Looking for new U8s team...?

Fittle

Rather than drag up my old thread about my 8yr old losing every match, the brief story is (at that time) they had lost 19 matches out of 19. I got some great advice on that thread (as I always do on the soccer forum) so just thought I'd update.

Well, it's 22 games played now. And 22 games lost.
And he's leaving his team.
He's had enough.

And while there's part of me wants to encourage him to 'stick with it, no matter WHAT the score', there's another part of me thinks that he's right. He didn't even want to go training last night, which is the first time he's chosen not to go since he joined the team last year. Training has become a bit of a joke lately, with a random dad stepping in most weeks, so he's not impressed with that either.

So I'm actively looking for another team for him, because his love for football is still there and he still desperately wants to play...but he's had enough of this team and maybe not even the fact that they've lost every single game this season - but the coaches attitude is so laid back about the constant losses...did this happen to any of you when you were younger??- because while he wants to leave, he's a bit disappointed in himself, that he won't stick it out.

I picked this team because it was close to home - the training time suited me after work etc. I don't want to make a similar mistake next time and sign him up to a team that has little, if any organisation...any tips and what I should look out for this time, if anything?

gimmick

This is Saipan all over again.

ShiverinEskimo

I'll let the Master speak on this one:

Xavi wrote:

-”Some youth academies worry about winning, we worry about education. You see a kid who lifts his head up, who plays the pass first time, pum, and you think, ‘Yep, he’ll do.’ Bring him in, coach him.”

-”Other teams win and they’re happy, but it’s not the same. The identity is lacking. The result is an impostor in football. You can do things really, really well – last year we were better than Inter Milan – but did not win. There’s something greater than the result, more lasting. A legacy. Inter won the Champions League but no one talks about them.”

Stop worrying about winning. It's under-8s. Teach him to play first, winning will come naturally later.

ozymandias10

Fittle wrote: »

And he's leaving his team.
He's had enough.

Think of the Children..say it aint so

Xavi6

If he's part of the problem and the team are that shit he won't just stroll into a good side that's winning.

gimmick

Not sure if you are willing to travel this far, but this team is known for its great training regimen, coaches and facilities.

Also, Watergrasshill United U9s played and won a match against Avondale U9s at half time of the Cork City LOI match last week. Again, if the attitude is "got boots, will travel" this team could be right up your alley.

dreamers75

You do know he cant actually play for his new team until next season.

Best stay where he is, its only his and possibly others 1st years of football.

That_Guy

Maybe the team needs a new coach.

Xavi6

That_Guy wrote: »

Maybe the team needs a new coach.

We should do it!

Make our very own Ebbsfleet. Fittle can video training and matches, the mods can fire up threads and polls for who plays, and they can act as the Boardeaux youth academy.

That_Guy

Xavi6 wrote: »

We should do it!

Make our very own Ebbsfleet. Fittle can video training and matches, the mods can fire up threads and polls for who plays, and they can act as the Boardeaux youth academy.

There you go. Sorted.

Just buy him an Xbox and FIFA OP and tell him to learn his trade from there. That's as far as my management skills go anyway.

gimmick

Get Des in there to kick some ass and burn some dead wood.

Fittle

Thanks for replies and to answer a few.

Yes, I know he can't play with another team until next season but I'm having a look around and trying to figure out where to put him.

And I agree that obviously he's part of the problem - I never said he was Messi Jnr - and I've told him he won't stroll onto another team and start winning.

I am also not 'teaching' him about winning but seriously - seriously - if you lost 22 matches out of 22, would you not be p*ssed off too!!

And I agree that we need a new coach, but that's not something I can arrange.

And gimmicks post is thread of the month for me:D

SlickRic

it's been said already, but the best thing you can do is not let 'winning' be what it's all about at 8 years of age.

and of course the coaches should be laid back about losing...the kids are 8!

the coaches have the right mentality.

they're hardly going to get the Fergie hairdryer out!

SlickRic

Xavi6 wrote: »

We should do it!

Make our very own Ebbsfleet. Fittle can video training and matches, the mods can fire up threads and polls for who plays, and they can act as the Boardeaux youth academy.

i quit.

