Leaving My Religion

GarIT

I'm asking this here because I don't think I'll get any proper response on the Christianity forum. I'm currently a Roman Catholic, I've been baptised, make communion and been confirmed in the same church. I was a child and this wasn't my choice, is there any way I can now get them to remove all records of me, Baptism cert etc. I know I can just ignore them or whatever but after all the harm they have done and as a personal choice I want to be fully separate from them. Hopefully someone here has done this before and knows how to do it. Thanks for the help!

mle1324

GarIT wrote: »

I'm asking this here because I don't think I'll get any proper response on the Christianity forum. I'm currently a Roman Catholic, I've been baptised, make communion and been confirmed in the same church. I was a child and this wasn't my choice, is there any way I can now get them to remove all records of me, Baptism cert etc. I know I can just ignore them or whatever but after all the harm they have done and as a personal choice I want to be fully separate from them. Hopefully someone here has done this before and knows how to do it. Thanks for the help!

Good post here on another forum which I found last night.

http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1968

Strongly thinking about doing the same myself.

paddyman

Hey,

There was until recently, but i think the church has changed their canon laws which were used by people for defection. I did it prior to this and got the baptismal register amended and have it in writing.

You can speak to, write and email the Archdiocese of Dublin and tell them of your wish to leave. Ask them what options are available.

Don't worry about them been impolite or that your somehow offending them, its your decision. I can assure you they have dealt with this 100's of times and were very decent and professional about the whole thing when i went through it.

Let us know how you get on and if their is still options available for official defection.

CiaranMT

Hi OP,

Up until earlier this year you could have written a letter to your bishop to mark you off their list. A site called Countmeout.ie helped people like yourself who wanted info on how to do this, but since April (I think?) of last year, the RCC have suspended defections, so you can't officially leave for the time being.

It's a tad annoying, and personally I'd like to have the knowledge that they have me officially down as defected, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to church, paying parish dues, or any of that nonsense. A cert doesn't really mean feck-all to them if they don't have numbers attending or money coming in.

mle1324

Anybody know what the situation is for when someone is still attending a catholic school (i.e does religion as a subject) but leaves Catholicism ?

CiaranMT

mle1324 wrote: »

Anybody know what the situation is for when someone is still attending a catholic school (i.e does religion as a subject) but leaves Catholicism ?

What do you mean?

Irish Fire

I issued notice to defect as of yesterday got an e mail back saying it will be dealt with (visions of a sniper taking me out in the next day or so) it remains to be seen how it will be dealt with

GarIT

The problem is I don't wan't to defect. You still can but they add your name to a list instead of removing your info. What I want is to have them remove all my data, I don't want a group of people that support and protect paedophiles even having my name on record. It doesn't bother me weather or not they count me as Catholic or not, I just don't feel safe with them having my name address, parents names and addresses, its too much info for people like them to have.

mle1324

CiaranMT wrote: »

What do you mean?

Do they have to take part in anything the involves religion ?

Dades

You should take a look at this thread.

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

However, like an absurd concept that can't be disproven, any organisation that won't allow you to "officially" leave despite you distancing yourself from everything to do with them is worthy of nothing but dismissal and derision.

As long as you put down something other than Roman Catholic in the recent census, and you are clear in your mind, then you are no longer one of them.

Dades

mle1324 wrote: »

Do they have to take part in anything the involves religion ?

AFAIK, no - as long as you have parental permission.

blubloblu

You could try a request under the data protection act to have them remove you from their records.

mle1324

Dades wrote: »

AFAIK, no - as long as you have parental permission.

Thank you. I ask as my religion teacher know I'm an atheist but yet loves to put me on the spot when it comes to questions.

Dades

mle1324 wrote: »

Thank you. I ask as my religion teacher know I'm an atheist but yet loves to put me on the spot when it comes to questions.

The one thing about being an atheist is that you never have to be afraid of questions.

It's okay to not have the answers to certain things rather than make them up, and ultimately the burden of proof is on the religious to explain their own answers and all their inconsistencies.

GarIT

blubloblu wrote: »

You could try a request under the data protection act to have them remove you from their records.

Is there actually a law or something that says they have to do that?

GarIT

mle1324 wrote: »

Thank you. I ask as my religion teacher know I'm an atheist but yet loves to put me on the spot when it comes to questions.

