Irishman joining the royal navy.

LMG

Hey, as everyone knows there is a certain stigma attached to irishmen joining the british army. I am just wondering if this would be as prevalent in irishmen joining the royal navy as the argument is mainly based around how could an irishman possibly join the BA when they have committed such terrible atrocities such as bloody sunday and the likes which we are all too aware of. Obviously the royal navy haven't committed the crimes in this country that the BA have, so if you joined the royal navy would there be less need for keeping this quiet or would people group the army, navy and airforce all together and you would still be labelled a traitor, un - patriotic, west-brit etc. Obviously I know there will always be people who will still be against this but for the most part would joinging the RN be less controversial than joining the BA. I would have nationalist views but I would like a career in the navy and before anyone says it, I tried to join the Irish navy and got to the final stage and failed my eye test so that's why I ask.

p1akuw47h5r3it

There was just a thread asking more or less the same questions, it was about the RIR.

Generally most people don't mind 9myself included0 but the odd few do. but ure it doesnt really matter what they think imo

Dogwatch

Go for it. Dont take any notice of the naysayers here or anywhere else,if it is what you want to do.

If soldiering is your thing but are worried about joining the BA, dont forget the Royal Marines, who had a very good record in NI.

Talk to the careers office in NI and they will advise you what is required.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Manic Moran

But! But! Those sassnach bastards* shelled the GPO and all the glorious heroes inside!

You are correct, though, that there is usually less stigma attached to it, but it seems to me that the people who would actively give flak over joining the BA would do the same about joining the RN just on principle.

*Disregarding the fact that there were probably a bunch of Irishmen on board.

NTM

LondonIrish90

If stigma or history are of any importance to you, then I don't think it is for you.

All are a part of the British Armed Forces which protect the crown and its interests.

Utrinque Paratus

Dogwatch wrote: »

Go for it. Dont take any notice of the naysayers here or anywhere else,if it is what you want to do.

If soldiering is your thing but are worried about joining the BA, dont forget the Royal Marines, who had a very good record in NI.

Talk to the careers office in NI and they will advise you what is required.

Good luck whatever you decide.

The Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, due to them not giving the IRA a break 24/7.

RMD

People don't see 3 different wings of the armed forces, they all see them as 1. That said though, I wouldn't take the opinion of others into account, if people want to support you that's great, if people want to berate you pay no attention to them. You can still be a nationalist and join the BAF, it doesn't affect your political views after all.

effluent

Interestingly you don't have to swear an oath to Queen if you go to join the Royal Navy, though I douth the common man would know that.

Some people would have a stigma against anyone joining the British army or and branch of it, but based on their veiws they would be against any military unit for that matter.

OP, it's your life. If you want to be part of the Navy then go for it. If you were to turn down the opportunity based on what other people think you would probably regret it later in your life. You tried to get into our Navy and got turned away, it's not your fault that our defence forces recruit by a quota system. However would you fail this eye test in the RN? If I were you I would grab this oppurtunity with both hands.

All the very best to you what ever path you take.

RMD

effluent wrote: »

Interestingly you don't have to swear an oath to Queen if you go to join the Royal Navy, though I douth the common man would know that.

Do you know does this also account for the Royal Marines? I know they're part of the Navy but just want to clarify. The Oath is the one thing I don't want to have to do in joining up to be quite honest, other than that no qualms at all.

LondonIrish90

RMD wrote: »

Do you know does this also account for the Royal Marines? I know they're part of the Navy but just want to clarify. The Oath is the one thing I don't want to have to do in joining up to be quite honest, other than that no qualms at all.

Yes, you have to for the Marines. Exactly the same oath as for the Army.

Manic Moran

effluent wrote: »

Interestingly you don't have to swear an oath to Queen if you go to join the Royal Navy, though I douth the common man would know that.

I seem to recall there was something to do with a large-scale revolt/mutiny against the Crown some time ago. As a result, the correct way to start a speech when in the presence of Royal Navy officers is "Ladies, Gentlemen, and Officers of the Royal Navy" because RN officers aren't considered gentlemen.

It's kindof odd, though, because the RN is still 'Royal', but the Army lost the 'Royal' title after its little bit of uncertain loyalty.

