primary school bullying

maurichlee

My son attends a local primary school in Cavan, Ireland and has been repeatedly bullied by the same boy for the past year. He has had to endure beatings and slander on most days. As a parent who guards and protects my child, I have raised this issue too many times to mention with the school yet there has been no end to this matter. Then yesterday, the icing on the cake....my son was using the facilities at the school a few minutes before the end of the school day, and this same boy urinated all over my sons' pants. He has now resorted to using his private parts as a weapon against my son.

When will something be done about this? When will bullying be layed to rest in this country? Do you know how embarrassing and demeaning this kind of behaviour is to the victim? Enough has to be enough, and something has to be done!

metrovelvet

That is disgusting! That child should be expelled.

Did you talk to the teacher and principal?

maurichlee

yes I have, I have spoken to the school about the ongoing bullying, I have sent in letters etc, but I went in this morning and told them about what happened yesterday. I also believe this boy should be expelled!

mecanoman

Jesus, thats not on. When it came to bullying my younger brother got a bit in primary and then into secondary form the same chap. The bully was a grandson of one of the primary school teachers too!

My older brother met the bullies older brother, threw him into the river!
Bit extreme i know but worked. He told the chap if my brother was picked on the same would happen again.
(or worse)

Extreme violence is sometimes the way, especially since you've tried to do things the right way.
*mod warning - Please do not condone the use of Violence on these boards*

Things stopped there and then. Good luck, i have a 4 year old who's going be starting school this year.
When it comes to family, i've only one and will do anything for them, don't let them down. Good luck sorting this out.

maurichlee

I agree, seems I have been left no other options but to resort to raising fists, I told my son to do some damage today, I also told the school that I am going public with this!!!

average_runner

Tell the school you are issuing legal proceedings against them, you have copys of all your letters etc.

trickywitch

Expulsion is not the answer here – especially not in a Primary School. The school has a duty of care here to BOTH children involved. Has the school not acted at all or just not acted in the way you would prefer?

mecanoman

Good stuff, your been forced into a corner, you've tried doing things the "right way". Now fight back. Keep us posted.

Orion

mecanoman wrote: »

Extreme violence is sometimes the way, especially since you've tried to do things the right way.

maurichlee wrote: »

I agree, seems I have been left no other options but to resort to raising fists, I told my son to do some damage today, I also told the school that I am going public with this!!!

We do not advocate violence here. Any further posts suggesting it will result in infractions or bans as appropriate.

Regarding going public - any posts potentially libelous will be removed.

RedXIV

average_runner wrote: »

Tell the school you are issuing legal proceedings against them, you have copys of all your letters etc.

Go in with this, mention things like "reparations for trauma caused by students and neglect by teachers"

If it was me, I'd go in and let them know casually that enough is enough, if they don't want to sort it out, you're getting solicitors involved. If there is evidence of you bringing this up a few times before, you've a decent enough case

maurichlee

I know that my morals and values will not allow me or my son to do any harm here, but I have had enough. This site is better moderated than my sons' school!!! I have tried being nice, being fair, telling my son to just ignore this boy, but this of course doesnt resolve the problem. The teachers literally roll their eyes now when they see me coming! And NO, they have not dealt with this matter! They need to get this boy's parents in and let them know how damaging this is! The apple doesnt fall too far from the tree!

Orion

Request a copy of the school's bullying policy - they are required to have one. Also get the Health and Safety policy for good measure. Use them to force the issue.

average_runner

Also has the school talked to his parents or have you mentioned it to his parents?

If so and the parents do nothing, then expulsion is the only way forward along with legal proceedings

Queen-Mise

i dont think it is possible to expel a child from primary school.

Go down legal route, duty of care etc, psychological damage libel. Threaten to bring down justice system on them (hopefully the threats are enough, but start the process).

In the meantime, build your sons confidence going to a martial art like kick boxing (that would lift anyones spirit). Constant reassurance that its not him at fault.

Orion

Who have you written to? The principal or the Board of Management? You should get the BoM involved as they will be the ones defending any legal action and it's quite possible that they are not aware of the issue. If they are aware and do nothing then they are in breach of their duties and liable legally for any action.

ktod

As a parent with two sons in school, this really makes my blood boil.

If you are getting no help from the school, you have to take matters further.

A similar thing happened to my brother and my parents went to the cops.
That ended things fairly swiftly I can tell you.

Good luck, and I really hope your child is ok. However, I would caution against any type of physical action against the bullies as you then have been lowered to their level and won't have a leg to stand on. Horribly unfair I know, but true.

Queen-Mise

thinking about this further that boy peeing on your son is physical assault - would visit to the police also be in order.

