Traffic light just past Bushy Park.

MagicMarker

Anyone familiar with the traffic light that goes red but stays green for buses just past Bushy Park heading into the City Centre?

It's the most pointless and infuriating traffic light ever, it goes red when there are zero buses around and doesn't go green again for about 5 fúcking minutes, all the while you're sitting there on an empty bleedin' road!

LXFlyer

It's not pointless at all.

It is a traffic queue relocator. The whole point is to keep the road ahead is to keep a minimal traffic queue on the narrower stretch of road at Terenure meaning that buses have a relatively clear run when they do come along which is every 2-3 minutes peak and every 5 minutes off-peak.

Clanket

Conor Faulknen said on Matt Cooper's show a few weeks back that the Templeogue Road from those lights down to the next lights at Rathdown motors is the most congested road in Ireland. As in amount of time spent on it. The data was taken from motorists sat navs over a period of time.

I've avoided that road like the plague for years. And so have most people who know how bad it is.

It's a shame because if it moved freely it would be a really handy route into town for an awful lot of people. The only solution I can see to it is to dig a tunnel from about the lights you mention and have the tunnel split in two. One to Harolds Cross, one on to Rathgar.

I wish!

seamus

When they first put this in, I made a complaint to DCC on the basis that it must be a deliberate oversight; the light only goes green for cars for about 30 seconds and then sits green for busses for above 5 minutes, even when there are no busses. DCC said that it was necessary.

Though the busses are regular on that route, the problem is that they get bunched when they hit Templeogue village and there are huge gaps then between busses coming and not coming. They don't realistically come every 2-3 minutes as ixflyer says. A group of busses arrives every 8-10 minutes or so.

There were plans to redesign the traffic plan through Terenure village and insert one-way systems. Though it would cause a headache initially, it appeared to be good for traffic flow. I'm not sure what's happened to those plans.

Get to know the alternative routes to where you're going so that you can bypass Terenure village. For example, if you're going to Rathmines, you can cut in through Rathdown, then through Terenure village from the south side (less traffic) and you can get in to Rathmines through Leinster road.

Tragedy

This traffic light is a lifesaver for buses. While you're sitting there for a few minutes raging at it staying red, you're not likely to be actually losing any time as instead you'd just be sitting at the next set for the same amount of time.

Realistically, this costs motorists no real added time but can save buses 5-15mins.

Going back 5+ years ago, it was common to be sitting on the 15 for 30minutes to get through terenure village. When they redesigned the light sequence, they cut 25mins off my commute.

MagicMarker

I get that this saves time for buses, the fact is I'm going down that road at 7am when there is NO traffic. There's no need for the light to be red at all at this time as there's so few cars that any bus can just filter in to the flow of traffic without hassle.

I also don't mind the light being red IF there's a bloody bus! But when there's none in sight then yes, it IS pointless, it creates traffic not the other way around.

Clanket

Tragedy wrote: »

This traffic light is a lifesaver for buses. While you're sitting there for a few minutes raging at it staying red, you're not likely to be actually losing any time as instead you'd just be sitting at the next set for the same amount of time.

Very true.

ballsymchugh

lxflyer wrote: »

It's not pointless at all.

It is a traffic queue relocator. The whole point is to keep the road ahead is to keep a minimal traffic queue on the narrower stretch of road at Terenure meaning that buses have a relatively clear run when they do come along which is every 2-3 minutes peak and every 5 minutes off-peak.

it's the traffic lights at terenure village that need to be sorted. the lights at the main crossroads aren't green for long enough, so the traffic from terenure road west backs up to the yellow box at rathdown motors. then the templeogue road lights turn green but you can't move as there's no space beyond the box.
if they left those lights green for longer, or had a proper filter for turning left then it'd probably flow easier.

but yep, those lights after bushy park are bloody annoying!

Clanket

MagicMarker wrote: »

the fact is I'm going down that road at 7am when there is NO traffic.

psssstt (Go through it)

seamus

Tragedy wrote: »

Realistically, this costs motorists no real added time but can save buses 5-15mins.

Depends on the time of day/week tbh. There are plenty of times when this stop traffic from moving even though there are no busses approaching and no traffic in Terenure village.

The most obvious solution to this would be an induction loop to detect busses entering the bus lane at the junction of Terenure college & Rathdown. This would activate the bus light for (say) 3 minutes, giving time for the traffic to clear down and make room for the bus. If that's not enough time, then an induction loop at the junction with Our Lady's would be just as good.

This would prevent the farcical situations where people are sitting looking at a clear road and an empty bus lane for 3/4 minutes while traffic needlessy queues up behind them.

MagicMarker

Clanket wrote: »

psssstt (Go through it)

I do if there's no one in front of me. But if there's a queue of cars then I wait because I know as soon as I start to undertake everyone the bloody thing will go green.

For instance this morning as I was approaching it was red and just as I stopped it went green but by the time I got to it it went red again! :mad: I didn't stop though, but I feel sorry for guy who did behind me.

Cookie_Monster

simple solution

place a sensor enough of a distance down the road so that when buses trigger it the traffic will be held long enough to clear for them...

