IMF over here today reviewing our public service.

Phill Ewinn

Newstalk reported the IMF are in town to put their stamp on the public service funding by tjhe state. If benchmarked by other european nations pay and pensions might fall as much as 40% for those currently employed or retired. Is this it for the golden circle of higher paid PS workers in this oligarchy? We're to find out in Sept when payments from theIMF will be cut if we don't conform.

mickydoomsux

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Newstalk reported the IMF are in town to put their stamp on the public service funding by tjhe state. If benchmarked by other european nations pay and pensions might fall as much as 40% for those currently employed or retired. Is this it for the golden circle of higher paid PS workers in this oligarchy? We're to find out in Sept when payments from theIMF will be cut if we don't conform.

Will they be cutting welfare payments by 40% as well?

mathie

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Newstalk reported the IMF are in town to put their stamp on the public service funding by tjhe state. If benchmarked by other european nations pay and pensions might fall as much as 40% for those currently employed or retired. Is this it for the golden circle of higher paid PS workers in this oligarchy? We're to find out in Sept when payments from theIMF will be cut if we don't conform.

Nope that will be protected at all costs.

Lando Griffin

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Will they be cutting welfare payments by 40% as well?

Only for those who go to the welfare office wearing pagamas.

MagicSean

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

pay and pensions might fall as much as 40%

I'd be better off resigning, declaring bankruptcy and living on the welfare train.

Phill Ewinn

k_mac wrote: »

I'd be better off resigning, declaring bankruptcy and living on the welfare train.

There'll be ques around the block for your job as soon as you do.

MagicSean

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

There'll be ques around the block for your job as soon as you do.

I doubt it. There's a recruitment embargo.

admiralofthefleet

the should go up to the restaraunt royale on stephen street to see the real dublin

phasers

Sack everyone! Cut the dole by 100%!


Problem?

th3 s1aught3r

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Newstalk reported the IMF are in town to put their stamp on the public service funding by tjhe state. If benchmarked by other european nations pay and pensions might fall as much as 40% for those currently employed or retired. Is this it for the golden circle of higher paid PS workers in this oligarchy? We're to find out in Sept when payments from theIMF will be cut if we don't conform.

its probably hard for a German to understand why they are loaning money to a bankrupt country and then find out that the Iirsh public servents are among the highest paid in the world. :eek:
So they will just say right lads, no more cash unless you sort this sh1t out
The governemt wont do anything unless a gun to their heads, after all they are public servents and on the gravy train for years too

mickydoomsux

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

its probably hard for a German to understand why they are loaning money to a bankrupt country and then find out that the Iirsh public servents are among the highest paid in the world. :eek:
So they will just say right lads, no more cash unless you sort this sh1t out
The governemt wont do anything unless a gun to their heads, after all they are public servents and on the gravy train for years too

I love that public servants including politicians are on the gravy train because they are amoung the highest paid in the world, yet our welfare payments are some of the highest in the world and people kick up a stink if you suggest people are on the welfare gravy train.

pragmatic1

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

its probably hard for a German to understand why they are loaning money to a bankrupt country and then find out that the Iirsh public servents are among the highest paid in the world. :eek:
So they will just say right lads, no more cash unless you sort this sh1t out
The governemt wont do anything unless a gun to their heads, after all they are public servents and on the gravy train for years too

Its hard for Irish people to understand why we're getting billions in loans so we can give it to private German institutions.

ilovesleep

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

its probably hard for a German to understand why they are loaning money to a bankrupt country and then find out that the Iirsh public servents are among the highest paid in the world. :eek:
So they will just say right lads, no more cash unless you sort this sh1t out
The governemt wont do anything unless a gun to their heads, after all they are public servents and on the gravy train for years too

Germany had the debts of WW2 to pay off until last year. Ireland was thrieving at one stage and was able to some degree to pay high PS, SW pay. 1 of the problems Ireland has is the deficit, when people started to lose jobs the tax band narrowed and wasn't corrected on time. For some time we were good. It doesn't matter wheather for example SW is 188 or 100 a week, there would still be a deficit, maybe not as large.

