Anyone go to christenings?

liamw

I can't bring myself to go to these. I just think it's plain wrong even if people only do it for 'cultural' reasons. Anyone here go along to christenings and not bothered by it?

Galvasean

Never been to one (apart from the one where they tried to drown me as an infant). To be honest, I doubt I'll ever go to one. No one seems to mind. Even the parents generally just want it over n' done with then back to the gaff for drinks.

Not that they let my kind near christenings. Mmmm delicious baby....

strobe

I don't think I've ever been invited to the actual church thing. Usually just parents, godparents and occasionally grandparents that go to that innit?

I have no problem heading to the pub or the house for a few drinks after if asked to.

I've gone to both my baby cousins' christenings. I was bothered but... I don't know, I just sat through it really and tried to imagine it as a celebration/naming thing!

Tin Foil Hat

liamw wrote: »

I can't bring myself to go to these. I just think it's plain wrong even if people only do it for 'cultural' reasons. Anyone here go along to christenings and not bothered by it?

I try to avoid them as much as possible. I find it quite depressing to watch another generation put through this awful bullsh1t.
However, I won't go to the point of making a scene to avoid one.

ShooterSF

It would have to be direct family or one of my best friends and I'd be at the back. Don't like churches, don't like kids/babies (unless they've got ketchup on them) so it's not my favourite event.

liamw

bluewolf wrote: »

I've gone to both my baby cousins' christenings. I was bothered but... I don't know, I just sat through it really and tried to imagine it as a celebration/naming thing!

I'm torn between commending you on the one hand and thinking you probably shouldn't be supporting it on the other. Support might be the wrong word to use, but surely your presence at these events will further their continuation no?

liamw

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

However, I won't go to the point of making a scene to avoid one.

Ye I wouldn't purposefully make a 'scene', but at the same time I would never attend. If the person inviting me wants to make a scene over it that's their problem really..

XxMCRxBabyxX

Was at my cousin's christening and was actually really impressed by the priest. he didn't make it a whole Catholic thing but talked about all kinds of Christian religions and their ceremonies and I thought he did it well. He didn't do any "Shoving the religion down our throats" per say

liamw

liamw wrote: »

I'm torn between commending you on the one hand and thinking you probably shouldn't be supporting it on the other. Support might be the wrong word to use, but surely your presence at these events will further their continuation no?

Trust me, my uncle and aunt are catholic and would not stop doing it just because I was or wasn't there. Only thing I'm doing is NOT making a scene.
I have to say I liked the priest at the 2nd one well enough - he made sure to get the godparents and parents involved and not just going through the motions, and he talked about it being part of their community etc. For a ritual I don't like, it wasn't as bad as I'd have thought.

liamw

bluewolf wrote: »

Trust me, my uncle and aunt are catholic and would not stop doing it just because I was or wasn't there. Only thing I'm doing is NOT making a scene.

I don't mean that specific event.. I just meant in general longer term

liamw

liamw wrote: »

I don't mean that specific event.. I just meant in general longer term

Oh I see. Well I can't imagine it coming up again really. Of the people I know, none are having children and there would be few of those that do who would have christenings, I think.

I don't think a difference will be made by going or not going but rather letting people know that it's ok not to if they decide not to have one.

Tin Foil Hat

liamw wrote: »

Ye I wouldn't purposefully make a 'scene', but at the same time I would never attend. If the person inviting me wants to make a scene over it that's their problem really..

Personally, I have no intention of being the atheist equivalent of the subjects of this thread.
Of course, it's up to you to make your own choices.

old hippy

Yup. Out of politeness, mainly.

I may not agree with it but I may also love the people involved.

Dades

Anyone go to christenings?

If I'm invited, yes.

liamw

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Personally, I have no intention of being the atheist equivalent of the subjects of this thread.
Of course, it's up to you to make your own choices.

I would go to a wedding no problem. Adults making a conscious decision to wed in a church is not the same as a christening.

If the people being discussed in that thread had decent rational reasons for not attending the service, then I don't think anyone would have an issue with it.

Gregor Samsa

I've been at a few, for nephews/cousins of my wife.

We went to one when my wife was pregnant with my daughter. To be honest, it was the best thing we ever went to. Up to that point, I was dead set against my daughter being baptized once she was born, but my wife wanted to do it so as not to cause controversy in her family. Half way through the ceremony, she turned to me and said "There's no way we're doing this for our baby". And we didn't. I think it was the precise point that my wife realised that she wasn't a Catholic just because she was brought up as one.

