The way we live ......

Wild_Dogger

I think the major problem is how to produce food for a very unnatural population level .

Farming began with the poulation explosion , about 10.000 years ago .
Right now , for everybody who dies , two are born .
The population of the human race is expected to double in just over 30 years .

there will be twice the demand for food , energy and all the side effects are consequential .

just looking deeper into the reason of battery/mass production of food sourcing .

Very few people are aware of the problem , http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population+statistics


Its a completely unnatural society we live in , both unsustainable and destined for disaster .

Squeezing animals out of their natural habitat and abusing their rights to exist is part of the unfair dominating society that we created .

How to solve the problem ???? .... food for thought

Serendipity99

First you have to create awareness of the problem. For my part, I write to newspapers, politicians, TV and radio stations, and I sign petitions. I'm also planning to hand out leaflets to people on the street and at my local university campus.

People need to be encouraged to move to a plant-based diet which will benefit the planet, their health and animals.

Here's an interesting link: http://www.worldometers.info/

Wild_Dogger

Thank You ..... wow !

Well the numbers are staggering , but how the heck do you address the problem .

The Chinese recognzed the need to control their population and were branded as evil communists !!!
When in reality , they recognized a problem and attempted to make an effort towards stability .

would there be anybody here willing to limit themselves to just one or maximum 2 children ??? ( strictly for the purpose of global stability ) .............. anybody ?

Serendipity99

I'd say a lot of people would be willing to restrict their family size. Not sure what the average family size in Ireland is, maybe 2 children?

This documentary was on last week - it was very good: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-many-people-can-live-on-planet-earth/
Its called 'How many people can live on planet earth'.

Elexis

The fact is that indigenous birth rates in Europe are declining drastically. Same in Japan and it would be the same in America were it not for all the Latino immigrants coming from the south. Western civilisation is on the decline guys. The global fertility leaders are Islamic countries so might you consider recommending the Muslims in the Islam forum to have less children?

Serendipity99

Just thought I'd mention 2 charities that help the developing world without exploiting animals:
Vegfam: http://www.vegfamcharity.org.uk/
Plentyfood: http://www.plentyfood.nl/index.php

Wild_Dogger

Elexis wrote: »

Western civilisation is on the decline guys.

Very much the oppisite ..... we are very much still in growth .

pick a country ....... any

Elexis

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Very much the oppisite ..... we are very much still in growth .

pick a country ....... any

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4768644.stm
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

Unless people in the west start having far more children, indigenous Europeans will no longer be a majority in one or two generations from now, having been replaced by an immigrant, largely Muslim population.

Neuro

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

I think the major problem is how to produce food for a very unnatural population level .

I know I'm going to sound pedantic, but here goes...

What exactly is an 'unnatural' population level?

"Farming began with the population explosion" - I think you've got cause and effect reversed here; it was that uptake of farming that permitted increased population growth.

"The population is expected to double in 30 years". Given that the present population is circa 6.6 billion, and is expected to plateau at 10 billion in 2050, before starting to fall again, the population is expected to increase by 50%, not the 100% you claim.

"There will be twice the demand for food, energy...". It follows from above that there'll be a 50% increase in the demand for food, not a doubling of demand. Even then, it does not follow that this will lead to a 50% increase in the demand for resources, such as energy, required to produce this food - economic productivity generally increases over time.

So what's the point of this nitpicking? It's simply this, if you want to convince people to change their ways, then there's nothing wrong with the art of rhetoric, as long as you're accurate with your facts - simple mistakes undermine valid arguments!

Neuro

Elexis wrote: »

Unless people in the west start having far more children, indigenous Europeans will no longer be a majority in one or two generations from now, having been replaced by an immigrant, largely Muslim population.

You've really got to stop reading the Daily Mail!

Elexis

Neuro wrote: »

You've really got to stop reading the Daily Mail!

If you can show me how I'm wrong, I'll retract my statement. I won't hesitate to have a frank conversation though no matter what disparaging terms might be written against me!

Neuro

Elexis wrote: »

If you can show me how I'm wrong, I'll retract my statement.

The current population of the EU27 is 501 million, 13 million of whom are Muslim (2.59% of the total). You state that in one or two generations (20 to 40 years) the majority of people in Europe will be Muslim. This means that one, or a combination of the following, would have to happen:

- a massive fall (at least 450 million) in the non-Muslim population of Europe.
- a massive increase (at least 2000%) in the Muslin population.
- an unchecked influx of 250 million people into the EU27, all of whom would have to be Muslim.

The chances of any of the above happening are virtually zero.

Wikipedia, for all its flaws, beats the Daily Mail any day of the week.

Jesus Wept

Wild_Dogger wrote: »

Thank You ..... wow !

Well the numbers are staggering , but how the heck do you address the problem .

The Chinese recognzed the need to control their population and were branded as evil communists !!!
When in reality , they recognized a problem and attempted to make an effort towards stability .

would there be anybody here willing to limit themselves to just one or maximum 2 children ??? ( strictly for the purpose of global stability ) .............. anybody ?

I don't think the average amount of children people have in Ireland now is much above 2 anyway, it's the poorer countries that are far more in need of control.

Not convinced that there will be a steady rise to double the population, there could be massive famines and/or disease epidemics and so forth which will stop that happening.

Neuro

The-Rigger wrote: »

I don't think the average amount of children people have in Ireland now is much above 2 anyway

The fertility rate of women is barely above two in many countries of the world, not just Ireland. In fact, most countries of the world have a fertility rate of three or less.

2009 Fertility rates:
Ireland 1.95
Brazil 1.83
Cuba 1.55
Russia 1.39
Hungary 1.37
Ukraine 1.36
Romania 1.33
China 1.33

The-Rigger wrote: »

...it's the poorer countries that are far more in need of control.

Control! What do you propose, that we withhold basic healthcare from developing nations?

Go here, and click play. You'll note that since 1960, the fertility rate in every country of the world has collapsed, while life expectancy has increased.

As the demographer Nicholas Eberstadt noted, the reason that the population has increased so rapidly in the last number of decades is "..not because people started breeding like rabbits. It's that they stopped dying like flies."

Jesus Wept

Neuro wrote: »

Control! What do you propose, that we withhold basic healthcare from developing nations?

I didn't propose anything.