Is Limerick Dying?

D1stant

I have nothing but warm things to say about Limerick, but it seems to me as an 'outsider' that the place is dying

I lived here for a year 10 years ago. It was active, lots of young people around 7 days a week, pubs / restuarants always opening / closing etc. I can drive through town 6/7 nights of the week now and its like a ghost town

If it wasn't for Thomond Park it would be worse

Whats going on?

zuroph

D1stant wrote: »

Whats going on?

Recession. town is still manic on tuesday nights, and generally packed on sat nights too. the others have always ebbed and flowed, with nights out being popular and dying off over time. If anything, I'm finding nightlife more interesting now, as the venues are really competing for business, and offering much better value.


daytime on the other hand, the council have fcked up with their rates, and made it too hard to attract investment from businesses.

drunkmonkey

zuroph wrote: »

daytime on the other hand, the council have fcked up with their rates, and made it too hard to attract investment from businesses.

The council/planners have fcked up allowing all the retail parks. They've literally killed the city center for the sake of a cut price tv from harvey norman. Terrible to see a once thriving city decimated but I fear there's no way back.

bazz26

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The council/planners have fcked up allowing all the retail parks. They've literally killed the city center for the sake of a cut price tv from harvey norman. Terrible to see a once thriving city decimated but I fear there's no way back.

The city centre is not appealing to go into anymore imo. Between the silly amount of traffic lights in place, some pointless bus lanes, less on street parking and traffic wardens on every corner waiting to pounce if you are 2 mins over your alotted time, why would you bother? The rare time I go into the city centre these days is if I cannot get what I am looking for elsewhere. It's also a nice excuse to leave the car at home and exercise my legs.

Alot of retailers have moved out to these retail parks because of higher rates in the city centre and the fact that most of their customers have too.

seachto7

I will say there were better places to go in the early to mid 90s, at least for people into good music. You had a choice of places to go and hear good music or watch good bands. Plus there is sweet f**kall choice in town when it comes to buying decent clothes for men. It's a disaster. Even Tony Connollys is gone to the dogs, you could always rely on picking up something half decent downstairs...

Schuh is the only half decent shop for men...

Itsdacraic

seachto7 wrote: »

I will say there were better places to go in the early to mid 90s, at least for people into good music. You had a choice of places to go and hear good music or watch good bands.

Jofspring

Noel's Menswear up on Wickham Street has nice stuff too but is pricey. Pretty much all the menswear shops are expensive and the cheaper ones are all selling the same stuff (Hoodies and T-shirts with big numbers and writing splashed across the front of them).

We need some kind of a decent city shopping centre to get people back into the city centre. Was up in the one in Galway about two weeks ago and it was very busy as was the whole of shop street, absolutely booming it was with loads of things happening up and down the street i.e buskers. It reminded me of Crusies Street from years ago when on a Saturday town was mobbed. To think if HMV pull out of the city centre there will be no music shop left in town. Golden Discs x2 and Empire Music gone.

Off the top of my head there is:

About 9 euro or discount stores in the city centre
1 Music Shop
4 menswear shops
8 or 9 ladies
4 sports stores
3 or 4 newsagents
2 Electronics stores
and one or two more little shops around.

The rest is probably made up of Cafes, Restuarants and Bars. All these things are spreaded way out also.

Kess73

Jofspring wrote: »

Noel's Menswear up on Wickham Street has nice stuff too but is pricey. Pretty much all the menswear shops are expensive and the cheaper ones are all selling the same stuff (Hoodies and T-shirts with big numbers and writing splashed across the front of them).

We need some kind of a decent city shopping centre to get people back into the city centre. Was up in the one in Galway about two weeks ago and it was very busy as was the whole of shop street, absolutely booming it was with loads of things happening up and down the street i.e buskers. It reminded me of Crusies Street from years ago when on a Saturday town was mobbed. To think if HMV pull out of the city centre there will be no music shop left in town. Golden Discs x2 and Empire Music gone.

Off the top of my head there is:

About 9 euro or discount stores in the city centre
1 Music Shop
4 menswear shops
8 or 9 ladies
4 sports stores
3 or 4 newsagents
2 Electronics stores
and one or two more little shops around.