I think if more people actually paid attention to what goes on in the ceremony, and realised that real Catholics actually believed all this gibberish, a lot fewer people would bother to put their kids through it.

axer

I have been to two for a nephew and niece. I'd say if I didn't go I would the weird atheist making a big deal out of nothing. It is great when you can go to baptisms etc and totally step back and look at how ridiculus they are in that they look like something from the 16th century.

I dont know if I will refuse the next one which will probably be in the late summer. On one hand I hate the idea of performing a medieval ritual on a child to make them a member of such an evil organisation on the other hand I think does it really make a difference since it is the indoctrination in the schools that actually does the damage not the baptism. So im not sure what I will do yet - I will probably go to the actual baptism - definitely not a mass beforehand.

axer

phutyle wrote: »

I think if more people actually paid attention to what goes on in the ceremony, and realised that real Catholics actually believed all this gibberish, a lot fewer people would bother to put their kids through it.

Yes, there should actually be a humanist/atheist campaign highlighting what catholics ought to believe if they are actually catholics and to encourage them to listen and watch at mass/baptisms etc to see how ridiculous they are.

Something like:
Next time you are at mass listen - do you really believe it?
For support in breaking free call our hotline on 1800 666 616

Penn

Went to a few. Two nephews especially. I don't see the problem really. Although at the last one, the priest asked if anyone would like to read the Prayers of the Faithful. Being in the end seat of the aisle, nearest the altar, my sister asked me to go up.

Have to admit, I got a bit of an internal laugh being an atheist reading the Prayers of the Faithful on an altar.

I don't see it as being a hypocrite or anything. **** it. I was there for my family, and was hardly going to refuse to say the prayers and make a scene because I'm an atheist. It was my sister's family day, and it was important to her. And it's their choice to have the child christened or not.

If I got my own child christened, that'd be a different story. I like the idea of just having a meal with family and friends.

My only concern is, my other sister is pregnant, and there's a chance she is going to want me to be the godfather. What do I do in that situation? Again, I'd be willing to go along with it because it's what my sister wants (and if something happened to them, trust me, I'd still be pretty far down the list to become legal guardian). I see it as more of a ceremonial title than a "You have to keep Satan out of this child's life by teaching them about God!" legally-binding contract. So I think I'd go along with it, but at the same time, due to the census my folks now know that I am a confirmed atheist. Cue awkward conversations...

seamus

I've been to one recently where the father was completely and utterly in opposition to any form of christening, but the mother wanted one because she's not yet accepted that she's not a real Catholic and her very country parents would be bitterly upset to find that the child got no christening.

So a big row ensued. Eventually the father was argued down to a "water on the head is OK, but the whole church ceremony is not". So they found a priest living in a small town in Co. Wicklow with a small retreat centre who agreed to do the baptism. In the end it turned out quite nice. The usual ceremony was done away with, rejecting satan and all that nonsense, no big church.

The priest was very sensitive to everyone's beliefs and focussed the ceremony more on appreciating how great it is to be alive and welcoming the child into the web of life that is the planet earth and so on rather than going on about God and creation and any other such nonsense. The room was surrounded by big green mountains and birds and stuff flying around outside and running waterfalls not far away, it was very pleasant. As the godfather I was a little iffy about what to do about saying any voodoo incantations, but at the end of the day the priest didn't even involve the godparents.

But still in the end you're left thinking, "What's the point in that?"

biko

Been dragged along to them a few times. Tbh, it's more as a sign of respect for the family than agreeing with the practice. If the ceremony was druid and held under a tree I'd probably go too.

Malari

I went to one a year or two ago. It was my cousin's first baby, and I love her and never see her so of course I was going to go. I took a big fancy camera and took loads of pics, just walked around and didn't treat it as a formal thing. I mean there's no actual rule that you can't stand on the altar and take pics down the church is there?

It was more like a doctor's waiting room anyway, with about half a dozen brats being baptised the same day, so there was lots of talking and it didn't feel like a ceremony.

