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Solicitor quits over 'corruption in judiciary'

  • 18-04-2011 2:22pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/solicitor-quits-over-corruption-in-judiciary-501779.html
    A solicitor announced in court today that he has finished practising law claiming there was “corruption” in the judiciary.

    Solicitor Martin Coen had been vacating a hearing date for a client at the Dublin District Court, in the Criminal Courts of Justice complex in the city centre. He then made a declaration that he would not continue to work as a solicitor.

    He told presiding Judge Hugh O'Donnell that: “From this day forwards I am no longer practising as a solicitor.”

    He claimed that this was “because of judicial corruption within the system particularly in Blanchardstown District Court.”

    After the case Mr Coen, whose Dublin city centre firm have practised law since 2004, confirmed to reporters that he had resigned. “I do not want to go into details but I am finishing my practice,” he said.

    “I will let matters speak for themselves and I will leave it at that,” he said, declining to comment further.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/solicitor-quits-over-corruption-in-judiciary-501779.html#ixzz1Jsu6UqcB

    Whats up with that?

    Seems extraordinary!


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    Seems like the type of thing that if you allege, you must be prepared to back up and pursue. If he is correct then he'd better do so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    Seems like the type of thing that if you allege, you must be prepared to back up and pursue. If he is correct then he'd better do so.

    "IF" he's correct???
    This country is corrupt to the core. None of the 'white collar' b@5ards have been locked up. Very few 'blue collar' b@5ards have been locked up. This country is based on one rule for Peter & another rule for Paul. Its unadulterated bu11s#1t. Fair play to him for taking a stand and walking out, not the best of times to be dropping your career but he obviously believes he is right in doing what he has done. The whole system needs a shake down from top to bottom. Our legislation is from biblical times. The cave men of the stone age probably had a better system than this ridiculous system, they need to pull their heads out of the clouds and start moving with the times.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Seems like the type of thing that if you allege, you must be prepared to back up and pursue. If he is correct then he'd better do so.

    Its a big statement to make and one would hope he has something to back it up.

    I doubt he has.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Can he not now be hauled before a judge for contempt of court?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭234


    Probably scandalising the court, but I think that's just a species of contempt. I agree that if you make big statments like that then you need to back them up. Just quitting proves nothing. If he does have evidence of corruption then I'd say he has a moral duty to put it into the public domain.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    godtabh wrote: »
    Its a big statement to make and one would hope he has something to back it up.

    I doubt he has.

    Maybe your doubt is right, maybe not time will tell. & the system is a farce. It is rotten to the core, politicians, bankers, developers. The vast majority of the 'governing' body/ies is/are rotten corrupt and disfunctional.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Ireland is indeed full of corruption but this sounds to me more like a young solicitor (?- his practice begun in 2004) who lost his head for a split second in some tete au tete with the District Court judge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    RATM wrote: »
    Ireland is indeed full of corruption but this sounds to me more like a young solicitor (?- his practice begun in 2004) who lost his head for a split second in some tete au tete with the District Court judge.

    Or he had enough of the extreme level of corruption with in the system and decided he no longer wanted to be part of it. The sooner people open their eyes and pay attention to the levels of corruption that go on in this country, the sooner it can be rectified. A vast majority of the nation are too naive to accept what goes on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Certainly Dub777 there is corruption. But I don't reckon it exists in the judiciary and there has been no evidence I'm aware of to suggest otherwise. Are you saying that some of our judges are corrupt ? Or do you just mean 'the system' in general ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭MajorMax


    He who smelt it, dealt it!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    RATM wrote: »
    Certainly Dub777 there is corruption. But I don't reckon it exists in the judiciary and there has been no evidence I'm aware of to suggest otherwise. Are you saying that some of our judges are corrupt ? Or do you just mean 'the system' in general ?

    The whole shibang is rotten from top down.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    DUB777 wrote: »
    The whole shibang is rotten from top down.

    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?

    Sensationalist nonsense???
    Have we forgotten about a Big Ignorant Fat F#~ker from Offaly??? And his rounds of golf with the man who has Anglo Irish bank fisting everyone in this nation in the @55??? Or what about that incompetent predecessor Taoiseach before the BIFFO, bertie 'the b0110x' ahern with his " i never knew i needed to open a bank account" or what about his " Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something" The only f#~kin thing that b0110x changed was the bank balance in his wife's name. {SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL} Or the the mahon tribunal regarding a majority of police involved in corruption in donegal, pointing the finger at anyone just to bury a case. Read the papers, wake the f~#k up and pull your head out of the sand! " sesationalist nonsense":confused:

    What about the pr1cks bating people down at the shell to sea site? There is plenty of footage online of excessive force being used on what initially was a peaceful protest. Or back to good auld garda sargent[a sargent] finbarr hickey & his cannabis factory 77 plants at various stages of growth from vegging to flowering to plants drying in a shed out his back garden. Personal use?? My @r5e!! And anyone especially the judge to believe that is living with their head up in the clouds.

    Any normal person would have been banged up pending trial waiting for the manditory sentence, but no not for a corrupt "sargent"copper such as finbarr. He got 3 years suspended sentence for over "€30,000" worth of weed.{SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL}

    If your so depraved & wont splash out and buy a paper to see whats going on around you, its all there. If you read the papers you wouldn't be looking for "proof", you've obviously got internet access have a look there. Its all out there. You need to wake up your being starved of the real world, living in a pipe dream - :pac::pac:sensationalist nonsense:pac::pac: snap out of it:D remove your head from whichever slurry pit its been seasoning in the majority of your life.







    Mod note: User was banned for this post. It is not only highly insulting to the OP in question, but it's filled with defamatory statements. Plus it's completely off topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭2040


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?

