Census Questions

gubby

ok I only have a problem with Q H6 it says to mark only one box but I (as I am sure lots of people do) I use oil, coal, and wood and sometimes turf. so which one do I mark????

Tapes

I marked 2 before i noticed that it said mark only 1, Let them go to fùck

junipergreen

And I have no idea when my damn house was built. It's a rented house - why would I know that?

Seth Brundle

junipergreen wrote: »

And I have no idea when my damn house was built. It's a rented house - why would I know that?

Call to about 30 of your neighbours and do a survey. Based on their responses, calculate some kind of statistic and use that!

Simarillion

It's asking you which is your MAIN source of fuel. I'm going to guess and say you use oil to heat your house and that you use wood/coal/turf for fires/stoves/Agas. If that's the case then oil is your main source of fuel.

Still though the questions are pretty poorly phrased.
My father works from home but had no option but to fill out the boxes about what time he left to go to work and how long his journey took, and I had confusion trying to fill in that I don't live at home now but I did this time last year etc. etc.

James Jones

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.

Census.ie states that “The census will give a comprehensive picture of the social and living conditions of our people in 2011. The results are essential tools for effective policy, planning and decision making purposes”. It also claims that “The household form contains questions relating to household characteristics and individuals” yet there is no provision for a father to indicate that he has, or had, children, and so separated, divorced and unmarried fathers, along with widowers and adoptive fathers, will legitimately be excluded in any future policies, plans or decisions.

This will make the Family Law courts appear fair after years of inexcusably mistreating fathers.

Bannasidhe

James Jones wrote: »

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.

Census.ie states that “The census will give a comprehensive picture of the social and living conditions of our people in 2011. The results are essential tools for effective policy, planning and decision making purposes”. It also claims that “The household form contains questions relating to household characteristics and individuals” yet there is no provision for a father to indicate that he has, or had, children, and so separated, divorced and unmarried fathers, along with widowers and adoptive fathers, will legitimately be excluded in any future policies, plans or decisions.

This will make the Family Law courts appear fair after years of inexcusably mistreating fathers.

My understanding of this question was that it was designed to see how many live births there were in the state over the last 5 years - this info is needed to determine how many children will be entering the primary school system, project maternity/ante-natal/post-natal requirements, establish if the population is increasing primarily due to births or immigration, if women are having fewer children then in previous years etc.

As far as I am aware no man has yet to 'give birth'...

While Family Law does discriminate against unmarried fathers a more pertinent way of gathering information on this would have been a separate question which asked men if they had children and what level of access they have to those children: Full, partial,none.

Cookie_Monster

I just left the age of house blank, I don't know or care or want to put in any effort to find out. The enumerator can just read everybody elses from the same block and find out.

Also why is there a rent amount question asked. I entered a private contract with the landlord, why should anyone apart from me and him and our solicitor (if required) know the details of that?

James Jones wrote: »

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.

:rolleyes:
It's for women only because they already know the answer for all men will be zero...

Ste.phen

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Also why is there a rent amount question asked. I entered a private contract with the landlord, why should anyone apart from me and him and our solicitor (if required) know the details of that?

Because how much rent people pay is relevant for many reasons, mostly economic.
Besides, I've already told other parts of the government (Revenue) the same info.

I'm happy that the CSO can't transfer information in/out of other departments, so don't mind giving the info twice.

James Jones

Bannasidhe wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.

My understanding of this question was that it was designed to see how many live births there were in the state over the last 5 years - this info is needed to determine how many children will be entering the primary school system, project maternity/ante-natal/post-natal requirements, establish if the population is increasing primarily due to births or immigration, if women are having fewer children then in previous years etc.

As far as I am aware no man has yet to 'give birth'...

While Family Law does discriminate against unmarried fathers a more pertinent way of gathering information on this would have been a separate question which asked men if they had children and what level of access they have to those children: Full, partial,none.

They could quite easily have worded the question to include fathers with sole custody, widowers as well as adoptive mothers by asking "How many children live with you?"

As far as I am aware no man has yet to 'give birth'...

No need for the sarcasm.

Bannasidhe

James Jones wrote: »

They could quite easily have worded the question to include fathers with sole custody, widowers as well as adoptive mothers by asking "How many children live with you?"

No need for the sarcasm.

This would not have addressed planning for maternity hospitals etc. We are seeing maternity services becoming more and more centralised BUT does this serve needs of pregnant women...

How many children 'live' with you is a separate issue and should have been dealt with in a separate question.

What sarcasm?-Men don't give birth so have no need to access maternity hospitals etc. It is not discrimination to aim a question on giving birth exclusively at women- it is biology.