I was in the same situation the religion teachers were absolute c**ts. Just answer with factual information or what you believe. For example if you're asked what is the bible say "It's the best selling fiction novel ever written" or if your asked who is jesus say "He is the main character in the novel "the bible" by no known author"

Dades

GarIT wrote: »

Is there actually a law or something that says they have to do that?

While you may have access to the information - changing it is somewhat difficult if you are dealing with an organisation whose rules are based on the supernatural.

e.g. Once you are baptised, your soul is catholic or some such.

For this same reason I don't see the point in getting bothered about it. If the organisation involved are going to act on this level you are best to just ignore them.

CiaranMT

mle1324 wrote: »

Thank you. I ask as my religion teacher know I'm an atheist but yet loves to put me on the spot when it comes to questions.

I'd be interested to hear what kind of questions you get asked.

mikemac

CiaranMT wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear what kind of questions you get asked.

Recite prayers in English and as Gaelige.
Or come to the blackboard and write them. Ever go to a GAA game and the fans know some of the words but no way could they write the anthem?
In school, at least in my day, you'd learn to write with every fada Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be in English and Irish. And learn even more at Confirmation time, word perfect.
I couldn't write them now but I can recite as Gaelige anyway

And learn questions and answers. Give a textbook answer to every question, catechism is the term but kids in school mightn't know that. Like questions at the end of chapters, tests your knowledge.

GarIT wrote: »

I'm asking this here because I don't think I'll get any proper response on the Christianity forum.

You would have gotten a proper response, the thread would be much the same as here. If you want to leave you won't get twenty posts demanding to know your reasons or try to change your mind if that's what you are assuming
You'd struggle to post any question on boards that hasn't been asked before, same in any forum on boards realy.

mle1324

Dades wrote: »

The one thing about being an atheist is that you never have to be afraid of questions.

It's okay to not have the answers to certain things rather than make them up, and ultimately the burden of proof is on the religious to explain their own answers and all their inconsistencies.

I should have put that into a better context. What I mean is, someone reads a passage from a worksheet ect or we watch a documentary that has something to do with Jesus and me the atheist is the one to be asked questions to make sure I'm taking everything in and learning. I can see myself snapping one day which is why i want to find out whats the best way going about things like this.

EDIT: What;s even worse is that I wasn't allowed to leave the class for extra maths resources for my LC!

strobe

GarIT wrote: »

I'm asking this here because I don't think I'll get any proper response on the Christianity forum. I'm currently a Roman Catholic, I've been baptised, make communion and been confirmed in the same church. I was a child and this wasn't my choice, is there any way I can now get them to remove all records of me, Baptism cert etc. I know I can just ignore them or whatever but after all the harm they have done and as a personal choice I want to be fully separate from them. Hopefully someone here has done this before and knows how to do it. Thanks for the help!

Think of it like if a random neo-nazi organisation started running around saying you were one of them. What would you do? Acknowledge what they were saying and look for an official way to prove them wrong? Or ignore the weirdos?


Ignore the weirdos, my friend. Always ignore the weirdos. They thrive on attention. It gives them legitimacy.

Ignore the weirdos.

Dades

mle1324 wrote: »

I should have put that into a better context. What I mean is, someone reads a passage from a worksheet ect or we watch a documentary that has something to do with Jesus and me the atheist is the one to be asked questions. I can see myself snapping one day which is why i want to find out whats the best way going about things like this.

Tricky one.

Questions asked under the assumption that Jesus was who is says he was, or that the bible passage in question is real are taken for granted? You might as well be discussing Moby Dick. What are Ahab's motives? :pac:

I think you just need to be out of there. Conscientious objectors need more grip than that.

bmarley

Just of a matter of interest what did you put in on the census form - this is what you are - an adult of free speech.

CiaranMT

feelingstressed wrote: »

Recite prayers in English and as Gaelige.
Or come to the blackboard and write them. Ever go to a GAA game and the fans know some of the words but no way could they write the anthem?
In school, at least in my day, you'd learn to write with every fada Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory Be in English and Irish. And learn even more at Confirmation time, word perfect.
I couldn't write them now but I can recite as Gaelige anyway

And learn questions and answers. Give a textbook answer to every question, catechism is the term but kids in school mightn't know that. Like questions at the end of chapters, tests your knowledge.

Well I meant what questions the poster got asked when put on the spot :P

mle1324

Dades wrote: »

Tricky one.