    Sensationalist nonsense???
    Have we forgotten about a Big Ignorant Fat F#~ker from Offaly??? And his rounds of golf with the man who has Anglo Irish bank fisting everyone in this nation in the @55??? Or what about that incompetent predecessor Taoiseach before the BIFFO, bertie 'the b0110x' ahern with his " i never knew i needed to open a bank account" or what about his " Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something" The only f#~kin thing that b0110x changed was the bank balance in his wife's name. {SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL} Or the the mahon tribunal regarding a majority of police involved in corruption in donegal, pointing the finger at anyone just to bury a case. Read the papers, wake the f~#k up and pull your head out of the sand! " sesationalist nonsense":confused:

    What about the pr1cks bating people down at the shell to sea site? There is plenty of footage online of excessive force being used on what initially was a peaceful protest. Or back to good auld garda sargent[a sargent] finbarr hickey & his cannabis factory 77 plants at various stages of growth from vegging to flowering to plants drying in a shed out his back garden. Personal use?? My @r5e!! And anyone especially the judge to believe that is living with their head up in the clouds.

    Any normal person would have been banged up pending trial waiting for the manditory sentence, but no not for a corrupt "sargent"copper such as finbarr. He got 3 years suspended sentence for over "€30,000" worth of weed.{SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL}

    If your so depraved & wont splash out and buy a paper to see whats going on around you, its all there. If you read the papers you wouldn't be looking for "proof", you've obviously got internet access have a look there. Its all out there. You need to wake up your being starved of the real world, living in a pipe dream - :pac::pac:sensationalist nonsense:pac::pac: snap out of it:D remove your head from whichever slurry pit its been seasoning in the majority of your life.



    What does any of that have to do with the judiciary?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?

    Sensationalist nonsense???
    Have we forgotten about a Big Ignorant Fat F#~ker from Offaly??? And his rounds of golf with the man who has Anglo Irish bank fisting everyone in this nation in the @55??? Or what about that incompetent predecessor Taoiseach before the BIFFO, bertie 'the b0110x' ahern with his " i never knew i needed to open a bank account" or what about his " Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something" The only f#~kin thing that b0110x changed was the bank balance in his wife's name. {SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL} Or the the mahon tribunal regarding a majority of police involved in corruption in donegal, pointing the finger at anyone just to bury a case. Read the papers, wake the f~#k up and pull your head out of the sand! " sesationalist nonsense":confused:

    What about the pr1cks bating people down at the shell to sea site? There is plenty of footage online of excessive force being used on what initially was a peaceful protest. Or back to good auld garda sargent[a sargent] finbarr hickey & his cannabis factory 77 plants at various stages of growth from vegging to flowering to plants drying in a shed out his back garden. Personal use?? My @r5e!! And anyone especially the judge to believe that is living with their head up in the clouds.

    Any normal person would have been banged up pending trial waiting for the manditory sentence, but no not for a corrupt "sargent"copper such as finbarr. He got 3 years suspended sentence for over "€30,000" worth of weed.{SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL}

    If your so depraved & wont splash out and buy a paper to see whats going on around you, its all there. If you read the papers you wouldn't be looking for "proof", you've obviously got internet access have a look there. Its all out there. You need to wake up your being starved of the real world, living in a pipe dream - :pac::pac:sensationalist nonsense:pac::pac: snap out of it:D remove your head from whichever slurry pit its been seasoning in the majority of your life.



    More sensationalist nonsense. What you need is the same as that solicitor needs i.e. PROOF.
    Cowan met that banker but there is no proof that anything unlawful happened between them although i am not too convinced on that one myself. But i cannot prove it and neither can you.
    The Sheel to Sea protesters gave as good as they got. They blocked the roads and tried to prevent people from going to their lawful work. The Gardai are given batons for that very purpose and were ordered to use them in certain cases.
    Ex- Sergeant Hickey was caught growing cannabis plants and who caught him? Members of the very force he served in and thank God they did. Where is the corruption there?
    He was growing cannabis which is illegal, I believe there was some lad caught driving while under the influence of it recently. very dangerous and against the law so we wouldn't want anything corrupting our drivers now, would we?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    More sensationalist nonsense. What you need is the same as that solicitor needs i.e. PROOF.
    Cowan met that banker but there is no proof that anything unlawful happened between them although i am not too convinced on that one myself. But i cannot prove it and neither can you.
    The Sheel to Sea protesters gave as good as they got. They blocked the roads and tried to prevent people from going to their lawful work. The Gardai are given batons for that very purpose and were ordered to use them in certain cases.
    Ex- Sergeant Hickey was caught growing cannabis plants and who caught him? Members of the very force he served in and thank God they did. Where is the corruption there?
    He was growing cannabis which is illegal, I believe there was some lad caught driving while under the influence of it recently. very dangerous and against the law so we wouldn't want anything corrupting our drivers now, would we?
    dub777 while a little off the wall,, is more or less right
    and as for the super clean judiciary these are the same people who refused to take a pay cut while everyone else did
    these are from the same coven who not so many years ago
    sent children to letterfrack and other horrible places
    the same judges who wrongly sentenced nicky kelly for train robbery
    while not all are bad
    theres no system to weed out the bad judges
    therein lies the problem
    takes a lot to tackle a judge
    theres lots of law but very little justice


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    SNIPPED was caught growing cannabis plants and who caught him? Members of the very force he served in and thank God they did. Where is the corruption there?
    He was growing cannabis which is illegal, I believe there was some lad caught driving while under the influence of it recently. very dangerous and against the law so we wouldn't want anything corrupting our drivers now, would we?[/QUOTE]

    Where is the corruption for SNIPPED??? Wake up man, the 'mandatory' sentence for that is a minimum of 10 years, & that pr1ck got 3 years SUSPENDED??
    What do you mean where is the corruption? He got away with it & the passports too. He was a rotten cop to the core & is still strolling around out of prison. Where is the corruption?? Its ok for him to do it and not the average civilian?? B0110X!:mad:!

