Commercial Tax Renewal Heads Up!

cormie

There always seems to be some issue every time I go to the tax office. I've had to get a declaration stating an Astra coming from private tax to commercial when I bought it was for commercial use, so had to go to the Garda station to get a form stamped etc, that was fine.

My other vans were never requested to have this as they were always taxed as commercial (can you even tax a Transit privately?), as annoying as it is having to go to the tax office every time you want to renew commercial tax, this time I was asked to fill in the same form for the goods declaration and was told they have clamped down on it and the vans needed the same form. Because of this I didn't get it all done in one day so went back today with everything, or so I thought. Turns out my VAT registration document I had with me wasn't good enough as it was too old and any tradesman could still have this even if they've gone out of business and don't use their vehicle commercially anymore, so now I need to get something more recent before I can tax it again. There is nothing stated on the form saying it needs to be within the last X months etc.

So that will be day 3 going to the tax office. Why the tax office and revenue can't communicate with eachother to indeed ascertain that I am in business is beyond me in this day and age, furthermore, why they can't communicate the validity of my DOE and enable the whole process (bar the once off Garda stamp) to be completed online is also beyond me.

whippet

cormie wrote: »

So that will be day 3 going to the tax office. Why the tax office and revenue can't communicate with eachother to indeed ascertain that I am in business is beyond me in this day and age, furthermore, why they can't communicate the validity of my DOE and enable the whole process (bar the once off Garda stamp) to be completed online is also beyond me.

but if it was efficient and communicated properly there wouldn't be a need for so many frontline staff, stamping forms, nodding heads behind glass panels, pushing pens and shaking their heads.

It would be terrible if they couldn't find some work for them to do, sure the taxpayers money has to be spent somewhere =========>>>>> way off topic

cormie

Actually I may have made a slight mistake, would there even be any need for Garda involvement if there was a communicative procedure and system between the different bodies?

Owen

It's getting harder and harder to drive anything here. I just tried booking a VRT appointment in the local NCT centre. It won't be until the end of this month. On the old system, I'd have had it paid 4 days ago.

Tzkaka

cormie wrote: »

There always seems to be some issue every time I go to the tax office. I've had to get a declaration stating an Astra coming from private tax to commercial when I bought it was for commercial use, so had to go to the Garda station to get a form stamped etc, that was fine.

My other vans were never requested to have this as they were always taxed as commercial (can you even tax a Transit privately?), as annoying as it is having to go to the tax office every time you want to renew commercial tax, this time I was asked to fill in the same form for the goods declaration and was told they have clamped down on it and the vans needed the same form. Because of this I didn't get it all done in one day so went back today with everything, or so I thought. Turns out my VAT registration document I had with me wasn't good enough as it was too old and any tradesman could still have this even if they've gone out of business and don't use their vehicle commercially anymore, so now I need to get something more recent before I can tax it again. There is nothing stated on the form saying it needs to be within the last X months etc.

So that will be day 3 going to the tax office. Why the tax office and revenue can't communicate with eachother to indeed ascertain that I am in business is beyond me in this day and age, furthermore, why they can't communicate the validity of my DOE and enable the whole process (bar the once off Garda stamp) to be completed online is also beyond me.

So what if it is your only vehicle does that mean you cannot use it to drive to a holiday destination, bring your kids to school, shopping at the weekend, football training? It is an absolute joke if you ask me... Wouldn't all those things be personal use? Does every commercial driver in the country now have to buy a second car?

Welease

It just seems to be the new declarations that are causing a problem now.. Renewals seem to have calmed down since the initial confusion..

Mine was re-taxed last week with no questions, no extra forms, no VAT requests etc. (although I did use the pre-printed form they sent me, rather than filling out a form there, so that may have helped)..

I did ask previously why I had to do this all in person, when I was filling out the exact same form as a private tax driver and they could do this online.. The response was "that's a different department".. and the lady seemed to think that was an acceptable response.. No wonder it's a mess..

tinyjiney

Arent we all glad we voted Green now.......this whole scenario would never have been raised if they had'nt get in last time....;)

Our man in Havana

can you even tax a Transit privately

You can, it would just cost a small fortune to do so.

corktina

Tzkaka wrote: »

So what if it is your only vehicle does that mean you cannot use it to drive to a holiday destination, bring your kids to school, shopping at the weekend, football training? It is an absolute joke if you ask me... Wouldn't all those things be personal use? Does every commercial driver in the country now have to buy a second car?