I wonder if Germany didnt have the ww2 debts to pay off would they have been able to pay a little more in sw instead of treating their citizens like dying dogs

sbsquarepants

I love that public servants including politicians are on the gravy train because they are amoung the highest paid in the world, yet our welfare payments are some of the highest in the world and people kick up a stink if you suggest people are on the welfare gravy train.

I know which train i'd rather be on!

SEPT 23 1989

The Germans are not noted for their sense of humour

pragmatic1

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I love that public servants including politicians are on the gravy train because they are amoung the highest paid in the world, yet our welfare payments are some of the highest in the world and people kick up a stink if you suggest people are on the welfare gravy train.

What welfare payments are you referring to. Is it just the baddies on the dole or is it carers, pensions and disability too.

smokedeels

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

the should go up to the restaraunt royale on stephen street to see the real dublin

What's the menu like, these people feed exclusively on the souls of orphans

dj jarvis

about time

a ambulance driver working in Dublin ( lets say right off the bat they do a job i admire 100% and is needed beyond doubt ) get paid more than
a jnr CONSULTANT in a Finnish hospital ,

a jnr teacher in Ireland get paid more than university lecturer in Germany

even with price difference civil servants in Ireland get paid roughly 40% more than the European equivalent

so i tell you this now - the savings needed from the CPD will not be made ,
the Germans ( imf and emf ) will make this following move
they WILL turn off the cash flow tap unless the civil service wages and numbers are cut , simple as that
they view it as a forgone conclusion and tbh we will have NO legs 2 stand on ,

merkle will not lose her election because they are bank rolling over paid irish civil servants , german public opinion will make sure of this

ALL THESE savings need 2 be made by end of summer , they are back in town in september and if we dont do it then they (imf / emf ) WILL

we cant afford to run the country - savage cuts that most of the private sector have taken will now be leveled at the service and then some

mark my words un less a donor gives Ireland inc 7 BILLION , heads in the civil service are gonna roll like never before

he who pays the piper calls the tune , atbh we stopped paying the bills years ago

sbsquarepants

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The Germans are not noted for their sense of humour

They aren't all that great at winning wars either.
We should tell them we're keeping their bailout money and threaten to kick their asses if they rat.:D

themadchef

They have us by the balls now. Cut or be cut.

FF didint have the guts to do it, FG can blame the IMF and finally it will be done. Public sector, welfare and services cuts. Slash and burn and get on with it. Deficit of over 10% here guys, imagine running a business like that?

danbohan

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Newstalk reported the IMF are in town to put their stamp on the public service funding by tjhe state. If benchmarked by other european nations pay and pensions might fall as much as 40% for those currently employed or retired. Is this it for the golden circle of higher paid PS workers in this oligarchy? We're to find out in Sept when payments from theIMF will be cut if we don't conform.

stop it now , your getting me very exited !

Dyr

smokedeels wrote: »

What's the menu like, these people feed exclusively on the souls of orphans

the only souls in the restaurant royale are lost ones :eek:

bryaner

ilovesleep wrote: »

Germany had the debts of WW2 to pay off until last year. Ireland was thrieving at one stage and was able to some degree to pay high PS, SW pay. 1 of the problems Ireland has is the deficit, when people started to lose jobs the tax band narrowed and wasn't corrected on time. For some time we were good. It doesn't matter wheather for example SW is 188 or 100 a week, there would still be a deficit, maybe not as large.

I wonder if Germany didnt have the ww2 debts to pay off would they have been able to pay a little more in sw instead of treating their citizens like dying dogs

What about their debts from November 1989?

Coriolanus

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I love that public servants including politicians are on the gravy train because they are amoung the highest paid in the world, yet our welfare payments are some of the highest in the world and people kick up a stink if you suggest people are on the welfare gravy train.

I think you'll find that most people giving out about the ps also give. ouyt qboit the welfare.

LETHAL LADY

danbohan wrote: »

stop it now , your getting me very exited !

