Credit Union will send me to Jail- Sean Quinn never will..

eddison

Ok, I don't want to send Sean Quinn to jail- its not about that. He gambled with peoples futures, as 2600 people worked for the whole group, completely irresponsible, and plain greed behind it. It is us who will pay, and pay for his gambling on the stock market. Congratulations- you now owe 4,000,000,000 !

But if I owed the credit union 5 grand they would get a judge to send me to jail. And will Sean Quinn go to jail?
Is there one law for us, and one law for him ???

pigeonbutler

As far as I'm aware the legal position was changed in 2010 in relation to the jailing of people for non-payment of debts. Now one cannot be jailed for inability to pay. You can still be jailed if the judge is of the opinion that you can pay but simply won't.

Same rule for Séan as for you!

cosanostra

In fairness to sean quinn he would never have built an empire the size he did if he hadn't gambled but the last big gamble brought him down and i think the fact hes lost his entire life in the quinn group is punishment enough and remember that 4bil never really left anglo it was really just a paper transaction to try and keep anglo afloat i think the people who should be jailed are our politicians at the time and the bankers who issued these crazy loans and commited serious crimes of fraud

eddison

As far as I'm aware the legal position was changed in 2010 in relation to the jailing of people for non-payment of debts. Now one cannot be jailed for inability to pay. You can still be jailed if the judge is of the opinion that you can pay but simply won't.

Ok fair enough- still angry over the last bunch of crooked cronies in Governtment. Anyone else feel like a yoke has been lifted off our shoulders?

In fairness to sean quinn he would never have built an empire the size he did if he hadn't gambled

There are different kinds of gambling- one is gambling that seeds planted in the ground will grow next year, the other is betting.
Sean Quinn was betting. He caused people to rely on him, and he caused a situation where people put their faith in him, that they would have a good future. And how did he reward all of what Irish society has given to him?
He betted with 2,600 peoples futures. Sorry I do not feel sorry for self imposed greed. if he made honest money, he would not be in the position he is today- he has no sense of honest living but prefers more and more.
Such a simple lesson repeated through history- being content with what you have.

cosanostra

eddison wrote: »

Ok fair enough- still angry over the last bunch of crooked cronies in Governtment. Anyone else feel like a yoke has been lifted off our shoulders?


There are different kinds of gambling- one is gambling that seeds planted in the ground will grow next year, the other is betting.
Sean Quinn was betting. He caused people to rely on him, and he caused a situation where people put their faith in him, that they would have a good future. And how did he reward all of what Irish society has given to him?
He betted with 2,600 peoples futures. Sorry I do not feel sorry for self imposed greed. if he made honest money, he would not be in the position he is today- he has no sense of honest living but prefers more and more.
Such a simple lesson repeated through history- being content with what you have.

So do you think sean quinn should have stopped expanding after he bought his first truck a lot of his bets paid off well eg bupa im sure the people whos jobs he saved there and the jobs he created are glad he placed that bet

eddison

So do you think sean quinn should have stopped expanding after he bought his first truck a lot of his bets paid off well eg bupa im sure the people whos jobs he saved there and the jobs he created are glad he placed that bet

here we go again the loony brigade..

Didn't you read my post? do you know what contracts for difference are????
Contracts for difference have the same odds as going to the bookies.
Investment is totally different.
Sean Quinn (early years)=wise= investment= lots of money
Sean Quinn (Later years)=greed= going to the bookies=flat broke in debt

JonathanAnon

Sean Quinn is one of the good guys.. He built up indigenous businesses from scratch, gave employment to thousands, reduced the price of car insurance for us all..... He made a HUGE mistake by investing in CFDs for Anglo, I can only think that he must have been told the similar lies by Fitzpatrick and Drumm that the state were told on September 29th 2008.... He has now handed over the businesses that he spent his life building, and he always intended to pay back his debts... He stayed here, and didnt fly away like many of the other people who have helped bring the state to economic ruin.