The rest is probably made up of Cafes, Restuarants and Bars. All these things are spreaded way out also.

Has more in common with small towns around Ireland than actual cities. Killarney, Tralee, Ennis, Clonmel, Nenagh etc all could be described as having the same or similar in terms of a list of shops.

D1stant

Not just talking about commercial migration to the suburbs

But I mean look up gig listings for Limerick in April..... Theres probbaly more going on in Ennis / Clonakilty etc....

seachto7

Itsdacraic wrote: »

It's good to have an opinion on this thread from someone over the age of 21...:rolleyes::)

I'm 34 but old enough to remember not getting everything I wanted handed to me, but yeah in the early to mid 90s, things were better in the city centre at least. I suppose the burbs didn't have the retail parks at the time though...There weren't any burbs as such. I was playing underage footie in Aisling Annacotty surrounded by fields.....

RonMexico

It is not a recession in Limerick, it is a depression. This coming summer will be the final nail in the coffin for many of the businesses in the city. I won't mention names but I know of three large stores that are in big trouble.

kilburn

Lets relax a bit here getting far to negative.

Amazotheamazing

No, Limerick city is changing, it's not dying.

Over the past few years we've seen the redevelopment of Thomond park and the Market, both massive improvements on what was there before. We've seen the increased pedestrainisation of the city centre, the redesign of the quays and seen the Art college move to one campus.

Over the next few years we're going to see the redevelopment of King John's Castle, the streetscape improvements on William st and O'Connell st, the redevelopment of the market's field.

Ireland faces massive problems and Limerick is no exception but we can use this time to make necessary changes to the city.

munstergirl

I'm going to say no, its not dying, but if its not fixed soon who knows.

Drop the rents in city, expand boundry so council can have rates from shopping centres which in turn will drop rates in city.

JOBS very important 20,000+ people don't have any money to be spending on pubs, resturants, shopping.

More gardai on street.

Last week city was quite busy in the sunshine would much prefer to be in town than a retail park on a nice day.

Itsdacraic

RonMexico wrote: »

It is not a recession in Limerick, it is a depression. This coming summer will be the final nail in the coffin for many of the businesses in the city. I won't mention names but I know of three large stores that are in big trouble.

You don't need to mention names, there's hardly 3 big stores left!

Poxyshamrock

RonMexico wrote: »

It is not a recession in Limerick, it is a depression. This coming summer will be the final nail in the coffin for many of the businesses in the city. I won't mention names but I know of three large stores that are in big trouble.

Able to PM the names?

Mc Love

munstergirl wrote: »

.

More gardai on street.

You can forget about that one

hatz7

munstergirl wrote: »

I'm going to say no, its not dying, but if its not fixed soon who knows.
Drop the rents in city, expand boundry so council can have rates from shopping centres which in turn will drop rates in city.
JOBS very important 20,000+ people don't have any money to be spending on pubs, resturants, shopping.
More gardai on street.
Last week city was quite busy in the sunshine would much prefer to be in town than a retail park on a nice day.

Ya, I think the city center is dying,
The council will not drop their rates to a realistic level, I say realistic because I heard that they did drop them by .25 of 1 %.
Certainly agree with a jobs incentive for employers or anything that's gets people out working, because when they are working they are spending.
Limerick is the most policed city in the country. there are 600+ maybe getting them out onto the streets walking around more would help though.
I really think that rates is an important issue, but that council won't make the necessary changes, them and their cronies are accustomed to a certain lifestyle.
The town is nice when there are people about, matches on etc, the city needs leadership!

RonMexico

Pedestrianisation is all well and good but what is the point if in the meantime all the stores close down?

Businesses ARE the city. As it stands more are closing than opening.

SarahBeep!

I work in Limerick City centre. Last Saturday I was at work and at more than one stage we were all just standing around looking at each other hoping customers would appear...

We're shifting more units but making less money coz we had to drop our prices. We have some serious bargains and even they can't drag people in the door at the worst parts of the day.