Great to see someone take such delight on the misery about to be inflicted on the Irish people.

mick kk

i will gladly take a pay cut of 40% - no problem....as long as my ever increasing mortgage repayments, creche fee [another mortgage of sorts], petrol for my car, health inurance, doctors fees [60 euro this week and 60 two weeks ago] etc. are also cut by 40%...I know..prices are falling but none of these things are falling in price.....I love the way our wages are compared with those of our neighbours...yet the taxes paid by those in the countries we are compared with are often lower, healthcare costs are usually lower [e.g NHS in UK means that health insurance is not essential]...When comparing with other countries these things must be taken into account..otherwise you simply cannot compare.

MagicSean

I'd also gladly accept a 40% paycut if we could default and declare a mortgage amnesty for private dwellings.

delonglad

mick kk wrote: »

I love the way our wages are compared with those of our neighbours...yet the taxes paid by those in the countries we are compared with are often lower

You'll find that the Dutch, Germans, Danish, French pay more than Ireland. Quick google http://www.businesspundit.com/12-countries-with-the-highest-lowest-tax-rates/

hardCopy

k_mac wrote: »

I'd also gladly accept a 40% paycut if we could default and declare a mortgage amnesty for private dwellings.

Cool, just gimme a heads up so I can buy a house first

dj jarvis

mick kk wrote: »

i will gladly take a pay cut of 40% - no problem....as long as my ever increasing mortgage repayments, creche fee [another mortgage of sorts], petrol for my car, health inurance, doctors fees [60 euro this week and 60 two weeks ago] etc. are also cut by 40%...I know..prices are falling but none of these things are falling in price.....I love the way our wages are compared with those of our neighbours...yet the taxes paid by those in the countries we are compared with are often lower, healthcare costs are usually lower [e.g NHS in UK means that health insurance is not essential]...When comparing with other countries these things must be taken into account..otherwise you simply cannot compare.

sorry but the 40% is calculated on ALL income and outgoings in each state
this was flagged by the IMF last time they were in town

and have you been 2 finland recently ? they are paid less - taxes are higher and cost of living is same as here , we are ALL going to get a huge drop in living standards very very soon

and i can see the german/french/finnish point of veiw , why should they pay for our OVER PAID civil service - FF added 70,000 new servants in less then 10 years ( 7 billion extra )

you do the math - if i was a servant of the state i would start hording canned food and bottled water - your going 2 need it

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

sorry but the 40% is calculated on ALL income and outgoings in each state
this was flagged by the IMF last time they were in town

and have you been 2 finland recently ? they are paid less - taxes are higher and cost of living is same as here , we are ALL going to get a huge drop in living standards very very soon

and i can see the german/french/finnish point of veiw , why should they pay for our OVER PAID civil service - FF added 70,000 new servants in less then 10 years ( 7 billion extra )

you do the math - if i was a servant of the state i would start hording canned food and bottled water - your going 2 need it

Drivel..

Dozen Wicked Words

Finland? Full of F*ckin Dublin Ambulance drivers.

For page upon page upon page of ALL these arguments the Irish Economy forum is the place you can pop over to, cut and then paste here in AH. Look out for the dogs on the street (they know all) and sacred cows, of which there are many.

dj jarvis

bryaner wrote: »

Drivel..

please point out where ?? ill wait or are you another keyboard warrior ???

LOL DID you read the title of this thread ?
the CPA was for fun was it ?
the IMF are here to review what they flagged was a 40% difference in payments
so im talking drivel am i ???
i had better ring them all and tell them they are making a mistake according to bryaner in his bunker of knowledge in meath
im sure they cant wait

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

sorry but the 40% is calculated on ALL income and outgoings in each state
this was flagged by the IMF last time they were in town

and have you been 2 finland recently ? they are paid less - taxes are higher and cost of living is same as here , we are ALL going to get a huge drop in living standards very very soon

and i can see the german/french/finnish point of veiw , why should they pay for our OVER PAID civil service - FF added 70,000 new servants in less then 10 years ( 7 billion extra )

you do the math - if i was a servant of the state i would start hording canned food and bottled water - your going 2 need it

The drivel is in bold.

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

please point out where ?? ill wait or are you another keyboard warrior ???

