Flashing the lights

PAULWATSON

Was blasting up the Newry/Lisburn road to a meeting in Belfast.

Few cars flashed the lights, I eased off the speed and surely enough there are two of the PSNI's finest camped out around the corner, speed gunning motorists.

Seems that such action, a "civic duty" in my opinion, is a long lost memory on southern roads. Have the irish people really been brainwashed into believeing that these traps are for "safety".

In the North lights will be flashed to alert people to cozzers, customs, accidents and dangerous issues on the road ahead.


This mentality of "I'm a good little guy, if dem bad people speed, dey are a danger and diserve to bee fined".

Grow a pair.

Einstein

I won't flash lights to anyone tbh, regardless of speedcheck or checkpoint.
If you're speeding, or you have no tax / insurance / nct you deserve to be caught.

Just my 2 cents

Inbox

Sure dont people get done for warning oncoming traffic?

PAULWATSON

Einstein wrote: »

I won't flash lights to anyone tbh, regardless of speedcheck or checkpoint.
If you're speeding, or you have no tax / insurance / nct you deserve to be caught.

Just my 2 cents

:pac: Good lad. Are we "all in this together"?

PAULWATSON

Inbox wrote: »

Sure dont people get done for warning oncoming traffic?

Lifes a risk mate, don't be cowed into the corner.

PAULWATSON

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Lifes a riskk mate, don't be cowed into the corner.

So why should other people take risks in order to save you from the consequences of your own risk?

Einstein

PAULWATSON wrote: »

:pac: Good lad.

Cheers. You're so cool.

Bullseye1

I'm curious as to why it is an offence to warn other drivers of speedchecks ahead? If there was a hazard like a crash ahead you would warn oncoming drivers.

ShadowHearth

That was extremely popular back in Lithuania 6 years ago. Don't know about it now thought.

I remember radio stations even had reports after news " tree hugger locations " . People would call to radio telling the spots where police was camping out. Radio was giving info tO the rest of us.


As for: you deserve to be fought if you speeding or have no tax etc... You newer know whatcan happen to you... Many you were doing 10 over the speed limit just because you forgot... Black and White can be only in a perfect world...

the_syco

Flashing oncoming drivers gets you a hefty fine if the Gardai catch you.

Upheld a lot more in England, but still upheld here as well, me thinks.

Vicxas

I dont usually flag. but if theres an obstacle ahead of them i will.

keithclancy

Einstein wrote: »

I won't flash lights to anyone tbh, regardless of speedcheck or checkpoint.
If you're speeding, or you have no tax / insurance / nct you deserve to be caught.

Just my 2 cents

Don't join the AA then .... they have a Dirty ... Dirty secret.

http://www.theaa.com/aboutaa/history.html

1905

An AA man with his bicycle A group of motoring enthusiasts met at the Trocadero restaurant in London's West End on 29 June to form the Automobile Association (the AA) – a body initially intended to help motorists avoid police speed traps. As motoring became more popular, so did we – the AA's 100 members in 1905 grew to 83,000 by 1914. As AA membership expanded, so did our activities.

The Bishop Basher

I thought speed "traps" were all about reducing speed, not catching speeding motorists. That why they advertise potential locations and put up speed camera signs etc.

Fining people for flashing lights is just another reason to believe this is all about revenue, not saving lives.

Anan1

Swanner wrote: »

I thought speed "traps" were all about reducing speed, not catching speeding motorists. That why they advertise potential locations and put up speed camera signs etc.

Fining people for flashing lights is just another reason to believe this is all about revenue, not saving lives.

Let's imagine you're driving from Dublin to Galway, the roads are clear, and you're in a hurry. You know there will be two speed traps on your route. Would you get there quicker if you knew in advance where the traps were, or if you didn't?

stealthyspeeder

Firstly I always flash oncoming traffic to warn them off a speed check.

If they are speeding, they will slow down. Surely this is what the purpose of the speed check is according to the officials.... to get ppl to slow down. What offense are you guilty of if you do this? (misuse of lights is the most serious)

If dont flash soley* becasue you want others to get caught, you need to take a big step back, and look at the overall picture of how your life is working out for you, and what you can do to make it better so you are not so miserable!

*I know some dont as they couldnt be arsed, dont care, scared of the above hypothetical chance of getting done for flashing or are too busy focusing on your own speedometer thats fair dues.

Anan1

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly I always flash oncoming traffic to warn them off a speed check.

If they are speeding, they will slow down. Surely this is what the purpose of the speed check is according to the officials.... to get ppl to slow down..

