.204 v's .22-250

andyone

i was on a similar forum on the net a uk based one.... and this question popped up ..... what would be the best calibur for mr fox... the .204 or the .22-250.... i know the uk laws are different to here.... so from an irish perspective.. i was wondering what peoples thought were...

http://youtu.be/fn4X25ZjJKE


after seeing this video..... i think i made the right choice..:D:D

dwighet

22-250

andyone

dwighet wrote: »

22-250

a man of few words but thanks. .

deerhunter1

dwighet wrote: »

22-250

YEP

landkeeper

dwighet wrote: »

22-250

without a doubt:D as a foxing rifle the lightswitch would put the 204 into the hapenny place

dwighet

andyone wrote: »

a man of few words but thanks. .

ok

andyone

ok ok. . its a bit one sided. . because here a rifle is a rifle. . and all ammo comes of the shelf. . where as in the uk they are allowed to reload and I'm sure that cost's were factored into their decision's. . can they also get a 22-250 on their 22ticket. . . whereas here its a step up from the 22crowd in the eyes of the law. . maybe i should have made the question more related to Irish laws. . . . .22 v's .204 lol

landkeeper

what? you want to compare a 220 swift to a 204 now then that's about as close as you can get :cool:
both easy to licence
still no contest swift wins hands down

andyone

landkeeper wrote: »

what? you want to compare a 220 swift to a 204 now then that's about as close as you can get :cool:
both easy to licence
still no contest swift wins hands down

so is it time i brought the .223 into the discussion. .

landkeeper

yep that'll liven up the debate bunny will be along in a minute with pictures from his 204 testing :cool:and tack will add some conversation too i bet

stick shooter

Should it not be down to what is the pros and cons to each calibre ,
What advantages or disadvantages .
What does each calibre do better than the other .
I would love to hear peoples opinion because they are so closely matched .

virminhunter

22-250, I'd love one, beats the swift on ft/lbs.

stick shooter

virminhunter wrote: »

22-250, I'd love one, beats the swift on ft/lbs.

How does it compare to the .204

virminhunter

stick shooter wrote: »

How does it compare to the .204

I've never owned either caliber, just reading about them, ya know yourself, if you leave money etc out of it it kicks the sh*t out of a .204 all day long, I'm fairly sure I'm right on this one:D way more energy

andyone

virminhunter wrote: »

22-250, I'd love one, beats the swift on ft/lbs.

maybe it would... but wouldn't one have to jump up the rifle owning ladder to get one... :(

and if it beats the swift on ft/lbs how does it compare to the .204 for accuracy???:cool:

landkeeper

actually just having had a look at the hornady ammo info there aint a lot in it on mv bullet drop and ft/lbs
big crow pie for me there then lol

stick shooter

virminhunter wrote: »

I've never owned either caliber, just reading about them, ya know yourself, if you leave money etc out of it it kicks the sh*t out of a .204 all day long, I'm fairly sure I'm right on this one:D way more energy

I just looked up the figures and the 220 swift has more energy, But the 204 seems better in the wind and and less drop and more than enough kinetic energy for mr fox . Also i found interesting they are the fastest commercially loaded round on the market . Beating the 220 swift and the 22-250 on speed .

virminhunter

andyone wrote: »

maybe it would... but wouldn't one have to jump up the rifle owning ladder to get one... :(

and if it beats the swift on ft/lbs how does it compare to the .204 for accuracy???:cool:

you would have to step up the rifle owning ladder to own one, but thats what I was getting at when I said "leaving money etc. out" and just comparing the two rounds from a ballistic point of view, I'm not qualified to tell ya which is more accurate I'm sure someone else will, .204 is a great round and all you'll ever need for fox shooting I wouldnt be worried if a .22-250 is a better round or not.

virminhunter

stick shooter wrote: »

I just looked up the figures and the 220 swift has more energy, But the 204 seems better in the wind and and less drop and more than enough kinetic energy for mr fox . Also i found interesting they are the fastest commercially loaded round on the market . Beating the 220 swift and the 22-250 on speed .

sorry:o I coulda sworn I looked at a 55grain swift and a 55grain .22-250 somewhere and the .22-250 had more energy, I musta got mixed up.

EDIT I just looked up .220swift and .22-250 in 55grain vmax both have the exact same velocity, tragectory and energy(ft/lb) the .22-250 are $5a box cheaper than the swift

stick shooter

virminhunter wrote: »

sorry:o I coulda sworn I looked at a 55grain swift and a 55grain .22-250 somewhere and the .22-250 had more energy, I musta got mixed up.

