Problem!!!

wildfowler94

Rigth lads my club has a problem... A certain group of lads living in the parish has aqqired there firearms liences and guns. they have permisson of 1 farmer to shoot his land but continuosly keep entering other land in the parish, they have not joined the club and have no insurance. they have been asked to join but wont! The club is spending money rearing phesants and ducks sowing cover crops reintroudcing partridge, vermin control and crop protection then these lads go and shoot all round them! the farmers in the area say only club members and we have told them about the dangers of no insurance and the like but they just laugh and basicly say **** off!! it seriously pissing us off!!:mad::mad::mad: Your help comments and suggestions would be apprechied!! thanks.

podge.243

I know wot your goin through :mad: i was in a gun club a few years ago we just got together as a club and the land owner's and approach'd the farmer that let them tits on his land and we talked to him let him know its ruining the gun club and he ran them you cud try that. hope you get it sorted lad.

bazza888

did they say they have no insurance?do ye know the guys well?would the local guard not get on to them for going in to land without permission?

rugerman

i think every gun club has same problem. when shooting ban was in i was goin around with a bag of barley them lads goin around shootin the birds its frustrating but what do u do.put up plenty signs and ring the law every time they trespass

Cass

Be tough, be cruel and be swift.

If you go the "nicey-nicey" approach and try and speak they will continue to tell you to F-off. They are poaching. Shooting on land they have no rights to.

As was mentioned ring the Gardai everytime they are on your lands, and give no warning to them that you have done so. Also a word in the ear of the farmer that gave them permission. Explain that they are poaching on lands they have no permission to be on. If he gets enough complaints he might see them as more trouble than they're worth.


Sounds cruel, but from what ypu've said there will be no reasoning with them, plus they have no quams about doing as they are doing so why should you not be a "calculated" in your response?

bazza888

if a farmer gives permission to someone is that not up to him?i tought these guys had permission on land close by but the problem was they strayed into gun club land which is totally wrong!

Spunk84

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Rigth lads my club has a problem... A certain group of lads living in the parish has aqqired there firearms liences and guns. they have permisson of 1 farmer to shoot his land but continuosly keep entering other land in the parish, they have not joined the club and have no insurance. they have been asked to join but wont! The club is spending money rearing phesants and ducks sowing cover crops reintroudcing partridge, vermin control and crop protection then these lads go and shoot all round them! the farmers in the area say only club members and we have told them about the dangers of no insurance and the like but they just laugh and basicly say **** off!! it seriously pissing us off!!:mad::mad::mad: Your help comments and suggestions would be apprechied!! thanks.

round up aload of the gun club members and confront them, i think if theres just 1 or 2 people confronting them they wont take heed but if there 6 + then they might think you mean business.

yessam

Every time these lads are caught trespassing they have to be confrunted and them reported to the garda.
The club will have to get organised on how to tackle the problem

1. Identify the culprets

2. Confront them every time they are caught trespassing

3. Take note of location, time and date

4. Check with the farmer if he has given them permission to shoot

5. Report full details to garda

This is all you can do, but belive me if you as a club do this prcedure enough times it will stop. if enough of this kind of reports go into the garda, they will sort it out.
Act tough, no more nicey nice.

homerhop

What you have to do is get the land owners who's land they are being caught on to make an official complaint as well as the club secretary, the garda have to act on it. If your club want to take it further,and to prosecute it is the club secretary who will have to bring the case.

bruskey

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Rigth lads my club has a problem... A certain group of lads living in the parish has aqqired there firearms liences and guns. they have permisson of 1 farmer to shoot his land but continuosly keep entering other land in the parish, they have not joined the club and have no insurance. they have been asked to join but wont! The club is spending money rearing phesants and ducks sowing cover crops reintroudcing partridge, vermin control and crop protection then these lads go and shoot all round them! the farmers in the area say only club members and we have told them about the dangers of no insurance and the like but they just laugh and basicly say **** off!! it seriously pissing us off!!:mad::mad::mad: Your help comments and suggestions would be apprechied!! thanks.