Barrington

Barrington wrote: »

My only concern is, my other sister is pregnant, and there's a chance she is going to want me to be the godfather. What do I do in that situation? Again, I'd be willing to go along with it because it's what my sister wants (and if something happened to them, trust me, I'd still be pretty far down the list to become legal guardian). I see it as more of a ceremonial title than a "You have to keep Satan out of this child's life by teaching them about God!" legally-binding contract. So I think I'd go along with it, but at the same time, due to the census my folks now know that I am a confirmed atheist. Cue awkward conversations...

I face the exact same situation in a couple of months. I've been to several christenings for nephews before, which wasn't a big deal at all for me. I just stayed quiet and watched the ceremony while laughing inside at the ridiculousness of it all. No big deal.

This time it'll be different, though. My brother has asked me to be godfather (he's an atheist, too--well, he classifies himself as an agnostic in the non-technical sense of the word--the wish for baptism comes from the other side of the family). I couldn't refuse, I feel it'd be a huge show of disrespect. I'll just have to suck it up and go through with the motions.

That's not all, though. The priest carrying out the ceremony is a complete and utter boll*cks. He's nothing short of it, everybody that I know feels the same way. I honestly can't describe how much of a pr*ck he is. Anyway, four or five years ago I sent him a 10 page long letter requesting excommunication (it began as a dare, really!), so it's safe to say we don't see eye to eye. Apparently he's been wanting to meet up with me for the past four years to counter the points I raised, but no time seems to suit him. I'll have to tell him before the christening to leave our personal affairs out of it, because he's the kind of guy that would raise the issue mid-ceremony, causing a huge affair and embarrassment on my part.

I suppose, at the least, it'll be an entertaining experience.

liamw

Barrington wrote: »

And it's their choice to have the child christened or not.

Do you think this is OK though.. to impose a belief system on a child?

I would not go, I disagree with it on principle. It comes down to which you value higher I guess... going along with it to please your family or sticking with your principles.

I think I can relate to this post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63757730&postcount=13

Standman

I think it'd be quite rude not to go. If they've invited you they obviously think highly enough of you to want you to be there.

Penn

liamw wrote: »

Do you think this is OK though.. to impose a belief system on a child?

Yes. To be perfectly honest, I do. Parents have to do what is best for their child, in all aspects of their life. If the parents believe in Christianity, they should have the child christened. I know the child has no choice but the child cannot make a choice. It is up to the parents to make that choice.

What I don't agree with, is imposing a belief system on someone who can make the decision for themselves.

liamw

Barrington wrote: »

Yes. To be perfectly honest, I do. Parents have to do what is best for their child, in all aspects of their life. If the parents believe in Christianity, they should have the child christened. I know the child has no choice but the child cannot make a choice. It is up to the parents to make that choice.

What I don't agree with, is imposing a belief system on someone who can make the decision for themselves.

Really... it's a belief system. It's saying 'you believe that yahweh created the universe and that the bible is the word of god' before the child can make that decision themselves.

I could understand you if you were talking about vaccinations or choosing what foods are healthiest for your child before they can decide. The parents have no right to impose this. Surely the best approach is to impose the least onto a child but engage their critical thinking faculties etc. until they are old enough to make their own decision...

liamw

Standman wrote: »

I think it'd be quite rude not to go. If they've invited you they obviously think highly enough of you to want you to be there.

What's your point? If you're invited to an event you should go it it no-matter what the event is?

seamus

liamw wrote: »

Do you think this is OK though.. to impose a belief system on a child?

Well you see that depends. Parenting and the freedoms we so cherish underpins that parents want to do what they think is the best thing for their child and therefore they should be allowed to unless that "best thing" poses a risk to the child's health (physical or mental).

While you could argue that being baptised brings along with it a whole pile of hang ups and confusions into adulthood, so do a lot of other things. Every parent screws their children up in their own specific way.

But does it pose a risk to the child's mental or physical health? Not in most cases. If a belief system requires that children are indoctrinated early and the parents believe that this is the best thing for their child, then illogical and abhorrent as I find it, I have no good reason other than my private disquiet to oppose it.

A more interesting argument though is whether most parents in Ireland are baptising their children because they believe that's what's best for the child? I don't think so. The vast majority of answers would boil down to:

- It's tradition, innit?
- My parents would be upset if I didn't
- All his peers will be baptised, I don't want him to feel left out

Penn

liamw wrote: »

Really... it's a belief system. It's saying 'you believe that yahweh created the universe and that the bible is the word of god' before the child can make that decision themselves.