Tragedy

seamus wrote: »

Depends on the time of day/week tbh. There are plenty of times when this stop traffic from moving even though there are no busses approaching and no traffic in Terenure village.

The most obvious solution to this would be an induction loop to detect busses entering the bus lane at the junction of Terenure college & Rathdown. This would activate the bus light for (say) 3 minutes, giving time for the traffic to clear down and make room for the bus. If that's not enough time, then an induction loop at the junction with Our Lady's would be just as good.

This would prevent the farcical situations where people are sitting looking at a clear road and an empty bus lane for 3/4 minutes while traffic needlessy queues up behind them.

Honestly, I've never seen the bus light go when there is zero traffic ahead. I assumed it was linked to the induction loop at the next set of lights and would only trigger if that loop was triggered.

Tragedy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

simple solution

place a sensor enough of a distance down the road so that when buses trigger it the traffic will be held long enough to clear for them...

At relatively busy times that sensor would be on the Firhouse Road.

Clanket

seamus wrote: »

The most obvious solution to this would be an induction loop to detect busses entering the bus lane at the junction of Terenure college & Rathdown. This would activate the bus light for (say) 3 minutes, giving time for the traffic to clear down and make room for the bus. If that's not enough time, then an induction loop at the junction with Our Lady's would be just as good.

This would prevent the farcical situations where people are sitting looking at a clear road and an empty bus lane for 3/4 minutes while traffic needlessy queues up behind them.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

simple solution

place a sensor enough of a distance down the road so that when buses trigger it the traffic will be held long enough to clear for them...

Pfftt. That would be far too easy. You have to wonder exactly what our county councils do be doing with their time and people

seamus

Tragedy wrote: »

Honestly, I've never seen the bus light go when there is zero traffic ahead. I assumed it was linked to the induction loop at the next set of lights and would only trigger if that loop was triggered.

Any time before 7.30am on weekdays, early on Saturdays and on Bank Holidays, it causes major traffic problems because it stops traffic for no real reason and terenure village is usually clear

For anyone who's interested, a joint SDCC/DCC study into a traffic management plan is below. It was ultimately shot down because of the number of politicians in the area who didn't like the idea of having go the long way around to get where they're going.
http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=80&Itemid=62

Would have been nice though.

Tragedy

seamus wrote: »

Any time before 7.30am on weekdays, early on Saturdays and on Bank Holidays, it causes major traffic problems because it stops traffic for no real reason and terenure village is usually clear

For anyone who's interested, a joint SDCC/DCC study into a traffic management plan is below. It was ultimately shot down because of the number of politicians in the area who didn't like the idea of having go the long way around to get where they're going.
http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=80&Itemid=62

Would have been nice though.

Ah, that would be why so

Never have reason to be on that road before ~8am or on weekends, if driving to town I always go Rathfarnham Road or Lower Kimmage Road. Never seen the advantage to Templeogue Road with current traffic levels.

LXFlyer

ballsymchugh wrote: »

it's the traffic lights at terenure village that need to be sorted. the lights at the main crossroads aren't green for long enough, so the traffic from terenure road west backs up to the yellow box at rathdown motors. then the templeogue road lights turn green but you can't move as there's no space beyond the box.
if they left those lights green for longer, or had a proper filter for turning left then it'd probably flow easier.

but yep, those lights after bushy park are bloody annoying!

The main problem is that there are three roads going towards the city that all have large traffic flows, two of which merge into one.

It is not as easy as simply leaving one traffic light green for longer, that just makes the problem on the other two routes worse than it is already.

It is a nightmare junction.

LXFlyer

seamus wrote: »

Depends on the time of day/week tbh. There are plenty of times when this stop traffic from moving even though there are no busses approaching and no traffic in Terenure village.

The most obvious solution to this would be an induction loop to detect busses entering the bus lane at the junction of Terenure college & Rathdown. This would activate the bus light for (say) 3 minutes, giving time for the traffic to clear down and make room for the bus. If that's not enough time, then an induction loop at the junction with Our Lady's would be just as good.

This would prevent the farcical situations where people are sitting looking at a clear road and an empty bus lane for 3/4 minutes while traffic needlessy queues up behind them.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

simple solution

place a sensor enough of a distance down the road so that when buses trigger it the traffic will be held long enough to clear for them...

Tragedy wrote: »

At relatively busy times that sensor would be on the Firhouse Road.

Tragedy is spot on, the whole point is that the traffic queue between Rathdown Motors and the end of the bus lane on Templeogue Road is kept to a minimum in order to speed up bus journey times. For that distance to clear completely would require sensors far before Terenure College (which is about 60-90 seconds away for a bus), and they would probably have to be well before Templeogue Bridge on each route, which would make it rather pointless. It takes far longer than 3 minutes to clear it.

The entire point of that set of lights is to reduce the bus journey times. On average between 0730 and 0830 there are 25-30 buses passing that point, and off-peak during the day about 15 buses per hour between the 15/b/e/f, 49/a, 65/b and 74. That is potentially 2,400 people per hour at peak times.

I would agree that before 0700 they really ought not to be restricting traffic, but after that and until 1900 they are needed.