Not saying where I work is in trouble, but it's absolutly soul destroying to not be busy at work when you have good products, good prices and good customer service. There are some days when Cruises St is DEAD. Apart from a few scumbag kids and other people who work in town that is.

liammur

D1stant wrote: »

I have nothing but warm things to say about Limerick, but it seems to me as an 'outsider' that the place is dying

I lived here for a year 10 years ago. It was active, lots of young people around 7 days a week, pubs / restuarants always opening / closing etc. I can drive through town 6/7 nights of the week now and its like a ghost town

If it wasn't for Thomond Park it would be worse

Whats going on?

You are absolutely right. There hasn't been a significant jobs announcement for Limerick in I don't know how many years, despite several closures. Until this changes, the city and region will continue it's sad decline.

blueivu

I hate that I have to agree, it is sad but true, Limerick is dying. I think that Opera centre disaster has a lot to do with it, hopes were pinned on it and other areas were let down, now those bought out buildings are crumbling, but first letting off an awful stench.
We do have a lot of places to eat in the city, but that's about it. There is nothing to entice people into the city centre, not when you can get more than you want in the Crescent undercover during the inclement weathers with free parking. The only shop the Crescent is missing is a big book shop like Easons, and how soon will that be out there too?

The council should really suck it up and build the centre, yes it will cost a lot, but the dividends will be plenty, they are blinded by instant gratifications, those will not benefit any of us in the long run.

sioda

blueivu wrote: »

The council should really suck it up and build the centre, yes it will cost a lot, but the dividends will be plenty, they are blinded by instant gratifications, those will not benefit any of us in the long run.

The council are broke mainly due to their own ineptitude and wouldnt want to be inany building bulit by them anyway

Gneez

It definitely does seem dreary compared to places like Galway and Cork, you go to places like that they seem to be full of life, come back to Limerick and the contrast is apparent.

Crea

The city mightn't be dying but it is seriously ill. 1 or 2 big shops pull out and it will keel over.
1. The rates are killing the businesses in town.

2. Parking is too expensive and not enough on street parking. I live outside the city and have to use the car. I'm not going to spend an extra €10 on parking to browse around town and have lunch when I can go outside of town and get it for free. Also, there aren't enough places in town selling parking discs - you have to go on a long walk from your car to find them and a long walk back.

3. Town looks like a hole. The closed shops for the Opera centre makes Patrick St. look like Beruit. Too many closed shops further up town and all the discount stores make the place look cheap.

4. The Milk Market on Saturday is supposed to be open till 4pm. We went through there at 2pm last week and it was pretty much closed. Done and dusted by 3pm. The rest of the town was really quiet.

Kess73

Gneez wrote: »

It definitely does seem dreary compared to places like Galway and Cork, you go to places like that they seem to be full of life, come back to Limerick and the contrast is apparent.

Galway city centre was packed yesterday compared to Limerick city centre. Lots of people heading in and out of shops, and plenty of decent street entertainers, and a very noticeable lack of scum in any numbers. Plus the most noticeable thing of all...Gardai on foot patrols.


Lots of colour, noise, and money getting spent up there yesterday.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

Galway city centre was packed yesterday compared to Limerick city centre. Lots of people heading in and out of shops, and plenty of decent street entertainers, and a very noticeable lack of scum in any numbers. Plus the most noticeable thing of all...Gardai on foot patrols.


Lots of colour, noise, and money getting spent up there yesterday.

Galway is only about two streets though, far easier to maintain a small city centre than what Limerick has. Galway also doesn't have the out of town centres like the Crescent and it has a university fairly much in it's city centre. You aren't comparing like with like. You also are over-estimating how much is actually being spent, if the amount of closures in Galway's city centre is anything to go by. I'm up there most weeks and bit by bit Shop street is changing from a really cool street to high street uk.

There's loads of work to do in Limerick alright but we have to work with what we have, not spend our time wishing we had something else. Imo, we should identify three or four areas that need to be redeveloped once William st/O'Connell st are redeveloped and get working on those areas now. Maybe 1) Nicholas st (plans already in motion 2) Market quarter (businesses already working together 3) Arthur's Quay park (surrounded by empty lots) 4) Canal walk (completely unfinished and underutilised)

Monty Burnz

liammur wrote: »

You are absolutely right. There hasn't been a significant jobs announcement for Limerick in I don't know how many years, despite several closures. Until this changes, the city and region will continue it's sad decline.

