Gerry Adams offers to talk to dissidents

Wolfe Tone

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has offered himself, or any member of his party, as a mediator in talks with dissident republicans.
Mr Adams called on the legitimate political organisations representing dissidents to say 'stop' to violence.
It comes after thousands of people turned out in Omagh yesterday for a 'Walk of Peace', a week after the murder of Catholic PSNI Constable Ronan Kerr in a car bomb attack.
Yesterday, police investigating the murder were granted an extra five days to question a 33-year-old man arrested on Friday.
Two other men have been detained by detectives investigating the booby trap bomb attack that killed the 25-year-old Catholic officer.
On Friday police were given a further five days to question the other 26-year-old and 40-year-old already in custody.
Dissident republicans opposed to the peace process were blamed for the attack, and the same extremists are believed to be behind a 500lb van bomb police discovered near the border town of Newry on Thursday.
Mr Kerr was leaving his home to start work at Enniskillen police station in Co Fermanagh when he was killed.
Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Adams said those who carried out the attack were not representative of people in Northern Ireland.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0411/kerrr.html

Im in two minds about this myself. On the one hand I think what we have in the north is a political problem which needs a political solution, but the dissidents solution will simply be "Brits out now" rather than SFs "Brits out sometime in the future maybe" and that would simply be the extent of any talks. A waste of time in other words.


However I feel that some of the points groups like éirigi and the 32CSM make need to be addressed, most notably the treatment of republican prisoners, as well as continued harassment by sections of the PSNI. Also the time for diplock courts is long gone.


The oxygen for dissidents is Britain's continued presence in Ireland, however that is not the sole reason and by addressing other gripes they can be further starved of oxygen.


What do you guys think? Should Gerry talk to the dissidents? Should the two governments talk to them? Could maybe get a ceasefire out of it if the dissidents want to talk(I doubt they would want to).

jhegarty

You could have made all those arguments about people who wanted to talk to Gerry 15/20 years ago.

And those talks have turned out well.

KeithAFC

Nope. Will just make them legit by talking to them. The war is over.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Talks would imply there would be some kind of possibility of compromise. What the hell could either side compromise on?

Wolfe Tone

Heres a handy guide on dissident republicans, a who's who. Gave it a brief glance and it seems accurate enough as far as I can tell.

Just so we all know who we are talking about....

http://hubpages.com/hub/Dastardly-Dissadents-or-Genuine-Irish-RepublicansMake-up-your-own-Mind

Yitzhak Rabin

Talking to these groups only legitimises them. They should be recognised for what they are. Sociopathic criminals. You don't hear politicians in the south offering to engage in talks with criminal gangs in Dublin or Limerick, despite them planting pipebombs and murdering each other.

Giving them an air of political fighters is wrong. They are simply delusional thugs. Hopefully people will continue to give information to the PSNI and AGS and they can be fully disarmed and locked up away from society.

Hannibal

Gerry Adams is right in offering to meet these people. They're not dissidents or republicans and anyone describing them as such is being kind. They're intent on mayhem, when the IRA split in 1969 the conditions up the north warrented action and most people who know their history can accept this whether they agree with it or not.
We have a situation up the north now that the British army is gone and the RUC is gone. There's a new police force that represents the WHOLE community and there's a government in place that is elected fairly. Nobody in their right mind can think by planting bombs again it's going to achieve anything it's madness.
The who's who of the RIRA/CIRA leadership is common knowledge throughtout republican circles particularly in Dublin, and most of them can only be described as madmen and clowns who possibly don't know anything about politics.
The GFA took years of negotiating and was well voted for unanimously by people in every part of the island. The provisions for a future united Ireland are in the GFA. We have more cross border contact now than at anytime in the last 90 years since partition and on many levels it operated as one island rather than two states.
The only way the RIRA can garner support is by shooting thugs and drug dealers like in Blanchardstown two weeks ago but fundamentally they're doomed to failure and will only drive a wedge through the communities up north when we should be reconciling and offering the hand of friendship and moving forward.

Wolfe Tone

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Talks would imply there would be some kind of possibility of compromise. What the hell could either side compromise on?

