Roadbike Headset troubles

Mr Velo

Hoping someone can help.
Bought a Felt F5 last September. Adjusted the stem spacers initially (2 spacers included), moved one below the stem and one above.

Found the bars to be a bit too low, so recently i re-adjusted to have both spacers above the stem. How and ever, since then i have play in front when pulling front brakes.... bike rocks back and forth. Headset nut is tightened as far as it can go - stem bolts are tightened fine.

I have tried to re-adjust so many times at this point and i just can't get the play to go away.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Could it be that i need to replace one of the spacers for a bigger one?

Any help greatly appreciated.

kona

Mr Velo wrote: »

Hoping someone can help.
Bought a Felt F5 last September. Adjusted the stem spacers initially (2 spacers included), moved one below the stem and one above.

Found the bars to be a bit too low, so recently i re-adjusted to have both spacers above the stem. How and ever, since then i have play in front when pulling front brakes.... bike rocks back and forth. Headset nut is tightened as far as it can go - stem bolts are tightened fine.

I have tried to re-adjust so many times at this point and i just can't get the play to go away.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Could it be that i need to replace one of the spacers for a bigger one?

Any help greatly appreciated.

First take off the top cap and see it there is 1-3mm gap between stem and fork steerer(bit with the star nut in). If not you need to add a spacer, If the gap is large remove a spacer.

There is a thrust washer under all the spacers, its a plastic ring that compresses and holds the top race in, make sure this is seated right. If all that fails, pull the headset apart, load it up with grease and reassemble.

victorcarrera

Mr Velo wrote: »

Found the bars to be a bit too low, so recently i re-adjusted to have both spacers above the stem.

Which sets the bars lower ?

Assuming you introduced the play by moving the spacers.
Did you load the bearings properly, first by tightening the top cap bolt and then tightening the stem pinch bolts.
Next time also ensure that the star nut or steerer bung hasn't slipped.
5 to 10 mm from the top of the steerer is normal.
If you overtighten a stem and score a carbon steerer you will have to position the stem on a good part of the steerer to maintain the load on the bearings, this will mean either moving or getting different size spacers.
If you don't have a torque wrench a handy way of checking the correct load on the bearings is when the spacers below the stem are just tight enough that they can't be twisted by hand.

Mr Velo

victorcarrera wrote: »

Which sets the bars lower ?

Assuming you introduced the play by moving the spacers.
Did you load the bearings properly, first by tightening the top cap bolt and then tightening the stem pinch bolts.
Next time also ensure that the star nut or steerer bung hasn't slipped.
5 to 10 mm from the top of the steerer is normal.
If you overtighten a stem and score a carbon steerer you will have to position the stem on a good part of the steerer to maintain the load on the bearings, this will mean either moving or getting different size spacers.
If you don't have a torque wrench a handy way of checking the correct load on the bearings is when the spacers below the stem are just tight enough that they can't be twisted by hand.

Thanks Victor,

Can you explain what the steerer bung is?
I'm not very au fait with all this stuff - but last time when i was loosening the top bolt - it felt harder to release.... reason being the whole piece which it screws into came up also.... i put it back down and tightened it as best i could... but something is obviously wrong....

kona

Mr Velo wrote: »

Thanks Victor,

Can you explain what the steerer bung is?
I'm not very au fait with all this stuff - but last time when i was loosening the top bolt - it felt harder to release.... reason being the whole piece which it screws into came up also.... i put it back down and tightened it as best i could... but something is obviously wrong....

Well theres your problem, e3 part and a 5 min job in a bike shop. cost ya bout e15 all in.

The star fangled nut (or Bung) is a press fit, if you pulled it out its useless.

victorcarrera

Mr Velo wrote: »

Thanks Victor,

Can you explain what the steerer bung is?
I'm not very au fait with all this stuff - but last time when i was loosening the top bolt - it felt harder to release.... reason being the whole piece which it screws into came up also.... i put it back down and tightened it as best i could... but something is obviously wrong....

From your description I think you have a carbon steerer which is supposed to have a cylindrical insert positioned approx 5mm from the top of the steerer.
Although there are many different types a common set up would be as follows.
Remove the top cap bolt.
Now get a larger allen key and remove the insert/bung.
Inspect and ensure you know how it works.
Re insert to the proper height and tighten it so that it doesn't move when you tighten the top cap.

It is very important to get this right for obvious reasons. If in doubt about it take it to a competent person.

lescol

This Planet X bung would be typical. Tighten the centre using an Allen key, the top of the bung should be a few mm below the top of your stem or spacer, whichever is on top. Screw down the top cap to take out play in the headset, then straighten bars and tighten the stem.

DirkVoodoo

kona wrote: »

Well theres your problem, e3 part and a 5 min job in a bike shop. cost ya bout e15 all in.

The star fangled nut (or Bung) is a press fit, if you pulled it out its useless.

I'm guessing a Felt F5 has a carbon steerer, in which case it will be an expander plug and not a star nut.

Mr Velo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I'm guessing a Felt F5 has a carbon steerer, in which case it will be an expander plug and not a star nut.

Correct - it looks almost exactly like what lescol has posted below. This has come out on me - had trouble getting it back in. It's hard to tighten it properly when it's down. I'm thinking i may be as well off to take this to a professional to get sorted. Went for a 47km spin yesterday, didn't notice the knocking etc, but it's still bugging me to think that somethings not right and i may be doing long term damage.

lescol wrote: »

This Planet X bung would be typical. Tighten the centre using an Allen key, the top of the bung should be a few mm below the top of your stem or spacer, whichever is on top. Screw down the top cap to take out play in the headset, then straighten bars and tighten the stem.