This probably part of the problem - not enough enterprise culture in Ireland generally. You have thousands of people all sitting around waiting for someone else to start a business. It's easier said than done, of course, but that's why capitalism allows those who take the risk get rich if they get it right.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Galway is only about two streets though, far easier to maintain a small city centre than what Limerick has. Galway also doesn't have the out of town centres like the Crescent and it has a university fairly much in it's city centre. You aren't comparing like with like. You also are over-estimating how much is actually being spent, if the amount of closures in Galway's city centre is anything to go by. I'm up there most weeks and bit by bit Shop street is changing from a really cool street to high street uk.

There's loads of work to do in Limerick alright but we have to work with what we have, not spend our time wishing we had something else. Imo, we should identify three or four areas that need to be redeveloped once William st/O'Connell st are redeveloped and get working on those areas now. Maybe 1) Nicholas st (plans already in motion 2) Market quarter (businesses already working together 3) Arthur's Quay park (surrounded by empty lots) 4) Canal walk (completely unfinished and underutilised)

It still boils down to the planners/local authorites etc in Galway making the most of what they have though.

When local events are on, there are plenty of posters and advertising for them, and organisers seem to be more interest6ed in making events as good as they can be, rather than being interested in getting their face into a paper.


And as for a place becoming a "High street UK", well Limerick sure as hell could do with more of that, as I for one would sooner see lots of open stores in Limerick regardless of origin, than looking at lots of closed units that were once small local stores but that are no more.

If it meant jobs for Limerick, and more people going to the city centre, then bring it on. The knock on effect from having more people in would be the cafes etc getting more business and maybe things like a city centre cinema and other such amenities popping up again.

Silentcorner

What does Galway have that we don't have....tourists, on any given day there could be between 2,000 - 10,000 visitors to Galway, that is a lot of bodies in the shops on the streets etc, we aren't doing as bad as people are making us out to be either, we actually get a lot more tourists than many people think but we are waaaaaay behind Galway, and to be fair it is a very well presented coastal town, and have a lovely vibe about it as a result, we need to play to our strenghts, our river isn't utilised half as much as it should be ( just look at Athlone ) the city centre has the look of a town in the grips of a severe reccession ( as does a lot of towns in Ireland today ) but the foundations are strong, anyone who can remember Limerick pre early nineties will agree we have come a long long way...we do use our love of sports to good effect it has to be said....

Of course....we could do without the constant negative press we seem to get....but don't get me started on that one.....

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

It still boils down to the planners/local authorites etc in Galway making the most of what they have though.

No doubt, but Galway doesn't have a nonsense boundary like Limerick city has.

Most of the problems of Limerick city centre are in some way related to the boundary.

1) too much social housing within the city
2) Out of town shopping centres (money goes to county)
3) No traffic co-ordination
4) lack of funds to invest in city centre (due to point 2).

etc

People want a nice city centre but they don't want to either pay for it themselves via household rates or empower Limerick city council pay for it by way of a boundary extension.

As a result of this Limerick city has to have high commercial rates. Which people then complain is shutting down the city centre, which makes it harder to do business in Limerick, which makes it harder to improve the city centre etc.

If you want to see Limerick improve, the first step has to be a boundary extension, or combine the two councils.

Monty Burnz

Silentcorner wrote: »

What does Galway have that we don't have....tourists, on any given day there could be between 2,000 - 10,000 visitors to Galway, that is a lot of bodies in the shops on the streets etc, we aren't doing as bad as people are making us out to be either, we actually get a lot more tourists than many people think but we are waaaaaay behind Galway, and to be fair it is a very well presented coastal town, and have a lovely vibe about it as a result, we need to play to our strenghts, our river isn't utilised half as much as it should be ( just look at Athlone ) the city centre has the look of a town in the grips of a severe reccession ( as does a lot of towns in Ireland today ) but the foundations are strong, anyone who can remember Limerick pre early nineties will agree we have come a long long way...we do use our love of sports to good effect it has to be said....

Of course....we could do without the constant negative press we seem to get....but don't get me started on that one.....