NTM

Steyr

RMD wrote: »

Do you know does this also account for the Royal Marines? I know they're part of the Navy but just want to clarify. The Oath is the one thing I don't want to have to do in joining up to be quite honest, other than that no qualms at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)#Armed_forces

Armed forces

All persons enlisting in the British Army and the Royal Marines are required by the Army Act 1955 to attest to the following oath or equivalent affirmation:

I... swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the generals and officers set over me. So help me God.




The same oath is made by recruits to the Royal Air Force under the Air Force Act 1955, with the substitution of the words "air officers" for "generals". No oath of allegiance is sworn by members of the Royal Navy, which is not maintained under an Act of Parliament but by the royal prerogative, or by Royal Marines officers, who unlike their Army counterparts are not enlisted before they are commissioned.

Fratton Fred

Manic Moran wrote: »

I seem to recall there was something to do with a large-scale revolt/mutiny against the Crown some time ago. As a result, the correct way to start a speech when in the presence of Royal Navy officers is "Ladies, Gentlemen, and Officers of the Royal Navy" because RN officers aren't considered gentlemen.

It's kindof odd, though, because the RN is still 'Royal', but the Army lost the 'Royal' title after its little bit of uncertain loyalty.

NTM

Unlike the army, being a gentleman was not enough to acquire rank in the navy. The navy often (unbelievably) promoted on ability rather than status, so whereas army officers were always gentleman, navy officers were not.

PatsytheNazi

Utrinque Paratus wrote: »

The Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, due to them not giving the IRA a break 24/7.

11 of them certainly got a break from the IRA at Deal barracks in 1989.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8143878.stm

RMD

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

11 of them certainly got a break from the IRA at Deal barracks in 1989.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8143878.stm

The Deal bombing hit the band service, they're not actually Marines per se, their primary role is that of a musician and if they deploy an assistant medic or something similar.

Utrinque Paratus

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

11 of them certainly got a break from the IRA at Deal barracks in 1989.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8143878.stm

This troll is wrecking the forum.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Nationality
You must be of British or dual British nationality, and have lived in the UK for five years.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/careers/entry-requirements/index.htm

I may in the future join the BA, and if I was to would join the RM. However I read the above.

I am just wondering is their any particular reason that people from the Republic cant become officers (unlike the RIR, Para Reg. etc)?? Also is their ever exceptions made?

if I was to join i would have wanted to be an officer!!

RMD

DanDan6592 wrote: »

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/careers/entry-requirements/index.htm

I may in the future join the BA, and if I was to would join the RM. However I read the above.

I am just wondering is their any particular reason that people from the Republic cant become officers (unlike the RIR, Para Reg. etc)?? Also is their ever exceptions made?

if I was to join i would have wanted to be an officer!!

I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning is, I know other areas to like certain officer jobs in the RAF and other RN officer jobs require British / Dual nationality citizenship. The Marines are part of the RN, not the BA and as I've said, the RN has tighter regulations on nationality for officers in certain trades.

Make sure you look into what an officer actually does though before you decide what you want to do, I had all these glamorous theories of what an officer does and then found out the reality, I'm now much happier to join as a regular rank.

cyrusdvirus

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

11 of them certainly got a break from the IRA at Deal barracks in 1989.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8143878.stm

reported for your wind up comments.......again

PatsytheNazi

Dogwatch wrote: »

Go for it. Dont take any notice of the naysayers here or anywhere else,if it is what you want to do.

If soldiering is your thing but are worried about joining the BA, dont forget the Royal Marines, who had a very good record in NI.

Talk to the careers office in NI and they will advise you what is required.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Utrinque Paratus wrote: »

The Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, due to them not giving the IRA a break 24/7.

Utrinque Paratus wrote: »

This troll is wrecking the forum.

If their's anyone trolling/baiting around here pal, it's you and Dogwatch. As the OP stated - " Obviously the royal navy haven't committed the crimes in this country that the BA have, " If I had said teh same you'd accuse me of trolling. As you both know very well the Roayl marines are part of the British army, not the navy. The BA is a completely different organisation to the navy, it's like a guy asking about joining the RAF and Dogwatch posting - don't forget the Parachute regiment who had a very good record in NI.