    & regarding me 'under the influence' as I said before I wasn't. It was smoked over 8 hours prior to driving through the amber light smarty pants :p
    If you knew anything about smoking yourself you'd know! Its funny how people can pass judgement on things they claim to know about. It another prime example of our farcical 'system'. You can have a pint and are fit to drive with trace amounts hours later, but not a spilff?? :confused: you clearly know nothing about it & god knows how many junkies drive home from their methadone clinics, but you hear f~#k all about them being prosecuted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Fair play to the man for saying what he feels. Its a pity more professionals dont speak up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Ex- Sergeant Hickey was caught growing cannabis plants and who caught him? Members of the very force he served in and thank God they did. Where is the corruption there?
    He was growing cannabis which is illegal, I believe there was some lad caught driving while under the influence of it recently. very dangerous and against the law so we wouldn't want anything corrupting our drivers now, would we?

    Where is the corruption for Hickey??? Wake up man, the 'mandatory' sentence for that is a minimum of 10 years, & that pr1ck got 3 years SUSPENDED??
    What do you mean where is the corruption? He got away with it & the passports too. He was a rotten cop to the core & is still strolling around out of prison. Where is the corruption?? Its ok for him to do it and not the average civilian?? B0110X!:mad:!

    & regarding me 'under the influence' as I said before I wasn't. It was smoked over 8 hours prior to driving through the amber light smarty pants :p
    If you knew anything about smoking yourself you'd know! Its funny how people can pass judgement on things they claim to know about. It another prime example of our farcical 'system'. You can have a pint and are fit to drive with trace amounts hours later, but not a spilff?? :confused: you clearly know nothing about it & god knows how many junkies drive home from their methadone clinics, but you hear f~#k all about them being prosecuted.[/QUOTE]

    I read somewhere recently that Hickey was in jail. Is this wrong?
    If nobody bought the cannabis then nobody would grow it.
    I agree that the law should be the same for everyone and that the corrupt bankers etc got away with it. All their assets should have been seized imo.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?

    Sensationalist nonsense???
    Have we forgotten about a Big Ignorant Fat F#~ker from Offaly??? And his rounds of golf with the man who has Anglo Irish bank fisting everyone in this nation in the @55??? Or what about that incompetent predecessor Taoiseach before the BIFFO, bertie 'the b0110x' ahern with his " i never knew i needed to open a bank account" or what about his " Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something" The only f#~kin thing that b0110x changed was the bank balance in his wife's name. {SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL} Or the the mahon tribunal regarding a majority of police involved in corruption in donegal, pointing the finger at anyone just to bury a case. Read the papers, wake the f~#k up and pull your head out of the sand! " sesationalist nonsense":confused:

    What about the pr1cks bating people down at the shell to sea site? There is plenty of footage online of excessive force being used on what initially was a peaceful protest. Or back to good auld garda sargent[a sargent] finbarr hickey & his cannabis factory 77 plants at various stages of growth from vegging to flowering to plants drying in a shed out his back garden. Personal use?? My @r5e!! And anyone especially the judge to believe that is living with their head up in the clouds.

    Any normal person would have been banged up pending trial waiting for the manditory sentence, but no not for a corrupt "sargent"copper such as finbarr. He got 3 years suspended sentence for over "€30,000" worth of weed.{SNIP - DEFAMATORY MATERIAL}

    If your so depraved & wont splash out and buy a paper to see whats going on around you, its all there. If you read the papers you wouldn't be looking for "proof", you've obviously got internet access have a look there. Its all out there. You need to wake up your being starved of the real world, living in a pipe dream - :pac::pac:sensationalist nonsense:pac::pac: snap out of it:D remove your head from whichever slurry pit its been seasoning in the majority of your life.



    1. None of this has anything to do with the judiciary.

    2. LOL at editing your post to correct a typo :D


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    jakdelad wrote: »
    dub777 while a little off the wall,, is more or less right
    and as for the super clean judiciary these are the same people who refused to take a pay cut while everyone else did
    these are from the same coven who not so many years ago
    sent children to letterfrack and other horrible places
    the same judges who wrongly sentenced nicky kelly for train robbery
    while not all are bad
    theres no system to weed out the bad judges
    therein lies the problem
    takes a lot to tackle a judge
    theres lots of law but very little justice

    3 things here.

    1. Judges cannot have their wages reduced for a very very good reason and they shouldn't be pressured into doing so either.

    2. Anyone who criticises a judge for sentencing nicky kelly and also criticises lenient sentences or how the system "only protects the criminals" is a hypocrite. Not saying you are, just pointing it out.

    3. Almost everything you say is like some weird free verse poem that I find immediately annoying given you never have a point and every most of your supposed points with some off hand pseudo-aphorism that is totally unsubstantiated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Fred Cohen


    3 things here.

    1. Judges cannot have their wages reduced for a very very good reason and they shouldn't be pressured into doing so either.
    How are Judges any different than any other decision making public servants?
    2. Anyone who criticises a judge for sentencing nicky kelly and also criticises lenient sentences or how the system "only protects the criminals" is a hypocrite. Not saying you are, just pointing it out.
    What are you saying here? Are you suggesting Nicky Kelly is guilty of
    something or he received a light sentence?
    3. Almost everything you say is like some weird free verse poem that I find immediately annoying given you never have a point and every most of your supposed points with some off hand pseudo-aphorism that is totally unsubstantiated.
    To stay on a literary theme, I'd refer you to Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 381 ✭✭480905


    Now let's not forget your man in Kerry who bought child porn and when the gardai came to arrest him , the warrant was out of time..... Corrupt as befu"cked.

