Christmas and Easter the same? Wow.

hinault

jakdelad wrote: »

and the reason being????????

this i have to hear

Any chance of getting an answer about how my "civil liberties were infringed" when the shops were closed in Germany each Sunday every weekend?

jakdelad

Deleted User wrote: »

You really are the worst form of troll. Why is not selling alcohol on Christmas and Easter the same? Wow.

kayroo old cock how are you, nice to see ...does anyone really think god gives a fuk wheather anyone buys or takes a beer on good friday or christmas day??
do you think hes concerned with details like that???
and yes i should be allowed to buy alcohol anytime i like
i pay my taxes i shouldent be denied because of some pious crowd
have decided to nanny the nation as regards drink
we are a joke
imagine the tourists coming here
sorry sir you cannot buy a beer today because the catholic church ordained it into law years ago along with contraception
homosexuality etc
however we might just get there in an other hundred years

I was just commenting on how stupid you were making yourself out to be by not recognising the connection between the two days. I wasn't commenting on the law whatsoever.

MagicSean

jakdelad wrote: »

kayroo old cock how are you, nice to see ...does anyone really think god gives a fuk wheather anyone buys or takes a beer on good friday or christmas day??
do you think hes concerned with details like that???
and yes i should be allowed to buy alcohol anytime i like
i pay my taxes i shouldent be denied because of some pious crowd
have decided to nanny the nation as regards drink
we are a joke
imagine the tourists coming here
sorry sir you cannot buy a beer today because the catholic church ordained it into law years ago along with contraception
homosexuality etc
however we might just get there in an other hundred years

You'll demand your drink today but will happily not work Sundays Christmas or Easter. Do you not see a certain hypocrisy there?

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

You'll demand your drink today but will happily not work Sundays Christmas or Easter. Do you not see a certain hypocrisy there?

I actually think if we average out the alcohol intake on St.Patrick's Day with the total lack of alcohol on Good Friday we reach a happy average.

hinault

Might be easier if we all just ignored jakdelad ?

jakdelad is just trolling now.

jakdelad

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just commenting on how stupid you were making yourself out to be by not recognising the connection between the two days. I wasn't commenting on the law whatsoever.

really i dont care baby
i am off to the pub yessss my good friend has a pub and yes we re gonna party
happy easter guys without the religion of course

Yahew

jakdelad wrote: »

really i dont care baby
i am off to the pub yessss my good friend has a pub and yes we re gonna party
happy easter guys without the religion of course

I'd just be happy if you used a full stop occasionally.

234

Jakdelad,
Although it amost hurts to say this I agree with you in principle; though you posts on this thread are aggrevating everybody. I think that it is old fashioned and outmoded to ban the sale of alcohol on Good Friday. However this doesn't bother me that much so I'm as happy for the law to stay as it is. If you think that you should be able to go for a drink on Good Friday (and why not?) then get on the phone to your TD, go in to meet him/her, write to them. Write to everybody in government you can think of. Set up a pressure group, lobby the Oireachtas, start a campaign, run for the Dail, run for the Seanad, run for President- but please stop whining on this forum about something that is a non-issue.

coylemj

234 wrote: »

Jakdelad,
Although it amost hurts to say this I agree with you in principle; though you posts on this thread are aggrevating everybody.

Every thread he starts aggravates people, just read some of his other output. He is obviously relishing the attention he generates for himself, you can work out for yourself what his motivation is.

nuac

As K-Mac says, if you want to abolish all church holidays bang goes Christmas and Easter. It is only two days a year and drinkers should live with it.

In parts of Scotland hard to get a drink anywhere on a Sunday

And then you have the countries where they might cut off your hand if caught with alcohol.

Del2005

234 wrote: »

Yes, but if you get rid of the restrictions on selling alcohol because we no longer want to recognise church holidays/rules then you would also have to do away with any time off/holidays for Good Friday and Easter Week as well; they would be based on the same justifiction. So overall the hotels/pubs would probably make a net loss as there would be no families on holiday breaks with the kids who are off school.

Eh no. We're entitled to 10 public holidays, they just choose to base them on church holidays. I'd be my much happier having days off in the summer then in the middle of Winter when it's frozen solid outside.

k_mac wrote: »

Also there would be no Christmas or Easter. And lets not forget that Sunday would be a regular day.

For a large part of the population Sunday is a regular day as are bank holidays.

There are people who work shift and may only have a Friday night off once in a blue moon, they should be allowed enjoy themselves the same as others.

But as others have said, if the publicans really wanted it they'd have it gone years ago. Instead we have the sly knock on the side door and smoke away.