See my post above.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

What offense are you guilty of if you do this? (misuse of lights is the most serious)

I'm guessing it's some watered-down version of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice type thing - certainly a lot more serious than misuse of lights.

I speed regularly (& stealthily!) myself, but that doesn't make the counter-arguments any less valid.

Satanta

Yeah... I think everyone should be able to go "blasting" up the road to wherever they are going with impunity. Everyone would be so much happier and safer because they would be getting to do what they want. There really is no need to enforce speed limits because I believe history has shown that everyone behaves responsibly on the roads and that is the reason there is no accidents or deaths. The people that operate the speed traps and the people that dont flash at speeding motorists should definitely "grow a pair". What are they afraid off? That someone would lose control of their vehicle at speed and hurt someone. That is just ridiculous.

Helium

PAULWATSON wrote: »

:pac: Good lad. Are we "all in this together"?

So lets do like North African countries and congregate at Leinster House.

I have few towns to liberate on way there, but I'll Flash me lights at ye when I get there.

BlackWizard

I get flashed nearly everytime heading to Wicklow. I have never been flashed anywhere else though.

The worst flashes are the ones from behind :mad: Followed by the lovely postal letter with a picture of your reg.

stealthyspeeder

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm guessing it's some watered-down version of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice type thing - certainly a lot more serious than misuse of lights.

This isnt directed at you personaly Anan1, just easier to use "you" when describing!

If you are perverting the course of justice, a crime has to be commited first. As the Guards cannot tell the speed of an oncoming coming car with the mere naked eye from a stationary point, how would you be able to detirmine if a car coming towards you while driving? Impossible, therefore it cannot be shown that a crime has been commited.

Secondly, if you flash an oncoming speeding (which can be proven remember) car , it would have to be shown that your signal was given as a warning for the sole purpose of warning the offender that that there was a police check ahead, and to slow down so that they do not get caught. I flash my lights for various reasons, such as to warn of a hazard such as something on the road, (in the last month a log, drunk pedestrians), some people also flash to say hi. Also your hand or knee can slip and accidently flash the liights. Anyway I think the Guards would have great difficulty proviving that you were flashing in order to get a law breaking motorist to slow down to a limit were they were not breaking the law.

Now thirdly and most importantly, the objective to the checks is to get ppl to slow down. If all the above could be proved (which it cant) what you have done is get the motorist to slow down. Surely you have acheieved what the guards have set out to do with no beaurocratic fines and courts and manpower. Why to they have road signs informing you that roads have cameras on them? flashing the lights is exactly the same as seeing one of these signs for the driver who is flashed!!

Anan1 wrote: »

I speed regularly (& stealthily!) myself, but that doesn't make the counter-arguments any less valid.

I think it does in the case of flashing! :cool:

E39MSport

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly I always flash oncoming traffic to warn them off a speed check.

If they are speeding, they will slow down. Surely this is what the purpose of the speed check is according to the officials.... to get ppl to slow down. What offense are you guilty of if you do this? (misuse of lights is the most serious)

If dont flash soley* becasue you want others to get caught, you need to take a big step back, and look at the overall picture of how your life is working out for you, and what you can do to make it better so you are not so miserable!
*I know some dont as they couldnt be arsed, dont care, scared of the above hypothetical chance of getting done for flashing or are too busy focusing on your own speedometer thats fair dues.

Stepped back and took a look. It's hunky dorey. Thanks for your concern though.

Catch ya later.

stephendevlin

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

What offense are you guilty of if you do this? (misuse of lights is the most serious)

Perverting the course of Justice is the term they use when you get nicked for it!

Daegerty

I always warn people of upcoming GoSh1t vans.

Anan1

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

This isnt directed at you personaly Anan1, just easier to use "you" when describing!

If you are perverting the course of justice, a crime has to be commited first. As the Guards cannot tell the speed of an oncoming coming car with the mere naked eye from a stationary point, how would you be able to detirmine if a car coming towards you while driving? Impossible, therefore it cannot be shown that a crime has been commited.

Secondly, if you flash an oncoming speeding (which can be proven remember) car , it would have to be shown that your signal was given as a warning for the sole purpose of warning the offender that that there was a police check ahead, and to slow down so that they do not get caught. I flash my lights for various reasons, such as to warn of a hazard such as something on the road, (in the last month a log, drunk pedestrians), some people also flash to say hi. Also your hand or knee can slip and accidently flash the liights. Anyway I think the Guards would have great difficulty proviving that you were flashing in order to get a law breaking motorist to slow down to a limit were they were not breaking the law.