    Martin Coen worked in the Blanchardstown court for as long as I've known him. He is as straight and honourable a man I've ever known . People are pontificating here about "Proof"... Martin hasn't made any specific allegations against anybody. He hasn't accused A particular Judge... He may have inside knowledge as to how business is done in the Courts, and so MAY have good reason for his decision. Time will tell......


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    How are Judges any different than any other decision making public servants?

    Not all decision making public servants have a specific Article dedicated to them in the Constitution specifically precluding their wages from being reduced while in office.

    What are you saying here? Are you suggesting Nicky Kelly is guilty of
    something or he received a light sentence?

    No. I am saying that the legal system is designed to protect the innocent, as it should be, so that miscarriages of justice such as the above mentioned incident are avoided. When people say that only the criminals are protected they are missing the point, we are all protected.
    To stay on a literary theme, I'd refer you to Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78

    The most contextually mis-quoted bit of Shakespeare eh? I refer you rather to George Orwell;
    We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.

    The obvious, in this instance, being that despite all the nonsense spouted in this thread nobody has shown a scrap of evidence that a single judge is corrupt.

    Even the Kerry reference above. Nobody is claiming he was corrupt. Plenty wrong there to be sure but certainly no corruption.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Fred Cohen


    Not all decision making public servants have a specific Article dedicated to them in the Constitution specifically precluding their wages from being reduced while in office.
    But why?



    No. I am saying that the legal system is designed to protect the innocent, as it should be, so that miscarriages of justice such as the above mentioned incident are avoided. When people say that only the criminals are protected they are missing the point, we are all protected.
    But it didn't, also how many have been charged following the Donegal enquiry?
    The most contextually mis-quoted bit of Shakespeare eh? I refer you rather to George Orwell;
    All animals are equal but some are more equal than others?

    The obvious, in this instance, being that despite all the nonsense spouted in this thread nobody has shown a scrap of evidence that a single judge is corrupt.

    Even the Kerry reference above. Nobody is claiming he was corrupt. Plenty wrong there to be sure but certainly no corruption.
    Given that that was an international operation and the Guards involved in serving the warrant pointed out the wrong date and were told to execute it anyway and this was the only invalid warrant in all the countries in the world involved, yes we really covered ourselves in glory that morning.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    But why?

    To stop corruption. Also to stop politicians forcing the judiciary to do what they say by hitting their wages. It ensures judicial independence.

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    But it didn't, also how many have been charged following the Donegal enquiry?

    That was about Gardaí. We are talking about the judiciary.

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    All animals are equal but some are more equal than others?

    I really hope you realise how your two quotes so far are connected.

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    Given that that was an international operation and the Guards involved in serving the warrant pointed out the wrong date and were told to execute it anyway and this was the only invalid warrant in all the countries in the world involved, yes we really covered ourselves in glory that morning.

    I didn't hold it up as a shining example of justice. I just stated that there was no allegation of corruption on the part of a judge, which there wasn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Fred Cohen


    To stop corruption. Also to stop politicians forcing the judiciary to do what they say by hitting their wages. It ensures judicial independence.
    Again I will point you back to my original question how are they any different to other public servants?
    That was about Gardaí. We are talking about the judiciary.
    Sorry did you read the tribunal report, who condemned these people to gaol.
    I really hope you realise how your two quotes so far are connected.
    Agreed. But do agree with George Orwells?


    I didn't hold it up as a shining example of justice. I just stated that there was no allegation of corruption on the part of a judge, which there wasn't.
    There was a lot of unsavioury things said about that judge but he managed to resign on full pension after 12 months sick leave 3 days before he was due to to be questioned?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    Again I will point you back to my original question how are they any different to other public servants?

    Really? The entire point of this thread is that the judiciary must be above reproach and the constitution reflects that by trying to ensure they are never subject to influence by the Government. They are different because their duty and responsibility is so fundamental to our society that they must be protected from all outside influence to absolutely guarantee judicial independence.

    When a High Court judge makes a ruling it becomes law binding on all citizens. That's a pretty serious power and the people trusted to wield that power must be independent.

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    Sorry did you read the tribunal report, who condemned these people to gaol.

    There were nine reports. None of them touched on the role of the judiciary in any way whatsoever. Have you read the reports?

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    Agreed. But do agree with George Orwells?

    First, you can't agree with that statement as it is not a proposition of fact it is a statement of hope. You can't agree that you hope you understand the connection.

    Secondly Orwell doesn't want me to agree with that quote so your question is ill-phrased and, obviously, completely irrelevant anyway.

    Fred Cohen wrote: »
    There was a lot of unsavioury things said about that judge but he managed to resign on full pension after 12 months sick leave 3 days before he was due to to be questioned?

    Any issue of corruption? Lots of bad things going on there but is anyone accusing any judge of corruption in that situation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    godtabh wrote: »
    Seems like the type of thing that if you allege, you must be prepared to back up and pursue. If he is correct then he'd better do so.
    godtabh wrote: »
    Its a big statement to make and one would hope he has something to back it up.

    I doubt he has.


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Maybe your doubt is right, maybe not time will tell. & the system is a farce. It is rotten to the core, politicians, bankers, developers. The vast majority of the 'governing' body/ies is/are rotten corrupt and disfunctional.
    RATM wrote: »
    Certainly Dub777 there is corruption. But I don't reckon it exists in the judiciary and there has been no evidence I'm aware of to suggest otherwise. Are you saying that some of our judges are corrupt ? Or do you just mean 'the system' in general ?
    Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    Got any proof to back up your sensationalist nonsense?

    DUB777 wrote: »
    found dead in a car with a Ukrainian prostitute who was 17[t.