View

At this point, it has to be appropriate to post this clip from "The Life of Brian". Relevant bit is towards the end.

James Jones

Seems that some seek to go off on a tangent due to their failure to understand the discrimination of asking mothers how many children they gave birth to rather than asking parents how many children they have. Widowers and adoptive mothers also send their kids to school so the question obviously wasn't drafted correctly even though it was successful in airbrushing fathers out of the lives of children.

Mr Porridge

James Jones wrote: »

Seems that some seek to go off on a tangent due to their failure to understand the discrimination of asking mothers how many children they gave birth to rather than asking parents how many children they have. Widowers and adoptive mothers also send their kids to school so the question obviously wasn't drafted correctly even though it was successful in airbrushing fathers out of the loves of children.

I don't think you understand the explaination given above.

Pedro K

Simarillion wrote: »

My father works from home but had no option but to fill out the boxes about what time he left to go to work and how long his journey took, and I had confusion trying to fill in that I don't live at home now but I did this time last year etc. etc.

I had difficulty with that question too as I work part time. I can be in from any time, depending on whether I get a day, evening or night shift. The question said to tick only one box so I just left it blank.

James Jones

Mr Porridge wrote: »

I don't think you understand the explaination given above.

The only explanation was unsourced and incorrect for the following reasons:

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My understanding of this question was that it was designed to see how many live births there were in the state over the last 5 years - this info is needed to determine how many children will be entering the primary school system, project maternity/ante-natal/post-natal requirements, establish if the population is increasing primarily due to births or immigration, if women are having fewer children then in previous years etc.

1. Question 13 did not specify that the live births were in the state or over the last 5 years.
2. Adopted children or those who continue to live with their father subsequent to the death of their mother or separation/divorce still need to go to school.
3. maternity/ante-natal/post-natal requirements are also related to still births and miscarriages
4. Population increase due to births or immigration still require school places.
5. The OFFICIAL explanation is as follows:The answers to question 13 allow an assessment to be made of the factors impacting the fertility rate of women in Ireland, i.e. the extent to which fertility will vary with educational attainment, labour market status etc".

pawrick

If common sense could be bottled and sold...

nuac

Suggest that census should be taken on a Staurday night rather than a Sunday. By Sunday night many have left their local communities to retun totheir studies or work in larger centres. A Sunday census inflates the pop figures in the larger centre to the detriment of the smaller centre.

Later the planners or politicians will claim that the population is growing in the larger centre and is static or falling in the smaller centre, and this justifying less investment in the smaller centre

Grudaire

They could only claim a change if the practice was previously to hold the census on one of the two nights that they would be home.

If people only spend some weekends at home why should they be counted as living there!? The stats will show where Children live, thus provision can be made for schools. Why do country folk seem to have a chip on their shoulders?

Victor

gubby wrote: »

ok I only have a problem with Q H6 it says to mark only one box but I (as I am sure lots of people do) I use oil, coal, and wood and sometimes turf. so which one do I mark????

Rather simple.

Census 2011 wrote:

What is the main type of fuel used by the central heating in your accommodation?

junipergreen wrote: »

And I have no idea when my damn house was built. It's a rented house - why would I know that?

Then estmate it. Post a pic / link to google street view and and we might be able to tell you.

Simarillion wrote: »

It's asking you which is your MAIN source of fuel. I'm going to guess and say you use oil to heat your house and that you use wood/coal/turf for fires/stoves/Agas. If that's the case then oil is your main source of fuel.

Still though the questions are pretty poorly phrased.
My father works from home but had no option but to fill out the boxes about what time he left to go to work and how long his journey took, and I had confusion trying to fill in that I don't live at home now but I did this time last year etc. etc.

but he doesn't journey from home if he works from home. Question 19 takes care of that: http://www.census.ie/The-Census-Form/Each-question-in-detail.109.1.aspx

James Jones wrote: »

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.

Census.ie states that “The census will give a comprehensive picture of the social and living conditions of our people in 2011. The results are essential tools for effective policy, planning and decision making purposes”. It also claims that “The household form contains questions relating to household characteristics and individuals” yet there is no provision for a father to indicate that he has, or had, children, and so separated, divorced and unmarried fathers, along with widowers and adoptive fathers, will legitimately be excluded in any future policies, plans or decisions.

Look at question 4 "What is your relationship to other persons in the household?"


Given today's relaxed moral standards, how can any man, with absolute certainty, count how many children he has fathered?

Shifts in population are largely down to the number of women and the number of children each woman has. Hence to control deer numbers, they cull the females (although the male antlers are more prized) and to maximise dairy production male cattle are culled.

James Jones wrote: »

They could quite easily have worded the question to include fathers with sole custody, widowers as well as adoptive mothers by asking "How many children live with you?"

