Citizens input into Government

20Cent

I'm a big believer that democracy is not just about elections every few years but also that citizens need to have a lot more input into how things work. Protests, petitions, lobbying etc

This group launched today seems like a very interesting idea to me.

http://wethecitizens.ie/

We the Citizens’ is an independent national initiative with a clear and simple idea. We want to show how our Republic could benefit by citizens coming together in new ways of public decision-making.

We believe this could help to renew trust in politics at this time of social and economic crisis in Ireland. We want to speak up for Ireland.


More of this I say!!


What ye think?

Denerick

Call me cynical, but this would never be a mass input but rather a tiny minority who are especially motivated. For example if you wanted a national referendum and needed a minimum of 40,000 petitioners to get one, then you would have a referendum on abortion every year. All of the petty tyrannies in the heart of ever person would quickly emerge; the death penalty, civil partnerships, everything really that arouses peoples bigotries would be put to referendum and enacted into law.

I'm quite happy living in a democratic Republic that recognises the difference between citizens and representatives. We don't make decisions, we elect the people who make decisions. A good citizen may partake in civil society but must do so within the restrictions of a constitution and a governing framework. The power of the State is limited by an active citizenry, which is laudable, but the power of the citizen too must be constrained otherwhise we would only live in a majoritarian State where the temporary impulses of the masses would become law.

In short, tiny unrepresentative minorites would dominate 'citizen iniatives'. People who are exceptionally politically motivated would take charge and lead direction.

20Cent

Denerick wrote: »

Call me cynical, but this would never be a mass input but rather a tiny minority who are especially motivated. For example if you wanted a national referendum and needed a minimum of 40,000 petitioners to get one, then you would have a referendum on abortion every year. All of the petty tyrannies in the heart of ever person would quickly emerge; the death penalty, civil partnerships, everything really that arouses peoples bigotries would be put to referendum and enacted into law.

I'm quite happy living in a democratic Republic that recognises the difference between citizens and representatives. We don't make decisions, we elect the people who make decisions. A good citizen may partake in civil society but must do so within the restrictions of a constitution and a governing framework. The power of the State is limited by an active citizenry, which is laudable, but the power of the citizen too must be constrained otherwhise we would only live in a majoritarian State where the temporary impulses of the masses would become law.

In short, tiny unrepresentative minorites would dominate 'citizen iniatives'. People who are exceptionally politically motivated would take charge and lead direction.

You are cynical!
A referendum on 40,000 petitioners would be crazy but 200 or 250,000 would be reasonable. If "we" are being told we need to pay for this mess then "we" should have some say. There are changes required which politicians will not want to pass like a large reduction in the number of TD's or more transparency. FG have already u turned on pre-election promises there needs to be a mechanism to allow citizens more input.

billy the squid

More astroturf than grassroots. . The board on WTC are all acemic elites . no working class people or Travellers asked to be on it.

When setting up their meetings they left out the one part of the country that would have benefited most frompolitical reform.

Chuck Feeney would have been better off giving his 630,000 to help the homeless or disabled than this bunch of wealthy people.

20Cent

billy the squid wrote: »

More astroturf than grassroots. . The board on WTC are all acemic elites . no working class people or Travellers asked to be on it.

When setting up their meetings they left out the one part of the country that would have benefited most frompolitical reform.

Chuck Feeney would have been better off giving his 630,000 to help the homeless or disabled than this bunch of wealthy people.

Agree about the makeup of the board but there are a whole load of small movements floundering at the moment trying to lobby for reform but can't get beyond a certain stage. To make something for real change requires big bucks. Doubt Chuck Feeney would give money to an organisation that didn't have some heavy hitters on it people used to applying for grants or organising events etc. Only problem with this type of thing is they turn into talking shops would like to see how they intend to implement or agitate for changes.

the groutch

20Cent wrote: »

I'm a big believer that democracy is not just about elections every few years but also that citizens need to have a lot more input into how things work. Protests, petitions, lobbying etc

This group launched today seems like a very interesting idea to me.

http://wethecitizens.ie/

We the Citizens’ is an independent national initiative with a clear and simple idea. We want to show how our Republic could benefit by citizens coming together in new ways of public decision-making.

We believe this could help to renew trust in politics at this time of social and economic crisis in Ireland. We want to speak up for Ireland.


More of this I say!!


What ye think?

sorry, but that site aint worth diddly, it's just another internet forum and will make no difference to anything.

if however FG were to set up something similar on their own site, and actually put some of the ideas into action over the coming months, then I MIGHT take notice

20Cent

the groutch wrote: »

sorry, but that site aint worth diddly, it's just another internet forum and will make no difference to anything.

if however FG were to set up something similar on their own site, and actually put some of the ideas into action over the coming months, then I MIGHT take notice

Its more than just a site they are organising meetings and a citizens assembly. How they can move ideas generated into action is the problem.

Agonist

This is the topic of tonight's Primetime.

ei.sdraob

@20cent I think having greater input from citizens is a great idea, and with modern technologies a country can move towards a more "direct democracy" model
but for people to make right decisions they have to be better informed via more transparent government (parallel thread about lack of official data on sales prices for houses for example) and a media that is not afraid to speak out, until these issues can be solved...

Agonist wrote: »

This is the topic of tonight's Primetime.

Thanks will watch now, DVRs are sure handy

goose2005

billy the squid wrote: »

More astroturf than grassroots. . The board on WTC are all acemic elites . no working class people or Travellers asked to be on it.

When setting up their meetings they left out the one part of the country that would have benefited most frompolitical reform.

Actually there's a Rwandan immigrant on the board, and several of them are from business or volunteer groups, not academia. And how do you know that none of them are are from working class - or indeed Traveller -backgrounds?

Belfast

I do not think that "a renew trust in politics" is a good idea.
We have trusted politics for far too long.
The main aim of the site seems to be renew trust in politics not to improve the economy, promote better laws or look for a solution for our current problems.

Looks like a focus group like the one Fine Gael had before the last election.

Government by Marketing and focus groups.

I trust marketing even less than politics.