Without wanting to be offensive, I don't think tourists are going to come to Limerick, and I doubt many of those who do will recommend it to their friends. It's a pretty depressing place, and I found it so even during the bubble. It's not an attractive town and there are plenty of rough people around that give it a ghetto edge. Perhaps one of the problems is that, as you observe, the river isn't really a feature of the town? It borders it, rather than being part of it. But then it's far too wide to have the town on both banks as in other cities.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

No doubt, but Galway doesn't have a nonsense boundary like Limerick city has.

Most of the problems of Limerick city centre are in some way related to the boundary.

1) too much social housing within the city
2) Out of town shopping centres (money goes to county)
3) No traffic co-ordination
4) lack of funds to invest in city centre (due to point 2).

etc

People want a nice city centre but they don't want to either pay for it themselves via household rates or empower Limerick city council pay for it by way of a boundary extension.

As a result of this Limerick city has to have high commercial rates. Which people then complain is shutting down the city centre, which makes it harder to do business in Limerick, which makes it harder to improve the city centre etc.

If you want to see Limerick improve, the first step has to be a boundary extension, or combine the two councils.

Your points are valid, but who was behind letting social housing levels in Limerick become the highest in the entire country? Surely the penny should have dropped when the % of housing in the city that was social housing hit 20%, or 25%, or 35%, or even 40%, let alone what it is today. I have no doubt that it will still be ignored and will break the 50% mark that it is already close to in a number of years.


Out of town shopping centres do take money from the city, but what was to stop the city council combating this by dropping rates and putting incentives in places for retailers to come and set up in the city centre in the 38 years since the Crescent Shopping centre opened? Since the 1990's the rates in the city centre have grown at an alarming rate, and since the downturn in the economy we have seen Limerick city council drop their rates by only 0.25 or 1% whilst their counterparts in Cork and Galway dropped their charges by far far more. Greed is what won out with the short term gain of higher rates being the goal rather than a sustainable long term plan that took into account competition from the county and elsewhere. So a lot of the reason behind their lack of funds is down to their shortsighted tactics in the past, and those very same tactics are in play today.


As for traffic co-ordination, I am not sure if you are talking about the city and county councils working together with regards to road changes, bus lanes and the like, or just the way the city council have done things within their own boundary.

It is all well and good saying that ordinary folk are somewhat to blame for it, but what exactly has Limerick city council done that would suggest that if they had a larger income that they would use the money to make genuine and lasting improvement?


There seems to be an attitude within some quarters that having a city with 50% of units occupied and paying 100% of rates/charges etc., is better than a city paying 80% of rates/charges but with 80% of units in use.

More full units would mean more jobs, meaning more people spending money in the city be it workers from the full units or customers going to those units.

More people in the city means more demand and custom for cinemas/pubs/music venues/comedy clubs/services etc.

My take there may be a simplified view on the issue as a whole, but it is not without a large slice of truth.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

Your points are valid, but who was behind letting social housing levels in Limerick become the highest in the entire country? Surely the penny should have dropped when the % of housing in the city that was social housing hit 20%, or 25%, or 35%, or even 40%, let alone what it is today. I have no doubt that it will still be ignored and will break the 50% mark that it is already close to in a number of years.


Out of town shopping centres do take money from the city, but what was to stop the city council combating this by dropping rates and putting incentives in places for retailers to come and set up in the city centre in the 38 years since the Crescent Shopping centre opened? Since the 1990's the rates in the city centre have grown at an alarming rate, and since the downturn in the economy we have seen Limerick city council drop their rates by only 0.25 or 1% whilst their counterparts in Cork and Galway dropped their charges by far far more. Greed is what won out with the short term gain of higher rates being the goal rather than a sustainable long term plan that took into account competition from the county and elsewhere. So a lot of the reason behind their lack of funds is down to their shortsighted tactics in the past, and those very same tactics are in play today.


As for traffic co-ordination, I am not sure if you are talking about the city and county councils working together with regards to road changes, bus lanes and the like, or just the way the city council have done things within their own boundary.

It is all well and good saying that ordinary folk are somewhat to blame for it, but what exactly has Limerick city council done that would suggest that if they had a larger income that they would use the money to make genuine and lasting improvement?


There seems to be an attitude within some quarters that having a city with 50% of units occupied and paying 100% of rates/charges etc., is better than a city paying 80% of rates/charges but with 80% of units in use.

More full units would mean more jobs, meaning more people spending money in the city be it workers from the full units or customers going to those units.