I could understand you if you were talking about vaccinations or choosing what foods are healthiest for your child before they can decide. The parents have no right to impose this. Surely the best approach is to impose the least onto a child but engage their critical thinking faculties etc. until they are old enough to make their own decision...

I know it's a belief system, but the parents have the child baptised because it is what they believe is best. I agree, they are imposing their beliefs on the child. Dragging them to Mass all the time, making them make their Holy Communion and Confirmation etc because it ties in with the parents beliefs. But the parents have to do what they think is best for the child.

Hypothetically, a pair of Christian parents decide not to get their child christened. Then, the child dies in an accident. You don't think the Christian parents would spend the rest of their lives worrying their child went to Hell because they didn't have them baptised? Whether or not I think that is the case, that is what they believe. Baptising the child is making them a member of the Christian Church, because the Christian parents believe that is what is best for the child.

What I disagree with, are schools also teaching the child about Christianity rather than religion in general (how it helps people, how it hurts others etc), and parents who don't accept when their child decides to change or abandon religions when they are old enough to make that decision.

I was baptised, first confession, communion, confirmation etc etc. Yes, against my will. But I don't think my parents were wrong to do that, because they were trying to teach me what they believe, and how to live my life, according to the way and the religion which they believe is best and they have faith in. Now that I'm older, I can make my own decision, and I have. But I'm not going to kick in the doors when I go home screaming "YOU MADE ME A CHRISTIAN WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME!".

So yes, it is the parents choice to have their child baptised. The problem isn't baptism as far as I can see, the problem is confirmation.

Confirmation is when the child is now supposedly old enough to choose to continue being a member of the Church, yet it happens far too early in my opinion, where the child is still heavily under the influence of the parents and could not have learnt enough about religion to make an informed decision, particularly with the Church as ingrained in Primary Schools as they are. Then of course, no one that age wants to talk their way out of confirmation money.

Confirmation should happen after you are 18 as far as I'm concerned, following proper education on the matter. I don't honestly think I knew what confirmation really was, or cared as my sister was a year older than me so I saw what she raked in that day.

I bought a Playstation. Yay God!

mehfesto

I'm my niece's Godfather. While I don't agree with any of it, any excuse to walk around with masteasers in my gums, spouting "You come to me on this the day of my daughter's wedding", is alright with me.

TwoShedsJackson

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I couldn't refuse, I feel it'd be a huge show of disrespect. I'll just have to suck it up and go through with the motions.

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of your family relationships but you can refuse and if your brother has any respect for your (lack of) belief, he should be fine with it, and can get someone else to do it.

By going through with it you're promising to bring up the child in the tradition of the Catholic Church if his parents become unable to, are you actually ok with making a promise like that?

If it's more of an 'honorary' title and you're not expected to carry out the 'raise the child with the Catholic mumbo-jumbo' thing then that's not as much of a decision I suppose.

sensibleken

Yea, I'm even a 'Godparent'. Ha! poor child is fooked!

My sister had twin girls and had them christened catholic the first week and then protestant the second week (her husband is from a stauch presbyterian background but he's athiest too)

The catholic one was funny, general chaos including me shouting 'fúck off!' very loudly at my ma's friend who pinched my arse as i stood up to take a picture.

The protestant one in the north? wow! they had a powerpoint projecting the words onto a screen, the vicar had his arms outstretched speaking in tongues (seriously). Because it was a christening he had a kids story about how harry the hamster and in friends wouldnt allow sally the snake into their halloween party, this included him waving a toy leprechaun at us and doing his best oirish accent.

There was also a quiz where we were asked questions about oil, including 'what oil has a thousand uses?' answer: WD40.

it was probably the weirdest experience of my life and the silly cows after having a boy now so we have to do it all over again!

mikhail

seamus wrote: »

A more interesting argument though is whether most parents in Ireland are baptising their children because they believe that's what's best for the child? I don't think so. The vast majority of answers would boil down to:

- It's tradition, innit?
- My parents would be upset if I didn't
- All his peers will be baptised, I don't want him to feel left out

You forgot
- The local school is Catholic and I have to to get him/her/it in.

Zombrex

liamw wrote: »

I can't bring myself to go to these. I just think it's plain wrong even if people only do it for 'cultural' reasons. Anyone here go along to christenings and not bothered by it?

All my friends who have had Christenings are about as religious as I am, so I wasn't too worried about them indoctrinating their children into Christianity.