Fittle

SlickRic wrote: »

and of course the coaches should be laid back about losing...the kids are 8! they have the right mentality.

they're hardly going to get the Fergie hairdryer out!

I get your point. But if you saw our coach. He's like a cross between Jim Royle and Fr. Jack...everything is 'grand' and 'don't be worryin'....There's no 'C'mon lads, we can win this one!!!' Not an ounce of enthusiasm.

Dont be at yourself

Great life lesson for the kid, anyway. If you're struggling, just quit.

With 22 games played, he may as well stick it out until the end of the season. He'll have a better chance of switching teams then also.

Fittle

Fittle wrote: »

And while there's part of me wants to encourage him to 'stick with it, no matter WHAT the score', there's another part of me thinks that he's right.

He's 8. Teach him that life isn't always handed to you on a plate and sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation. He should be just trying to enjoy his football at this age anyway.

Fittle wrote: »

He didn't even want to go training last night, which is the first time he's chosen not to go since he joined the team last year. Training has become a bit of a joke lately, with a random dad stepping in most weeks, so he's not impressed with that either.

At least he is getting training. Trust me, it could be a lot worse.

Again though, do you want to encourage him to be a quitter when the going gets tough?

Fittle wrote: »

So I'm actively looking for another team for him, because his love for football is still there and he still desperately wants to play...but he's had enough of this team and maybe not even the fact that they've lost every single game this season - but the coaches attitude is so laid back about the constant losses...did this happen to any of you when you were younger??- because while he wants to leave, he's a bit disappointed in himself, that he won't stick it out.

He is at the formative age in terms of what attitudes he will carry into teenage years/adulthood. A little hardship to toughen him up is a good thing. I'd prefer my "hardship" to be a sh*te football team than an entire year of bullies ganging up on him, or him failing his leaving cert because he decided to quit study because it wasn't going his way......... It's actually quite a safe way for him to learn this lesson. His love of the game should supercede all of these things anyway.

My 2cs.

Frisbee

Fittle wrote: »

Well, it's 22 games played now. And 22 games lost.
And he's leaving his team.
He's I've had enough.

Judging by your carry on in the last thread I have a feeling it's much more likely that the above is the case instead of what you originally posted.

Fittle

Deleted User wrote: »

He's 8. Teach him that life isn't always handed to you on a plate and sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation. He should be just trying to enjoy his football at this age anyway.



At least he is getting training. Trust me, it could be a lot worse.

Again though, do you want to encourage him to be a quitter when the going gets tough?



He is at the formative age in terms of what attitudes he will carry into teenage years/adulthood. A little hardship to toughen him up is a good thing. I'd prefer my "hardship" to be a sh*te football team than an entire year of bullies ganging up on him, or him failing his leaving cert because he decided to quit study because it wasn't going his way......... It's actually quite a safe way for him to learn this lesson. His love of the game should supercede all of these things anyway.

My 2cs.

With respect, he knows life isn't handed to him on a plate. And he's not a quitter.

I think leaving him on a team that he wants to leave, because they have lost 22 matches out of 22, is teaching him that it's ok not to be a winner. He already gets bullied/slagged every sunday for losing another match and he's had enough. That's not being a quitter. That's just being fed-up with his team.

Fittle

Frisbee wrote: »

Judging by your carry on in the last thread I have a feeling it's much more likely that the above is the case instead of what you originally posted.

My carry-on:eek: Are you my da?

SlickRic

Fittle wrote: »

That's just being fed-up with his team.

i have to ask...honestly, how good is he?!

does he deserve to be on a 'better' team?

because if he does, then ok, i think he should keep going with this one, but there's at least an argument for him going on a team that is 'his level'.

but if that's his level, then, well, to put it mildly, he won't get picked for a better team.

Fittle

SlickRic wrote: »

i have to ask...honestly, how good is he?!

does he deserve to be on a 'better' team?

because if he does, then ok, i think he should keep going with this one, but there's at least an argument for him going on a team that is 'his level'.

but if that's his level, then, well, to put it mildly, he won't get picked for a better team.

I've said before that he's not great! It's not that he thinks he's better than any of the other boys on the team, because obviously, he's not.