More people in the city means more demand and custom for cinemas/pubs/music venues/comedy clubs/services etc.

My take there may be a simplified view on the issue as a whole, but it is not without a large slice of truth.

I assume you aren't joking but if you can't see the bind the city council is in due to the boundary wrt to rates then I don't know if it can be explained to you. God forgive me but I'll try again. Limerick city council can't drop rates because city councils get little funding from central government. The council's main source of income is rates. These rates are drawn from the commercial base. The county by comparison gets rates from both commercial and industrial concerns. Limerick city is trying to fund redevelopment on a shoe-string, if it dropped rates it couldn't afford the redevelopment of William st etc. If the council doesn't redeveloped the streets the city looks even worse, which makes it even harder to attract business. It's a vicious circle and the banshees crying about rates should focus their energies on crying about the boundary.

We all agree the city needs to be redeveloped but how do people propose it should be funded?

The social housing is interesting, not all council estates went bad and for most people the council estates were a success story. Half of Caherdavin and Raheen is owned by people who grew up in council estates and moved out and bought their own houses.

It's also easy to look back and say it was a mistake do suchandsuch with the estates but at the time Ireland, not just Limerick was undergoing massive social changes. The council estates of Dublin, Cork and Limerick are the remnants of the old inner city slums. Most people who's great grand parents lived in the slums now have comfortable middle class lives.

We're left with a different issue now, and imo, it's a recent enough issue, how do you deal with people who have no interest in social mobility? Who view the State as a provider and little else? It'd be fraudulent to have expected planners in the 1950's to have predicted this, imo.

It's also telling that, afaik, the population of the council estates is declining. The socially mobile people are still getting up and getting out. This is across the State, not just in Limerick, though it remains to be seen what affect the recession will have.

It's worth examining, imo, is why social mobility is still so hard for members of the Travelling Community to achieve. Is it racism within the settled community or different emphasises in their own community?

bigpink

Travellers get plenty of chances,they want to be different and treated equal,make up your mind!!

They get free houses,sites,stables etc

Amazotheamazing

bigpink wrote: »

Travellers get plenty of chances,they want to be different and treated equal,make up your mind!!

They get free houses,sites,stables etc

you can be different and be treated equally, you know.

Indeed, I'd hate it if this entire world was made of people the same as you or me.

bigpink

So could i claim traveller status to get a stable?

Amazotheamazing

bigpink wrote: »

So could i claim traveller status to get a stable?

Think you'd have to show you are a Traveller in some way or other but if you want to, why not investigate and report back to us?

I've seen halting sites, i wouldn't be in a mad rush to live in one but maybe they have a certain romantic charm for you.

bigpink

Exactly they get free sites and ever see the state they leave the areas around it

Look the halting site on the Dock road they have illegally claimed more land than they were given and also dump rubbish over the walls

Amazotheamazing

bigpink wrote: »

Exactly they get free sites and ever see the state they leave the areas around it

Look the halting site on the Dock road they have illegally claimed more land than they were given and also dump rubbish over the walls

Some Travellers do and some don't. Don't make them out to be all one and the same.

Some settled people beat their and abuse their kids, some settled people give their time charity and help others, some settled people are tossers and some aren't.

There's no need to pretend everyone of any given community is the same.

bigpink

I agree with you but the Traveller excuse comes up alot,why dont they just follow the laws as we all do,send their kids to school instead of demanding special schools etc,christ some travellers get free taxis paid to bring them to school

I deffo dont pretend their the same

Amazotheamazing

bigpink wrote: »

I agree with you but the Traveller excuse comes up alot,why dont they just follow the laws as we all do,send their kids to school instead of demanding special schools etc,christ some travellers get free taxis paid to bring them to school

I deffo dont pretend their the same

Are you really asking why the Travellers who break the law actually break the law? Why do you never bother asking why the settled people who break the law actually break the law?

bigpink

I ask all the time but as i said Travellers seem to use "Culture" as an excuse alot,ever hear Martin Collins of Pavee Point trying to defend wrongs


Lets get this back on topic!!

kilburn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydBf1kmxRI

zing zong

the thing is, the reason people went to the retail parks to begin with is simple, loads and loads of free parking, its not that there are better shops (dunnes, boots, lifestyle etc all in town too) its simply parking.