This has become a major problem for all clubs since money tightened.Firstly how did they get licences with only one signature, im sure you need 3 farmers signatures to apply for a licence.Appeal to the farmer that gave them permission about the trouble that will arise and the costs he faces if these poachers have an accident.Be very diplomatic but firm and the word COST always gets results. We have the same problem and approached the farmer with our concerns,time will tell on that one.No birds will be released on that ground this year but every fox,mink and squirrel we trap will be.No game no shooting.Best of luck.;););)

terminator2

maybe letting the air out of a few tyres is in order ...........;);)

bunny shooter

Unless you own the land/sporting rights you can do NOTHING to them.

Every club, including the two I'm in, have the same problem

The Gardai will not appreciate gun club members ringing them about land they don't own or have the sporting rights to.

If the landowner/s have stated club members only get them to sign over the shooting rights to the club ................. good luck with that

homerhop

I have to disagree with ya there Bunny, we have had 2 instances over the season with repeat offenders,the club members contacted the station and they arrived out at their house that night and issued a warning that anymore complaints and their guns would be confinscated, we also had the landowner on another occasion going into the station making a complaint that our club were the only ones who had permission to shoot his land and once again the culprits were visited by the boys in blue and issued a warning.

Our club brought a case many years ago against lads who had been caught shooting on numerous occasions, on the day the judge inquired if the club had its lands postered and also if we advertised in the local paper what lands were preserved, both of which we had done.The club won its case.

bunny shooter

homerhop wrote: »

I have to disagree with ya there Bunny,

Work away

As with most things that go down the legal route it can very much depend on who you're talking to

I know of instances that back up my assertion

homerhop

We were fighting a losing battle as those involved were drinking buddies of some of the more senior members in the local station and at the time there was some gentle words of advice passed our way to drop it.

We get a letter every year now off the local farmers saying they are giving the club permission to shoot their lands, in return we have to give each land owner a list of club members and proof of insurance.

bunny shooter

homerhop wrote: »

We were fighting a losing battle as those involved were drinking buddies of some of the more senior members in the local station and at the time there was some gentle words of advice passed our way to drop it.

:rolleyes: I know you're pains

homerhop wrote: »

We get a letter every year now off the local farmers saying they are giving the club permission to shoot their lands, in return we have to give each land owner a list of club members and proof of insurance.

Great if you can swing it

Landowners around me generally wouldn't sign over shooting rights, which is their right.

homerhop

We are lucky enough that way Bunny, we find that they are always in contact with one and other and as soon as we asked for something the next landowner asked what was such and such doing, so all we needed was one to start the ball rolling so to speak.

bunny shooter

homerhop wrote: »

We are lucky enough that way Bunny, we find that they are always in contact with one and other and as soon as we asked for something the next landowner asked what was such and such doing, so all we needed was one to start the ball rolling so to speak.

We used have that too until a few muppets caused problems :rolleyes: Now we keep as low as low a profile as we can. A lot of good shooting ground was lost to the club :mad:

pestcontroller

First and foremost keep everything above board. Do everything in your power to keep your birds on your land with feeders and drinkers even when there's plenty grub during the summer. Buy a digital camera for the club and take photos of any trespassers to show the guards. Make sure all your signage is clearly visible so these lads can't plead ignorance when there guns are hopefully being confiscated. Best of luck:)

kieran1141

Just to say to all the young gun club members out there, dont allow yourself to be driven by older members getting you to spread lies and hate about non members, not saying this is the case in your club but over 30 years in clubs have seen a lot of this, have 4 clubs in a 10 mile radius of me and did NOT join the last 2 years took out my own insurance, but farmers have come to me and 1 farmer told me 4 young members of a club came into his yard and the things they said about me, and other non members, if it flies it dies and all that sh*t, 3 farmers rang and 2 others called, they even said i put a claim in against a young farmers and destroyed him, all this has done now,has turn around and shot themselves in the foot as onely today farmer call and told me he has taken lease of 200 acres on club land and has shooting right aswell and iam to go with him tomorrow so he can show me where it is, i released 60 birds last year and shot 6, the garda here have said if they hear any more complaints from clubs they will go to the farmers and get them to put up no shooting sighns, another farmer they went to fell around the place laughing and he is friends with these members who are farmers aswell, he said to them, i cant put him out he's here 33years longer than myself, and as for the member that said let the air out of there tyres well that was all the go 20 years ago with superglue in your car door locks, but that backfired aswell, so hopefully when you see someone that is not a member of your club dont think he is a pocher, i know there is always the greedy bas***ds out there, but that is not going to change. iam sure the club shot 40-50 of my cocks last year, but thats life..... There will never be the perfect club........ as the old saying goes, do an irish man a favour, he'll never forgive you....