    The ukrainian woman in the car at the time of the accident sued for libel and was not a protitute nor 17 and in fact was 29 years old and with a university degree for translation and was certainly an interpreter.Why not have some respect for the truth.

    Ireland is corrupt because it doen't understand or is blind or naive to why it is corrupt. It is almost just a stupid country. Please allow me to explain my comment:

    In a recent study The Transparency international for Ireland organisation did find that ireland while not suffering from petty bribes and so forth is legally corrupt. It suffers from legal corruption. Now while this might be found at different levels of business and affairs, i just want to focus on the reactionary force that this legal corruption has on irelands judicial system in the following paragraphs.

    One important weakness in the irish judstice system is that there is no rehabilitation act in ireland. Irelands judicary breeds criminals like rabbits with out ever rehabilitating them. It also incarcerates innocent people. However Ireland unlike most other countries has several flaws that create a vicious circle.

    1. No rehabilitation system means that there is a lawless class in ireland.

    2.
    People may or may not be aware that the institution that is mountjoy prison is run on ancient british laws dating back before 19th and 18th century when church and state readily executed people.

    3. This prison and it's people are actually outside traditonal law and operate under a seperate law- prison law. This is an alien world where our citzens never return from and where executions are a part of life.

    4. The innnocent project has arrived in ireland, it has had a huge success in USA Uk and many other countries but ireland with be it's first real Nemisis because ireland is stupid. It's not so much corruption but a lack of accountability for it's corruption. The innocent project exploded to succces by using DNA to free innocent prisoners. It depended on Authortities to have kept samples from cold case's murder and rape and other serious offences from decades earlier. So far they have managed to free hundreds of prisoners using this practice and have received dozens of irish cases already.

    The innocence project will stop dead in it's tracks in ireland because you can be certain that the Forenisc and technical bureau have disposed of all the samples. They reguarly just throw away crtical evidence because they have no regard for the innocent or rehabilitaion of our citizens. They know they are corrupt and despit them being the moral leaders of country and well aware of rough justice program and Barry sheck and innocence projects as far back as almost 30 years ago they will nonethless operate contrary to the last shimmering hope every other western country has at the very least afforded it's citizens the right to test evidence.

    Ireland remains alone in this regard. With an alienated prison population and prison laws exploiting laws from 17th and 18th century to incarcerate and undermine our constitution and hence right to life and equally decadent judicary, you realise that ireland still operates it's gallows and hangmen while our moral leaders furtively dispose of test Samples needed to free the innocent and bring our country back to sanity.

    Taxpayers just spent what might eventually cost 200 million on the Moiority Tribunial. If you go to molesworth street (goverment publications) and look at the goverment expenditure on the justice department you will discover that ireland has spent a mere 2 million an annum increasing miserably and incremently on criminal examination and Forensic scientiific labatory in the detection of serious crime. Yet they have spent what might amount to 70 years of that budget on a the worthless Morioity tribunial the result of which was 100 page binder about estat digi phone.

    Our garda admit they are not equipped to provide security for Obama or the Queen let alone police an entire country. We now have to explain to our citizens that few corrupt officals and gardai have almost destroyed any chance of resolving miscarriges of justice in this country. What i wonder is when this all eventually blows up how are you going to stop the reactionary forces when you have no budget thanks to Morority tribunial and other vast wastes of tax payers money to provide security.

    True corruption is not just pettty bribes and brown envelopes it is also a Judicial system that operates without regard for justice which ireland will no longer have if we can't resolve miscarriages of justice. People create poverty not god or nature. We are poor because of certain people. These people continue to impoverish us. People are not even amused or entertained by the character of our courts anymore.

    There are gardai in this country that could transform our judicial system and lives of our citizens with one phonecall to the director of the innocence project and one signed affidavit bringing years of corruption to light. The code of silence seems to be above God and Country an omerta that they bring to the grave.

    These gardai need to respect our courts and be honest and more truthful and reveal those dark secrets because it is their secrecy and darkness and perjury that breeds life into what can only be described as irelands fifth dimension with old laws outside the constitution.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    Not all decision making public servants have a specific Article dedicated to them in the Constitution specifically precluding their wages from being reduced while in office.




    No. I am saying that the legal system is designed to protect the innocent, as it should be, so that miscarriages of justice such as the above mentioned incident are avoided. When people say that only the criminals are protected they are missing the point, we are all protected.



    The most contextually mis-quoted bit of Shakespeare eh? I refer you rather to George Orwell;



    The obvious, in this instance, being that despite all the nonsense spouted in this thread nobody has shown a scrap of evidence that a single judge is corrupt.

    Even the Kerry reference above. Nobody is claiming he was corrupt. Plenty wrong there to be sure but certainly no corruption.

    There is no corruption? Wake up!!! Smell the coffee/roses whatever the saying is in your end of the country!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭DUB777


    ,<snip, this is heresay and as such leaves Boards open to libel> I've asked a couple of Russian friends, neither of whom know each other here or knew each other back in Russia & they all told me the same thing. Ukrainians need a licence to work in the Russian civil service AND you must be over eighteen being Ukrainian to work as a Russian civil servant!!

    A) SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LICENCE TO BE A CIVIL SERVANT
    AND
    B) SHE WAS 17.
    Now who are you going to believe, the REAL truth or a softened twisted version of the truth?? Obviously the latter in your case.

    That was quite a moving speech, appeared to be very whole hearted & most important of all the TRUTH. This country is malfunctioning with its laws from the biblical period!! And the only people who can stand up to it and put a stop to it is the Public.