LOL DID you read the title of this thread ?
the CPA was for fun was it ?
the IMF are here to review what they flagged was a 40% difference in payments
so im talking drivel am i ???
i had better ring them all and tell them they are making a mistake according to bryaner in his bunker of knowledge in meath
im sure they cant wait

Your location says it all..:rolleyes:

Wibbs

We have a bloated inefficient public service and the highest paid in the western world We have the highest paid dolies in the western world too. And please please bugger off all those who come the poor mouth on this. That sense of entitlement and lack of fiscal forethought is what has gotten us to this stage. These financial drains and daftness needs to be slashed. Somethings got to give.

OH and BTW I'd be "burning the bondholders" on first principle. Actually scratch that I'd be saying "Fúck off to the bondholders".

Wibbs

bryaner wrote: »

The drivel is in bold.

Actually on the Finnish front he/she's not inaccurate. The canned food of course bit is clearly OTT.

dj jarvis

bryaner wrote: »

[/B]

The drivel is in bold.

ok so ill ask again , have you ever been 2 finland ? i know because my wife and 2 children are Finnish citizens , i KNOW what the cost of living is in Finland , trust me if it was cheaper i would be living there , wouldn't I

the dole is a lot less - the income tax is higher - hence the reason the new right wing political has topped the polls in Finland - one key point is not having to pay for Irish civil servants, it a big debate in that country , the Finnish government has ALREADY pointed this out publicly , but you being the font of all knowledge you already know this :eek:

and for you second highlighted point, if poss 30,000 people are going to be let go and a min of 20% wage cut would you not start " saving " ?

but sure you can bang out one word responses all day but sure why dont ya go on and prove me wrong , again im here all day

dj jarvis

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually on the Finnish front he/she's not inaccurate. The canned food of course bit is clearly OTT.

thank you. it was a over statement to make a point but some bunker dwellers just aint getting it

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

ok so ill ask again , have you ever been 2 finland ? i know because my wife and 2 children are Finnish citizens , i KNOW what the cost of living is in Finland , trust me if it was cheaper i would be living there , wouldn't I

the dole is a lot less - the income tax is higher - hence the reason the new right wing political has topped the polls in Finland - one key point is not having to pay for Irish civil servants, it a big debate in that country , the Finnish government has ALREADY pointed this out publicly , but you being the font of all knowledge you already know this :eek:

and for you second highlighted point, if poss 30,000 people are going to be let go and a min of 20% wage cut would you not start " saving " ?

but sure you can bang out one word responses all day but sure why dont ya go on and prove me wrong , again im here all day

Social security in Finland is, compared internationally, very comprehensive. In the late 1980s, Finland had one of the world's most advanced welfare systems, one that guaranteed decent living conditions for all Finns. Since then social security has been cut back, but still the system is one of the most comprehensive in the world. Created almost entirely during the first three decades after World War II, the social security system was an outgrowth of the traditional Nordic belief that the state was not inherently hostile to the well-being of its citizens, but could intervene benevolently on their behalf. According to some social historians, the basis of this belief was a relatively benign history that had allowed the gradual emergence of a free and independent peasantry in the Nordic countries and had curtailed the dominance of the nobility and the subsequent formation of a powerful right wing. Finland's history has been harsher than the histories of the other Nordic countries, but not harsh enough to bar the country from following their path of social development.[1]


http://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=files/suo/eng/i07.asp&c=suo&l=eng&m=02

dj jarvis

bryaner wrote: »

Your location says it all..:rolleyes:

WOW i NEVER heard that before , your really on fire today aint ya:eek:

Refugee from RealLife

Why shouldn't the IMF be over here reviewing the PS, they are paying for it. At least they might stop the money being pissed away by shoddy management.

dj jarvis

bryaner wrote: »

Social security in Finland is, compared internationally, very comprehensive. In the late 1980s, Finland had one of the world's most advanced welfare systems, one that guaranteed decent living conditions for all Finns. Since then social security has been cut back, but still the system is one of the most comprehensive in the world. Created almost entirely during the first three decades after World War II, the social security system was an outgrowth of the traditional Nordic belief that the state was not inherently hostile to the well-being of its citizens, but could intervene benevolently on their behalf. According to some social historians, the basis of this belief was a relatively benign history that had allowed the gradual emergence of a free and independent peasantry in the Nordic countries and had curtailed the dominance of the nobility and the subsequent formation of a powerful right wing. Finland's history has been harsher than the histories of the other Nordic countries, but not harsh enough to bar the country from following their path of social development.