As for " Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, " , these complaints consisted of everything from shooting unarmed civilians to assault at checkpoints etc But that's the Brits for you, like throwing their weight around, no better whingers in the world when they get it back.

cyrusdvirus

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

If their's anyone trolling/baiting around here pal, it's you and Dogwatch. As you both know very well the Roayl marines are part of the British army, not the navy. The BA is a completely different organisation to the navy, it's like a guy asking about joining the RAF and Dogwatch posting don't forget the Parachute regiment who had a very good record in NI.

As for " Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, " , these complaints consisted of everything from shooting unarmed civilians to assault at checkpoints etc But that's the Brits for you, like throwing their weight around, no better whingers in the world when they get it back.

If the RM are part of the BA, and not the RN then why is their official site under the RN banner?

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/

And why would the RM be different to EVERY other Naval Infantry in the world and not be part of the Naval Arm of the Defence Services?

cyrusdvirus

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Unlike the army, being a gentleman was not enough to acquire rank in the navy. The navy often (unbelievably) promoted on ability rather than status, so whereas army officers were always gentleman, navy officers were not.

Never knew that, always presumed that the senior service were "officers and gentlemen"

PatsytheNazi

gatecrash wrote: »

If the RM are part of the BA, and not the RN then why is their official site under the RN banner?

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/

And why would the RM be different to EVERY other Naval Infantry in the world and not be part of the Naval Arm of the Defence Services?

So if someone wants to be say, a submariner, he should apply to the RM's

cyrusdvirus

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

So if someone wants to be say, a submariner, he should apply to the RM's

Where are you getting that from?

If you look under the RN website there are links to sub headings under that site for the Submarine Service, the Fleet Air Arm (such as it is for the next decade) and the Surface Fleet, as well as the Marines

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/

Dogwatch

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

If their's anyone trolling/baiting around here pal, it's you and Dogwatch. As you both know very well the Roayl marines are part of the British army, not the navy. The BA is a completely different organisation to the navy, it's like a guy asking about joining the RAF and Dogwatch posting - don't forget the Parachute regiment who had a very good record in NI.

As for " Royal Marines had the second most complaints in NI after the Paras, " , these complaints consisted of everything from shooting unarmed civilians to assault at checkpoints etc But that's the Brits for you, like throwing their weight around, no better whingers in the world when they get it back.

I see you have not improved your knowledge of military matters and do not add any useful information to the thread.

whiteonion

LMG wrote: »

Hey, as everyone knows there is a certain stigma attached to irishmen joining the british army. I am just wondering if this would be as prevalent in irishmen joining the royal navy as the argument is mainly based around how could an irishman possibly join the BA when they have committed such terrible atrocities such as bloody sunday and the likes which we are all too aware of. Obviously the royal navy haven't committed the crimes in this country that the BA have, so if you joined the royal navy would there be less need for keeping this quiet or would people group the army, navy and airforce all together and you would still be labelled a traitor, un - patriotic, west-brit etc. Obviously I know there will always be people who will still be against this but for the most part would joinging the RN be less controversial than joining the BA. I would have nationalist views but I would like a career in the navy and before anyone says it, I tried to join the Irish navy and got to the final stage and failed my eye test so that's why I ask.

You're just itching to get to kill some muslims are you?

LondonIrish90

whiteonion wrote: »

You're just itching to get to kill some muslims are you?

He's joining the wrong service if he is. not that basic facts will mean anything to you.

More likely to find himself chasing down drug runners in the Caribbean or pirates off the coast of Somalia should he choose the navy!

cyrusdvirus

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

He's joining the wrong service if he is. not that basic facts will mean anything to you.

More likely to find himself chasing down drug runners in the Caribbean or pirates off the coast of Somalia should he choose the navy!

<sarcasm>
unless he becomes the weps officer on one of the trafalgar class subs that are fitted with tomahawks, then i suppose he could re target one of the missiles to the nearest mosque.

But that might take some time, and would the itch really still be there.... hmmmm..... </sarcasm>

There REALLY is a need for the sarcasm font here!!

RMD

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

If their's anyone trolling/baiting around here pal, it's you and Dogwatch. As the OP stated - " Obviously the royal navy haven't committed the crimes in this country that the BA have, " If I had said teh same you'd accuse me of trolling. As you both know very well the Roayl marines are part of the British army, not the navy. The BA is a completely different organisation to the navy, it's like a guy asking about joining the RAF and Dogwatch posting - don't forget the Parachute regiment who had a very good record in NI.

