SST routes

squonk

I was wondering lately as I was watching some BA aircraft heading to the states from Heathrow passing over North Clare/South Galway whether the Concorde's flight path was different to that of subsonic aircraft?

I'll be kicking myself if they're the same and I missed chances to see the Concorde in flight all those times, but I'm sure I'd have spotted her but never did.

I'd appreciate any info as I'm curious about this anyway. I did try some googling on the subject but couldn't get anything up that I felt readily answered my question!

drdeadlift

I watched a documentary on it Concorde,the pilot said for the best part the concorde followed the nats pretty much the same but a good bit higher.The routing out of Heathrow was a little different with noise and speed restrictions.Once out over bristol the put the throttle down.

Jim236

The Concorde routings were different in that they were fixed routings whereas NATs change every day and are dependent on the weather but generally route aircraft over Ireland. Whereas Concordes needed to fly over sea in order to fly supersonic. I'll try find a link but the BA Concordes usually flew over Wales and once they got over the South Irish Sea would then go supersonic and fly South of Ireland and remain over sea right up until approach into New York.

highlydebased

(FPL-BAW2-IS
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
-KJFK1100
-N0560F290 DCT C/SHIPP/M200F430 A523 C/LINND/M200F480PLUS 3SN 3952N06815W 4025N06700W 4307N06000W 4510N05230W 4554N05000W 4810N04000W 4926N03000W 4949N02000W 4941N01500W SL3 BARIX/N0550F370 SL3 PITEM UP2 NIGIT OCK2F
-EGLL0317 EGKK
-REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ EET/67W0030 60W0049 5230W0106 50W0112 40W0134 30W0155 20W0215 15W0225 08W0239 TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031024 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/KJFKBAWO)


(FPL-BAW1-IS
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
-EGLL1730
-N0563F280 CPT L9 MALBY DCT C/UPGAS/N0740F280F430 SL2 MERLY SL2 LESLU SL2 C/5041N01500W/M200F450PLUS NATSM 4700N05000W 4246N06500W 42N067W SM2A KENDA/M100F490 DCT LINND DCT OWENZ DCT CAMRN DCT
-KJFK0328 KEWR
-EET/EGGX0046 20W0058 30W0118 40W0139 50W0202 53W0209 60W0226 65W0239 67W0245 KENDA0258 LINND0303 OWENZ0310 CAMRN0318 REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ RMK/TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031023 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/EGLLBAWD)

You can see on those where they accelerated and decelerated on both legs. NAT SM is the supersonic track they used.

squonk

Neon-Circles wrote: »

(FPL-BAW2-IS
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
-KJFK1100
-N0560F290 DCT C/SHIPP/M200F430 A523 C/LINND/M200F480PLUS 3SN 3952N06815W 4025N06700W 4307N06000W 4510N05230W 4554N05000W 4810N04000W 4926N03000W 4949N02000W 4941N01500W SL3 BARIX/N0550F370 SL3 PITEM UP2 NIGIT OCK2F
-EGLL0317 EGKK
-REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ EET/67W0030 60W0049 5230W0106 50W0112 40W0134 30W0155 20W0215 15W0225 08W0239 TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031024 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/KJFKBAWO)


(FPL-BAW1-IS
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
-EGLL1730
-N0563F280 CPT L9 MALBY DCT C/UPGAS/N0740F280F430 SL2 MERLY SL2 LESLU SL2 C/5041N01500W/M200F450PLUS NATSM 4700N05000W 4246N06500W 42N067W SM2A KENDA/M100F490 DCT LINND DCT OWENZ DCT CAMRN DCT
-KJFK0328 KEWR
-EET/EGGX0046 20W0058 30W0118 40W0139 50W0202 53W0209 60W0226 65W0239 67W0245 KENDA0258 LINND0303 OWENZ0310 CAMRN0318 REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ RMK/TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031023 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/EGLLBAWD)

You can see on those where they accelerated and decelerated on both legs. NAT SM is the supersonic track they used.