homerhop

Thats easily solved for us kieran, every year when we go around giving the farmers the names of the member in our club, we always ask is there anyone that they are allowing to shoot on their lands who is not a member. We are advised if they have and everyone in the club is notified during the AGM or word passed on if they are not present at the meeting.

bazza888

what would you think of a farmer giving someone permission to shoot on the same land as the club shoot,if it was only vermin ie fox or the odd bunny they took?im confused as to weather the guys here mean they want farners not to give guys permission near club land or on club land at all or just that you dont want tresspassers ie a guy who has permission 3fields over from clubland but decides to jump the fence onto the clubs land?

homerhop

bazza888 wrote: »

what would you think of a farmer giving someone permission to shoot on the same land as the club shoot,if it was only vermin ie fox or the odd bunny they took?im confused as to weather the guys here mean they want farners not to give guys permission near club land or on club land at all or just that you dont want tresspassers ie a guy who has permission 3fields over from clubland but decides to jump the fence onto the clubs land?

Lads have to be realistic about it, a club has the shooting of the land only because the farmer lets them, now if he lets other people shoot it as well that is his right. In our club we let the farmers know who are in our club and ask if they are allowing anyone else to shoot. That way it saves conflict and seems to be a system for both parties. When the local farmers see someone they know dont have permission to be on their lands they notify the club secretary or chairman.
bazz from our clubs point of view, we have a problem with lads who just drive around and going in where they have no pernission, or local lads who neither want to join a club or have the good manners to ask the landowner if they mind them having a shot.

kieran1141

homerhop wrote: »

Lads have to be realistic about it, a club has the shooting of the land only because the farmer lets them, now if he lets other people shoot it as well that is his right. In our club we let the farmers know who are in our club and ask if they are allowing anyone else to shoot. That way it saves conflict and seems to be a system for both parties. When the local farmers see someone they know dont have permission to be on their lands they notify the club secretary or chairman.
bazz from our clubs point of view, we have a problem with lads who just drive around and going in where they have no pernission, or local lads who neither want to join a club or have the good manners to ask the landowner if they mind them having a shot.

thats great if it works for your club, and i let 20 cocks off in 1 place last year and on the opening morn there was a strange jeep, i said nothing but was told later cops were called,these lads had travelled 50 mile to shoot and had no permission, thats not right, just seem to me since the hard times have struck clubs have lost the plot around here anyway, and you know if you stay annoying a farmer about who is on and is not on his land they dont be long getting sick of it, have seen this mabey 4-5 times over the last 30 year and all that happens is people with permission fall out with clubs, and the bas***d pochers still carry on what they have always done, drive along the road see a cock pull the car and hunt 1 ditch and shoot it, i see this every year of my hunting life. Wish i had the answer to help fix this.

bazza888

thats a good idea at least you dont end up with a guy whos doing no harm with his tyres let down etc,i dont shoot pheasants and have no shotgun id never go where i dont have permission either,but iv also heard guys say they dont want lads not in clubs shooting permissions around club land even with farmers permission,im not talking bout the type of guy who drives round with no permission shooting everything he sees.homerhops idea is good one

kieran1141

bazza888 wrote: »

thats a good idea at least you dont end up with a guy whos doing no harm with his tyres let down etc,i dont shoot pheasants and have no shotgun id never go where i dont have permission either,but iv also heard guys say they dont want lads not in clubs shooting permissions around club land even with farmers permission,im not talking bout the type of guy who drives round with no permission shooting everything he sees.homerhops idea is good one

a bazz you will see in another year or 2 things will get so bad with this recession, nobody will care who goes where, they will have enough troubles, even the pochers will have enough problems, its always been the same in hard time, make me laugh in the good times nobody gave a sh*t,and everybody was doing the same as they are now. times change, people dont. You would onely go warped in the head going around after these guys trying to catch them.