Questions asked under the assumption that Jesus was who is says he was, or that the bible passage in question is real are taken for granted? You might as well be discussing Moby Dick. What are Ahab's motives? :pac:

I think you just need to be out of there. Conscientious objectors need more grip than that.

Well like your said earlier on I'll give the parental permission thing a go (my parents respect my views so that wouldn't be a problem). But if that fails I suppose my only option is to refuse altogether in taking part.

Thanks for the advice Dades

mle1324

CiaranMT wrote: »

Well I meant what questions the poster got asked when put on the spot :P

Does anybody here not believe in God ? ( few hands go up) All of us with our hands up are asked why? Comes to me ''Why dont you believe in God Aaron ? ''

''Because I don't believe that he exists, I think religion is a waste of time, there's no proof of an after live and I find it so embarrassing on the churches behalf that they contradict themselves in many ways and there attitude in general.''

For about 5 minutes she was trying to pesuade us that there was a God and that we should believe and have faith. (point where my blood starts to boil).

That was last year but I'm almost sure that's how the conversation went.

strobe

Xause it kind of had to be posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ2yXWi0ppw

CiaranMT

mle1324 wrote: »

Does anybody here not believe in God ? ( few hands go up) All of us with are hand up our asked why? Comes to me ''Why dont you believe in God Aaron ? ''

''Because I don't believe that he exists, I think religion is a waste of time, there's no proof of an after live and I find it so embarrassing on the churches behalf that they contradict themselves in many ways and there attitude in general.''

For about 5 minutes she was trying to pesuade us that there was a God and that we should believe and have faith. (point where my blood starts to boil).

That was last year but I'm almost sure that how the conversation went.

And was that the only instance? Sad to see a teacher not being able to keep their own beliefs out of a class that gives information on most large-scale religions.

mle1324

CiaranMT wrote: »

And was that the only instance? Sad to see a teacher not being able to keep their own beliefs out of a class that gives information on most large-scale religions.

Nope a short while after I was asked would I go to a wedding or funeral. I said yes, I'd go to a wedding only because I would be making the effort for friends/family and I wouldn't want to miss seeing them happy. And I'd go to a funeral for the sake of being there (dunno if I could of phrased that better ) for someone close was has died.

It was left at that then.

bmarley

How many years since Van the man sang "There's no religion here today", still live and kicking in our schools though and time to be brought outside curricular time - unless it the good/bad of all religions.

Stercus Accidit

mle1324 wrote: »

Does anybody here not believe in God ? ( few hands go up) All of us with our hands up are asked why? Comes to me ''Why dont you believe in God Aaron ? ''

''Because I don't believe that he exists, I think religion is a waste of time, there's no proof of an after live and I find it so embarrassing on the churches behalf that they contradict themselves in many ways and there attitude in general.''

For about 5 minutes she was trying to pesuade us that there was a God and that we should believe and have faith. (point where my blood starts to boil).

That was last year but I'm almost sure that's how the conversation went.

Why don't you believe in god?

Which god?

The god of the bible?

The same reason you don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or Thor.


Repeat ad naseum

Irish Fire

Is there a god??

I truly believe not, although I don't force the issue with anyone, because each to their own.

mle1324

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Why don't you believe in god?

Which god?

The god of the bible?

The same reason you don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or Thor.


Repeat ad naseum

pfft :rolleyes:

Dades

Irish Fire wrote: »

I truly believe not, although I don't force the issue with anyone...

Unlike mle1324's RE teacher?

CiaranMT

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Why don't you believe in god?

Which god?

The god of the bible?

The same reason you don't believe in Apollo, Zeus or Thor.


Repeat ad naseum

+1

Stercus Accidit

mle1324 wrote: »

pfft :rolleyes:

You're welcome...

Galvasean

Irish Fire wrote: »

Is there a god??

I truly believe not, although I don't force the issue with anyone, because each to their own.

I'm sorry, but did you read the thread at all?

Morag

blubloblu wrote: »

You could try a request under the data protection act to have them remove you from their records.

Church records are exempt under the data protection laws, all they can do is offer to 'amend' them to say you have opted out but they will not remove your name from the baptismal register.

Zillah

Yeah, data protection act allows you the right to ensure that information that private institutions hold about you is accurate. Would be an interesting test case to take them to court for having you listed as a member of their religion despite your avowed position to the contrary.

Irish Fire

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm sorry, but did you read the thread at all?