That's what I'm looking for - another team at his 'level' - I'm not looking to send him to Barca:rolleyes:

I know his level - I'm not trying to get him onto a team above his level because that would defeat the purpose of course!

What I'm looking for is a team with half-decent organisation - a team that actually trains kids - a team that doesn't have a different coach/dad for every training session and a team that would at least TRY to get the lads to believe they can win, rather than giving them a defeatist attitude at 8!

Xavi6

Name and shame the club

gimmick

Well would he prefer be playing for a poor team or not even getting to tog off for a good one then?

Fittle

Fittle wrote: »

With respect, he knows life isn't handed to him on a plate. And he's not a quitter.

I think leaving him on a team that he wants to leave, because they have lost 22 matches out of 22, is teaching him that it's ok not to be a winner. He already gets bullied/slagged every sunday for losing another match and he's had enough. That's not being a quitter. That's just being fed-up with his team.

With respect, I can only go by what you have posted. And it sounds like he's quitting. He's not winning so he wants to quit. He's quitting. Dress it up whatever way you want it, but it's right there. I'm sorry but that's the truth. See the season out and then move on, but he's quitting while there are games left. The towel has been thrown in too early.

Again, there's FAR too much focus on the winning. He should be enjoying the games, going out and trying to get on the ball as often as possible and enjoying the experience. Plenty of time to focus on winning down the line. Rome wasn't built in a day. He needs to focus on being a better player before focusing on winning. He's trying to walk before he can run. Tell me this, if you're a rookie tennis player, do you get down about not winning? No. You keep going, learning, and trying to play more to get better. That's not teaching him that it's ok not to be a winner, it's teaching him that winning takes work. Do you think Roger Federer picked up a racket at 8 years old and destroyed all comers?

Also, "He already gets bullied/slagged every sunday for losing another match and he's had enough. That's not being a quitter. That's just being fed-up with his team".... he's part of that team, making him just as responsible. That sentence reeks of bad attitude tbh. And kids give each other stick about football all the time. They'll get teased on Monday because their favourite team lost. Thicker skin is needed to be honest.


From a purely footballing POV this will be good for him. When he gets onto a better team he will cultivate a "never-say-die" attitude IF he has learned from the experience with the right attitude. From my POV if they all decide to focus on winning a game instead of trying to have it easy and move to a "winning" team, they would get more satisfaction from that one win then being on easy street every week. And it's be a better lesson long term.

Quit when the season is over.

Fittle

Fittle wrote: »

What I'm looking for is a team with half-decent organisation - a team that actually trains kids - a team that doesn't have a different coach/dad for every training session and a team that would at least TRY to get the lads to believe they can win, rather than giving them a defeatist attitude at 8!

With respect, under 8s football in Ireland isn't exactly the best funded operation around. I think it's admirable that the dads are actually chipping in and trying to help them. They may not be world class coaches but maybe keep a more open mind and try and learn something.

Those ones that are funded enough to have a good coach willing to give up his time etc, are usually reserved for the more gifted or FAI academies. Welcome to football in Ireland. Unless you have a chunk of change lying around to fund such an endeavour, I suggest you lower the expectations a little! Christ even the Irish national team are training in dodgy facilities!!

ShiverinEskimo

As has been said - I'd rather play football in a poor side than warm the bench in a better side.

Playing is learning at his age and you learn more about yourself by losing than you ever do by winning.

gimmick

In most sophisticated footballing countries, teams do not play for goals and winning or losing until U13 level ish. Holland for example, they play for possesion, learning comfort on the ball and awareness of those around you.

Anything I see over here is 22 kids all running after a ball toward an oversized goal.

flahavaj

If its any consolation, our team of beer bellied rejects just finished bottom of our Astro League, played and lost every single game by a scoreline of no less than 9 goals on each occasion.

Sometimes the losing never stops.

That_Guy

At 8 years old, you should be encouraging him. Ok, he may not be part of the greatest team but he's 8.

He's out getting exercise which is the main thing. Plenty of time to develop his skills and what not.

If you have a problem with the coaching, you should raise your issues with the coaches.