in limerick, there isn't any, you have the overpriced multistories or over priced parking discs that you cant find any of the shops selling! christ, if you go to Ennis or Nenagh you can't move for parking ticket machines EVERYWHERE for 50c an hour!

seen the roadworks on upper william street lately? yep, they made the foothpaths wider so no more parking!

the obession with making the city centre more pedestrianised with zero consideration for parking is insane and killing the city centre.

whoever it is that gives the go ahead for all this needs a hard slap

zing zong

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I assume you aren't joking but if you can't see the bind the city council is in due to the boundary wrt to rates then I don't know if it can be explained to you. God forgive me but I'll try again. Limerick city council can't drop rates because city councils get little funding from central government. The council's main source of income is rates. These rates are drawn from the commercial base. The county by comparison gets rates from both commercial and industrial concerns. Limerick city is trying to fund redevelopment on a shoe-string, if it dropped rates it couldn't afford the redevelopment of William st etc. If the council doesn't redeveloped the streets the city looks even worse, which makes it even harder to attract business. It's a vicious circle and the banshees crying about rates should focus their energies on crying about the boundary.

We all agree the city needs to be redeveloped but how do people propose it should be funded?

The social housing is interesting, not all council estates went bad and for most people the council estates were a success story. Half of Caherdavin and Raheen is owned by people who grew up in council estates and moved out and bought their own houses.

It's also easy to look back and say it was a mistake do suchandsuch with the estates but at the time Ireland, not just Limerick was undergoing massive social changes. The council estates of Dublin, Cork and Limerick are the remnants of the old inner city slums. Most people who's great grand parents lived in the slums now have comfortable middle class lives.

We're left with a different issue now, and imo, it's a recent enough issue, how do you deal with people who have no interest in social mobility? Who view the State as a provider and little else? It'd be fraudulent to have expected planners in the 1950's to have predicted this, imo.

It's also telling that, afaik, the population of the council estates is declining. The socially mobile people are still getting up and getting out. This is across the State, not just in Limerick, though it remains to be seen what affect the recession will have.

It's worth examining, imo, is why social mobility is still so hard for members of the Travelling Community to achieve. Is it racism within the settled community or different emphasises in their own community?

maybe its time that there was a direct council tax on homes instead of the reliance on fast disappearing rates from fast disappearing business, i know it would be an unpopular idea, but what other choice is there?

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I assume you aren't joking but if you can't see the bind the city council is in due to the boundary wrt to rates then I don't know if it can be explained to you. God forgive me but I'll try again. Limerick city council can't drop rates because city councils get little funding from central government. The council's main source of income is rates. These rates are drawn from the commercial base. The county by comparison gets rates from both commercial and industrial concerns. Limerick city is trying to fund redevelopment on a shoe-string, if it dropped rates it couldn't afford the redevelopment of William st etc. If the council doesn't redeveloped the streets the city looks even worse, which makes it even harder to attract business. It's a vicious circle and the banshees crying about rates should focus their energies on crying about the boundary. We all agree the city needs to be redeveloped but how do people propose it should be funded?

The social housing is interesting, not all council estates went bad and for most people the council estates were a success story. Half of Caherdavin and Raheen is owned by people who grew up in council estates and moved out and bought their own houses.

It's also easy to look back and say it was a mistake do suchandsuch with the estates but at the time Ireland, not just Limerick was undergoing massive social changes. The council estates of Dublin, Cork and Limerick are the remnants of the old inner city slums. Most people who's great grand parents lived in the slums now have comfortable middle class lives.

We're left with a different issue now, and imo, it's a recent enough issue, how do you deal with people who have no interest in social mobility? Who view the State as a provider and little else? It'd be fraudulent to have expected planners in the 1950's to have predicted this, imo.

It's also telling that, afaik, the population of the council estates is declining. The socially mobile people are still getting up and getting out. This is across the State, not just in Limerick, though it remains to be seen what affect the recession will have.

It's worth examining, imo, is why social mobility is still so hard for members of the Travelling Community to achieve. Is it racism within the settled community or different emphasises in their own community?