Most seemed to be doing as the "done thing" or to please the grand parents.

The actual Christening is a nightmare, screaming kids everywhere.

TwoShedsJackson

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of your family relationships but you can refuse and if your brother has any respect for your (lack of) belief, he should be fine with it, and can get someone else to do it.

By going through with it you're promising to bring up the child in the tradition of the Catholic Church if his parents become unable to, are you actually ok with making a promise like that?

If it's more of an 'honorary' title and you're not expected to carry out the 'raise the child with the Catholic mumbo-jumbo' thing then that's not as much of a decision I suppose.

Oh I know I could refuse, and I would if my brother and his partner were genuinely religious, expecting me to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do. But, as you said, it's more like an honorary title. I'm not expected to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do, which is why I'm ok with it all. My only concern is having to say what some people seem to have to say in the church: I don't like the idea of, well, undermining myself like that, I guess. Proclaiming my belief in God, or anything similar, is not something I'm sure I'll be able to do, if indeed it does arise.

Maybe a couple of drinks that morning might help.

axer

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Oh I know I could refuse, and I would if my brother and his partner were genuinely religious, expecting me to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do. But, as you said, it's more like an honorary title. I'm not expected to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do, which is why I'm ok with it all. My only concern is having to say what some people seem to have to say in the church: I don't like the idea of, well, undermining myself like that, I guess. Proclaiming my belief in God, or anything similar, is not something I'm sure I'll be able to do, if indeed it does arise.

Maybe a couple of drinks that morning might help.

You also have to reject satan and all his works! :eek:

axer

axer wrote: »

You also have to reject satan and all his works! :eek:

That's a step too far. I won't give up my baby-eating ways, not for anybody.

-JammyDodger-

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Oh I know I could refuse, and I would if my brother and his partner were genuinely religious, expecting me to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do. But, as you said, it's more like an honorary title. I'm not expected to do what a Godfather is traditionally meant to do, which is why I'm ok with it all. My only concern is having to say what some people seem to have to say in the church: I don't like the idea of, well, undermining myself like that, I guess. Proclaiming my belief in God, or anything similar, is not something I'm sure I'll be able to do, if indeed it does arise.

Maybe a couple of drinks that morning might help.

It did arise in the last one I was at - the priest was having none of this 'honorary title' business and got them involved in the whole thing.

Standman

liamw wrote: »

What's your point? If you're invited to an event you should go it it no-matter what the event is?

No, my point is if I were to be invited to such a special occasion for people I care about then personally I would be honoured that they thought of inviting me.

Paparazzo

mikhail wrote: »

You forgot
- The local school is Catholic and I have to to get him/her/it in.

That's the main one. It's the reason anyone I know have gotten their child christened. Sickening that you have to do this to get your child into most of our schools. I have a child due in October and the wife wants to get the baby christened for this reason. I don't. Hopefully Ruairi Quinn sorts it out quickly.

Amtmann

*bump*

I wish I had read this thread a few hours ago, when a text came through from some friends (not very close) inviting me to attend the Christening of their new baby.

The invitation was one of those generic, sent-to-many type of texts. I was surprised that they were going through with it, because neither of them are believers, and indeed several of their own family members have even defected.

Now, having formally renounced my own baptism by defecting only a week ago, I thought nothing of quickly replying "thanks very much for the invite Sarah, but I don't set much store in Christenings. Hope you and the baby are doing well!"

...and a few minutes later the trouble started when I was told that my text was "rude". Having reflected on it, it might well have been rude, despite the fact that it wasn't intended to be.

They have all along known my views on religion, so I was surprised at (a) being invited to begin with and (b) their reaction when I said no.

In hindsight, I should probably have offered to attend the after-christening celebration, or should have just attended the whole thing. It would have been easier. But in principle I think it's ridiculous, and I think I would be a hypocrite to attend. I consider religion not just idiotic, but also dangerous at a fundamental level, and I oppose anything that advances it.

However, a utilitarian reading of this unique situation would have compelled me to go, to please the greater number (i.e. my friends). I think I'm a little trigger happy with my atheism sometimes.

loconnor1001

Amtmann wrote: »

*bump*

I wish I had read this thread a few hours ago, when a text came through from some friends (not very close) inviting me to attend the Christening of their new baby.

The invitation was one of those generic, sent-to-many type of texts. I was surprised that they were going through with it, because neither of them are believers, and indeed several of their own family members have even defected.