What should they do instead?

Would be retarded to attempt to "crack down" on dissident republicans, would be great propaganda if they arrested/harassed innocent people, black and tans kicking in doors and wrecking homes again etc...

Bottle_of_Smoke

Thinking about it a bit more this is surely nothing but Gerry Adams trying to get a bit of publicity whilst at the same time having a dishonest dig at Éirigi.

He's well aware the militant republican groups see him as a gombeen whos sold out on Irish republicanism for personal gain. So he knows they don't want to talk to him.

He knows he can't offer militant republicans anything they'd accept to stand down without the peace process falling apart, so why bother with talks?

Although I'm not a supporter of éirigi or marxism, grouping them with militant republicans is very sly. They have been clear they do not support armed campaign yet this is not the first time Gerry has done this to them. Last time he was pulled up on it too so its obviously deliberate this time around.

Sinn Fein just aren't in a good place to be criticising militant republicans. They would have defended blowing up Ronan Kerr not so long ago. The PIRA weren't fighting for civil rights, so like suggested, they haven't achieved their aim of Irish independence. The GFA was the provisional movement's way of dressing defeat up as victory.

Until they admit they failed and all those lives lost weren't worth it, they're in no position to be taking the moral highground

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Pardon the pun but get real. They would still be around regardless, they make plenty of money still from drugs and other criminal activities. That kind of thing is much easier to control when you're the UVF instead of a normal criminal gang because of the fear that organisation instills in people.

No. Anyone can set up a criminal gang and have a name for it. The Brigade staff on the UVF, regardless of drugs or not, are still around because of the political and dissident threat. That can't be denied.

If they went away (the dissidents), they would disband completely and if they still wanted to deal in drugs, set up a new group and fully focus on drug dealing.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What should they do instead?

Would be retarded to attempt to "crack down" on dissident republicans, would be great propaganda if they arrested/harassed innocent people, black and tans kicking in doors and wrecking homes again etc...

If I thought that talks could contribute to them giving up their activities I would be with you supporting it.

However, I cannot envision what those talks could achieve, you're well aware of republican's opinions on Sinn Fein.

As for what the police should do, their only option imho is to continue as is. Ensure their investigations are a nuanced balance between finding evidence and ensuring their best efforts are made not to harrass the innocent.

FTA69

Although I'm not a supporter of éirigi or marxism, grouping them with militant republicans is very sly. They have been clear they do not support armed campaign yet this is not the first time Gerry has done this to them. Last time he was pulled up on it too so its obviously deliberate this time around.

He's murder for it. It's a form of felon setting where Adams sees Éirigi as a potential destination for disaffected members of his own party therefore he tries to portray them as akin to mad, gun-wielding lunatice despite them having no connection with any armed group. The IMC also include Éirigi in their reports in an effor to discredit the party. Similarly the red top rags and journalists like that fantasist Paul Williams will also do their best to portray any semblance of radical politics as a sign of impending doom.

KeithAFC

Although I'm not a supporter of éirigi or marxism, grouping them with militant republicans is very sly. They have been clear they do not support armed campaign yet this is not the first time Gerry has done this to them. Last time he was pulled up on it too so its obviously deliberate this time around.

How anyone can buy into the whole 'Oh eirigi don't support the bomb and bullet' nonsense is beyond me. They don't care if a PSNI man gets killed.

Yitzhak Rabin

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Would be retarded to attempt to "crack down" on dissident republicans,

No it wouldn't.

The vast majority in the North are abhorred by the murder of Kerr and want to see the animals that commited the atrocity locked up, as demonstrated by the rally in Omagh.

would be great propaganda if they arrested/harassed innocent people, black and tans kicking in doors and wrecking homes again etc...

:rolleyes:

As much as RIRA would love things like that to happen. Romantic stories of black and tan oppression are long behind us, with only the delusional dinosaurs looking in that direction.

Wolfe Tone

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

If I thought that talks could contribute to them giving up their activities I would be with you supporting it.

However, I cannot envision what those talks could achieve, you're well aware of republican's opinions on Sinn Fein.