Patsy infantry doesn't mean army. The Marines are part of the Royal Navy, not the army. By that logic RN air technicians are members of the RAF, not the RN.

Manic Moran

whiteonion wrote: »

You're just itching to get to kill some muslims are you?

Goodbye.

You can come back and play again in a month.

That was an easy one. I'll mull over Patsy's post now.

NTM

Manic Moran

RMD wrote: »

The Deal bombing hit the band service, they're not actually Marines per se, their primary role is that of a musician and if they deploy an assistant medic or something similar.

Mmmm.... Go up to one of them and tell them they're not a real Royal Marine.

I'll be watching from the other side of the street.

NTM

RMD

Manic Moran wrote: »

Mmmm.... Go up to one of them and tell them they're not a real Royal Marine.

I'll be watching from the other side of the street.

NTM

Should have worded my post better. They're not RM Commandos, if the IRA wanted to hit the RM in a "revenge" attack they would have been better off getting one of the 3 Cdo battalions, either way 11 men died that day and plenty more were injured, all members of the RMs.

PeterIanStaker

Manic Moran wrote: »

Mmmm.... Go up to one of them and tell them they're not a real Royal Marine.

I'll be watching from the other side of the street.

NTM

Nurse: How are we going to remove this trombone from RMD, that Marine sure shoved it in very deep

Doctor: I've never seen anything like this . . .

neilled

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

As you both know very well the Roayl marines are part of the British army, not the navy.

Erm.....Fail.

RM's are part of the Royal Navy and have been for hundreds of years much like most other marine formations such as the USMC coming under the department of the Navy despite the fact that they often operate very far from a maritime environment. The fact that both are rather good at what they do means they tend to operate with army formations towards common national military objectives, however they often have different drills, doctrine, equipment and organisation.

RMD

neilled wrote: »

Erm.....Fail.

RM's are part of the Royal Navy and have been for hundreds of years much like most other marine formations such as the USMC coming under the department of the Navy despite the fact that they often operate very far from a maritime environment. The fact that both are rather good at what they do means they tend to operate with army formations towards common national military objectives, however they often have different drills, doctrine, equipment and organisation.

Not to mention completely different training. Enlisted infantry ranks for the army at ITC Catterick (26 weeks, 28 for Paras and Guards), Officers at the RMAS (Sandhurst, 48 weeks) while enlisted RMs train at Lympstone (32 weeks) and RM Officers also train at Lympstone (15 months).

BlastedGlute

I was in the QRL in the BA. Good times. I was born and raised in Cobh county Cork with all of my fathers family in the Irish Navy and Army. If ever there was a politically pressured background it was mine but each to their own. If you want a life of excitement and structure(although you can take both of those statements with a pinch of salt, sometimes its boring and frustrating as can be) then go for it. Do a few years you WILL be a better man for it.

Hope you dont get too politically confused before making your decision.

PARKHEAD67

LMG wrote: »

Hey, as everyone knows there is a certain stigma attached to irishmen joining the british army. I am just wondering if this would be as prevalent in irishmen joining the royal navy as the argument is mainly based around how could an irishman possibly join the BA when they have committed such terrible atrocities such as bloody sunday and the likes which we are all too aware of. Obviously the royal navy haven't committed the crimes in this country that the BA have, so if you joined the royal navy would there be less need for keeping this quiet or would people group the army, navy and airforce all together and you would still be labelled a traitor, un - patriotic, west-brit etc. Obviously I know there will always be people who will still be against this but for the most part would joinging the RN be less controversial than joining the BA. I would have nationalist views but I would like a career in the navy and before anyone says it, I tried to join the Irish navy and got to the final stage and failed my eye test so that's why I ask.

So you failed joining the Irish navy coz of an eye test? And do you reckon the Brits are more lenient??:pac:.Personally I wouldnt dream of joining the oppressors.you have nationalist views?? Hmm.Im not an uber-nationalist or anything but you would be putting yourself in line for a lot of abuse.Im sure your aware of this. My advise-No.

It wasn't me!