EDIT I just looked up .220swift and .22-250 in 55grain vmax both have the exact same velocity, tragectory and energy(ft/lb) the .22-250 are $5a box cheaper than the swift

Sorry i meant the 204 for best speed , wind drift and drop .

andyone

FISMA wrote: »

andyone,
What is the most important factor for you or combination thereof: trajectory, performance, accuracy, precision, ammo cost, ammo availability?

At what distances will you be taking your shots? Will you be taking shots over 300ya?

The 223 is a great compromise of all of the above. If you are into shooting or need a bit of practice the 223 will not break the bank.

The 22-250 speaks for itself. However, the costs are considerably more than the 223. If you go the route of the 22-250 over the 223, you should have specific needs that only the 223 can meet.

Slan

i have no intention of buying a 22-250.... if you read the first post... i saw this else where and it got the lads talking.... thought it would be something to get the lads to discuss....

i've recently sold my .223 and am replacing it with a .204.... for better accuracy... and i'd like to extend my reach ....;)

Tackleberrywho

andyone wrote: »

i have no intention of buying a 22-250.... if you read the first post... i saw this else where and it got the lads talking.... thought it would be something to get the lads to discuss....

i've recently sold my .223 and am replacing it with a .204.... for better accuracy... and i'd like to extend my reach ....;)

That's open to debate

I have a super accurate .223 and 75 grain VLD's might be running through it soon.
They don't make .204 VLD's

andyone

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

That's open to debate

I have a super accurate .223 and 75 grain VLD's might be running through it soon.
They don't make .204 VLD's

very good tack. . my own .223 was doing less than an inch and a quarter at two hundred yards with the hornady 75 grs of the shelf. .

tell me what shelf are you getting the berger vld's off of. . .

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

That's open to debate

I have a super accurate .223 and 75 grain VLD's might be running through it soon.
They don't make .204 VLD's

Whats your point tac?Punching paper is not what the .204 or .223 was desinged for .(It just so happens the .204 is super accurate ,anyway !Ive seen some very good .223s in the field and they just dont cut it when compared to a .204 .Now that you have a custom .223 your looking for VLD ammo .As for the .22-250 Vs .204 ruger ,its down to what you want them to do .If you want a good fox and an ok deer rifle then the .22-250 ....Imo .243 would be a better setup for foxes and deer !If it like most of us who are looking for a very good fox ....vermint caliber then .204 ,hands down .The extra little bit for hitting power the .22-250 might bring to the table does not hold sway over the much more relevent qualitys the .204 ruger has ,imo.

andyone

you've hit my needs on the head. . imo I've made the right choice. . i don't think I'll ever be going down the road of shooting deer. . my needs are varmint control. . and as we all know. . the vermin get clever after a while. . and considering i can't buy them vld's of the shelf(so where are you getting them tac). . its .204 time on my lands. . .
and sure everyone and their brother has a .223

tomcat220t

andyone wrote: »

you've hit my needs on the head. . imo I've made the right choice. . i don't think I'll ever be going down the road of shooting deer. . my needs are varmint control. . and as we all know. . the vermin get clever after a while. . and considering i can't buy them vld's of the shelf(so where are you getting them tac). . its .204 time on my lands. . .
and sure everyone and their brother has a .223

The berger VLD 75gr in .223 is a match head !Not going to work well for foxes(wont expand).....and try master your ranges past 200 yards with that stone in the field .

Tackleberrywho

andyone wrote: »

you've hit my needs on the head. . imo I've made the right choice. . i don't think I'll ever be going down the road of shooting deer. . my needs are varmint control. . and as we all know. . the vermin get clever after a while. . and considering i can't buy them vld's of the shelf(so where are you getting them tac). . its .204 time on my lands. . .
and sure everyone and their brother has a .223

The fox I shot last night did not seem to mind the .223

And I never mentioned deer?

I can shoot €14 federal to €26 Hornady and HPS all day long (off the shelf)

The round has noting to do with the fox being clever.
I outsmarted the fox last night but changing Tactics.

I shot him with a P7, now others will say that's not good enough for the Job either but it's shot several foxes for me so I'm happy out

bunny shooter

I'll be back :P

bunny shooter

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3197813

Have a gander at this ........................ for a start

poulo6.5

andyone wrote: »

i have no intention of buying a 22-250.... if you read the first post... i saw this else where and it got the lads talking.... thought it would be something to get the lads to discuss....

i've recently sold my .223 and am replacing it with a .204.... for better accuracy... and i'd like to extend my reach ....;)

Sorry to but in here but if you can't hit it with a .223 then you won't hit it with anything.