As opposed to that Quinlan lad.. He just borrowed to buy trophy properties to look like the big man.. didnt create any jobs.. then when it all went wrong he fu*ked off to Switzerland and left the rest of us with his mess..

Sir Oxman

Well that's nice and all but each job in that company is costing the exchequer half a million.

What happens to Quinn now? Does he pay for his recklessness or retire on big bucks?

m.j.w

gambiaman wrote: »

Well that's nice and all but each job in that company is costing the exchequer half a million.

What happens to Quinn now? Does he pay for his recklessness or retire on big bucks?

I was gonna post this to, what happens to him now? How can these people owe massive amounts of money and still live the life.

Sir Oxman

m.j.w wrote: »

I was gonna post this to, what happens to him now? How can these people owe massive amounts of money and still live the life.

You won't find him or his family living on €188 per week, that's for sure.

eddison

gambiaman wrote: »

You won't find him or his family living on €188 per week, that's for sure.

Well said.

Yeah Quinn built allot, and all credit to him for that. but he went into CFDs with eyes open. He is no fool in business. So why did it happen? Going for too much, wanting too much.
How much is enough? 5 billion was not enough?

Ok fantastic success- fair play.
Risk thousands of peoples futures in gambling billions- the most basic obvious mistake repeated again, and again, and again throughout history.

Don't be f***ing greedy.

mufcboy1999

if you haven't got a grantor forget the loan mate and if your looking at jail leave the country there's fuc* all here anyway, ud make a better life somewhere else.

top up the loan before you leave too:D

danbohan

eddison wrote: »

Ok fair enough- still angry over the last bunch of crooked cronies in Governtment. Anyone else feel like a yoke has been lifted off our shoulders?


There are different kinds of gambling- one is gambling that seeds planted in the ground will grow next year, the other is betting.
Sean Quinn was betting. He caused people to rely on him, and he caused a situation where people put their faith in him, that they would have a good future. And how did he reward all of what Irish society has given to him?
He betted with 2,600 peoples futures. Sorry I do not feel sorry for self imposed greed. if he made honest money, he would not be in the position he is today- he has no sense of honest living but prefers more and more.
Such a simple lesson repeated through history- being content with what you have.

the reason 2600 people in and around the border region had /have a future was because of sean quinn , he created it ,and he messed it up, and thats how it sometimes goes . in usa people like quinn are lauded and appreciated ,some fall off like he has but get opportunity to rebuild and are better for it, but in ireland we have this , narrow minded begrudgery from people who never in one million lifetimes would create a single job

if people like quinn etc was content with what they have then nobody would ever try to expand or build their business ,you and i thousands more would be added to the 450k unemployed

wee truck big driver

i would have no sympathy for sean quinn he had more money than he could ever spend and still wanted more.but at the end of the day you dont succeed in buisness by being nice or fair so this country needs people like sean quinn and thats the simple fact sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt

wee truck big driver

eddison wrote: »

Ok fair enough- still angry over the last bunch of crooked cronies in Governtment. Anyone else feel like a yoke has been lifted off our shoulders?


.

are you having a laugh we got rid of one set of muppets and got an even bigger shower of muppets this country can put its head between its legs and kiss its ass goodbye

meglome

wee truck big driver wrote: »

are you having a laugh we got rid of one set of muppets and got an even bigger shower of muppets this country can put its head between its legs and kiss its ass goodbye

This shíte is really tired at this point. The first set of muppets bankrupted the country, what exactly did the current lot do that's worse than that?

charlemont

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Sean Quinn is one of the good guys.. He built up indigenous businesses from scratch, gave employment to thousands, reduced the price of car insurance for us all..... He made a HUGE mistake by investing in CFDs for Anglo, I can only think that he must have been told the similar lies by Fitzpatrick and Drumm that the state were told on September 29th 2008.... He has now handed over the businesses that he spent his life building, and he always intended to pay back his debts... He stayed here, and didnt fly away like many of the other people who have helped bring the state to economic ruin.

As opposed to that Quinlan lad.. He just borrowed to buy trophy properties to look like the big man.. didnt create any jobs.. then when it all went wrong he fu*ked off to Switzerland and left the rest of us with his mess..