[1]

so the best you can come up with was a paragraph on how good the Finnish social welfare system is ???
i never said it was not , it was the cost of living we were talking about
still dont change the point i made that the cost of living is about the same but in Ireland the dole is much higher , the civil service gets paid a LOT more over here but yet the costs are very similar

so try keep on topic if ya can - its about irish civil servants being paid 2 much and the fact that the IMF is going to change that very soon

the assertion that the irish should get more because everything is more expensive is just not true , and you can try bull**** an answer in return but it still wont change the facts and figures

MagicSean

Refugee from RealLife wrote: »

Why shouldn't the IMF be over here reviewing the PS, they are paying for it. At least they might stop the money being pissed away by shoddy management.

No they aren't. We are paying for it. They're just the loan shark.

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

WOW i NEVER heard that before , your really on fire today aint ya:eek:

Think you have a keyboard problem.

MagicSean

dj jarvis wrote: »

so the best you can come up with was a paragraph on how good the Finnish social welfare system is ???
i never said it was not , it was the cost of living we were talking about
still dont change the point i made that the cost of living is about the same but in Ireland the dole is much higher , the civil service gets paid a LOT more over here but yet the costs are very similar

so try keep on topic if ya can - its about irish civil servants being paid 2 much and the fact that the IMF is going to change that very soon

the assertion that the irish should get more because everything is more expensive is just not true , and you can try bull**** an answer in return but it still wont change the facts and figures

You have to compare all aspects. There's no point leaving it at a comparison of gross pay and income tax. PRSI, USC, pension levy need to be taken into account as well as cost of living. You also need to look at what you get in return for the tax you pay too.

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

ok so ill ask again , have you ever been 2 finland ? i know because my wife and 2 children are Finnish citizens , i KNOW what the cost of living is in Finland , trust me if it was cheaper i would be living there , wouldn't I

the dole is a lot less - the income tax is higher - hence the reason the new right wing political has topped the polls in Finland - one key point is not having to pay for Irish civil servants, it a big debate in that country , the Finnish government has ALREADY pointed this out publicly , but you being the font of all knowledge you already know this :eek:

and for you second highlighted point, if poss 30,000 people are going to be let go and a min of 20% wage cut would you not start " saving " ?

but sure you can bang out one word responses all day but sure why dont ya go on and prove me wrong , again im here all day

Did you not..;)

bryaner

k_mac wrote: »

You have to compare all aspects. There's no point leaving it at a comparison of gross pay and income tax. PRSI, USC, pension levy need to be taken into account as well as cost of living. You also need to look at what you get in return for the tax you pay too.

Why do Finland not lob all their tax money into dud banks as well?

dj jarvis

bryaner wrote: »

Why do Finland not lob all their tax money into dud banks as well?

bank debt and sovereign debt are two different things , please keep up

also you still have not answered why said governments should pay for our bloted and over paid civil service ???

THEY ARE PAYING _ THEY WILL CALL THE TUNE

i direct you to my first post , please read it

bryaner

dj jarvis wrote: »

bank debt and sovereign debt are two different things , please keep up

also you still have not answered why said governments should pay for our bloted and over paid civil service ???

THEY ARE PAYING _ THEY WILL CALL THE TUNE

i direct you to my first post , please read it

Are you ok? Have you been in a coma.

They should be separate but not now.

dj jarvis

k_mac wrote: »

You have to compare all aspects. There's no point leaving it at a comparison of gross pay and income tax. PRSI, USC, pension levy need to be taken into account as well as cost of living. You also need to look at what you get in return for the tax you pay too.

i can compare , the Finnish system also has charges ( called other names but roughly the same as ours ) and they still pay out more in direct/indirect taxes but they get paid less in employment , civil service or on the dole

now what part of that are people not getting ?