As for what the police should do, their only option imho is to continue as is. Ensure their investigations are a nuanced balance between finding evidence and ensuring their best efforts are made not to harrass the innocent.

Fair enough, your right in saying that only the British leaving would end the dissidents campaign. But as we both know the British presence while being the main reason, is not the sole one.

I think that if both governments address other issues, like those in my OP, dissidents can be further marginalized.

Its clear to see that the prisoner situation in particular is great for propaganda and puts many many republicans in a rather uncomfortable position to the extent that many have simply tried to ignore it.


As for talks I think they should be tried, probably wont work but they are worth a shot. Nothing to lose.

FTA69

KeithAFC wrote: »

How anyone can buy into the whole 'Oh eirigi don't support the bomb and bullet' nonsense is beyond me. They don't care if a PSNI man gets killed.

Éirigi don't advocate armed struggle nor do they have any connection with an armed group. Which is more than can be said for serial-liar Gerry Adams.

KeithAFC

FTA69 wrote: »

Éirigi don't advocate armed struggle nor do they have any connection with an armed group. Which is more than can be said for serial-liar Gerry Adams.

Do you actually believe that? Why is it Adams (as much as i hate him) always gets a bigger vote or people vote for him over these other groups?

Wolfe Tone

yekahS wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

The vast majority in the North are abhorred by the murder of Kerr and want to see the animals that commited the atrocity locked up, as demonstrated by the rally in Omagh.

Kicking in loads of peoples doors will only deteriorate the situation imo. People are just starting to trust the PSNI, that will be destroyed if they go on a rampage.

:rolleyes:

I really really hate this smiley.

As much as RIRA would love things like that to happen. Romantic stories of black and tan oppression are long behind us, with only the delusional dinosaurs looking in that direction.

It would only damage the peace process if the PSNI go arresting and interrogating innocent people. Its not that long ago that the RUC did that for the craic. Any sort of crackdown would play into the dissidents hands.

I even read elsewhere that some people want internment introduced, now that is idiotic.

Yitzhak Rabin

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Kicking in loads of peoples doors will only deteriorate the situation imo. People are just starting to trust the PSNI, that will be destroyed if they go on a rampage.

Yes, and as I said, the RIRA are the only ones who believe, hope and want this to happen. The rest of the community has shown their support for the PSNI through the peace marches held over the last week. They want to see the pyschos who did this arrested and taken off the streets.

It would only damage the peace process if the PSNI go arresting and interrogating innocent people. Its not that long ago that the RUC did that for the craic. Any sort of crackdown would play into the dissidents hands.

Like I said, its only the delusional psychos from either side who expect and want that to happen. Most people see the PSNI for what it is, a community police force, and want them to enforce the law and catch criminals.

FTA69

KeithAFC wrote: »

Do you actually believe that?

I've been a member of Éirigi for four odd years, so I think I can safely say that they have no connection to any armed group. That's not what the party is about.

Why is it Adams (as much as i hate him) always gets a bigger vote or people vote for him over these other groups?

Because he is an articulate and popular politician with a large party machine behind him. It doesn't change the fact that, like a lot of politicians, he's extremely dishonest.

Yeah, lets just ignore the last 35 years.

Yeah, great heroes like the Shankill Butchers. Loyalist paramilitarism was and is militarily an utter joke, riddled with degeneracy and gangsterism. And it's hilarious that you're forever pontificating about "terrorism" on this forum while (not so) subtly coming out with statements supportive of groups such as the UVF.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Fair enough, your right in saying that only the British leaving would end the dissidents campaign. But as we both know the British presence while being the main reason, is not the sole one.

I think that if both governments address other issues, like those in my OP, dissidents can be further marginalized.

Its clear to see that the prisoner situation in particular is great for propaganda and puts many many republicans in a rather uncomfortable position to the extent that many have simply tried to ignore it.


As for talks I think they should be tried, probably wont work but they are worth a shot. Nothing to lose.

True the prisoner situation is one that could easily attract more people into their ranks. However, I don't think it is something that could be resolved by talks with militant republicans.