Something very dodgy about all of this, I wonder was Sean Quinn tricked into investing on purpose, Lots of insurance companies in Ireland must of being angry about competition from Quinn so it wouldnt surprise me if it was all part of a scam..

later12

eddison wrote: »

Sean Quinn (early years)=wise= investment= lots of money
Sean Quinn (Later years)=greed= going to the bookies=flat broke in debt

It seems that greed is only bad when it uses derivative instruments. Everything he did that worked was right and wonderful, his failures were guilty and abhorrent. How wonderfully Shakespearian and convenient this all is.

later12

charlemont wrote: »

Something very dodgy about all of this, I wonder was Sean Quinn tricked into investing on purpose, Lots of insurance companies in Ireland must of being angry about competition from Quinn so it wouldnt surprise me if it was all part of a scam..

No I think Quinn was just amazed by the level of return he could achieve with the CfDs. They can be hugely lucrative instruments. Anglo had nothing to gain from his exposure at the level to which he was exposed and I don't think anybody would reasonably contend that they were anything but shocked when they found out. It was a disaster for them to have Quinn be gambling with what could be - effectively - their money via CfDs.

end a eknny

meglome wrote: »

This shíte is really tired at this point. The first set of muppets bankrupted the country, what exactly did the current lot do that's worse than that?

lets see they where on the sidelines promising more spending less taxes and would have created the same problem. they also ripped the dick of the goverment from the opposition at every oppourtunity and made ireland look like an easy target for the markets to take advantage did they do this to help ireland or themselves and miraculiously when they get into power they continue where the last goverment left off save a few platitudes like ministerial cars and miniscule paycuts to quell the morons they like to call the voting public. as for the country being bankrupted we still have the highest minimum wage and probably highest average wages and welfare payments in europe WHY because we are worth it

nuac

Pigeonbutler has set out the correct position about anyone owing a debt to a credit union ( or anyone else ).

The creditor has to establish to the satisfaction of the court that the debtor is able to meet the debt and obtain an order for payment, usually be insntalments. The debto may file a statement of means and come to court to make his/her case re ability to pay.

As most will know credit unions are usally locally based - apart from those working in particular organisations - and go to considerable trouble contacting borrowers who are in debt trying to work out some arrangement before reluctantly taking legal action.

In fairness to the credit union movement, which has been a very positive force in Ireland since the first CU was started here c. 1958, the title of this thread should be changed.

eddison

later10 wrote: »

It seems that greed is only bad when it uses derivative instruments. Everything he did that worked was right and wonderful, his failures were guilty and abhorrent. How wonderfully Shakespearian and convenient this all is.

Derivative instruments? hmm, you use them yourself from time to time? Maybe thats why Damocles is hurting, and hence the slight? lol!

CFD's do not produce anything- they don't manufacture anything, they don't grow anything. People who are into CFD's a re not looking to add to the world !! People who invest in 'instruments' are only after one thing- self interest- money.

All people who invest in CFD's do is try to take from the world, and as much as possible.
Sean Quinn is now in the blame game- its that guy or this guys fault!! What a load of crap. Admit you were greedy Sean, and you lost because of it.
If Sean Quinn had invested 4 billion in people, and growth, and produced something valuable- say bio fuels, or wind energy, or cancer research, he would not be in debt for the rest of his life. He gambled the money, and lost. To blame 'experts' is immature. They could not make Sean Quinn do anything. He wanted to hear that CFD's would make him more, and thats what they told him!!

Fulton Crown

eddison wrote: »

Derivative instruments? hmm, you use them yourself from time to time? Maybe thats why Damocles is hurting, and hence the slight? lol!

CFD's do not produce anything- they don't manufacture anything, they don't grow anything. People who are into CFD's a re not looking to add to the world !! People who invest in 'instruments' are only after one thing- self interest- money.