    We need more people like Des Nix, to stand up to this farcical "system" we call 'justice'. Again its getting to be a burnt out phrase, The place is corrupt to the core & Joe Soap is suffering repeatedly from all this & the Joe Soaps out there have done nothing about it & remain motionless regarding doing nothing about it. A serious Public revolt is probably what it will take to exterminate the caliber of corruption with in this nation. Small 5 & 10,000 people marches wont do anything to extinguish the problems underlying in this economy. We need numbers & action to wipe these problems out. Marches and public opinions do f#~k all, the ante needs to be stepped up on the publics behalf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭234


    DUB777 wrote: »

    This country is malfunctioning with its laws from the biblical period!!
    Examples?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    DUB777 wrote: »
    ,<snip, this is heresay and as such leaves Boards open to libel>
    I've asked a couple of Russian friends, neither of whom know each other here or knew each other back in Russia & they all told me the same thing. Ukrainians need a licence to work in the Russian civil service AND you must be over eighteen being Ukrainian to work as a Russian civil servant!!

    A) SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LICENCE TO BE A CIVIL SERVANT
    AND
    B) SHE WAS 17.
    Now who are you going to believe, the REAL truth or a softened twisted version of the truth?? Obviously the latter in your case.

    That was quite a moving speech, appeared to be very whole hearted & most important of all the TRUTH. This country is malfunctioning with its laws from the biblical period!! And the only people who can stand up to it and put a stop to it is the Public.

    We need more people like Des Nix, to stand up to this farcical "system" we call 'justice'. Again its getting to be a burnt out phrase, The place is corrupt to the core & Joe Soap is suffering repeatedly from all this & the Joe Soaps out there have done nothing about it & remain motionless regarding doing nothing about it. A serious Public revolt is probably what it will take to exterminate the caliber of corruption with in this nation. Small 5 & 10,000 people marches wont do anything to extinguish the problems underlying in this economy. We need numbers & action to wipe these problems out. Marches and public opinions do f#~k all, the ante needs to be stepped up on the publics behalf.

    Appreciate your comment DUB777 but the woman was 29 years old and qualified not to mention a friend of the chauffeurs family. If you want to complain about something complain about Emmet Stagg and child trafficking victims in Dublin.


    Lawlor translator speaks out after crash
    Sunday, 06 November 2005

    The Ukranian translator who survived the car crash that killed former TD Liam Lawlor issued a statement to the media on Thursday. Julia Kushnir (29) explained that she is a law clerk and speaks English, Czech and Russian. For the past 14 years she has been living in Prague where she attends university and hopes to qualify as a lawyer in January. Ms Kushner first met Mr Lawlor three months ago and had occasionally acted as a translator and intermediary for him. The driver of the car, who also lost his life, was Ruslan Suliamanov, a Russian businessman who had previous dealings with Mr Lawlor in Prague and who was married to a close friend of Ms Kushner. It was her intention to stay with the Suliamanov family after dropping Mr Lawlor at his hotel. The car crash occurred when a man and woman stepped out in front of the Mercedes, forcing Mr Suliamanov to swerve and lose control of the vehicle. Ms Kushnir remembers no more until she came to in the ambulance. She had been sitting in the front seat and it was the left hand side of the car which took the full impact of the collision. In the statement, issued through her Irish lawyers, Ms Kushnir said she was shocked by the "reckless, vengeful and ill-corroborated" articles published in several newspapers. The Sunday Independent, along with several other newspapers, had suggested that Mr Lawlor had been accompanied by a teenage prostitute. Since returning to Prague she has come under pressure from journalists and, while she gave no interviews, some invented and published "quotes".




    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2kCpo4joDqQJ:www.emigrant.ie/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D3078+kushnir+lawlor+russia&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8&source=www.google.com


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    DUB777 wrote: »
    ,<snip, this is heresay and as such leaves Boards open to libel>
    I've asked a couple of Russian friends, neither of whom know each other here or knew each other back in Russia & they all told me the same thing. Ukrainians need a licence to work in the Russian civil service AND you must be over eighteen being Ukrainian to work as a Russian civil servant!!

    A) SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LICENCE TO BE A CIVIL SERVANT
    AND
    B) SHE WAS 17.
    Now who are you going to believe, the REAL truth or a softened twisted version of the truth?? Obviously the latter in your case.

    That was quite a moving speech, appeared to be very whole hearted & most important of all the TRUTH. This country is malfunctioning with its laws from the biblical period!! And the only people who can stand up to it and put a stop to it is the Public.

    We need more people like Des Nix, to stand up to this farcical "system" we call 'justice'. Again its getting to be a burnt out phrase, The place is corrupt to the core & Joe Soap is suffering repeatedly from all this & the Joe Soaps out there have done nothing about it & remain motionless regarding doing nothing about it. A serious Public revolt is probably what it will take to exterminate the caliber of corruption with in this nation. Small 5 & 10,000 people marches wont do anything to extinguish the problems underlying in this economy. We need numbers & action to wipe these problems out. Marches and public opinions do f#~k all, the ante needs to be stepped up on the publics behalf.

    So are you saying that our media is in the pockets of the Government and spewing out lies on their behalf ? With the way they have successfully split the Public and Private Sectors in the Economic debate it would not surprise me one bit BUT have you any evidence to support your claims ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    to get back to the original story ..

    I suspect yer man had a tiff with a judge and did all this on impluse.

    Will be back in courts sooner than later, if he ever actually resigns properly in the first place.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    InReality wrote: »
    to get back to the original story ..

    I suspect yer man had a tiff with a judge and did all this on impluse.

    Will be back in courts sooner than later, if he ever actually resigns properly in the first place.

    Yes he will be back. Wait 'till he sees how hard it is to make money without the court income, free legal aid etc. he'll soon realize which side his bread is buttered.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭nuac


    Is Dubtax777 serious regarding the lady who was in Liam Lawlor's car.

    I understand she later obtained libel damages from some of the media who printed that most irresponsible, hurtful, and false story.