Gerry.L

Lads dont be letting air out of tyres or keying cars. I hunt plenty of my neighbours lands, people I have known for over 20 years, people I often have over for dinner. And I dont know how many times, my stuff and friends stuff would be vandalised as Im not recognised as a club member and automatically labbelled a poacher. And to be honest Im sick to the hilt off it :mad:

Last year my cousins brand new car (2 weeks old) was keyed, tyres slashed and doors glued. Luckily someone had a trail cam hidden and it was pointed right at the car and we werent long finding the 2 boys. Needless to say they were out an awful fortune paying the bills, banned from the club, ended up in court and damn near lost their licenses.

terminator2

Gerry.L wrote: »

Lads dont be letting air out of tyres or keying cars. I hunt plenty of my neighbours lands, people I have known for over 20 years, people I often have over for dinner. And I dont know how many times, my stuff and friends stuff would be vandalised as Im not recognised as a club member and automatically labbelled a poacher. And to be honest Im sick to the hilt off it :mad:

Last year my cousins brand new car (2 weeks old) was keyed, tyres slashed and doors glued. Luckily someone had a trail cam hidden and it was pointed right at the car and we werent long finding the 2 boys. Needless to say they were out an awful fortune paying the bills, banned from the club, ended up in court and damn near lost their licenses.

would you not join the local gun club? ,......but you dont mind shooting their phesants

kieran1141

Gerry.L wrote: »

Lads dont be letting air out of tyres or keying cars. I hunt plenty of my neighbours lands, people I have known for over 20 years, people I often have over for dinner. And I dont know how many times, my stuff and friends stuff would be vandalised as Im not recognised as a club member and automatically labbelled a poacher. And to be honest Im sick to the hilt off it :mad:

Last year my cousins brand new car (2 weeks old) was keyed, tyres slashed and doors glued. Luckily someone had a trail cam hidden and it was pointed right at the car and we werent long finding the 2 boys. Needless to say they were out an awful fortune paying the bills, banned from the club, ended up in court and damn near lost their licenses.

good few years back a few club members were caught putting superglue in the car door locks, they ran but were seen, 2 lads went to farmer and told him, farmer rang the club, told them he wanted the locks paid for, they said they could'nt do that, that would be admitting liability , farmer rang the cops told them who done it and they had to pay without going to court, they said they were told what to do by older members, farmer said he wanted no club members on his land, i had air let out of all my tyres and sign left on window to keep out, just seen other post there about shooting all the clubs pheasants, as i said i shot 6 this year and let off 60, club shot mine but i dont mind, every club lol seem to think they own every pheasant, seems it does not change where ever you go, That is the point iam tryin to make the club can not put there arms around the word, but they will try. and as for joining club, that exactly why i left after 30 years.

Sparks

Sometimes I don't understand people's language in here. "Shooting without permission" for example. It's poaching. Call it what it is...

And at least the gun club in the OP's post was happy to take in new members - I've lost count of the threads on here about clubs who just won't accept new members - if they were suffering from poachers like the OP describes, it makes their case a lot harder, as you'd have to explain to the Judge (if you ever got that far) why you didn't accept memebership applications from the accused. Which is a bit of a random thought, but there you go...

kieran1141

Sparks wrote: »

Sometimes I don't understand people's language in here. "Shooting without permission" for example. It's poaching. Call it what it is...

And at least the gun club in the OP's post was happy to take in new members - I've lost count of the threads on here about clubs who just won't accept new members - if they were suffering from poachers like the OP describes, it makes their case a lot harder, as you'd have to explain to the Judge (if you ever got that far) why you didn't accept memebership applications from the accused. Which is a bit of a random thought, but there you go...

true what sparks is saying, and i will leave it on that point, better the devil you know, most these people are not allowed in the clubs, as i said already all clubs are not the same, was just saying all this fighting and arguing never sorted antin, so in my case i just could'nt look at it any longer and left.

Gerry.L

terminator2 wrote: »

would you not join the local gun club? ,......but you dont mind shooting their phesants

Well in fairness now I have being shooting that land for more years then I care to remember, and the gun club only got permission maybe 4 years ago Id say. So I dont feel the need to pay just because a gun club suddenly moved in. Its their problem.

And aside from that, the few extra pheasents Id get could be called compensation for the hassle (and finanical loss) Ive had to put up with.

terminator2

not really an excuse in my book jerry......same sort of bs i hear every other day.....

Spunk84

Gerry.L wrote: »

Well in fairness now I have being shooting that land for more years then I care to remember, and the gun club only got permission maybe 4 years ago Id say. So I dont feel the need to pay just because a gun club suddenly moved in. Its their problem.