Bullet does not make the shooter

virminhunter

bunny shooter wrote: »

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3197813

Have a gander at this ........................ for a start

that was a great read bunny;) both sides of the argument well covered, after reading it though I come away thinking a 1-9twist .22-250 using 75grain bullets was the way to go IF you could get ammo and licence one for vermin control, otherwise .204 all the way:)

andyone

poulo6.5 wrote: »

Sorry to but in here but if you can't hit it with a .223 then you won't hit it with anything.

Bullet does not make the shooter

don't remember saying i couldn't hit stuff with my .223...

poulo6.5

andyone wrote: »

i have no intention of buying a 22-250.... if you read the first post... i saw this else where and it got the lads talking.... thought it would be something to get the lads to discuss....

i've recently sold my .223 and am replacing it with a .204.... for better accuracy... and i'd like to extend my reach ....;)

yes you did

andyone

poulo6.5 wrote: »

yes you did

no poulo i did not.... i said i wanted better accuracy.... and to reach out a little further......
my .223 was doing 1.2" at 200yds with me behind it.... it might not be olympic shooting... but in my opinion the rifle was and is accurate for a .223...
personaly i'd like tighter groups..... and i believe that the right set up in .204 will allow me to acheive this..... and allow good grouping at further distances...

customrifle

Have a very accurate 22/250, serious groups out to 300, my own lack of time hinders testing at further distance. Both 204 and 22/250 will knock a fox handy, both are very flat and have good punch. I would love to try the 204, by all reports it has very little recoil so you can watch your strike and is very accurate with the 39gr federal factory ammo. I can follow the strike with my 250 but it is a heavy rifle and only reason i went with the calibre was i was permitted it for vermin control and I wanted to try the round having used a 223 and 243 before it foxing. It is as destructive as the 243 on them thats for sure

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

The berger VLD 75gr in .223 is a match head !Not going to work well for foxes(wont expand).....and try master your ranges past 200 yards with that stone in the field .

Game set & Hornady 75 Grain Match
tennis Andyone ?:p


@Tom, Yes I do read articles on the Net.

BUT, I also field trial, I never take only one persons version of reality (if I did then some nameless posters on here would be shootin Win mag on foxes as it is teh Ultimate round :rolleyes:).
I was out in a Gale 2 weeks ago and 75grain .223 had 4" of drift @300 yards. And I mean a Gale, tree tops blowing feet left to right.(Dev was my Rangefinder/spotter)

In saying that, I have found that my custom barrel .223 chews almost all ammo well, from Federal to Hornady of all grains shapes and sizes.

(does not take wolf anymore but who cares)
I can shoot for €14 a box if funds are tight or €26 if they are Flush.

stick shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Game set & Hornady 75 Grain Match
tennis Andyone ?:p


@Tom, Yes I do read articles on the Net.

BUT, I also field trial, I never take only one persons version of reality (if I did then some nameless posters on here would be shootin Win mag on foxes as it is teh Ultimate round :rolleyes:).
I was out in a Gale 2 weeks ago and 75grain .223 had 4" of drift @300 yards. And I mean a Gale, tree tops blowing feet left to right.(Dev was my Rangefinder/spotter)

In saying that, I have found that my custom barrel .223 chews almost all ammo well, from Federal to Hornady of all grains shapes and sizes.

(does not take wolf anymore but who cares)
I can shoot for €14 a box if funds are tight or €26 if they are Flush.

From reading andyone posts it sounds like he is looking for a flat shooting varmint calibre which clearly the .223 is not .
It is quiet irresponsible and stupid to state that its better to use a match bullet over an expanding win mag round :rolleyes:.
It would be a lot better to keep the match rounds for what hornady designed them for (paper punching) a not as you call it field trial on live animals .
Its a lot easier to be aware of back stops rather than where a ricochet is going to end up .

bunny shooter

IMVHO keeping to the OP's question ............................

I'd pick 204 over 22/250 UNLESS I needed the same rifle for vermin & deer.

I'd have 204 over swift because 204 is better to buck the wind, less recoil, less copper in barrel so less cleaning required, cheaper ammo of same quality and quieter.

I'd have 204 over 223 because 223 is not even close in so many ways :P

I have owned 223, 220 Swift & currently 204 so I have used them all, more than some here can claim!