Your patronising tone in saying you will explain it to me aside, I do see the bind they are in financially, but I also see that it is self inflicted by a short sighted approach, and that it is inflicted by having decision makers with very little knowledge and experience in both business and financial matters.

They have left things get to this stage despite having economists advising against many of their moves over the last two decades, and the same idiot decisions will be made year after year with their excuse of the boundary getting trotted out over and over.

Sure extending the boundary will increase the income they get in, no arguement there from me. But the extra income raised will have to go towards the areas that are in the extended areas as well as to the current areas, so it will not be some massive windfall for the current inner city. And if the current city authorities, who are well proven in not having a clue, get their claws into places like the Crescent Shopping centre in terms of having a say in rates etc., then I have no doubt that the marvellous job that they have done in the city centre in helping top empty so many units will carry on in the Crescent or any shopping centre that falls under their umbrella.


So yeah I do see the bind they are in. I do see that they are cash strapped, but I also see how bad they have been at their jobs and how they have inflicted a huge amount of damage to the city centre as a result of their short sighted approach.

Can you honestly say that you would have full confidence in Limerick City Council in terms of the improvements the city needs in attracting new businesses, new services, infrastructure, policing etc if they had a larger income? That you have no doubts that it is simply a matter of finances that has Limerick city centre as it is?

I was a regional manager for a large UK firm a few years back, and was heavily involved in the company setting up a number of new stores in the West and South of Ireland. The one place where we met people who had no idea in what they were doing was in Limerick city. Promises were made over and over about a unit, promises were made about rates, then lead times were missed again and again whilst their counterparts in Cork and Galway were professional, had knowledge of what a company needs, understood the concept of contact. The upshot was that the Cork and Galway stores went ahead, as well as other stores in Munster, but Limerick city was shelved as a project. Both sites in Limerick that were looked at are still vacant with noi signs of anything being done, and this all happened before the downturn took hold.

I know that many of the same people are still in the same roles in Limerck, and that they are still the points of contact for any interested parties who may have ideas of setting up in Limerick. For as long as they are you can expect a similar scenario to play out with other large companies.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

Your patronising tone in saying you will explain it to me aside, I do see the bind they are in financially, but I also see that it is self inflicted by a short sighted approach, and that it is inflicted by having decision makers with very little knowledge and experience in both business and financial matters.

They have left things get to this stage despite having economists advising against many of their moves over the last two decades, and the same idiot decisions will be made year after year with their excuse of the boundary getting trotted out over and over.

I don't see how it's self-inflicted, tbh. The FF Government of the late 1970's abolished home owners rates without ever replacing it. That was a massive blow, the county council gave permission to large out of town shopping centres, that's another massive blow.

Those two things alone did more damage to the city centre than anything the council actually did in the last 30 odd years.

I'm fairly certain there's bad employees in the city council, indeed, I think their HR department must be one of the worse in Ireland, but that doesn't change the fact that they are working under imposed constraints.

If not through commercial rates, how do you propose the redevelopment of Limerick is funded?

belinda502

I got done last week for parking in Ellen Street around 11am. €40.00 parking fine and there was practically no cars in the street. There seems to be certain parts of Limerick where wardens are active and other parts around the top of the Crescent/Barrington Street where they never go. I agree with the other poster. The City Council should install on street parking machines and charge 50c a hour. €2.00 per hour would be allright if there was decent off street free parking but all the car parks are charging huge rates except for the one off the Limerick Market which charges €3.00 per day only on a Saturday. The parking situation combined with free parking in the retail centres outside the city is not encouraging people to go into the city.

Bicycle

I know this is a VERY old thread but just to reassure Belinda and others that the Barrington Street/Crescent/Newenham Street area is a hotbed for traffic wardens.

The only traffic fine I ever got was in Crescent Avenue. And when I was passing there the other day, there was a traffic warden hard at work issuing tickets. They are also fans of Upper Henry Street.

Why go to the expense of installing parking meters when Park Magic works very well? You don't need to stand in the rain or have the right change or be faced with a broken meter. You can just phone in and top up your account with a credit or laser card.

phog

belinda502 wrote: »

............. The City Council should install on street parking machines and .............

No, any on street machine that takes coins is far more expensive to run and maintain.

There's nothing wrong with the concept of the parking discs.