It has always been the case that you cant use the vehicle for those purposes....never stopped anyone doing it though. (until now ..)

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

It has always been the case that you cant use the vehicle for those purposes....never stopped anyone doing it though. (until now ..)

Why are you saying that?
Is there any law which would say it's forbidden?
Because AFAIK there isn't.

To tax a vehicle as commercial, it needs to be used for commercial purposes, but there should be nothing stopping you to use this vehicle for private use as well.

L1011

Its hilarious that Revenue still have a BIK classification for people with commercial vehicles from their employers who use them privately when, erm, you're not allowed to...

Our man in Havana

I have never heard of any cases in court over someone using a commercial vehicle for private use.

Welease

CiniO wrote: »

Why are you saying that?
Is there any law which would say it's forbidden?
Because AFAIK there isn't.

To tax a vehicle as commercial, it needs to be used for commercial purposes, but there should be nothing stopping you to use this vehicle for private use as well.

As per my other post.. two forms are used for commercial tax.. RF111a (http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,23874,en.pdf) declaration that you will NOT use the vehicle for any form of social, domestic or pleasure purposes (and that part is bolded and underlined on the form).

And the RF100a form (https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF100A_en.pdf) which states any False Declarations could result in heavy fines..

Under those conditions you could be fined for using the vehicle for non commercial purposes (however, the reality appears that the Garda don't actively enforce this).

cormie

Was nicely surprised today to see that the motor tax renewal form I received for a commercial van, included an online renewal pin. Now it used to be the case that every time tax was due, you needed to go to the motor tax office with a valid DOE cert to renew.

Maybe I didn't cop it the last time I got a renewal form, but I went to the motortax office to renew and was never asked to produce my DOE cert so I presume the systems are now somewhat intertwined and this allows the motor tax to be renewed online aswell for commercials

Now if they could only get around to allowing revenue to communicate with the tax office, to communicate with the VTN centres, to communicate with the gardai and it would be a lot easier and no need to have forms and certs and pay €6 to swap for another cert etc. It's a step I guess!

Pottler

It is, to put it bluntly, a load of sh1te. I run 12 commercials, 2 private cars, from tippers, lutons to panel vans. I tax, insure and doe/nct them all, they're all open driving with multiple drivers. Between Taxing them, testing them, insuring them(and making sure they're all insured properly, ie the ins co. didn't feck up) it is a MEGA pain in the hole. Why the hell you can't just go to a post office and buy a tax disc is a total mystery to me. THIS IS A REVENUE RAISER ENDA, you muppet, why can I not just go buy a disc if I have the money?? It is not some privelege, or a "do you qualify" competition, it is just buying a road fund disc, why does it have to be such a pain?????

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

.............. Between Taxing them, testing them, insuring them(and making sure they're all insured properly, ie the ins co. didn't feck up) it is a MEGA pain in the hole. Why the hell you can't just go to a post office and buy a tax disc is a total mystery to me. THIS IS A REVENUE RAISER ENDA, you muppet, why can I not just go buy a disc if I have the money??.............

Would buying the tax disc at the post office rather than a motor tax office really make the overall pain in the hole much less?

cormie

I feel your pain, I run 5 myself and it's a difficult enough to keep on top of everything with 5. I like to keep mine in top condition and between going to mechanics, arranging DOE's, retests, repairs, tax office visits, it's a job in itself.

It's a pain too that the DOE is only valid from the date you test it, so unless you do it on the same day every year, you're losing a few days a year, unless of course you let it lapse for a few days which the current system is encouraging, I've heard of some people leaving it months.

Mycroft H

RoverJames wrote: »

Would buying the tax disc at the post office rather than a motor tax office really make the overall pain in the hole much less?

It really really would. It would save the revenue 60m euros per annum if it was moved to the post offices (according to the Postmasters union)

However it will never happen due to the sheer lack of will on the part of the government and croke park et al.

http://www.thejournal.ie/report-says-moving-motor-tax-services-to-post-office-will-save-e60m-439831-May2012/

BX 19

BX 19 wrote: »

It really really would. It would save the revenue 60m euros per annum if it was moved to the post offices (according to the Postmasters union).............