I mean if you think it through, the militant republicans would have to give something in return for the ending of excessive searching of prisoners, what could this be? Furthermore, there are many groups operating and therefore prisoners from many groups. They'd need agreement from all the groups which I'd imagine is next to impossible.

They should therefore just end the excessive seaches, and stop prosecuting people for things that happened before the GFA. As I always say that goes for all, not just republican prisoners.

Wolfe Tone

For once could we talk about the present day?


A "my terrorists where better than your terrorists" contest is a waste of everyones time.

Wolfe Tone

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

True the prisoner situation is one that could easily attract more people into their ranks. However, I don't think it is something that could be resolved by talks with militant republicans.

My understanding is that the prisoners would need/want outside approval before signing up to any agreements? The groups would have have to be approached, indirectly even to try and establish some kind of consensus.

They should therefore just end the excessive seaches, and stop prosecuting people for things that happened before the GFA. As I always say that goes for all, not just republican prisoners.

They should stop it for sure. Its only a matter of time before a prison guard gets killed... I wonder what the reaction would be to that?



http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/dissidents-in-a-chilling-warning-to-prison-staff-we-have-got-your-details-15114270.html#ixzz1Gk17Xlcu

Eliot Rosewater

I have deleted all of the posts from the "my terrorist is better than your terrorist" off-topic tangent, for being off-topic.

My thanks to those who didn't feed the tangent and kept on-topic.

/mod.

dlofnep

Gerry should have probably said nothing. He will only be accused of seeking media attention, despite the fact that he's been a cornerstone of the peace process for years and genuinely wants to see it work.

PeakOutput

The war is over 100% but that clown and brit yes man adams has some kneck saying he is offering talking to them the real republicans.

Sinn Fein do not own the republican name.

I strongly agree the war is over and that a military campaign against the brits would not be sustainable.

The war in my eyes is now global politics .. not 32 counties of ireland.

The war was never won nor lost as the leadership where infiltrated with mcguiness and adams on yes man terms with mi6 ...

In saying all of the above i can still see why the so called dissidents wish to fight on. Some of these people have thrown all of their lives into the struggle .. lost family and loved ones... for what... achieved nothing but Catholic Equal rights..

Thanks

the people who are making these bombs are not republicans and are a disgrace to the idea of republicanism they are militant nationalists there is a massive difference

KeithAFC

Ok, sorry for going off topic in this thread. I suppose it would be better of me to put my view across in a better way on this subject.

If anyone is going to talk to this lot, I would rather it would be Martin Mcguiness. I don't trust Gerry Adams in all honesty. He isn't a trustworthy man. From his denial of being in the IRA to many other incidents.

Martin on the other hand has at least admitted to the obvious and has moved and most people have too in that regard too him. Plus, Martin seems more genuine in his condemnation of these people than Adams imo. He comes across as he really is sickened by the actions of this lot.

But I don't think any dialogue should take place with the RIRA and CIRA and what ever they now call themselves. They need to realise the war is over. People on the island voted for the current situation. The Good Friday Agreement lays it all out. Republicans in general know exactly what the Good Friday Agreement says. This lot though, as wrong as they are regardless could not pick the worst time for any sort of attacks like they are doing now.

People in general just want to know if they will keep their job next week, can they pay off the mortgage, can they put food on the table and afford it if they have a small or big family. The last thing on most peoples minds in general is the national question. The national question was answered 10-12 years ago with the Good Friday Agreement.

All these groups talking about 32 county movement and the lot, should really just pack it in. They are utterly pointless groups and offer nothing. They know the situation. No matter of small protesting on the street or lack of condemnation is going to do anything to the situation in Northern Ireland.

The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain in the Union. Equality is far better now, most people just want peace and the national question in all honesty is just off the cards. These groups and the people who have joined them just sound like they are either really bored or utterly deluded. Or perhaps they just can't accept that they didn't get what they wanted, a United Ireland over 30+ years of conflict.