Surely, in most cases, they can work this out from counting the number of children on the form?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I just left the age of house blank, I don't know or care or want to put in any effort to find out. The enumerator can just read everybody elses from the same block and find out.

Also why is there a rent amount question asked. I entered a private contract with the landlord, why should anyone apart from me and him and our solicitor (if required) know the details of that?

So they government can determine things like "How much are people spending on housing?" and "What percentage of people are renting?" and then make decisions like "Are people spending too much / not enough on their housing needs?"

nuac wrote: »

Suggest that census should be taken on a Staurday night rather than a Sunday. By Sunday night many have left their local communities to retun totheir studies or work in larger centres. A Sunday census inflates the pop figures in the larger centre to the detriment of the smaller centre.

Later the planners or politicians will claim that the population is growing in the larger centre and is static or falling in the smaller centre, and this justifying less investment in the smaller centre

But it would be the same every census. Holding the census on a Sunday, every census, would only show true shifts. Of course, if people spend most of the week in the larger centre, then that is where they should be counted? And what would happen the people who party all night on Satuday and don't come home? :cool:

Pedro K wrote: »

I had difficulty with that question too as I work part time. I can be in from any time, depending on whether I get a day, evening or night shift. The question said to tick only one box so I just left it blank.

What time would you work most frequently? If you can't determine that, perhaps insert the time you last started work.

James Jones

Victor wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

Question 13 “How many children have you given birth to” is for women only. I believe this question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts 2000-2004 as it discriminates against men on the basis of gender, marital status and family status.
Census.ie states that “The census will give a comprehensive picture of the social and living conditions of our people in 2011. The results are essential tools for effective policy, planning and decision making purposes”. It also claims that “The household form contains questions relating to household characteristics and individuals” yet there is no provision for a father to indicate that he has, or had, children, and so separated, divorced and unmarried fathers, along with widowers and adoptive fathers, will legitimately be excluded in any future policies, plans or decisions.

Look at question 4 "What is your relationship to other persons in the household?"
Given today's relaxed moral standards, how can any man, with absolute certainty, count how many children he has fathered? Shifts in population are largely down to the number of women and the number of children each woman has. Hence to control deer numbers, they cull the females (although the male antlers are more prized) and to maximise dairy production male cattle are culled.

Question 4 only applies to people who spend the night in the house with person 1. As it was a Sunday night, most fathers who do not live with their children but see them would have sent them home to their mother by the time the census took place.
As I said, the question is an attempt at social engineering and is designed to whitewash fathers out of the lives of their children, contrary to the Equal Status acts. Imagine if the census actually WAS held on a Saturday night and all the single, separated and divorced mothers had to fill in the form and not include their children?:eek:

Victor wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

They could quite easily have worded the question to include fathers with sole custody, widowers as well as adoptive mothers by asking "How many children live with you?"

Surely, in most cases, they can work this out from counting the number of children on the form?

Yes they could but they could have saved themselves the extra work by asking a non-discriminatory question of everyone, regardless of gender.

nuac

Re Census on Saturday rather than Sunday night

Thanks CListe and Victor for your replies.

typical example I have in mind is someone who spends say four years third level and then comes back to work in home community. Usually they have no commitment to living where they have to go to study - look at the buses and trains home on Thrusday and Friday. Counting them in as residents of the larger centre inflates it's actual population.

I can say this is well appreciated in Galway as I recall at a census some time ago the then UCG set a lot of exams for early Monday morning a census weekend.

It is not a question of chip on shoulder, Cliste. It is a question of balanced regional development.

caseyann

Its ok if you make a mistake they will send it back to you

Ste.phen

nuac wrote: »

Re Census on Saturday rather than Sunday night

Thanks CListe and Victor for your replies.

typical example I have in mind is someone who spends say four years third level and then comes back to work in home community. Usually they have no commitment to living where they have to go to study - look at the buses and trains home on Thrusday and Friday. Counting them in as residents of the larger centre inflates it's actual population.

I can say this is well appreciated in Galway as I recall at a census some time ago the then UCG set a lot of exams for early Monday morning a census weekend.

It is not a question of chip on shoulder, Cliste. It is a question of balanced regional development.

But if someone spends 5 days a week in a city for 4 years, and the census tags them as 'there' in the 5 yearly snapshot, surely that's more accurate than tagging them as being in their home town?
The next and previous censuses would have them in their 'home' town, and the one taken when they were in college has them in the college town.

It doesnt' 'inflate its actual population', those people DO live there, and if they're gone after 4 years, the next census counts the students that came to replace them in the next census, but counts the old batch of students back wherever they've gone since graduating