I have done some 204 testing this weekend and am compiling results which I'll put in another thread later

Also I'd like to add that I think anyone using designated target ammo for hunting any live quarry need a swift kick in the gonads........ IMVHO !

andyone

how much have you spent on your factory remmie. . . to make it a super accurate custom rifle. . i find it hard to believe that 4 inch drift at 300yds is your only example of how well you or your gun shoots. what was the height difference in your group. . the 75 grainer's will buck the wind to a point. . . . the group i mentioned earlier in this post was done with a factory cz rifle that essentialy had only been re crowned. .
sometimes i think people can get carried away throwing money at their rifles. . . to have the best of the best. . when at the end of the day. . they are still only killing mr rabbit or mr fox . . all be it at longer distances. . that a guy with good hunting skills could do with a .22lr. .

in your honest opinion. . do you think that your rifle out of the box new in .223 would outshoot a .204 out of the box also. .

because that's what I'm after. . a .204 that i know will shot well out of the box. . as lovely as it would be to own a custom Jobbie. . . finances and reality don't allow such extravagance. .

as i said before i want a rifle for vermin control. . . because I'm not one of these great stalker's. . and i believe and after reading other posts believe even more so that the .204 is the man for the job

bunny shooter

andyone wrote: »

..........4 inch drift at 300yds is your only example of how well you or your gun shoots.............

In the conditions he described 4" drift at 300 yards with a 223 .............why are lads using 8mm's for F Open? :P

I fired a 220 Swift at 300 yards in a fair wind (no meter but it was blowing!)with 50 grain ammo and was getting 12" of drift while my mate was firing a 204 with 40 grain ammo and was getting 8" of drift.

andyone wrote: »

.........because that's what I'm after. . a .204 that i know will shot well out of the box...........

Ruger VT

Tackleberrywho

stick shooter wrote: »

From reading andyone posts it sounds like he is looking for a flat shooting varmint calibre which clearly the .223 is not .
It is quiet irresponsible and stupid to state that its better to use a match bullet over an expanding win mag round :rolleyes:.
It would be a lot better to keep the match rounds for what hornady designed them for (paper punching) a not as you call it field trial on live animals .
Its a lot easier to be aware of back stops rather than where a ricochet is going to end up .

Have you seen the traj of a 53 grain Hornady SuperFormance?

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
4000/1243 3354/874 2795/607 2299/411 1858/268 1479/170
Trajectory (inches)
MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 0.80 0.00 -5.30 -17.30 -39.60

There are flat shooting .223 rounds out here.

And A hollowpoint is Hollow not FMJ so it does not Riccochet :rolleyes:
Without getting too graffic BELIEVE me if you like, but the 75 grain almost cut that fox in half.
I had to carefully place him so Bernie wrong would not be e-mailing me:eek::eek:

It is quite irresponsible and stupid to not first test all ammo to see if it groups well.
If it happens that a full plastic water bottle is behind the zero'ing Target then .........

The BTHP needs 2" of flesh to expand, perfect for foxes; BUT I did not Take Bergers word for it; what would they know

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Game set & Hornady 75 Grain Match
tennis Andyone ?:p


@Tom, Yes I do read articles on the Net.

BUT, I also field trial, I never take only one persons version of reality (if I did then some nameless posters on here would be shootin Win mag on foxes as it is teh Ultimate round :rolleyes:).
I was out in a Gale 2 weeks ago and 75grain .223 had 4" of drift @300 yards. And I mean a Gale, tree tops blowing feet left to right.(Dev was my Rangefinder/spotter)

In saying that, I have found that my custom barrel .223 chews almost all ammo well, from Federal to Hornady of all grains shapes and sizes.

(does not take wolf anymore but who cares)
I can shoot for €14 a box if funds are tight or €26 if they are Flush.

Fine shooting tac and i agree that the 75gr .223 is good in the wind but i did not find them any better at bucking the wind over the 39gr .204 :eek:.Fair play for getting a custom build and im sure you will have many years of happy shooting ..204 Vs .223 Vs .22-250.........they all do the job and its a long field that exceeds 300 yards .The .204 is fairly simple at theses ranges .....point and pull on mr fox . Ive see the 75gr .223 used on foxes and rabbits , despite the fact they are a match round and probably no ideal for that job ,they seemed to worked well!The weekest link of any of theses calibres is ourselfs ,the shooters .