People who say they aren't republicans are wrong, they are republicans. They just can't see the reality. They have been brought up with this romantic notion of the IRA and 'The Brits'. The mentality is rather warped. People who support this lot actually supported the killing of a murder of a PSNI officer, who was a Catholic and the pure aim of his killing was the sole purpose he was a Catholic. People who said sectarianism is dying completely in our society are very much wrong. That is the perfect example of sectarianism.

It is actually worrying times and I don't want to see a reaction from the loyalist community but condemnation can only be good to a certain degree. We need to do something about it and get these people locked up.

Pat D. Almighty

yekahS wrote: »

Talking to these groups only legitimises them. They should be recognised for what they are. Sociopathic criminals. You don't hear politicians in the south offering to engage in talks with criminal gangs in Dublin or Limerick, despite them planting pipebombs and murdering each other.

Giving them an air of political fighters is wrong. They are simply delusional thugs. Hopefully people will continue to give information to the PSNI and AGS and they can be fully disarmed and locked up away from society.

Well, drug dealers/criminal gangs have no political goals. They're just capitalistic scum who will kill anyone who gets in their way of becoming rich.
At least the dissidents have, or claim to have, a political goal that a lot of people agree with. The goal is achievable, their methods are unsupported though.
Of course they should get a chance to talk. A lot of Thatcher-eqsue dismissal being aired here. For shame.

COYW

dlofnep wrote: »

Gerry should have probably said nothing. He will only be accused of seeking media attention

Well, those who accuse are correct. Gerry burnt his political bridges with NI when he ran and was elected to the Dail. Surely, he should be giving his full and undivided attention to TD role and representing the people who voted him in.

dlofnep

COYW wrote: »

Surely, he should be giving his full and undivided attention to TD role and representing the people who voted him in.

His role is to the people of Ireland. Working on maintaining the peace process is to the benefit of the people of Ireland.

I have no doubt that the people who voted Gerry in would most welcome any assistance to the ongoing threats to peace in the north.

MysticalRain

I'm all for Adams talking to dissidents if it might have some positive effect. It's worth a shot I suppose.

FUNKY LOVER

KeithAFC wrote: »

Ok, sorry for going off topic in this thread. I suppose it would be better of me to put my view across in a better way on this subject.

If anyone is going to talk to this lot, I would rather it would be Martin Mcguiness. I don't trust Gerry Adams in all honesty. He isn't a trustworthy man. From his denial of being in the IRA to many other incidents.

Martin on the other hand has at least admitted to the obvious and has moved and most people have too in that regard too him. Plus, Martin seems more genuine in his condemnation of these people than Adams imo. He comes across as he really is sickened by the actions of this lot.

But I don't think any dialogue should take place with the RIRA and CIRA and what ever they now call themselves. They need to realise the war is over. People on the island voted for the current situation. The Good Friday Agreement lays it all out. Republicans in general know exactly what the Good Friday Agreement says. This lot though, as wrong as they are regardless could not pick the worst time for any sort of attacks like they are doing now.

People in general just want to know if they will keep their job next week, can they pay off the mortgage, can they put food on the table and afford it if they have a small or big family. The last thing on most peoples minds in general is the national question. The national question was answered 10-12 years ago with the Good Friday Agreement.

All these groups talking about 32 county movement and the lot, should really just pack it in. They are utterly pointless groups and offer nothing. They know the situation. No matter of small protesting on the street or lack of condemnation is going to do anything to the situation in Northern Ireland.

The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain in the Union. Equality is far better now, most people just want peace and the national question in all honesty is just off the cards. These groups and the people who have joined them just sound like they are either really bored or utterly deluded. Or perhaps they just can't accept that they didn't get what they wanted, a United Ireland over 30+ years of conflict.

People who say they aren't republicans are wrong, they are republicans. They just can't see the reality. They have been brought up with this romantic notion of the IRA and 'The Brits'. The mentality is rather warped. People who support this lot actually supported the killing of a murder of a PSNI officer, who was a Catholic and the pure aim of his killing was the sole purpose he was a Catholic. People who said sectarianism is dying completely in our society are very much wrong. That is the perfect example of sectarianism.

It is actually worrying times and I don't want to see a reaction from the loyalist community but condemnation can only be good to a certain degree. We need to do something about it and get these people locked up.