Fittle

Deleted User wrote: »

With respect, I can only go by what you have posted. And it sounds like he's quitting. He's not winning so he wants to quit. He's quitting. Dress it up whatever way you want it, but it's right there. I'm sorry but that's the truth. See the season out and then move on, but he's quitting while there are games left. The towel has been thrown in too early.

Again, there's FAR too much focus on the winning. He should be enjoying the games, going out and trying to get on the ball as often as possible and enjoying the experience. Plenty of time to focus on winning down the line. Rome wasn't built in a day. He needs to focus on being a better player before focusing on winning. He's trying to walk before he can run. Tell me this, if you're a rookie tennis player, do you get down about not winning? No. You keep going, learning, and trying to play more to get better. That's not teaching him that it's ok not to be a winner, it's teaching him that winning takes work. Do you think Roger Federer picked up a racket at 8 years old and destroyed all comers?

Also, "He already gets bullied/slagged every sunday for losing another match and he's had enough. That's not being a quitter. That's just being fed-up with his team".... he's part of that team, making him just as responsible. That sentence reeks of bad attitude tbh. And kids give each other stick about football all the time. They'll get teased on Monday because their favourite team lost. Thicker skin is needed to be honest.


From a purely footballing POV this will be good for him. When he gets onto a better team he will cultivate a "never-say-die" attitude IF he has learned from the experience with the right attitude. From my POV if they all decide to focus on winning a game instead of trying to have it easy and move to a "winning" team, they would get more satisfaction from that one win then being on easy street every week. And it's be a better lesson long term.

Quit when the season is over.

Fair enough - I'll take some of that on board and have another chat with him tonight. Cheers.

UpTheSlashers

I would just like to say: he is EIGHT years old. Id leave him with this team until they win a match. Imagine how the kids will feel when things finally go right for them. Thatll be a serious fcuking buzz for them. Do you really want him to miss out on that? And surely most of his friends are the kids at his current team. What will you achieve by moving. Everyone else on his team is going through the same thing. Its not as if its a single person sport like boxing and hes getting the shit kicked out of him and noone else knows how hes feeling.

Edit: These are the experiences that teach him about loyalty, friendship and perseverance. Whats he gonna do if he/you dont like the next club? Move again? A kid of EIGHT years old should not be moving clubs.

Fittle

Deleted User wrote: »

With respect, under 8s football in Ireland isn't exactly the best funded operation around. I think it's admirable that the dads are actually chipping in and trying to help them. They may not be world class coaches but maybe keep a more open mind and try and learn something.

Those ones that are funded enough to have a good coach willing to give up his time etc, are usually reserved for the more gifted or FAI academies. Welcome to football in Ireland. Unless you have a chunk of change lying around to fund such an endeavour, I suggest you lower the expectations a little! Christ even the Irish national team are training in dodgy facilities!!

Look, I completely admire the dads who chip in, but I've seen the organisation at other clubs and we have none of it! We have often shown up for training and the coach just hasn't arrived without contacting anyone - that's when a dad takes over. But there hasn't always been a dad there, so there's been no training.

I completely disagree that I should lower my expectations - I paid a 160 to this club at the start of the season and pay subs for every match and every training session - the very least that should be expected is that they are trained:rolleyes:

Lowering expectations is something us Irish have a tendancy to do alot of the time - and it gets us nowhere.

Jazzy

could be worse! back in my day we only had this little diddy to motivate us...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjudr5YlzuE

in all seriousness though, there is a cetain camaraderie between your team mates and friends that comes from losing. I was on a crap team as a kid in my last year (u-13's... they needed a goalkeeper and a better one just joined... damn you colin!!) and we'd get hockeyed week in / week out, but there was a good spirit there with us. tell him to keep his head up, learning to do that will make you friends. no one wants to talk to the gloomy guts.

Fittle

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

I would just like to say: he is EIGHT years old. Id leave him with this team until they win a match. Imagine how the kids will feel when things finally go right for them. Thatll be a serious fcuking buzz for them. Do you really want him to miss out on that? And surely most of his friends are the kids at his current team. What will you achieve by moving. Everyone else on his team is going through the same thing. Its not as if its a single person sport like boxing and hes getting the shit kicked out of him and noone else knows how hes feeling.