poulo6.5

andyone wrote: »

how much have you spent on your factory remmie. . . to make it a super accurate custom rifle. . i find it hard to believe that 4 inch drift at 300yds is your only example of how well you or your gun shoots. what was the height difference in your group. . the 75 grainer's will buck the wind to a point. . . . the group i mentioned earlier in this post was done with a factory cz rifle that essentialy had only been re crowned. .
sometimes i think people can get carried away throwing money at their rifles. . . to have the best of the best. . when at the end of the day. . they are still only killing mr rabbit or mr fox . . all be it at longer distances. . that a guy with good hunting skills could do with a .22lr. .

in your honest opinion. . do you think that your rifle out of the box new in .223 would outshoot a .204 out of the box also. .

because that's what I'm after. . a .204 that i know will shot well out of the box. . as lovely as it would be to own a custom Jobbie. . . finances and reality don't allow such extravagance. .

as i said before i want a rifle for vermin control. . . because I'm not one of these great stalker's. . and i believe and after reading other posts believe even more so that the .204 is the man for the job

We had this discussion before as to weather .204 is better than .223.
My opinion is that .204 is a fine round and does exactly what it's supposed to. BUT. If you can't hit a fox with a .223 at long range then all the money and rifle calls in the world won't help you.
.204 can't do anything that a .223 can't do.

Once you go out past 300 no mater what you shoot you still have to either holdover or adjust turrets

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

Fine shooting tac and i agree that the 75gr .223 is good in the wind but i did not find them any better at bucking the wind over the 39gr .204 :eek:.Fair play for getting a custom build and im sure you will have many years of happy shooting ..204 Vs .223 Vs .22-250.........they all do the job and its a long field that exceeds 300 yards .The .204 is fairly simple at theses ranges .....point and pull on mr fox . Ive see the 75gr .223 used on foxes and rabbits , despite the fact they are a match round and probably no ideal for that job ,they seemed to worked well!The weekest link of any of theses calibres is ourselfs ,the shooters .

Oh yes, I have missed some handy ones all right

where rifle ammo or scope could not be blamed.

I'm not diss'ing .204, but I have to stand up for .223 as there is a reason it's so popular and has so many grades of Factory ammo available.

Dev110 shoots 50grain Hollow point at foxes, the 75 grain Hollowpoints heads are no different.
Except for a Boat Tail:D

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

........there is a reason it's so popular and has so many grades of Factory ammo available..........

May be length of time the 223 is around compared to 204.

When the 204 is around as long as the 223 we'll see what's most popular

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

May be length of time the 223 is around compared to 204.

When the 204 is around as long as the 223 we'll see what's most popular

Well you are doing the cause no favour putting it in a glass case and throwing sugar at it

Will ya ever shoot that yoke of yours!!
I could not have a new rifle months and not use it

All the talk of .204's and not a fox or bunny in sight, Did I hear the gauntlet being thrown down!

bunny shooter

Tac read my post in this thread .................... #38

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

IMVHO keeping to the OP's question ............................

I'd pick 204 over 22/250 UNLESS I needed the same rifle for vermin & deer.

I'd have 204 over swift because 204 is better to buck the wind, less recoil, less copper in barrel so less cleaning required, cheaper ammo of same quality and quieter.

I'd have 204 over 223 because 223 is not even close in so many ways :P

I have owned 223, 220 Swift & currently 204 so I have used them all, more than some here can claim!

I have done some 204 testing this weekend and am compiling results which I'll put in another thread later

Also I'd like to add that I think anyone using designated target ammo for hunting any live quarry need a swift kick in the gonads........ IMVHO !

Don't show IWM this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voyw1H-0CBI

Can't wait to EVENTUALLY see this .204 in action

bunny shooter

It was in action in MNSCI on Saturday

andyone

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Don't show IWM this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voyw1H-0CBI

Can't wait to EVENTUALLY see this .204 in action

I've seen this video a few times now and they really do seem to have found the daddy when it comes to longrange knocking power. . but sadly reloading was illegal last time i looked. . they would be a super round in larger Caliburs. . if they could be got. .

Tackleberrywho

andyone wrote: »

I've seen this video a few times now and they really do seem to have found the daddy when it comes to longrange knocking power. . but sadly reloading was illegal last time i looked. . they would be a super round in larger Caliburs. . if they could be got. .

HPS my boy, HPS.........

You'll have to broaden your horizons

I'm getting a batch of them in .223 75 grain
Where there's a will........

That's why I love my Truflite, have shot 50-75 grains with no issues just exceptional accuracy! 1/4" at 100 yards in all grains! Consistently