Ireland unfree shall never be at peace etc etc;)

But seriously youre making some astonishing accusations here and pulling facts from thin air.

youre stopping just short of saying you want loyalist retaliation for this.

Scofflaw

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

Ireland unfree shall never be at peace etc etc;)

But seriously youre making some astonishing accusations here and pulling facts from thin air.

youre stopping just short of saying you want loyalist retaliation for this.

How about you don't put words in other people's mouths?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Well, drug dealers/criminal gangs have no political goals. They're just capitalistic scum who will kill anyone who gets in their way of becoming rich.
At least the dissidents have, or claim to have, a political goal that a lot of people agree with. The goal is achievable, their methods are unsupported though.
Of course they should get a chance to talk. A lot of Thatcher-eqsue dismissal being aired here. For shame.

Lots of us had a "political goal" of getting rid of FF, but if we had murdered one of them even I would have found that unacceptable, and I doubt that anyone would have come to a prison to have a chat with me about my blinkered and extreme methods of forcing change against the will of the people.

liamwhite

Most of the Real Ira today is made up with young people that were in nappy's throughout the troubles, and are now trying to recreate the past by trying to resurrect the troubles that are long dead.

personally i think the only REAL war that can be fought is the war on drug dealers and anti-social thugs, because lets face it! Young people a lot younger than me have the grip on this country.

I know people that are afraid to go for a drink because they see it as too dangerous.

Im going to say it, and i will get slated for it!

What this country needs is for the Real Ira to target drug dealers and just shoot them dead.

gangs and anybody that steps out of line with anti social behaviour to be beaten to a pulp!

Thats what we need, we don't need them blowing up and shooting innocent working people that are no threat to us, they need to do it to the thugs and scum bags that make peoples lives misery in this country on a daily basis!

I know you will call the Real Ira thugs ect ect, but instead of letting them think they still have a cause, can we not divert there cause a little bit and let them know that were not happy with what they are doing now, but we would be very happy if they cleaned up these filthy streets that were once safe streets to walk on!

Right, thats me done ive a half ounce here i have to go flog and an old lady ive to mug down the road! busy day ahead of me!

Scofflaw

liamwhite wrote: »

Most of the Real Ira today is made up with young people that were in nappy's throughout the troubles, and are now trying to recreate the past by trying to resurrect the troubles that are long dead.

personally i think the only REAL war that can be fought is the war on drug dealers and anti-social thugs, because lets face it! Young people a lot younger than me have the grip on this country.

I know people that are afraid to go for a drink because they see it as too dangerous.

Im going to say it, and i will get slated for it!

What this country needs is for the Real Ira to target drug dealers and just shoot them dead.

gangs and anybody that steps out of line with anti social behaviour to be beaten to a pulp!

Thats what we need, we don't need them blowing up and shooting innocent working people that are no threat to us, they need to do it to the thugs and scum bags that make peoples lives misery in this country on a daily basis!

I know you will call the Real Ira thugs ect ect, but instead of letting them think they still have a cause, can we not divert there cause a little bit and let them know that were not happy with what they are doing now, but we would be very happy if they cleaned up these filthy streets that were once safe streets to walk on!

Right, thats me done ive a half ounce here i have to go flog and an old lady ive to mug down the road! busy day ahead of me!

Allow me to assist your entrepreneurial efforts in the leisure and service industries by banning you for 24 hours for egregious use of "scumbags" and incitement to violence.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Wolfe Tone

COYW wrote: »

Well, those who accuse are correct. Gerry burnt his political bridges with NI when he ran and was elected to the Dail. Surely, he should be giving his full and undivided attention to TD role and representing the people who voted him in.

This is daft, focus solely on the constituency and you are a gombeen, focus on national issues like Gerry has done and he is still wrong.

What do you want from your elected representatives? I voted for Gerry and I am very happy with his performance so far.

Wolfe Tone

liamwhite wrote: »

Most of the Real Ira today is made up with young people that were in nappy's throughout the troubles, and are now trying to recreate the past by trying to resurrect the troubles that are long dead.

personally i think the only REAL war that can be fought is the war on drug dealers and anti-social thugs, because lets face it! Young people a lot younger than me have the grip on this country.