Mr Velo

victorcarrera wrote: »

Which sets the bars lower ?

You are correct.... i meant to say that i have the 2 spacers BELOW the stem... making the bars higher.
Both spacers are 7.5mm FSA

Mr Velo

victorcarrera wrote: »

F
Remove the top cap bolt.
Now get a larger allen key and remove the insert/bung.
Inspect and ensure you know how it works.
Re insert to the proper height and tighten it so that it doesn't move when you tighten the top cap.

How do i get this tightened properly so that it doesnt slip / move? I was only finger tightening it (as hard as i could)... but what tool could i use to ensure it's tighter? Sorry for the stupid questions... but i'm not very technical when it comes to stuff like this.

kona

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I'm guessing a Felt F5 has a carbon steerer, in which case it will be an expander plug and not a star nut.

Right you are

harley mom

my son bought a felt f5 a couple of weeks ago, and the headset was loose yesterday, so he tried to tighten it to no avail, I took advice from a very good bike mechanic, he took a look at it and said it was a fault with the bungs in these felt bikes, a design flaw, so the remedy is to use an epoxy resin to glue the bung in place. some bike manufacturers actually supply it with bikes with carbon steerers. my advice is to bring it to your local bike shop and get them to sort it, it is too easy to damage it if you dont know exactly what you are doing. the only problem with the epoxy solution is you wont be able to cut the steerer at a later date. hope you get it fixed soon

kona

harley mom wrote: »

my son bought a felt f5 a couple of weeks ago, and the headset was loose yesterday, so he tried to tighten it to no avail, I took advice from a very good bike mechanic, he took a look at it and said it was a fault with the bungs in these felt bikes, a design flaw, so the remedy is to use an epoxy resin to glue the bung in place. some bike manufacturers actually supply it with bikes with carbon steerers. my advice is to bring it to your local bike shop and get them to sort it, it is too easy to damage it if you dont know exactly what you are doing. the only problem with the epoxy solution is you wont be able to cut the steerer at a later date. hope you get it fixed soon

This is something I would flat out refuse to do, If its a manufacturing fault, you go use the warranty. :eek: Hes right its is very easy to damage it!

blorg

You could get a new bung that works if that was the issue, they are not expensive (~€10-15.)

Mr Velo

blorg wrote: »

You could get a new bung that works if that was the issue, they are not expensive (~€10-15.)

Thanks Blorg.

Looking at the bung - i don't think it's damaged TBH - but then again i'm not qualified to tell whether it is or not.
My question is - how can i ensure that the bung is tightened enough in the steering column - so that the top bolt won't be loosening it (and it coming up every time i loosen the top bolt?

lescol

Is the bung revolving inside the steerer as you try to tighten it? Take off the stem and spacers, insert the bung so that the lip sits on the steerer tube, you should be able to grip the top enough with your hand while you tighten the centre bolt with an Allen key until it stops revolving. I don't think there is a correct torque for it, it just has to be tight enough to allow you to load the bearings with the top cap bolt. Set the bung, fit the spacers, stem, tighten so that you have no play in the forks then tighten the stem bolts. If you remove the top cap at this stage you can see if it has been pulled up, if not you should be OK.

Mr Velo

lescol wrote: »

Is the bung revolving inside the steerer as you try to tighten it? Take off the stem and spacers, insert the bung so that the lip sits on the steerer tube, you should be able to grip the top enough with your hand while you tighten the centre bolt with an Allen key until it stops revolving. I don't think there is a correct torque for it, it just has to be tight enough to allow you to load the bearings with the top cap bolt. Set the bung, fit the spacers, stem, tighten so that you have no play in the forks then tighten the stem bolts. If you remove the top cap at this stage you can see if it has been pulled up, if not you should be OK.

I can't tell - don't think it is - but i'm not sure if the bung is in the correct spot in the steering column.

When the bung was out - i put it back into the column and tried hand tightening it as best i could - but i wasn't sure as to where it should have been seeing as it came up with the cap bolt initially.

I'll take a proper look this evening and will take some snaps if i can't get it sorted.

TinyExplosions

Mr Velo wrote: »

I can't tell - don't think it is - but i'm not sure if the bung is in the correct spot in the steering column.

When the bung was out - i put it back into the column and tried hand tightening it as best i could - but i wasn't sure as to where it should have been seeing as it came up with the cap bolt initially.

I'll take a proper look this evening and will take some snaps if i can't get it sorted.

That could be your problem, put the bung in the tube, and use an allen key to get it good and snug before you put the top cap on and tighten it again, and you should be ok

Mr Velo

TinyExplosions wrote: »

That could be your problem, put the bung in the tube, and use an allen key to get it good and snug before you put the top cap on and tighten it again, and you should be ok

Will give it a shot this evening and let you know.

Mr Velo

Thanks all for your help.
Got it sorted this evening.

The Bung is a strange beast - no allen key at the top of it - just a thread (for the top nut going down. It expanded by threading in the "top cap" for the bung. It turns out that i needed to put this top cap flush with the top of the steer post - this left approx 3mm gap when i put the stem back on.

Appreciate all of you taking the time to reply on this today. A happy Boardsie here now with a steady front fork