Thanks Neon, but I can't decipher that. Hate to ask this but what does it mean in english? Sorry.

cml387

squonk wrote: »

Thanks Neon, but I can't decipher that. Hate to ask this but what does it mean in english? Sorry.

Essentially Concorde had one westbound (Sierrra Mike) and one eastbound track (sierra november)

The details above mostly show VOR's (e.g CPL compton) or reporting points (e.g MERLY) and latitude longitude points indicating the flightplan from Heathrow EGLL to New york KJFK and back.

The 450plus indicates when Concorde went supersonic (I think).

savagecabbages

How far did they have to keep from the coast? I'm guessing its not simply a straight line up from the edge of land... I'm talking in terms of small Islands etc.

And how many countries banned supersonic flight?
The TU-144s routes were nearly all over land IIRC

Jim236

Here is an image showing the routing that Air France Concordes took which will give you some idea of how far they had to fly from land:

http://www.worldairops.com/NAT/docs/NAT_Interest_AFConcordeTracksMap.jpg

Also below are a couple of websites relating to Concorde that will be of some use:

http://www.concordesst.com/
http://heritageconcorde.com/

squonk wrote: »

Hate to ask this but what does it mean in english? Sorry.

(FPL-BAW1-IS
= Flightplan for BAW1
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
= Type is Concorde/Standard equipment fitted/Mode C transponder (which transmits information from the cockpit to Air Traffic Control allowing ATC to track the aircraft's position, speed, altitude etc.)
-EGLL1730
= Departing London-Heathrow at 1730 Zulu
-N0563F280
= Initial speed will be 563 knots and initial altitude will be flight level 2 8 0 (28,000ft).
CPT L9 MALBY DCT C/UPGAS/N0740F280F430
= Depart on the Compton Standard Instrument Departure(SID) and then follow the L9 airway to waypoint MALBY and then direct to waypoint UPGAS, at which time speed will be increased to 740 knots and the aircraft will enter 'cruise climb' which is a gradual climb from FL280 to FL430 (28,000ft to 43,000ft). Because Concorde had a lot more drag than other aircraft, it was allowed to fly at a faster speed on the departure routing than other aircraft. So where normal subsonic aircraft would generally be limited to 250 knots below 10,000ft, Concorde would be allowed to fly at 270 knots.
SL2 MERLY SL2 LESLU SL2 C/5041N01500W/M200F450PLUS NATSM 4700N05000W 4246N06500W 42N067W
= Follow the SL2 airway to coordinates 5041N01500W (which is shown on the diagram above as SM15W), at which time speed will increase to Mach 2 and the aircraft will increase its altitude to FL450+ and will probably reach a maximum altitude of FL590 (59,000ft). The reason its given FL450+ and not an exact altitude is because it is well above all other aircraft so the only thing that will conflict with it are very high level fighters/bombers.
SM2A KENDA/M100F490 DCT LINND DCT OWENZ DCT CAMRN DCT
= Continue following the SM track to waypoint KENDA, at which point the aircraft will be at FL490 (49,000ft) and speed will reduce to Mach 1. It will continue along the filed routing until CAMRN, at which point it will join one of the standard arrival routings (STARs) for New York JFK.
-KJFK0328 KEWR
= Journey time to New York JFK will be 3hrs and 28mins. Newark Airport will be the alternate airport.
-EET/EGGX0046 20W0058 30W0118 40W0139 50W0202 53W0209 60W0226 65W0239 67W0245 KENDA0258 LINND0303 OWENZ0310 CAMRN0318
= Estimated Enroute Times. Will enter Shanwick(EGGX) airspace 46mins into flight, will cross 20W 58mins into flight, will cross 30W 1hr and 18mins into flight etc etc
REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ RMK/TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031023 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/EGLLBAWD)
Aircraft registration is G-BOAG and the SELCAL for the aircraft is BHFJ. Remarks are that the aircraft is TCAS (Traffic Collission Avoidance System) equipped and the Date Of Flight was October 23rd 2003. The plan is not in accordance with RVSM levels and was originated at British Airways Ops in London Heathrow.


Hope this helps!:)