Did you? If you did you would not have asked that question

Daftendirekt

mle1324 wrote: »

Does anybody here not believe in God ? ( few hands go up) All of us with our hands up are asked why? Comes to me ''Why dont you believe in God Aaron ? ''

''Because I don't believe that he exists, I think religion is a waste of time, there's no proof of an after live and I find it so embarrassing on the churches behalf that they contradict themselves in many ways and there attitude in general.''

For about 5 minutes she was trying to pesuade us that there was a God and that we should believe and have faith. (point where my blood starts to boil).

That was last year but I'm almost sure that's how the conversation went.

If you're ever put on the spot with that particular question again, you should simply say "I don't believe in God for the same reason you don't believe in Odin." (May not work if you're talking to a Viking.)

The main reason for non-belief is that no one has managed to make a convincing case for a deity's existence. Although it may not feel like it when you're being singled out in religion class, your position (atheism) is the logical default, and it's up to your teacher to demonstrate otherwise.

If you can keep that in mind when you get drawn into these debates, it becomes slightly less frustrating. Just try to not let it get to you!

blubloblu

Sharrow wrote: »

Church records are exempt under the data protection laws, all they can do is offer to 'amend' them to say you have opted out but they will not remove your name from the baptismal register.

Why do they seem to be above the law?

flyboy69

How about breaking some of their rules so that they have no choice but to kick you out i.e. excommunication. Lets see.....sex before marriage or even sex during marriage using birth control. I'm sure there are a few more really 'bad' stuff that you guys and gals can think off.:D

AhSureTisGrand

flyboy69 wrote: »

How about breaking some of their rules so that they have no choice but to kick you out i.e. excommunication. Lets see.....sex before marriage or even sex during marriage using birth control. I'm sure there are a few more really 'bad' stuff that you guys and gals can think off.:D

But then they'd have to kick everyone else out too

GarIT

flyboy69 wrote: »

How about breaking some of their rules so that they have no choice but to kick you out i.e. excommunication. Lets see.....sex before marriage or even sex during marriage using birth control. I'm sure there are a few more really 'bad' stuff that you guys and gals can think off.:D

I was thinking of going Martin Luther style and nail a load of things to the church door. Or Going into the church saying that under the Data Protection Act I have the right to see the original documents and as soon as I get them run away with them. Or say they forged my membership and that I never joined and threaten to sue if they don't remove the records. Or go AH style and Blast em with p*ss.

But I decided just to ignore them, sure the church will be dead in bout 10 years, most priests are at least 65 and something like 2 new priests joined in Ireland last year, they're just going to die off soon

Useless piece of info but I read recently that there are less than 5,000 practising Catholics in Ireland, as far as I know they were only referring to someone as practising if they followed every idea and rule.

georgieporgy

blubloblu wrote: »

You could try a request under the data protection act to have them remove you from their records.

The baptism register is just that, - a register.

Similar to a register of births. It's a record of something that happened. It would not be right to falsify records. When you die, your name is not removed from the register of births. It is merely added to a new register.

Other than maintaining accurate registers of historical events, I don't think the church keeps personal details of anybody like your credit card or phone number.So don't worry. Leave in peace

GarIT

The this is I didn't join the Catholic Church willingly, I was probably less than a month old. And if anybody like my kids or something are looking up old records don't want the shame of being a Catholic associated with my name.

Galvasean

Irish Fire wrote: »

Did you? If you did you would not have asked that question

The fact that you made a very general comment that had virtually nothing to do with the topic at hand is what led me to question you.

karl tyrrell

Back to who created god did he have a dad see what the teacher says ?

Kepti

GarIT wrote: »

The this is I didn't join the Catholic Church willingly, I was probably less than a month old. And if anybody like my kids or something are looking up old records don't want the shame of being a Catholic associated with my name.

I'm trying to think of a better way of communicating to your children that you're not actually Catholic, but I'm struggling. Post your name here so they'll unearth your protests when they google you.

GarIT

Kepti wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a better way of communicating to your children that you're not actually Catholic, but I'm struggling. Post your name here so they'll unearth your protests when they google you.

I suppose I'll just have to educate them on Catholics and what they support and make sure my children are never left near them.

I've heard from an unreliable source (more like drunken pub talk) that because the church obtained my information from my parents while I was a minor it would be illegal for them to retain it once I turned 18 if it was without my permission. Is there any truth behind this or is it a load of s**t?