Dont judge the violence too harshly - we all feel like that when our child is being hurt. We would through hell & high water for them.

MyKeyG

I'm inclined to echo a previous poster. Have you thought of going to the other kids parents? The HSE could but you in contact with a social worker who will certainly advise you on the steps to take or demand of the school why no action has been taken and if so what it was. You could even go to the the board of education. You have a wealth of options open to you besides the school.

Unfortunately going public could become a sticky legal spot as depending on how you go about it, it could be construed as slander or defamation.

Either way you need to seek another support source as this will either dramatically damage his self-esteem and confidence or he'll snap like the kid in that video that was all over the web.

ktod

I hate to say this, but from personal experience with my own kids and bullying:

The parents of bullies seem unlikely to be happy well adjusted people - not to stand up for bullies, but they usually bully because they are very unhappy about something. That does not give them the right to treat your son the way that they are and it really needs to stop. But if you do speak to parents (which we were advised against doing when we had a situation with son number one) you may not get any help from them.

As the previous poster said, there is probably another range of options for you to go through with a school board and so on. For your son's sake though, sooner rather than later is better. And it sounds like it is getting more serious with the weeing experience - poor boy.

I can only sympathise.

We documented our son's time of being bullied - kept a diary (dates, times and locations within the school of the incidents) and even took photographs of bruises and so on. The school were very helpful actually, but had they not been, we would have had all the evidence. They upped their anti-bullying stance after that, and our son was given a medal and put on an anti-bullying task force led by children at the school. I'd like to think that because of that his self-confidence hasn't been as damaged as it could have been.

common sense brigade

i would rather have my right arm cut off than have my daughter subjected to that kinda disgraceful crap. I wouldnt rest if i was sending my daughter into that school . my honest opinion dont send him again until situation sorted or you find a new school. contact the bullys parents. and go to your local TD and paper. Also contact the guards . On another note which will be frowned on here if some jumped up little bully dared to piss on my daughter , i would confront him and scare the life out of him.

Orion

common sense brigade infracted for lack of common sense. No more suggestions of this nature will be accepted.

CrazyRabbit

The school is legally responsible for your sons safety and well being during school hours. This 'duty of care' is not being provided currently. As others have suggested, I would get the Board of Management/Principal involved and give them a choice...protect your son immediately, or face legal action.

If no immediate action is taken by the school, you could also contact the Dept of Education and go that route...but they are slow to act.

It has been mentioned that this bully has assaulted your son and so the Gardai should be called. However, this bully is probably under the age of criminal responsibility, so the only thing the Gardai could do is speak with the parents.

I don't advocate violence, but I do advocate self-defence, so perhaps some martial arts training would be good at boosting your sons confidence and give him the skills needed to defend himself if attacked.

byhookorbycrook

It's dreadful to think of this happening. Do not tell your son to fight back, though the temptation is huge,he will only end up in trouble. Going to the Dept will only mean you being referred back to the school,so write your concerns to the Board of Management and look for a meeting.

Where is this happening?In the yard, class, toilets?You def need a copy of the anti-bullying policy and to keep notes of everything.

RedXIV

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It's dreadful to think of this happening. Do not tell your son to fight back, though the temptation is huge,he will only end up in trouble. Going to the Dept will only mean you being referred back to the school,so write your concerns to the Board of Management and look for a meeting.

Where is this happening?In the yard, class, toilets?You def need a copy of the anti-bullying policy and to keep notes of everything.

...I've a feeling I'm gonna get infracted for this

Please don't tell a child NOT to stand up to a bully. While I do 100% agree the onus is on the school and BoM to sort this mess out, I cannot see the positive in telling a child to just suck it up.

My brother was bullied for years because he wouldn't stand up for himself and eventually, because he was told not to fight back, he snapped. He broke his bullies' arm and knocked out a tooth. You DON'T want that to happen, but its a very real possibility if you let the child believe he will get in trouble for standing up for himself

*holds arms out for the cuffs*

paperclip2

Hi OP, Sorry to hear that your son is going through this. Maybe the Anti-Bullying Centre in Trinity college could give you some further advice:http://www.abc.tcd.ie/

I hope things improve for your son.

deisemum

Your son has been assaulted and the school are failing to protect him so you should report it to the gardai as they are the ones responsible for dealing with assaults.

From personal experience I'd advise reporting it to the gardai, at the very least the fact that you get the gardai involved tends to be very good at focusing the school's attention to getting their thumb out and doing something about it.

All the school policies are not worth the paper they're written on if they're not implemented and followed through. Unfortunately some schools just write them and don't follow them.