Re the exact ins and outs of the law, I really wouldn't know. I certainly agree that it's potentially a hard one to get a conviction on, but with the right Garda/judge combo I wouldn't rule it out.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Now thirdly and most importantly, the objective to the checks is to get ppl to slow down. If all the above could be proved (which it cant) what you have done is get the motorist to slow down. Surely you have acheieved what the guards have set out to do with no beaurocratic fines and courts and manpower. Why to they have road signs informing you that roads have cameras on them? flashing the lights is exactly the same as seeing one of these signs for the driver who is flashed!!

For marked cameras you're right, of course. I was thinking of covert traps - warning someone of one of these defeats the purpose, which is deterrence.

To illustrate this, I was on the M50 last night doing an indicated 140km/h when a silver Focus saloon with rear antennae joined us from a slip road. I slowed to an indicated 105, he pulled a Transit doing maybe 130, and I went back to my previous speed. My doing 140 on the M50 is contingent on my keeping my current clean license.

b318isp

Troll?

coolbeans

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Was blasting up the Newry/Lisburn road to a meeting in Belfast.

Few cars flashed the lights, I eased off the speed and surely enough there are two of the PSNI's finest camped out around the corner, speed gunning motorists.

Seems that such action, a "civic duty" in my opinion, is a long lost memory on southern roads. Have the irish people really been brainwashed into believeing that these traps are for "safety".

In the North lights will be flashed to alert people to cozzers, customs, accidents and dangerous issues on the road ahead.


This mentality of "I'm a good little guy, if dem bad people speed, dey are a danger and diserve to bee fined".

Grow a pair.

"Civic duty" "Grow a pair" Kiddie talk...FFS, how was school today?
You seem like a typical little Irelander, "ah shur they're all at it", "they're all out to get us". I bet you'd never "snitch" either. I dunno...there's a bigger picture here you know. They do advertise the locations you know. They have made an effort to make the Gatso vans work. Really, I think you are quite sad and wonder if attitudes like yours i.e. a complete lack of understanding of the real meaning of civic duty and community spirit is one of the factors that got this country into the mess it's in at the moment.

omen80

PAULWATSON wrote: »

This mentality of "I'm a good little guy, if dem bad people speed, dey are a danger and diserve to bee fined".

Grow a pair.

I was almost with you there on this one until I saw the text speak.
If you want me to translate that for you - I was almost wit u der on dis 1 til I saw de txt spk.

KamiKazi

I warn other bikers, have given up warning cars.

hairy sailor

i passed 2 vans in the last week,one on the kilcullen-newbridge road & one on the naas-newbridge dual carraigeway,i was in my car the first time & motorbike the 2nd & on both occasions i warned oncoming traffic as i always do,the latter road is a dual carraigeway with a speed limit of 80 kmh,it's more or less a straight road & the cops are always camped there,seems obviously a money making road for the cops as ive been on small back roads where i was allowed to go faster nd never met a cop.

OldmanMondeo

I would only warn oncomming traffic if there was an accident etc ahead. But if there was a check point, for anything, I won't give any warning. If you want to speed, use green diesel, sponge the welfare, go ahead, but I won't be helping you get away with it.

ottostreet

I flash, but only for speedchecks/camera vans, not for checkpoints.

I flash for about 3-4 minutes approching the checkpoint, or until more roads are joining up or whatever, so less motorists approaching will actually reach the checkpoint.

I never flash any Fords/Vectras, or Avensis'esisis.

I always say to myself 'Bad time to be driving a Mondeo, you unfortunate'.

Reloc8

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Firstly I always flash oncoming traffic to warn them off a speed check.

If they are speeding, they will slow down. Surely this is what the purpose of the speed check is according to the officials.... to get ppl to slow down. What offense are you guilty of if you do this? (misuse of lights is the most serious)
.

I'll dig it out later but warning off other motorists is a specific offence under the RTA's (€800 fine first offence I think).

De Hipster

the_syco wrote: »

Flashing oncoming drivers gets you a hefty fine if the Gardai catch you.

...but I know/recognise so many drivers on my journeys!

OldmanMondeo

ottostreet wrote: »

I always say to myself 'Bad time to be driving a Mondeo, you unfortunate'.

Not for that much longer, Toyota ahve the contract to supply the Guards now... Avensis all the way from now on....

Daegerty

Reloc8 wrote: »

I'll dig it out later but warning off other motorists is a specific offence under the RTA's (€800 fine first offence I think).