How does that make the pain in Pottler's arse any better?

Fishtits

Sod the Post Office and sod the Motor Tax Office too. Why can't we tax them online yet?

And while I'm at it, my local DOE center issues a cert stating that the vehicle is roadworthy, my tax office takes this cert from me, files it, issues their own version which states the same bloody thing (ie roadworthy) and charges me for the privilege ??? WTF? you couldn't make it up?

There's an awful lot of fat still to be cut from the system IMHO...

cormie

cormie wrote: »

Was nicely surprised today to see that the motor tax renewal form I received for a commercial van, included an online renewal pin. Now it used to be the case that every time tax was due, you needed to go to the motor tax office with a valid DOE cert to renew..............

Fishtits wrote: »

Sod the Post Office and sod the Motor Tax Office too. Why can't we tax them online yet?
...............

Looks like it's possible now.

cormie

Yep, possible, I'd be interested to know what the renewal form would say if it wasn't sent at the time a valid DOE was held. Even though I've taxed one van online, I still have to make the visit to the tax office (opened tue, wed thurs only from 10:30-14:00 :rolleyes:) to swap a written DOE cert for a office issued printed one and pay them €6 so if the Gardai do a check it comes back as roadworthy and I'll be on my way.

Our man in Havana

RoverJames wrote: »

Would buying the tax disc at the post office rather than a motor tax office really make the overall pain in the hole much less?

Longer opening hours and closer to home would be the advantages.

Mycroft H

Our man in Havana wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

Would buying the tax disc at the post office rather than a motor tax office really make the overall pain in the hole much less?

Longer opening hours and closer to home would be the advantages.

Plus saving money. Closing redundant tax offices or reducing their numbers too

Pottler

RoverJames wrote: »

Would buying the tax disc at the post office rather than a motor tax office really make the overall pain in the hole much less?

Seems to work quite well in the UK, and the post office is 2 mins down the road, the tax office is 3/4 hour with traffic, crap parking, a huge queue always and they want a different form they have dreamt up filled in every time. You should need NO paperwork at all, baring the Taxbook. It is a revenue raiser, it should be like buying a stamp. Display it on the windscreen, away you go.

Put the DOE on as a disc like the NCT disc as well, issued by your DOE center and let the Gardai enforce it. At a stroke, you have removed 90% of the beurocracy, make it a confiscatable offence not to have all correct, or a MASSIVE fine, and bingo, you save millions, raise millions more because people would actually all have tax as the penalty would not be worth avoiding getting it. Let the post office charge a €5 transaction fee, and redeploy the people in the "Tax office" to other roles. Change Drivers Licencing to a postal service only and you could relocate the staff to one central office with an efficent system in place. Jasus, this stuff is basic in the Private sector, why do the public sector love complicating things?

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

Seems to work quite well in the UK, and the post office is 2 mins down the road, the tax office is 3/4 hour with traffic, crap parking, a huge queue always.............

My local tax office is deserted in the middle of the month. The post office is jammed whenever I go

CiniO

RoverJames wrote: »

My local tax office is deserted in the middle of the month. The post office is jammed whenever I go

My motor tax office is 40km away from my house. I can't recall a single incident I went there and didn't have to wait at least 5 minutes in the queue (usually 15-30 minutes is the norm).

My local post office, is about 300metres away from my house. The longest I waited there in the queue was about 5 minutes and that was exceptional, as usually I can get straight to the counter.

Our man in Havana

Get rid of pensioners. They it will be slack always.

Farls

I taxed my jeep commercially at the end of last month again, first time I've been asked to fill in any extra forms, no mention of VAT numbers or anything like that all they wanted was my PPS number and my occupation and it stamped by a guard. I could of wrote anything down and it would of been fine .

They could easily do all this work online, the fact a garda has to stamp the form is irrelevant, it was the last day of the month and she was getting tennis elbow from stamping the dozens of 'off the road' forms, didn't read a line on one of them.

cormie

Same happened when I went to the Garda station,

Hi I just need a stamp on these 2 commercial vehicle decla..
BANG BANG
ok thanks!