Now, having formally renounced my own baptism by defecting only a week ago, I thought nothing of quickly replying "thanks very much for the invite Sarah, but I don't set much store in Christenings. Hope you and the baby are doing well!"

...and a few minutes later the trouble started when I was told that my text was "rude". Having reflected on it, it might well have been rude, despite the fact that it wasn't intended to be.

They have all along known my views on religion, so I was surprised at (a) being invited to begin with and (b) their reaction when I said no.

In hindsight, I should probably have offered to attend the after-christening celebration, or should have just attended the whole thing. It would have been easier. But in principle I think it's ridiculous, and I think I would be a hypocrite to attend. I consider religion not just idiotic, but also dangerous at a fundamental level, and I oppose anything that advances it.

However, a utilitarian reading of this unique situation would have compelled me to go, to please the greater number (i.e. my friends). I think I'm a little trigger happy with my atheism sometimes.

When my husbands nephew was christened last year we went to the christening but not the actual mass before hand. We kind of stick to the basics of just weddings of close friends/family and christenings. Funerals we can get away with just going to the funeral home in most cases. Unfortunately sometimes you just have to go to these things to be "seen" and blank off into oblivion while its all happening

MagicMarker

Amtmann wrote: »

*bump*

I wish I had read this thread a few hours ago, when a text came through from some friends (not very close) inviting me to attend the Christening of their new baby.

The invitation was one of those generic, sent-to-many type of texts. I was surprised that they were going through with it, because neither of them are believers, and indeed several of their own family members have even defected.

Now, having formally renounced my own baptism by defecting only a week ago, I thought nothing of quickly replying "thanks very much for the invite Sarah, but I don't set much store in Christenings. Hope you and the baby are doing well!"

...and a few minutes later the trouble started when I was told that my text was "rude". Having reflected on it, it might well have been rude, despite the fact that it wasn't intended to be.

They have all along known my views on religion, so I was surprised at (a) being invited to begin with and (b) their reaction when I said no.

In hindsight, I should probably have offered to attend the after-christening celebration, or should have just attended the whole thing. It would have been easier. But in principle I think it's ridiculous, and I think I would be a hypocrite to attend. I consider religion not just idiotic, but also dangerous at a fundamental level, and I oppose anything that advances it.

However, a utilitarian reading of this unique situation would have compelled me to go, to please the greater number (i.e. my friends). I think I'm a little trigger happy with my atheism sometimes.

You should tell them that they are being rude to real catholics by going through with a sham christening.

I don't get the big deal with christenings! My nieces were christened and I didn't even find out about it until years later! And even if I knew at the time I still wouldn't have went.

magicbastarder

Amtmann wrote: »

...and a few minutes later the trouble started when I was told that my text was "rude". Having reflected on it, it might well have been rude, despite the fact that it wasn't intended to be.

damn right it was rude. you should have come up with some excuse, and picked a better time to discuss your opinions of christenings with them.

Amtmann

magicbastarder wrote: »

damn right it was rude. you should have come up with some excuse, and picked a better time to discuss your opinions of christenings with them.

Thing is, we had discussed these issues in the weeks before the birth, not vis-a-vis their child's christening in particular (they hadn't decided one way or the other at that point), but in terms of my opinions in general. So they knew my opinions beforehand.

joseph brand

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Was at my cousin's christening and was actually really impressed by the priest. he didn't make it a whole Catholic thing but talked about all kinds of Christian religions and their ceremonies and I thought he did it well. He didn't do any "Shoving the religion down our throats" per say

Some priests have changed their tune a little, in light of the amount of people not attending mass. They had it all their own way in the past, (Fire and Brimstone).

I wouldn't be surprised if some churches start having raffles in the middle of mass, or special guest appearances on stage altar, just to get the punters in. DONATIONS DONATIONS!!

Galvasean

joseph brand wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if some churches start having raffles in the middle of mass, or special guest appearances on stage altar, just to get the punters in. DONATIONS DONATIONS!!

The church near me had a 'Blessing of the Pets' ceremony recently. I sh#t you not.

seamus

Galvasean wrote: »

The church near me had a 'Blessing of the Pets' ceremony recently. I sh#t you not.

Animals urinating on the altar? I'd go see that.

Sarky

"HE UNHOLIED THE HOLY WATER!"