Surely this doesn't apply to GoSh1t vans

vetstu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiQ1kkknU_k

TheZ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/4569124.stm

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/2333.html

LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I agree. On the Crown Court's finding, no driver to whom the hand signals were directed was either exceeding the speed limit or likely to do so at the location of the speed trap. In these circumstances, there was no actual obstruction of the police. On the authorities referred to by my Lord, going back to Bastable v Little [1907] 1 KB 59, no offence of obstructing the police in the course of their duty was committed. I, too, would answer the question posed in the affirmative and dismiss the appeal. The appeal is therefore dismissed.

Seth Brundle

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I'm curious as to why it is an offence to warn other drivers of speedchecks ahead? If there was a hazard like a crash ahead you would warn oncoming drivers.

Obstructing a garda in the course of their duties (or something)

Swanner wrote: »

Fining people for flashing lights is just another reason to believe this is all about revenue, not saving lives.

The gardai daon't get to choose the punishment - the TDs who made the legislation did! The gardai just enforce the laws they are given.
However, the gardai don't get the revenue from catching someone who flashes their lights. Would you warn someone that you thought was a drink driver that there was a checkpoint ahead? Whats the difference?

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

If you are perverting the course of justice, a crime has to be commited first. As the Guards cannot tell the speed of an oncoming coming car with the mere naked eye from a stationary point, how would you be able to detirmine if a car coming towards you while driving? Impossible, therefore it cannot be shown that a crime has been commited.

It has nothing to do with the speed of the oncoming car. It has to do with you flashing them about a garda check ahead.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Secondly, if you flash an oncoming speeding (which can be proven remember) car , it would have to be shown that your signal was given as a warning for the sole purpose of warning the offender that that there was a police check ahead, and to slow down so that they do not get caught. I flash my lights for various reasons, such as to warn of a hazard such as something on the road, (in the last month a log, drunk pedestrians), some people also flash to say hi. Also your hand or knee can slip and accidently flash the liights. Anyway I think the Guards would have great difficulty proviving that you were flashing in order to get a law breaking motorist to slow down to a limit were they were not breaking the law.

A judge would easily rip you to shreds if you started that nonsense!

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Now thirdly and most importantly, the objective to the checks is to get ppl to slow down. If all the above could be proved (which it cant) what you have done is get the motorist to slow down. Surely you have acheieved what the guards have set out to do with no beaurocratic fines and courts and manpower. Why to they have road signs informing you that roads have cameras on them? flashing the lights is exactly the same as seeing one of these signs for the driver who is flashed!!

But its not your job to try to enforce the law - that's a role for the gardai!

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I think it does in the case of flashing! :cool:

But its not your decision!


Me? I speed all the time and still have (so far) managed to avoid any points. I keep my eyes peeled as much as I can and (most of the time) don't do anything stupid. I believe that although I drive fast, I'm quite observant, knowing who is where on the road. However, contrast this with the vast majority of numpties out there who don't know their elbow from their arse when they sit behind the wheel. Why the hell would I warn them?

The Bishop Basher

kbannon wrote: »

Would you warn someone that you thought was a drink driver that there was a checkpoint ahead? Whats the difference?

There is a massive difference between someone travelling 10/20 mph over an often ridiculously low speed limit on a good road and someone climbing into the car and driving after 3/4 pints.

Seth Brundle

Swanner wrote: »

There is a massive difference between someone travelling 10/20 mph over an often ridiculously low speed limit on a good road and someone climbing into the car and driving after 3/4 pints.

Not according to the law and I'm not referring to the actions of the other person, I'm referring to your actions!
What they are doing is incidental. However, in both cases you would be helping them evade the gardai at work.

Edit: plus you are assuming that someone is competent enough to drive at 20km/h over the posted limit. As I previously mentioned, most people in this country are not competent to drive within the speed limit, what makes you think they are suddenly competent to drive once they exceed it?

The Bishop Basher

I know where the speed checks are in my area and they are nearly all on good, modern, safe roads where the limits have been dropped for reasons unknown to anyone but those that set them.

We have a speed van regularly parked outside work at the end of a slip road. I've been travelling that road every day for the 6 or so years it's been open, my window faces directly onto it and i've never seen so much as a prang.

This angers people and nothing unites us like a common enemy.

If the Gardai enforced the rules of the road in a fair and honest fashion we would all row in behind them.

I'm grateful when people flash me and I will always return the courtesy.

If i get caught that's my hard luck.

I take your point and I do agree that there's nothing more dangerous then an incompetent driver who thinks he's competent and is travelling way above a safe speed for the road and conditions but we all know the scenario we're talking about here.