Schools generally do not like one set of parents going round or phoning the other set of parents in these type of cases as they prefer to deal with it themselves so maybe advise the school that you will go round to the parents of the bully if the school does not deal with this issue.

To be honest I believe a child that deliberately pisses on another child or their clothes there's something seriously wrong as this is not normal behaviour so maybe threaten that you'll contact social services and bring it to their attention not that they'll get involved unless the school or the gardai bring it to their attention.

Moonbeam

RedXIV wrote: »

...I've a feeling I'm gonna get infracted for this

Please don't tell a child NOT to stand up to a bully. While I do 100% agree the onus is on the school and BoM to sort this mess out, I cannot see the positive in telling a child to just suck it up.

My brother was bullied for years because he wouldn't stand up for himself and eventually, because he was told not to fight back, he snapped. He broke his bullies' arm and knocked out a tooth. You DON'T want that to happen, but its a very real possibility if you let the child believe he will get in trouble for standing up for himself

*holds arms out for the cuffs*

Not unless you really want one;)
I understand that you don't seem to be condoning violence but that you are of the opinion that the child you learn to stand up for himself.

Orion

That's the way I read it too. Standing up to a bully does not have to mean being violent. The child should be able to stand up to him but bullies prey on physically weaker, less confident people so it may not be possible.

The only positive about any of this is that the child was able to tell the parent. That in itself is a form of standing up to the bully - A lot of bullied children keep it in and don't tell anyone for fear of making it worse.

maurichlee: Check back in a let us know how you get on with the Board of Management and/or police.

RedXIV

Moonbeam wrote: »

Not unless you really want one;)

I'm good thanks

di11on

Macros42 wrote: »

We do not advocate violence here. Any further posts suggesting it will result in infractions or bans as appropriate.

Regarding going public - any posts potentially libelous will be removed.

I understand the sentiment here... no one I imagine is advocating "violence". However, that doesn't mean that the OPs son shouldn't be able to assert himself physically and physically defend himself against this abuse. While unprovoked aggression is certainly not to be encouraged, I don't see any problem with the OPs son being allowed to physically stand his ground when being intimidated.

If we do nothing else as parents, we should teach our kids that there's a limit to the amount of cr@p that they should accept from other kids. I've told my daughters that if they are experiencing unwelcome behaviour and if the kids concerned don't head repeated announcements to this effect, they should do what they need to do to protect themselves and that they don't have to put up with the bahaviour... even if this involves making a lot of noise or pushing a kid that isn't getting the message.

There's a danger that our children's right and confidence to assert and defend themselves and consequently their sense of self worth, is undermined by outright objection to any form of physicality.

Orion

I'm not sure which part of "Extreme violence is sometimes the way" is not advocating violence. Either way please do not question a mod warning on the thread.

gaeilgegrinds1

I'm a teacher and a parent. Firstly, violence won't end this in my opinion. Secondly, you need to get a copy of the Discipline Policy, request a meeting with the principal and go in and ask, not on your own though. Bring a social worker or friend with you. Then you need to write to the B.O.M. and state which parts of the policy are not being adhered to.
You should hear back soon but get it done before the Easter.
I hate to say it here but as a child who was badly bullied, had my hair set on fire and was pissed on my face, bullies parents are often no better than themselves, go down the legal route.
Involving the Gardaí is next on the list as the school is not providing adequate duty of care to your child.

maurichlee

Went to the meeting at the school about the urinating incident on my son. The priest who is the Board of Management said that the evidence (pair of pants that were urinated on) could not be used as evidence as they were tampered with(he suggested we had taken them home and performed the urination ourselves!!)OMG!!!I am so shocked! Not one of us thought of that!!! hmm... Once again the victim gets VICTIMIZED!!!

ktod

In my opinion, it is now time to take this higher and involve the cops. End of. Go and speak to them and see what they say, this is an absolutely intolerable situation and you are getting no help whatsoever from the school - why on earth would you make something like that up? Ridiculous people.

Orion

Definitely speak to the police now. They will be able to do very little initially but if you tell them each time there is this kind of harassment then they can build up a body of evidence.

The priest is not the board of management - he is the chairman of it. There should also be two parents and two community reps on the board as well as two teachers. Write to each of them making a formal complaint - if they then refuse to investigate it you will have grounds to involve the Department of Education as well.

Have you received a copy of the bullying/discipline policy yet?

Morag

You can also write to the bishop for the deoices and his is the direct patron of the school.
I would also be demanding that the child be places in another class.
Sounds like the teacher is incompetent.

deisemum

Macros42 wrote: »

Definitely speak to the police now. They will be able to do very little initially but if you tell them each time there is this kind of harassment then they can build up a body of evidence.