All people who invest in CFD's do is try to take from the world, and as much as possible.
Sean Quinn is now in the blame game- its that guy or this guys fault!! What a load of crap. Admit you were greedy Sean, and you lost because of it.
If Sean Quinn had invested 4 billion in people, and growth, and produced something valuable- say bio fuels, or wind energy, or cancer research, he would not be in debt for the rest of his life. He gambled the money, and lost. To blame 'experts' is immature. They could not make Sean Quinn do anything. He wanted to hear that CFD's would make him more, and thats what they told him!!

Well said pal ..can't really add any more ...Quinn was brought down beacuse of one thing ...Greed.

And the muppets in the Border areas who think he is God Almighty....well he fcuked with you and your families futures......

And did not fcukin care..................

RandolphEsq

end a eknny wrote: »

lets see they where on the sidelines promising more spending less taxes and would have created the same problem. they also ripped the dick of the goverment from the opposition at every oppourtunity and made ireland look like an easy target for the markets to take advantage did they do this to help ireland or themselves and miraculiously when they get into power they continue where the last goverment left off save a few platitudes like ministerial cars and miniscule paycuts to quell the morons they like to call the voting public. as for the country being bankrupted we still have the highest minimum wage and probably highest average wages and welfare payments in europe WHY because we are worth it

The mess made over the past decade is hardly going to be fixed within a couple months, get real

JonathanAnon

charlemont wrote: »

Something very dodgy about all of this, I wonder was Sean Quinn tricked into investing on purpose

lol.. that's a bit too Jim Corr for me... But I certainly have a big problem understanding how a man who is obviously a VERY sharp business man, put 4 Billion in contracts for difference of ONE SINGLE company. This was absolute madness, and nothing I have heard or read in the media has explained what convinced him to take this step.. Surely his financial advisors could not have recommended this to him???

Do we have any idea how close Quinn's relationship with Fitzpatrick and Drumm was.. He was one of the group that borrowed from the bank to buy shares, so I assume that they were very good friends and he was probably took advice from them and took action based on their opinions ?

later12

eddison wrote: »

Derivative instruments? hmm, you use them yourself from time to time? Maybe thats why Damocles is hurting, and hence the slight? lol!

No. I don't. But anyone who wishes to engage in trading derivatives is perfectly entitled to do so.

CFD's do not produce anything- they don't manufacture anything, they don't grow anything.

False. They are simply a part of the non traded economy, just like gambling, legal advice, tax consultancy, and so on. CFDs provide jobs for many people in brokerage and support services, companies such as IBM who are engaged in the traded sectors can and do employ derivatives to enhance their productivity.

People who are into CFD's a re not looking to add to the world !!

Nonsense, that's just meaningless tripe. Might wash with the viewership of Seventh Heaven but in real life, we don't make demands that everybody "add to the world!!", even though as I said CfDs are other derivative instruments can be great ways of creating, enhancing and even enjoying wealth. This in turn has a knock on effect into other sectors.

later12

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Do we have any idea how close Quinn's relationship with Fitzpatrick and Drumm was.. He was one of the group that borrowed from the bank to buy shares, so I assume that they were very good friends and he was probably took advice from them and took action based on their opinions ?

If you read The Fitzpatrick tapes or other contemporary accounts, it is actually quite clear that not alone did FitzPatrick not like Quinn, neither were they friends. Anglo themselvs had no material interest in Quinn being involved in CfDs on the company to the extent that he was involved and when they found out, Quinn agreed to get rid of CfDs (although apparently, he did not follow through on that for fear of loss).

end a eknny

RandolphEsq wrote: »

The mess made over the past decade is hardly going to be fixed within a couple months, get real

it wont be fixed in a couple of years either at the end of the day we have no control over or future if the worldwide recession ends eventually the irish ecconomy will rise just a lot slower than all the major ecconomies

end a eknny

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Well said pal ..can't really add any more ...Quinn was brought down beacuse of one thing ...Greed.

And the muppets in the Border areas who think he is God Almighty....well he fcuked with you and your families futures......

And did not fcukin care..................

doesnt make any sense sure they wouldnt have had a job if it wasnt for him so the worst that can happen is they lose their job and will be back at square one