In short I wouldn't flash a little boy racer who appears to be speeding excessively, passing out dangerously etc. but if I see you coming towards me heading towards a checkpoint in a 60kph area I would flash and you might be glad of it someday !!

couldntthink

I say flash, unless the person is taking the piss and doing way over the limit, then I say f**k you, you deserve it.

In South Africa they have a guy called the pigspotter. I think he was on twitter warning of speed traps. But there it really is a money making scam. Most cops are on the take. My mate paid off a cop for speeding with a six pack of coke. It's very common. My first speeding incident cost me an 18 euro bribe. I was doing 55 in a 60, but the cop had his gun set to 98. Convenient. what would a garda say to 18 euro i wonder.

D_murph

I have been flashed many times in the past and a few of those times were when I could possibly have been nabbed. I make it my business since then to return the favour. Not everyone cops on when you do it but the odd time, you get a friendly wave etc, back to acknowledge what you did for them and that's my good deed done for the day.

I get the same kick out of that as the good little girls that will not do it because they believe that, "The evil speeders deserve it", .

Fair enough, some people will choose not to do this in case they get caught (which is a fair choice IMO). Better than the aforementioned anyway :rolleyes:.

Speed traps on perfectly good roads or dual carriageways with pitifully slow limits are nothing but a revenue raising scam and need to be tackled with teamwork like this. Its just a pity how the Irish blood has been thinned so much in the past century alone though :rolleyes:.

kdevitt

They advertise speed traps on the radio here - don't see the issue with it.

Surely the point should be to deter people from speeding, not catch them at it. If someone was about to beat the crap out of someone, or mug them - and you gave them a tap on the shoulder to say that the gardai were around the corner and they're likely to be caught, you'd have prevented a crime and be applauded for it. The fact that you warned them that they were going to be caught, rather than told them what they were doing was wrong / illegal shouldn't really make a difference.

There have been plenty of occasions where someone has flashed me and I've not been speeding. It just ensured I was extra careful not to stray over the limit, or that I hit the anchors a bit more firmly if changing down from a 100kph to a 50kph zone for instance.

sdanseo

Swanner wrote: »

There is a massive difference between someone travelling 10/20 mph over an often ridiculously low speed limit on a good road and someone climbing into the car and driving after 3/4 pints.

This.

I see NO problem flashing a few people for the new speed vans but I would never flash to warn of a checkpoint. If someone hasn't paid their tax or has no insurance, didn't bother with their NCT, or has had a few pints then it's a totally different kettle of fish to warning people who are likely only keeping up with the flow on a section of road with ludicrous speed limits, ludicrous enforcement practices and ludicrous penalties.

Ireland has a nasty habit of coming up with totally half baked solutions for anything and everything where government/legislation is concerned, and us road users have taken the brunt of this mainly Gay Byrne induced lunacy with these "safety" (total bull****) cameras being the latest in a long line of hair brained schemes. It's beginning to really piss me off.

Anan1

kdevitt wrote: »

Surely the point should be to deter people from speeding, not catch them at it. If someone was about to beat the crap out of someone, or mug them - and you gave them a tap on the shoulder to say that the gardai were around the corner and they're likely to be caught, you'd have prevented a crime and be applauded for it. The fact that you warned them that they were going to be caught, rather than told them what they were doing was wrong / illegal shouldn't really make a difference.

They'll just mug someone else when you've moved on.

-Chris-

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Was blasting up the Newry/Lisburn road to a meeting in Belfast.

Few cars flashed the lights, I eased off the speed and surely enough there are two of the PSNI's finest camped out around the corner, speed gunning motorists.

Seems that such action, a "civic duty" in my opinion, is a long lost memory on southern roads. Have the irish people really been brainwashed into believeing that these traps are for "safety".

In the North lights will be flashed to alert people to cozzers, customs, accidents and dangerous issues on the road ahead.

This has been discussed here a couple of times before, always ending up in the exact same argument, but you've probably got a fair argument comparing the driving cultures of NI versus ROI...

PAULWATSON wrote: »

This mentality of "I'm a good little guy, if dem bad people speed, dey are a danger and diserve to bee fined".

Grow a pair.

Until you get to this bit, at which point I lose all respect for your argument, lose the desire to participate in your thread, and come to the general conclusion that your trolling.

Grow up.

Mr Magners

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Not for that much longer, Toyota ahve the contract to supply the Guards now... Avensis all the way from now on....

Just to make people aware it's not only Avensii(?) that the Gardai are driving, I was passed recently by a late '10 reg unmarked Mondeo (10D30xxx) with blue lights & sirens going.

-Chris-

I was on the M50 yesterday and found myself behind an unmarked 09D maroon Skoda Superb. I was shocked tbh.

But I digress...