The priest is not the board of management - he is the chairman of it. There should also be two parents and two community reps on the board as well as two teachers. Write to each of them making a formal complaint - if they then refuse to investigate it you will have grounds to involve the Department of Education as well.

Have you received a copy of the bullying/discipline policy yet?

Often the parents on BOMs are the creeping jesus brigade and will go along with the priest and principal and those from the wider community are usually the same ilk and also go along with the principal and parish priest and are often principals in other schools or of certain professions who are also involved in the church.

I'm not a bit surprised that the priest turned it back on the victim, I've been there and worn the t-shirt. You need to get the gardai involved, at the very least you'll be bringing in independent people and not leaving it in the hands of the principal and parish priest to cover it up.

LostinKildare

maurichlee wrote: »

Went to the meeting at the school about the urinating incident on my son. The priest who is the Board of Management said that the evidence (pair of pants that were urinated on) could not be used as evidence as they were tampered with(he suggested we had taken them home and performed the urination ourselves!!)OMG!!!I am so shocked! Not one of us thought of that!!! hmm... Once again the victim gets VICTIMIZED!!!

Wow, I'd unleash the hounds of hell on them now. Make a complaint to the gardai, and write a letter to the bishop explaining everything that's happened, all the times your child's been bullied, all the times you've complained and all the responses you've gotten from the school and BOM. Tell them you've made a police report and unless they sort out this intolerable situation IMMEDIATELY you are willing to do whatever's necessary to protect your child, including going to the media and bringing a lawsuit against the diocese. CC the letter to the school, the priest/BOM, the guard you complained to, your lawyer if you have one, the archbishop, the Dept of Ed, your TD -- your letter will be evidence that all these parties were informed of the situation, and they will bring pressure on the school because they won't want to be blamed for doing nothing to protect a child if something else happens.

rusty_racer94

This should be stopped right away and if doesn't help then it can be a Gardai case, my youngest brother in Primary school used to get bullied by a boy who failed 3 times and his family had a reputation of not finishing school and his brother who was supposed to be in Secondary school even had a child. I was walking home one day and the little fella came with one of his friends and started picking on me, being older than him I ignored him and walked away, then after that night, it got out of hand when his cousins used to come around my house frequently looking for me, they even drove around in a white van hoping to pull me in and beat the crap out of me. I reported this to the Garda and they warned the boy (the 3rd time). Now if he even fails the drinking test, he is jailed for the night.

Orion

deisemum wrote: »

Often the parents on BOMs are the creeping jesus brigade and will go along with the priest and principal and those from the wider community are usually the same ilk and also go along with the principal and parish priest and are often principals in other schools or of certain professions who are also involved in the church.

I completely agree. But the point is to ensure that the whole BoM are aware of the issue and put them in a position where they are obliged to do something about it or face quite serious legal consequences. They should be doing something out of a sense of duty but failing that a sense of fear will do

elbee

maurichlee wrote: »

Went to the meeting at the school about the urinating incident on my son. The priest who is the Board of Management said that the evidence (pair of pants that were urinated on) could not be used as evidence as they were tampered with(he suggested we had taken them home and performed the urination ourselves!!)OMG!!!I am so shocked! Not one of us thought of that!!! hmm... Once again the victim gets VICTIMIZED!!!

So in other words, if an item of clothing is urinated upon, the child should leave it in the school to ensure he will be believed? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard and I have heard many stupid things.

OP, the fact that a member of the board accusing you of fabricating the incidents definitely means you have to go higher. Gardai, bishop, Department of Education, whatever! Don't bother going to the bully's parents, follow the official channels.

I am shocked that the priest said that to you. Why on earth would parents make something like this up?? I hope he loses his post over that!

Jumbo156

Sharrow wrote: »

You can also write to the bishop for the deoices and his is the direct patron of the school.
I would also be demanding that the child be places in another class.
Sounds like the teacher is incompetent.

O/P I am really sorry to hear how your son is being treated.
But can I just say, writing to the bishop is a complete waste of time. Are we back in the 60's?. The church as has been proven over and over again will only cover themselves and will do nothing to put themselves in a bad light.

You need to get a solicitor letter into the school immediately and take it from there.
Even a local newspaper may be interested.( or at least a threat of one)
No School is going to want that...

Best of Luck OP, hope the little fella get the protection he needs soon.

deisemum

OP has there been any improvement with this?

run_Forrest_run

I'm so annoyed reading all of this. Jesus, in this day and age we still have priests and bishops involved in school management, haven't they done enough damage to children of this State!

OP, I also think you need to go down the legal route here. The time for playing games with the school management is over, enough.

January

Thread is old... OP if you wish to update, please PM me and I'll open it again.