Edit: These are the experiences that teach him about loyalty, friendship and perseverance. Whats he gonna do if he/you dont like the next club? Move again? A kid of EIGHT years old should not be moving clubs.

He's 9 next week;)

He is learning all about loyalty and friendship and perserverance. That was my original question - do you just stick with the first club you sign for, no matter how shoddy the organisation actually is?

UpTheSlashers

Sorry if this has been covered before but have you brought the issue up with anyone else in the club? Chairman, other coaches, PRO?

That_Guy

Fittle wrote: »

He's 9 next week;)

He is learning all about loyalty and friendship and perserverance. That was my original question - do you just stick with the first club you sign for, no matter how shoddy the organisation actually is?

Shola Ameobi has stuck it out with Newcastle.

I guess that's because nobody else will have him.

Fittle

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Sorry if this has been covered before but have you brought the issue up with anyone else in the club? Chairman, other coaches, PRO?

Afaik, there's no PRO (whatever that is!). I haven't a clue who the chairman is and we train seperately to other teams, so I've rarely seen other coaches. Is that something I could do?

UpTheSlashers

Fittle wrote: »

He's 9 next week;)

He is learning all about loyalty and friendship and perserverance. That was my original question - do you just stick with the first club you sign for, no matter how shoddy the organisation actually is?

In my opinion yes. Valid reasons for moving club would be if a scout/development officer reccomended it, serious social issues (bullying/harrasment), moving home etc. At this age its too young to be moving clubs for the sake of results.

SantryRed

They'll get relegated, he'll win a game next year.

UpTheSlashers

Jazzy wrote: »

in all seriousness though, there is a cetain camaraderie between your team mates and friends that comes from losing. I was on a crap team as a kid in my last year (u-13's... they needed a goalkeeper and a better one just joined... damn you colin!!) and we'd get hockeyed week in / week out, but there was a good spirit there with us. tell him to keep his head up, learning to do that will make you friends. no one wants to talk to the gloomy guts.

This is what Im getting at. Its hard to explain until youve had these experiences himself. Hell look back with his friends in a few years and laugh about it.

Fittle wrote: »

Afaik, there's no PRO (whatever that is!). I haven't a clue who the chairman is and we train seperately to other teams, so I've rarely seen other coaches. Is that something I could do?

Most definitely. I presumed you had already done this. Better that they know why they mysteriously only have 3 or 4 kids registering for Under 9s next season.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

SantryRed wrote: »

They'll get relegated, he'll win a game next year.

Depends on just how bad they are, tbf.

UpTheSlashers

SantryRed wrote: »

They'll get relegated, he'll win a game next year.

Lets hope they dont have sell too many big names to cope with the loss of TV revenue.

Fittle

Fittle wrote: »

Look, I completely admire the dads who chip in, but I've seen the organisation at other clubs and we have none of it! We have often shown up for training and the coach just hasn't arrived without contacting anyone - that's when a dad takes over. But there hasn't always been a dad there, so there's been no training.

Have you proactively tried to remedy this? Or do you just complain about it? Genuine question.

Fittle wrote: »

I completely disagree that I should lower my expectations - I paid a 160 to this club at the start of the season and pay subs for every match and every training session - the very least that should be expected is that they are trained:rolleyes:.

Ok, perhaps I should rephrase this. €160 is likely to cover cutting the grass, repairs and maintenance of nets and goalposts, paint for the pitch and if they have change left over (or if they have a clubhouse) cleaning the clubhouse. You won't get coaches in every week to teach him triangle pattens, tactial training and technique for €160 per player for the year! My point is you're expecting them to turn water into wine! Ireland doesn't have a hugely professional and well funded football infrastructure. The coaches aren't here. The facilities aren't here. The best you can do is send him to an approved summer camp.

Fittle wrote: »

Lowering expectations is something us Irish have a tendancy to do alot of the time - and it gets us nowhere.

Believe me I'm with you on this, but, as I said, funding and facilities mean a certain amount of perspective must be applied. If you want to set REALISTIC expectations, then lower them or pay more. If you want to be the next Richard Williams then emmigrate to Germany, Spain or Holland.

