I have recently found my grandfather's 1916 Easter rising medal

agnesd

It is inscribed with his name and the name Hibernian Rifles. unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with much Irish history as I live In the U.S? And my parents rarely mentioned my grandparents....is this a significant piece of Irish history?

thanks for you assistance,

AG

finipops

agnesd wrote: »

It is inscribed with his name and the name Hibernian Rifles. unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with much Irish history as I live In the U.S? And my parents rarely mentioned my grandparents....is this a significant piece of Irish history?

thanks for you assistance,

AG

This thread is useless without pictures.:D

Morlar

The Hibernian Rifles fought in the GPO, so it is significant in that respect. Also they were few in number which makes it rare. I would be interested in seeing pictures of it too.

There is an interesting article about them here :
http://www.aohdiv7.org/hist_hibernian%20rifles.htm

Easter is a very poignant time for the nationalist community.
Taken from the book Éirí Amach na Cásca. The Easter Rising 1916.

Although not mentioned in the Proclamation of the Republic, the Hibernian Rifles were among the units which fought in Dublin in Easter Week 1916 and are listed as such by Padraig Pearse in a bulletin issued by him in Irish War News.
The Hibernian Rifles were the Military Arm of the A.O.H. ( Irish - American Alliance ) who had broken away from the A.O.H. (Board of Erin ) about 1907. As the name indicates, most of their success was in the USA where the movement was under the influence of Clan-na-Gael, and it is quite clear that their attitude was far removed from that of the A.O.H. (BOE).
This was made clear by the Commandant of the Rifles, J. Scollan, in a lecture on 'Treason in Ireland', given to the Michael Dwyer Sinn Féin Cumann on December 16th 1914, in which he said: "Many more of us through God's grace shall live to see the Union Jack of England down in the dust and our own immortal green interwoven with the yellow and white of the Irish Republic waving proudly and victoriously over the land."
During the 1913 strike and lockout a special levy was placed on the members in Ireland and a fund opened in the USA for the relief of those affected by the strike and it is quite clear that the Hibernian Rifles were on friendly terms with the Irish Citizens Army when founded. In fact they lost some members to the new body, advertised regularly in the Irish Worker to the effect that they were willing to co-operate with the other national groups, and obtained some of their rifles from James Connolly - others being bought from British soldiers.
The I.R.B. does not seem to have trusted them completely to judge from a barbed comment by 'Sarsfield' (P.S. O'Hegarty) in Irish Freedom, March 1914, and though the Irish Volunteers refused them affiliation as a unit - as they did the Irish Citizens Army also - friendly co-operation became possible, mainly, it would appear, through Thomas McDonagh.
Through him, perhaps, they participated as a body at the O'Donovan Rossa funeral and later in allowing their headquarters at 28 North Frederick Street, to be used as an overnight stop for many of the Volunteers returning from England late in 1915 and early the next year.
In 1915 they also launched a weekly paper The Hibernian to add to the mosquito press, as the Redmondites scornfully called the nationalist papers, and in it was serialized 'Ireland's Roll of Honor' - a list of those killed or wounded at Harrel's 'Battle of Clontarf' and Bachelor's Walk, imprisoned, deported or served with exclusion orders under the Defense of the Realm Act.
It was one of the most aggressive pieces of journalism of the period and one that deserves more attention than it has received.
Coming up to the rising, their co-operation with the Volunteers increased, but no definite date for the insurrection was given them by the revolutionary leaders.
On Easter Sunday, 1916, they paraded as usual at their headquarters. Startled by McNeill's countermanding order in the Sunday Independent that day, the commandant, realizing that something serious was afoot, ordered them to parade the next day.
The fight having started on Monday, the men were given the choice of participating and about 20 - 30 went to the G.P.O. at midnight. On Tuesday some of them with some of the men from Maynooth were sent to the Exchange Hotel in Parliament Street where in a brisk exchange they lost one man, fatally wounded, before retiring to the G.P.O. where most of them remained for the rest of the week.
If small in number the Hibernian Rifles should not be forgotten in any celebration of the Rising that was not of their planning, but in which they willingly joined when once it had begun.

Taken from the book Éirí Amach na Cásca. The Easter Rising 1916

There is also a good site here:

http://www.theeasterrising.eu/
&
http://www.easter1916.net/

agnesd

medal.JPG

I hope I have done this right... thank you for the information

briano

Is John Scollan your grandfather?

They also have a bit on it here: http://irishmedals.org/gpage24.html

agnesd

Yes, he was my grandfather though he passed away before I was born. I was raised by my mother and she spoke very little about Ireland. I found this medal in a shoebox of my father's things when he passed away, there is also the armband shown on that site you linked me too.

Thank you so much.

arnhem44

An incredible find,if it was me I would treasure it dearly.

agnesd

Thank You all, we plan to cherish it.:)

Question, in Morlar's post there is a bit that says; "This was made clear by the Commandant of the Rifles, J. Scollan, in a lecture on 'Treason in Ireland', given to the Michael Dwyer Sinn Féin Cumann on December 16th 1914"

What does this mean? I know he was a 'newspaperman' but other than that I know little else. Did he make speeches?