    Regarding the same posters earlier comments I have been working in the courts for over 40 years and I never came across any suggestion or trace of corruption amongst the judiciary.

    It may sound like Life of Brian, but along with harbours, railways, civil service etc the British did leave a good legal system. We improved on it by appointing paid professional district judges instead of the amateur magistrates of the British system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    3 things here.

    1. Judges cannot have their wages reduced for a very very good reason and they shouldn't be pressured into doing so either.

    2. Anyone who criticises a judge for sentencing nicky kelly and also criticises lenient sentences or how the system "only protects the criminals" is a hypocrite. Not saying you are, just pointing it out.

    3. Almost everything you say is like some weird free verse poem that I find immediately annoying given you never have a point and every most of your supposed points with some off hand pseudo-aphorism that is totally unsubstantiated.
    1 judges cannot have their wages reduced
    what planet you on???

    2 how many judges were ever sacked in the ireland???? yeah thought so

    3 and yes you too can bullsh1t with the best of them
    ingentia locuti percutere solent homunculus
    WHO ARE YOU????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    jakdelad wrote: »
    1 judges cannot have their wages reduced
    what planet you on???

    2 how many judges were ever sacked in the ireland???? yeah thought so

    3 and yes you too can bullsh1t with the best of them
    ingentia locuti percutere solent homunculus
    WHO ARE YOU????

    1 & 2 are for very good reasons. If judges could have their wages reduced/be removed from their positions they could be put under political pressure by the government. Think about it for a minute.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    jakdelad wrote: »
    1 judges cannot have their wages reduced
    what planet you on???

    2 how many judges were ever sacked in the ireland???? yeah thought so

    3 and yes you too can bullsh1t with the best of them
    ingentia locuti percutere solent homunculus
    WHO ARE YOU????

    1. They can't. This isn't an opinion it's a fact. Article 35.5 of the Constitution. Look it up. I'm on planet IactuallyknowwhatIamtalkingabout.

    2. How many judges have ever had cause to be sacked that haven't resigned when asked to do so? Yeah, thought so.

    3. My latin is a little rusty but given your posts so far I'd say si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

    You accusing me of bull**** is laughable given your total lack of actual input into this debate. Anymore unsubstantiated drivel you wish to spout?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    1. They can't. This isn't an opinion it's a fact. Article 35.5 of the Constitution. Look it up. I'm on planet IactuallyknowwhatIamtalkingabout.

    2. How many judges have ever had cause to be sacked that haven't resigned when asked to do so? Yeah, thought so.

    3. My latin is a little rusty but given your posts so far I'd say si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

    You accusing me of bull**** is laughable given your total lack of actual input into this debate. Anymore unsubstantiated drivel you wish to spout?
    oh ya the judge with the dodgy hard disk in kerry ,we wont go there
    ya all fine upstanding people , whatever you say dear [outstreatches and yawns]
    we have the best judges money can buy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    also time to revisit article 35.5 bigtime
    stultus facile invenitur


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jakdelad wrote: »
    oh ya the judge with the dodgy hard disk in kerry ,we wont go there
    ya all fine upstanding people , whatever you say dear [outstreatches and yawns]
    we have the best judges money can buy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    also time to revisit article 35.5 bigtime
    stultus facile invenitur


    In all fairness that Kerry judge had to leave his job after that news broke.
    Another judge who fell asleep during a trial was removed too afaik.
    I don't think they are corrupt at all and there is no evidence to say they are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    DUB777 wrote: »
    Where is the corruption for Hickey??? Wake up man, the 'mandatory' sentence for that is a minimum of 10 years, & that pr1ck got 3 years SUSPENDED??

    The mandatory sentence for what is ten years?
    DUB777 wrote: »
    What do you mean where is the corruption? He got away with it & the passports too. He was a rotten cop to the core & is still strolling around out of prison. Where is the corruption?? Its ok for him to do it and not the average civilian?? B0110X!:mad:!

    There are people walking the streets that have been convicted for far more serious crimes and have never done a day in prison. It's not down to any corruption just a flawed system.
    DUB777 wrote: »
    & regarding me 'under the influence' as I said before I wasn't. It was smoked over 8 hours prior to driving through the amber light smarty pants :p
    If you knew anything about smoking yourself you'd know! Its funny how people can pass judgement on things they claim to know about. It another prime example of our farcical 'system'. You can have a pint and are fit to drive with trace amounts hours later, but not a spilff??

    Alcohol and cannabis are two completely different chemicals so yes they affect the body differently.
    480905 wrote: »
    Now let's not forget your man in Kerry who bought child porn and when the gardai came to arrest him , the warrant was out of time..... Corrupt as befu"cked.

    This was on corrupt judge, not a whole system.
    480905 wrote: »
    Martin Coen worked in the Blanchardstown court for as long as I've known him. He is as straight and honourable a man I've ever known . People are pontificating here about "Proof"... Martin hasn't made any specific allegations against anybody. He hasn't accused A particular Judge... He may have inside knowledge as to how business is done in the Courts, and so MAY have good reason for his decision. Time will tell......

    Actually I think the word pontificating would be more suited to a person who makes wild far-reaching accusations without any kind of support for these claims.
    DUB777 wrote: »
    ,<snip, this is heresay and as such leaves Boards open to libel>
    I've asked a couple of Russian friends, neither of whom know each other here or knew each other back in Russia & they all told me the same thing. Ukrainians need a licence to work in the Russian civil service AND you must be over eighteen being Ukrainian to work as a Russian civil servant!!

    A) SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LICENCE TO BE A CIVIL SERVANT
    AND
    B) SHE WAS 17.
    Now who are you going to believe, the REAL truth or a softened twisted version of the truth?? Obviously the latter in your case.