And aside from that, the few extra pheasents Id get could be called compensation for the hassle (and finanical loss) Ive had to put up with.

If you have permission to be there then tell the Gun Club who you are and what car you have. As for shooting their birds that takes the biscuit no wonder there not happy with you being there:eek:There is so much preparations going into to raising birds and then you come along and let fly

If i seen anyone other than our gun club members on the land with a pheasant i would take it off them in the field or at their car, Its the Gun Clubs property and it should be treated as theft if you shoot their birds:cool:

kieran1141

this is whats wrong, a man has permission to shoot land, and a gun club member thinks he can come up and take a bird off him because he is not a member, this is crazy you dont own the land haven't even the right to stop anyone, the onely one that can go near him is the farmer that owns the land, this is why i am out of a club, thinking you can put your arms around the world, if someone pulled me on a farm i would ring the farmer, and tell him he wants to take the bird, he would run the club if not the club the member that pulled me, and i would ring the cops and report the club, this is what causes more harm than good for clubs, unless the club have shooting rights of the land, they better keep well clear of people that have permission.....Thats just a fact...... waiting at peoples cars .how are ya. Thank god i am not in a club.....

bazza888

iv never shot a pheasant so this may be a silly question how do you know if they bird belongs to the club are they marked or tagged or something?

fathersymes

bazza888 wrote: »

iv never shot a pheasant so this may be a silly question how do you know if they bird belongs to the club are they marked or tagged or something?

Some clubs or syndicates will tag their released birds, we generally assume an untagged bird is wild.

Spunk84

kieran1141 wrote: »

this is whats wrong, a man has permission to shoot land, and a gun club member thinks he can come up and take a bird off him because he is not a member, this is crazy you dont own the land haven't even the right to stop anyone, the onely one that can go near him is the farmer that owns the land, this is why i am out of a club, thinking you can put your arms around the world, if someone pulled me on a farm i would ring the farmer, and tell him he wants to take the bird, he would run the club if not the club the member that pulled me, and i would ring the cops and report the club, this is what causes more harm than good for clubs, unless the club have shooting rights of the land, they better keep well clear of people that have permission.....Thats just a fact...... waiting at peoples cars .how are ya. Thank god i am not in a club.....

And would you say to the cops? I shot a gun clubs pheasant and they want it back:rolleyes:

bazza888 wrote: »

iv never shot a pheasant so this may be a silly question how do you know if they bird belongs to the club are they marked or tagged or something?

theres a barcode on them:rolleyes:

bazza888

you must be ages scanning them birds you shoot:rolleyes:

Spunk84

quicker to stop off in Tescos:rolleyes:

Dusty87

Spunk84 wrote: »

If you have permission to be there then tell the Gun Club who you are and what car you have. As for shooting their birds that takes the biscuit no wonder there not happy with you being there:eek:There is so much preparations going into to raising birds and then you come along and let fly

If i seen anyone other than our gun club members on the land with a pheasant i would take it off them in the field or at their car, Its the Gun Clubs property and it should be treated as theft if you shoot their birds:cool:

spunk, iv released birds the last few years. Built pens, paid for feed and reared them. I joined a club this year and they thought it fine to shoot my families land, and neighbouring permissions. Did i ring the gaurd's telling them 'they shot the birds i released to the wild'? No i didn as i released them to the wild. They were ****ed off one farmers lands because of the bag they had on the 1st and he hadn seen them before. It works both ways. If a man has permission to shoot on farmer joe's land and so does the gun club, trying to take a bird off him dosn look good for you. Yea im disappointed i didn get to shoot my birds, but thats the game with releasing them. If i wanted to get a fair return i would have kept them in a pen and ringed their necks on saturday for sunday roast.

terminator2

would it not be better to approach the gun club bury the hatchet ,so to speak ,maybe join the gun club ,help out ,make a few friends,......generally ive found shooting men over the years to be funny folk , but when you get to know them they are the best in the world,and they put an awful lot in the whole year round,then along comes yourself with the excuse,my grandfather used to shoot here,and start shooting all around them...........sorry gerry but heard that story played on a lot of violins......better to take the diplomatic approach ,youll get much more satisfaction come november when that rooster gets up in front of you.BTW i shoot land where i have permission but i would only shoot it after the local gun club was informed by the landowner and i park my car beside his house:D:D and i never make it a killing spree take my two birds and go .....also i only visit each permission once a year and always get invited back

kieran1141

Spunk84 wrote: »