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

So you failed joining the Irish navy coz of an eye test? And do you reckon the Brits are more lenient??

They don't have a proscription on surgically corrected vision, as the DF does.

PARKHEAD67

It wasn't me! wrote: »

They don't have a proscription on surgically corrected vision, as the DF does.

So you can be a Braille reader and shoot guns off a British ship?:D. Sounds cool anyway:cool:

brianthelion

You will have to learn how to salute the BUTCHERS APRON,Why would anyone want to join a foreign force that is still occupying part of our country

PARKHEAD67

brianthelion wrote: »

You will have to learn how to salute the BUTCHERS APRON,Why would anyone want to join a foreign force that is still occupying part of our country

This sums it up.I cant believe that any Irishman would even THINK of serving the brits.:(.The amount of people that gave their lives for us..The atrocities they commited werent that long ago.This lads grandparents were probably affected by their brutality.Im no IRA man, but at least Im proud of the people that saved our country back then.

cyrusdvirus

You can't believe that any Irish man would even think of serving the brits, and I can't believe that you would deny the freedom of choice.

You say it's probable that this chaps grandparents were affected by the British forces, I say it's probable that this chaps grandparents would prefer for him to have the right to make his own decisions.

As lance Cpl Ian Malone (RIP) said At the end of the day I am just abroad doing a job. People go on about Irishmen dying for freedom and all that. That's a fair one. They did. But they died to give men like me the freedom to choose what to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Malone


Stop living in the past. Respect the sacrifices that were made, yes, but also respect the fact that those sacrifices allow people to make their own decisions.

he was rejected by the Naval Service, he wants to be a sailor, next closest thing for him to do is join the R.N.

Jonah42

brianthelion wrote: »

You will have to learn how to salute the BUTCHERS APRON,Why would anyone want to join a foreign force that is still occupying part of our country

The majority of people living in the north don't feel as though they are being occupied though. The percentage of catholics in NI that want a United Ireland is lower than you think.

These threads are a bit silly to be honest. If you want to join the royal navy go ahead, no ones going to stop you.

Manic Moran

brianthelion wrote: »

You will have to learn how to salute the BUTCHERS APRON,Why would anyone want to join a foreign force that is still occupying part of our country

Uh-huh. I believe you'll find that the correct title is Her Majesty's Union Flag, though shorter versions of the title are accepted. Here's the thing about military in general, and this forum. This is not the Politics forum. Proper military bearing is required. Though you may not appreciate Ireland's neighbours to the East, they are still a friendly sovereign country. As the symbols of those countries, I will not tolerate disparaging remarks about the Irish Tricolour, Flag of the United States, or the Union Flag amongst others. You're new enough here, you're just getting an infraction.

As for the second part of your statement, here's a link to the Constitution of Ireland.
http://www.constitution.ie/reports/ConstitutionofIreland.pdf
Bearing in mind that 'Nation' and 'Country' are not the same thing.
http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqznationstate.htm, please tell me which part of the country as defined by the Constitution is currently occupied by the UK. (other than the embassy and its grounds).

.Personally I wouldnt dream of joining the oppressors

Being a little milder, this is just a warning for you.

NTM

Jelle1880

I know some people who served alongside the Royal Irish Regiment in Afghanistan and Iraq and it's hardly as if they're seen as 'Those damn paddy's'.

Irish people in the BA get a lot of respect (Probably because it's a bigger step for them than for native Brits), several of them do have Nationalist views I've heard but are able to set them aside.
Most of them see it as just another job (with guns).

RMD

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I know some people who served alongside the Royal Irish Regiment in Afghanistan and Iraq and it's hardly as if they're seen as 'Those damn paddy's'.

Irish people in the BA get a lot of respect (Probably because it's a bigger step for them than for native Brits), several of them do have Nationalist views I've heard but are able to set them aside.
Most of them see it as just another job (with guns).

I'd consider myself a nationalist yet still want to join. I'd say the majority of Irish people's reason for joining isn't serving the Brits obviously, it's the fact so much more is offered than what the Irish army offers. If the Irish army offered the same level of adventure and travel that's where my priorities would be but sadly that just isn't the case. From lads I've talked to in the BAF, Irish lads who can put all this crap aside and join are usually very level-headed and determined lads.