    You mean are we going to accept the facts or the opinions of your Russian ex-pats and a tabloid? Hmmm, difficult one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭jakdelad


    In all fairness that Kerry judge had to leave his job after that news broke.
    Another judge who fell asleep during a trial was removed too afaik.
    I don't think they are corrupt at all and there is no evidence to say they are.
    the majority are i suppose ok but they live in a different world to the ordinary man
    i mean what do you have to do in this country to be charged with murder its a joke
    and as regard sentence?? whats life now?? with remission about 7to 10 years as i said a joke
    i would like to see a system like the uk
    where a majistrate court works
    its 3 ordinary folk with an expert to advise them
    fairer and cheaper too
    the whole legal system needs serious reform
    hopefully this govt will put a stop to people milking the system
    the tribunals have cost the public millions


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    jakdelad wrote: »
    i mean what do you have to do in this country to be charged with murder its a joke

    Killing someone with malice usually works.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    So...did this fella resign from his own law firm then ?

    Seems fairly counterproductive.

    He should have made himself redundant.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    jakdelad wrote: »
    oh ya the judge with the dodgy hard disk in kerry ,we wont go there
    ya all fine upstanding people , whatever you say dear [outstreatches and yawns]
    we have the best judges money can buy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    also time to revisit article 35.5 bigtime
    stultus facile invenitur

    Please Take Note of the Following:

    In none of jakdelad or DUB777's posts have they given a single example of corruption. Not one. They have raised high profile cases, misinterpreted the contents of the Morris Reports and thrown muck at a judge who certainly was the subject of some serious questions about his private conduct but in terms of corruption neither have given a single example.

    What we have been treated to is a series of off-hand comments, polemics and borderline defamatory statements which have muddied, but crucially never addressed, the issue at hand. Particularly the tribunal comment at the end of jakdelad's last post which is completely irrelevant.

    I've a challenge for you jakdelad. Give me one actual example of judicial corruption in this country. Just one example. If you reply with anything other than that example or want to rant on about Moriarty or Morris then fine but it will just prove my point, that you are totally without basis in what you say.



    On a side note I am happy to see that jakdelad realises he was totally incorrect about the judge's wages and clearly hasn't got a bean what he is talking about with regards Art. 35.5.
    On the point of magistrates courts they are roughly the equivalent of our district courts and would never ever be in a position to hand out a sentence of 10 years to anyone, mandatory or not, as crimes of that severity are handled at a higher level by a Judge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,057 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    jakdelad wrote: »
    the majority are i suppose ok but they live in a different world to the ordinary man
    i mean what do you have to do in this country to be charged with murder its a joke
    and as regard sentence?? whats life now?? with remission about 7to 10 years as i said a joke
    i would like to see a system like the uk
    where a majistrate court works
    its 3 ordinary folk with an expert to advise them
    fairer and cheaper too
    the whole legal system needs serious reform
    hopefully this govt will put a stop to people milking the system
    the tribunals have cost the public millions

    But it is the Director of Public Prosecutions who decides what charges are preferred against someone, not the judge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    But it is the Director of Public Prosecutions who decides what charges are preferred against someone, not the judge.

    And a jury who choses manslaughter over murder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    Please Take Note of the Following:

    In none of jakdelad or DUB777's posts have they given a single example of corruption. Not one. They have raised high profile cases, misinterpreted the contents of the Morris Reports and thrown muck at a judge who certainly was the subject of some serious questions about his private conduct but in terms of corruption neither have given a single example.

    What we have been treated to is a series of off-hand comments, polemics and borderline defamatory statements which have muddied, but crucially never addressed, the issue at hand. Particularly the tribunal comment at the end of jakdelad's last post which is completely irrelevant.

    I've a challenge for you jakdelad. Give me one actual example of judicial corruption in this country. Just one example. If you reply with anything other than that example or want to rant on about Moriarty or Morris then fine but it will just prove my point, that you are totally without basis in what you say.



    On a side note I am happy to see that jakdelad realises he was totally incorrect about the judge's wages and clearly hasn't got a bean what he is talking about with regards Art. 35.5.
    On the point of magistrates courts they are roughly the equivalent of our district courts and would never ever be in a position to hand out a sentence of 10 years to anyone, mandatory or not, as crimes of that severity are handled at a higher level by a Judge.

    I could give dozens fo examples of unfair practices conducted through the irish courts. You can call it corruption or arrogance or what ever you like. The courts are controlled by the DPP and other powerful organisations, that hold sway over the courts. The individual has little chance against them and the services available to the poor man are usually not good.

    The Garda like most police forces are dishonest, they are no exception and in fact are a little worse than our european counterparts i.e Italian prosecution in the Knox case. The gardai are more careless in the arrest and handling of evidence. However the judicary are engaging in a break from reality in that they think our Gardai and Forensic are above suggestion. I have seen this word used in criminal appeals, where the judicary are quick to ensure that no suggestion of foul play is attributed to our police system i.e the DPP.

    The fact is that a critical and skilled attention is required, i have seen judges admonish superintendent's in coourt over the most trivial things. How ever in a serious criminal appeal the judicary seem to require very high standards of proof in order to criticise the Detectives, DPP, other professionals that are clealry being dishonest.

    In courts of old and very likely today Judges sit there admonishing the individual garda and even dressing down superintendents in front of the public like they are the kings of ireland but when it comes to putting it on paper they are just little kittens in the hands of the minister for justice.

    Irish justice is a rarity with Judges that would never actually cross their superiors..who ever they are. I have to say the Judge who worked on the Dean Lyons Case was an exception and was almost biased against the gardai . I know of much greater proof of Garda behaviour and hope that we develop a standard that allows for more controversial reports concerning Gardai and Dpp behaviour. It is unacceptable that gardai can collude in their reports and expect to go unchallenged.


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