I know people that are afraid to go for a drink because they see it as too dangerous.

Im going to say it, and i will get slated for it!

What this country needs is for the Real Ira to target drug dealers and just shoot them dead.

gangs and anybody that steps out of line with anti social behaviour to be beaten to a pulp!

Thats what we need, we don't need them blowing up and shooting innocent working people that are no threat to us, they need to do it to the thugs and scum bags that make peoples lives misery in this country on a daily basis!

I know you will call the Real Ira thugs ect ect, but instead of letting them think they still have a cause, can we not divert there cause a little bit and let them know that were not happy with what they are doing now, but we would be very happy if they cleaned up these filthy streets that were once safe streets to walk on!

Right, thats me done ive a half ounce here i have to go flog and an old lady ive to mug down the road! busy day ahead of me!

Militant republicans actually have been targeting drug dealers for the past while. And anti social people, as well as a couple of persistent criminals if I remember correctly. All to try and build support.

cardwizzard

Personnally I think it's fair play of Adams to offer this. To try and bring the dissidents to the talking table, instead of burying his head in the sand and let the shootings/bombings continue. What has he got to lose except close minded people having a personal attack. And that's my point, it is only for personal reasons that people don't support this. If we look at the bigger picture I can't see a down side.

Some on here say it will give them publicity and make them legimate in a way. I do understand this point and it is well made. However the alternative is cops shot at and bombed and killed/injured and fear in the community, or a decent island for us all to live in. Wasn't that long ago when people were horrified that John Hume was talking to Adams.:eek:

Pauleta

You can try and get the likes of the RIRA and whoever else onside to the peace process all you like but once they are onside there will be a new dissident group and then after they come into the peace process there will be another dissident group. There will always be people who want to use violence. The peace process is set and democratically approved of by the overwelming majority of the North and the Republic. These dissidents do not believe in democracy so unless they want to act in a democratic manner they should be treated like criminals. If Gerry Adams meets with these criminals and does not report what he knows to the Gardai then he should resign from The Dail.

Wolfe Tone

Pauleta wrote: »

You can try and get the likes of the RIRA and whoever else onside to the peace process all you like but once they are onside there will be a new dissident group and then after they come into the peace process there will be another dissident group. There will always be people who want to use violence. The peace process is set and democratically approved of by the overwelming majority of the North and the Republic. These dissidents do not believe in democracy so unless they want to act in a democratic manner they should be treated like criminals. If Gerry Adams meets with these criminals and does not report what he knows to the Gardai then he should resign from The Dail.

So what do we do then? Just leave it?

He would meet with representatives. Like people met with him back in the day. He was even taken out of Long Kesh and flown to England for talks.

Pauleta

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So what do we do then? Just leave it?

He would meet with representatives. Like people met with him back in the day. He was even taken out of Long Kesh and flown to England for talks.

I think we should continue to foil them at every opportunity. Nearly every bomb attempt is foiled or they mess it up. They come accross as half arsed idiots. I dont take them seriously enough to have talks with them. Good point about the representatives. I didnt think that through but i want to know who these representatives are and i want them arrested after any meeting to find out who these terrorists are.

cardwizzard

Pauleta wrote: »

I think we should continue to foil them at every opportunity. Nearly every bomb attempt is foiled or they mess it up. They come accross as half arsed idiots. I dont take them seriously enough to have talks with them. Good point about the representatives. I didnt think that through but i want to know who these representatives are and i want them arrested after any meeting to find out who these terrorists are.

They might come across as idiots, but they are very dangerous, as is evident recently. So when exactly would you take them serious, how many people have to be killed or injured. If they killed a Garda i'm pretty sure that you may have different views. Plus every time they mess a bomb up, they will learn from it and probably recitify it for the future.

In general what harm can talking to these people do. The Brits talked to Sinn Fein for years prior to the first ceasefire in 94. My point is why not talk to them?

Denerick

These people are impossible to reason with. Clearly they don't care about the democratic aspirations of the Irish people or their utter revulsion towards fascist murder and mayhem, which these lunatics excell at.