Morlar

You may get more information from the National Archives of Ireland (it could also be worth trying http://www.rootschat.com/ under the Ireland-Dublin section or the history /heritage forum on boards.ie )

If you look at the attachment there his name is listed :

Scollan, John J Commandant Hibernian Rifles, Dublin 1916 Dublin 318, 314 298

Unfortunately his does not appear to be one of the ones chosen to be put online :

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/1916/gallery.html

However it is on file, so you may want to contact them to get hold of his 1916 Witness Statements.

Morlar

Btw I'd agree with that it is a remarkable find, If I were you I would hold on to it as it is a significant medal.

In my opinion it belongs either with the family or in a museum.

If you were thinking of donating or lending it to a reputable Irish museum in advance of the upcoming Easter Rising 100th Anniversary in 2016 you could try either Kilmainham Jail or Collins Barracks National Museum ;

http://www.museum.ie/en/homepage.aspx
http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/the-easter-rising.aspx

http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/dublin/kilmainhamgaol/

I am sure both would love to see it/hear about it.

FYI here is a link to my own (non affiliated) hobby - site to show you the context they display their items in

Collins Barracks Museum

Kilmainham Jail Museum

agnesd

Amazing! Thank you so much for your valuable information. In my Dad's will he mentioned an an autograph book from the jail my grandfather was held in 1916. Apparently my father had loaned it to a museum in Ireland about 10 years ago. I thought it was the National Museum of Ireland as he had an enclosed card, however, they have no record of it. I thought nothing of it until I was given the medal and this has fueled my interest. One of my grandfather's cell mates was Michael Collins and apparently they had a running cartoon drawing througout the book. It sure would be lovely to see that!

Trotter

agnesd wrote: »

Amazing! Thank you so much for your valuable information. In my Dad's will he mentioned an an autograph book from the jail my grandfather was held in 1916. Apparently my father had loaned it to a museum in Ireland about 10 years ago. I thought it was the National Museum of Ireland as he had an enclosed card, however, they have no record of it. I thought nothing of it until I was given the medal and this has fueled my interest. One of my grandfather's cell mates was Michael Collins and apparently they had a running cartoon drawing througout the book. It sure would be lovely to see that!

Could that cartoon book be in the Collins Barracks Museum in Dublin?
Its an amazing story for the medal to be found like that.

Morlar

agnesd wrote: »

Amazing! Thank you so much for your valuable information. In my Dad's will he mentioned an an autograph book from the jail my grandfather was held in 1916. Apparently my father had loaned it to a museum in Ireland about 10 years ago. I thought it was the National Museum of Ireland as he had an enclosed card, however, they have no record of it. I thought nothing of it until I was given the medal and this has fueled my interest. One of my grandfather's cell mates was Michael Collins and apparently they had a running cartoon drawing througout the book. It sure would be lovely to see that!

That does sound very interesting ! Kilmainham Jail museum does have several prisoner autograph books on display (but I believe these are mostly War of Independence/Civil War related rather than Easter Rising) :














I think Collins was among the rebels deported to england, (the youngest ones who were underage were held in Richmond Barracks then released the following week, the rising leaders & signatories went to Kilmainham). Collins was I believe held in Stafford Gaol (england) then moved to the Concentraion Camp Frongoch (North Wales). I don't believe Collins was ever held in Kilmainham (open to correction on that).

The witness statement from your GF should verify his whereabouts in the aftermath of the Rising.

agnesd

Trotter wrote: »

Could that cartoon book be in the Collins Barracks Museum in Dublin?
Its an amazing story for the medal to be found like that.

I am going to check it out! I can't thank you all enough for your kind assistance! This has made me think about making a trip this summer, I haven't been to Ireland since I was 3 (and that was a looong time ago).

agnesd

GF was apparently taken to Frongough (?) also. It is said he was a trouble maker . I have his prisoner number from that institution, I believe. My eldest sister remembers being very small and going on a field trip to a jail (we lived in Dublin) where she saw his name engraved or painted in a cell? Does this sound plausable?

Morlar

As an FYI here is Collins and his cellmates in Stafford Gaol :

Morlar

agnesd wrote: »

GF was apparently taken to Frongough (?) also. It is said he was a trouble maker . I have his prisoner number from that institution, I believe. My eldest sister remembers being very small and going on a field trip to a jail (we lived in Dublin) where she saw his name engraved or painted in a cell? Does this sound plausable?

Kilmainham Jail was restored in I think 1963-1966, there were murals and engravings, names on walls and prison doors etc One of the religious murals was re-painted (I believe there was a controversy over this), many of the the engraved names survived and can be seen to this day, so yes I think this does sounds plausible.