And would you say to the cops? I shot a gun clubs pheasant and they want it back:rolleyes:
no i would say to the cops, there is a mad man who does not own the land, land that i have permission to shoot and want the pheasant i shot, that would be funny, i understand you have club in your blood at the moment, but over time that will change when you realise that all these things are unimportant and your just recking your own head,you will have to be careful about approching anybody that has permission to shoot these lands, because when you get in trouble the club will NOT stand beside you, best of luck to club and yourself, it is great to be free from all that bs. finished with this thread as it will not get anywhere.


theres a barcode on them:rolleyes:

barcode or no barcode as far as club is concerned they own them all, because nobody else is to go shooting onely club member, so for all you non member out there, how dear you step onto land that you have permission to shoot, this feels like iam in a club again, iam off no more replies.

bunny shooter

kieran1141 wrote: »

barcode or no barcode as far as club is concerned they own them all, because nobody else is to go shooting onely club member, so for all you non member out there, how dear you step onto land that you have permission to shoot, this feels like iam in a club again, iam off no more replies.

I have agreed with a lot of what you were syaing on this thread up to this post.

Now you're just being silly about it :rolleyes:

If the landowner gives individuals and the local club permission ye should count yourselves lucky. Lots of land is "closed" as a result of this kind of argument. Squabbling with the landowner over who should have shooting rights on HIS land will end up with him kicking EVERYONE out ! If individuals have shooting rights ask them to join club. If they don't just get on with it.

It wasn't me!

I'm looking into joining the local club at the moment as I personally wouldn't feel right shooting released birds that I hadn't had any input into, but if the local club were pressuring me into joining because I had permissions on land they also shared? I'd feel pretty put out. Respect works both ways. Because I want to shoot birds, I'll join them, but there's no call to be muscling lads off permissions just because they *might* shoot a few birds either. After all, who gets a 100% return on their releases?

Spunk84

kieran1141 wrote: »

barcode or no barcode as far as club is concerned they own them all, because nobody else is to go shooting onely club member, so for all you non member out there, how dear you step onto land that you have permission to shoot, this feels like iam in a club again, iam off no more replies.

I didn't say nothing about not letting you shoot the permission on gun club land, I said if i seen you with a pheasant I would take it off you! if you weren't a paying member !!! 99% who shoot our club land with permission is known to us as well as their cars, it's the ones with the D reg cars who travel down to kildare, get out of their cars and let fly get back in their car and go home:mad: I have alot of permission in Meath and Wicklow to shoot over gun clubs lands but I ask them first and will not shoot unless they say it's okay!

I will also stop people on land if there not known to me and in the past I have had farmers thanking me for doing so because they didn't want to face lads with Lurchers wrecking their land. And the same lads told me they had permission, told me the farmers name and even his mobile:eek: and the same farmer said he had no idea who they were?

kieran1141

Spunk84 wrote: »

I didn't say nothing about not letting you shoot the permission on gun club land, I said if i seen you with a pheasant I would take it off you! if you weren't a paying member !!! 99% who shoot our club land with permission is known to us as well as their cars, it's the ones with the D reg cars who travel down to kildare, get out of their cars and let fly get back in their car and go home:mad: I have alot of permission in Meath and Wicklow to shoot over gun clubs lands but I ask them first and will not shoot unless they say it's okay!

I will also stop people on land if there not known to me and in the past I have had farmers thanking me for doing so because they didn't want to face lads with Lurchers wrecking their land. And the same lads told me they had permission, told me the farmers name and even his mobile:eek: and the same farmer said he had no idea who they were?

i know where you are coming from, its not nice to see somebody pull up go in and shoot a bird, but all i am trying to say is ,if you are not the land owner you can not pull someone on another persons land, i know down here you have to get the farmer to do that... i know because i will not explain myself to no club,thats why i left the club, was pulled this year on a permission by a lad in a jeep shouting and roaring, told him 2 fu**off a get the farmer,or i will call the cops on the club. that was the last i heard of that, but went to the local cops just to complain the club again, most people just want to be left alone, but have no time for people driving 40-50 mile and shooting the s**t out of a place myself, as i said let of 60 cocks and shot 6 last year. now i am off fishing for the day, (stocked lake)