The only way to stop these people is to either lock them up or kill them. Its a depressing reality but no amount of 'talks' will ever talk them down, they are addicted to murder like a junkie is to heroin.

Lets not aggrandise these cowards. They are petty criminals who have been given a kind of nobility by a political ideology this nation still embraces. In any other country they would be involved in gang wars or drug feuds.

Denerick

cardwizzard wrote: »

In general what harm can talking to these people do. The Brits talked to Sinn Fein for years prior to the first ceasefire in 94. My point is why not talk to them?

Talks lend legitimacy and the fig leaf of forgiveness. They murdered a young policeman in cold blood. They continuously try to murder people. They should face the full rigour of the law and be treated as like any common criminal.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

These people are impossible to reason with. Clearly they don't care about the democratic aspirations of the Irish people or their utter revulsion towards fascist murder and mayhem, which these lunatics excell at.

The only way to stop these people is to either lock them up or kill them. Its a depressing reality but no amount of 'talks' will ever talk them down, they are addicted to murder like a junkie is to heroin.

Lets not aggrandise these cowards. They are petty criminals who have been given a kind of nobility by a political ideology this nation still embraces. In any other country they would be involved in gang wars or drug feuds.

Denerick when I saw you posted I just knew what it would say, it would simply blame republicanism for this. Why does republicanism exist?


I don't think they are addicted to murder, they don't feel the GFA will work, and know no other way to go about things other than through violence.

Denerick wrote: »

Talks lend legitimacy and the fig leaf of forgiveness. They murdered a young policeman in cold blood. They continuously try to murder people. They should face the full rigour of the law and be treated as like any common criminal.

That hasn't really worked so far has it?

Denerick

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Denerick when I saw you posted I just knew what it would say, it would simply blame republicanism for this. Why does republicanism exist?


I don't think they are addicted to murder, they don't feel the GFA will work, and know no other way to go about things other than through violence.

There you go again, making these people out to be principled, if wrongheaded. Not knowing how to live through the consent of fellow citizens is not an excuse. If they are so primitive of mind that they don't know how to operate without violence then it merely reinforces the point that they are glorified criminals and murderers who cloak themselves with a respectable Republican veneer.

That hasn't really worked so far has it?

Well it has, actually. Countless plots and attempts at murder have been nipped in the bud, bombmakers arrested (Including a neighbour of mine), leading dissidents put behind bars. An isolated murder does not a campaign make. Ireland is for once, united. Staunch Presbyterians find temselves at Catholic masses in solidarity with their fellow Irishmen. This is an unprecedented moment in modern Irish history. If the dissidents have achieved anything, they have at least increased the resolve of the Irish people to defeat murder and mayhem.

maccored

Talking is always good, and the 'dissidents' (dissident from what?) wont just disappear. Find out what the issues are and try and resolve them peacefully.

KeithAFC

maccored wrote: »

Talking is always good, and the 'dissidents' (dissident from what?) wont just disappear. Find out what the issues are and try and resolve them peacefully.

I don't see what anyone in politics now could offer them. They don't seem to want anything which is realistic.

Denerick

But we know what the issues are and we know how to resolve them peacefully. Stop making these people out to be drifting idealists. They have every opportunity to participate in democratic politics but choose not to. Whatever war or struggle happened in Northern Ireland is over, these guys are an anachronism. We deal with them by imprisoning them and preventing them harming citizens. This is what you do with murderers and criminals, you don't make them out to be freedom fighters or heroes, you deal with them according to the law, they get their day in court, and then you wave them off as they are led to their cell. This is how you deal with murderers.

Yitzhak Rabin

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Denerick when I saw you posted I just knew what it would say, it would simply blame republicanism for this. Why does republicanism exist?


I don't think they are addicted to murder, they don't feel the GFA will work, and know no other way to go about things other than through violence.


That hasn't really worked so far has it?

Its hard to tell from your posts.

Its obvious you don't agree with the dissidents, but do you agree they are murderers, no different than the criminals who commit murder in other countries?