You could contact them directly and ask them to check for you - the guides in there may know which names are where. A relative of mine was also held there and for some of the cells they also have nametags placed over them to inform visitors of who was in which cell etc.

agnesd

I am learning so much, Thank You again! I only have two photos of GF and he is very old in both... one taken in 1946 and another maybe the early sixties...what a lovely picture you have posted!

arnhem44

Here's also a link if you wish to contact some of the different institutes that hold the records covering the different periods during that era.

http://www.irishsoldiers.com/research/tracing.htm

Robus

I found the following which i sent to OP

• Scollan J.J. GPO, O'Connell Street Garrison, See the "Roll of Honour" at the National Museum
• Scollan J.J. 18 St Joseph's Avenue, Drumcondra, : Frongoch Roll Call, Sean O'Mahony's book "Frongoch: University of Revolution"
• Scollan James a Member IRA, Donegal- Fermanagh, 1921 ,made a "Witness Statement" number 711 to The "Bureau of Military History"
• Scollan John J a Commandant Hibernian Rifles, Dublin, 1916 deposited a "Collection of Documents" number 298 with the Bureau of "Military History"
• Scollan John J a Commandant Hibernian Rifles, Dublin, 1916 ,made a "Witness Statement" number 318; 341 to The "Bureau of Military History"
• Scollan John Joseph ,Commandant Hibernian Rifles 1916 ,See Annie Ryan's books "Witnesses" and/or "Comrades"

A great find with great research potential.

Roibeard l

You could contact the AOH(Ancient order of Hibernian)as the Hibernian Rifles are the armed branch of AOH there is an American AOH you could contact.They may have some info on The Hibernian Rifles

Robus

AG, did you ever get the autograph book, was it in "Collection of Documents" number 298 with the Bureau of "Military History"?

Sheila O

Hi
I found your picture very interesting, my grandfather was also in Stafford prison
and he is on the Frongoch Roll book.

I am in possession of his Pension Certificate.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

sean McNally

Hi Agnes D,
Can you tell me what was the name on the medal? Are you saying JJ Scollan was your grandfather?

PaulMason

agnesd wrote: »

Yes, he was my grandfather though he passed away before I was born. I was raised by my mother and she spoke very little about Ireland. I found this medal in a shoebox of my father's things when he passed away, there is also the armband shown on that site you linked me too.

Thank you so much.

Hi there, my grandfather was Francis Devine. He was a good friend of jj scrollan and served with him in the hib riffles and during the Easter rising in the GPO. Your grandfather helped my grandad get his military pension in 1936. I have all the documentation. They were obviously good friends so i, wondering do you hav any information regarding my grandfather. He was the quarter master of the 1st battalion e coy dublin brigade.

Dr Strange

PaulMason wrote: »

Hi there, my grandfather was Francis Devine. He was a good friend of jj scrollan and served with him in the hib riffles and during the Easter rising in the GPO. Your grandfather helped my grandad get his military pension in 1936. I have all the documentation. They were obviously good friends so i, wondering do you hav any information regarding my grandfather. He was the quarter master of the 1st battalion e coy dublin brigade.

Hi Paul, this is a fascinating coincidence! I do hope you get a reply to this but I have to point out that the poster agnesd was last online here on boards.ie about 2 years ago in 2012. I am not sure if she is still reading this forum but I really hope she does and gets in contact with you.

Best of luck!

PS: Maybe send her a private message (click on her name on the left side and options will become available). At least that way a message will be send to the email address she registered with on boards.ie and will notify her about the private message from you.

Dermot Paul

agnesd wrote: »

Yes, he was my grandfather though he passed away before I was born. I was raised by my mother and she spoke very little about Ireland. I found this medal in a shoebox of my father's things when he passed away, there is also the armband shown on that site you linked me too.

Thank you so much.

Hi there, my grandad was a personnel friend of your grandad jj scrollan. My grandad was one of the founders of the hib riffles and fought under your grandads command in the Easter rising in the GPO among other places. Your grandad also helped my grandad get his military pension in 1936 by submitting testimonies on his behalf regarding where he fought and with whom etc . My grandads name was Francis Devine, he was the quatermaster for the 1st battalion E Coy south dublin brigade. Your grandad is mentioned a lot in the documentation I have. The only regret I have is I have not got his 1916 medal, only his 1921 medal. I applied for a replacement 10 years ago but only received signed cert from the minister at the time !

Dermot Paul

Preusse wrote: »

Hi Paul, this is a fascinating coincidence! I do hope you get a reply to this but I have to point out that the poster agnesd was last online here on boards.ie about 2 years ago in 2012. I am not sure if she is still reading this forum but I really hope she does and gets in contact with you.

Best of luck!

PS: Maybe send her a private message (click on her name on the left side and options will become available). At least that way a message will be send to the email address she registered with on boards.ie and will notify her about the private message from you.

Hi, please excuse the double up on this entry, as passwords have escaped me I could not get in with my Paul mason account so had to set up another account !! Anyways I was so excited when I saw this it was surreal when I read it. It was actually my wife stumbled across this. I really hope I get a reply to from this person. I actually might do that and try email her privatly. Thanks for the advice and I will certainly keep you posted if I get a reply

comewatmay

Great stories!