Fittle

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you proactively tried to remedy this? Or do you just complain about it? Genuine question.



Ok, perhaps I should rephrase this. €160 is likely to cover cutting the grass, repairs and maintenance of nets and goalposts, paint for the pitch and if they have change left over (or if they have a clubhouse) cleaning the clubhouse. You won't get coaches in every week to teach him triangle pattens, tactial training and technique for €160 per player for the year! My point is you're expecting them to turn water into wine! Ireland doesn't have a hugely professional and well funded football infrastructure. The coaches aren't here. The facilities aren't here. The best you can do is send him to an approved summer camp.




Believe me I'm with you on this, but, as I said, funding and facilities mean a certain amount of perspective must be applied. If you want to set REALISTIC expectations, then lower them or pay more. If you want to be the next Richard Williams then emmigrate to Germany, Spain or Holland.

Ok, firstly, we have no club house. There is little to 'maintain' other than the pitch itself.
Secondly, I am assuming that at U8s football none of the 'coaches' actually get paid, do they? And the training he's been getting twice a week since last year is a game of football. As I mentioned earlier, there's no 'training' as such - just an hour long match!

SantryRed

Where abouts are you based Fittle?

Fittle

SantryRed wrote: »

Where abouts are you based Fittle?

Quite close to you I imagine..northside Dublin

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I'd love to give managing an under-age team a go actually. Just to see if they could play football Barca style instead of Munster style.

Fittle

Fittle wrote: »

Ok, firstly, we have no club house. There is little to 'maintain' other than the pitch itself.
Secondly, I am assuming that at U8s football none of the 'coaches' actually get paid, do they? And the training he's been getting twice a week since last year is a game of football. As I mentioned earlier, there's no 'training' as such - just an hour long match!

So tell me this then, why do you expect high level coaches (of which there are very few in the country) to coach YOUR sons under 8s team for FREE?

I didn't think there was a clubhouse, just mentioned it on the offchance there was, thought €160 was a steal alright! As I said, pitch maintenance is barely covered for €160 for the year per player. The grass doesn't cut itself. The nets and posts don't repair or buy themselves. The lines don't paint themselves. Etc.

You haven't addressed my point about REALISTIC expectations at all.

You know in most top level clubs a 5 a side is a regular part of training? Match play is training! What do you want them in the gym becoming 8 year old Mr Olympias? Or Dads who don't know what a triangle passing system is wasting the training time trying to train them to do it?

MrKingsley

id have to agree with the majority of posters on here saying that as the kid is only 8, technique and fair play should be priorities for kids of that age.

I think the worst thing to do is to place any sort of emphasis on results.

I currently coach an u-8s, u-9s and u-11s team with the same club. Particularly for the two younger teams I cant stress to them enough that it doesnt matter what the scoreline is. Even in training one or two will be in tears if they 'lose' a practise match. (I dont even keep scores in them).

I have a rule with the teams that they have to pass the ball out of defense. NO TOE BOGS. Now they have conceded a huge amount of goals this season because of it but im not bothered and the kids dont really seem to have a problem with it during games. It means they all get to play more football and i keep saying to them that in 2 years time they will be able to pass and dribble through any team in the league.

Where the problem lies however is with some parents on the sideline. this is in no way directed at the OP by the way. Some of the parents at these games have scared kids stiff (not even their own at times). On a couple of occasions this year two boys said they wouldnt go back onto the pitch because of what a parent was saying to them. I appreciate that it is the parents that help these clubs function however at that age kids must be encouraged to just play for fun and learn the basics. Tactics, positions and last of all winning IMO come afterwards when the kids have decided that it is soccer they want to play

Fittle

MrKingsley wrote: »

id have to agree with the majority of posters on here saying that as the kid is only 8, technique and fair play should be priorities for kids of that age.

I think the worst thing to do is to place any sort of emphasis on results.

I currently coach an u-8s, u-9s and u-11s team with the same club. Particularly for the two younger teams I cant stress to them enough that it doesnt matter what the scoreline is. Even in training one or two will be in tears if they 'lose' a practise match. (I dont even keep scores in them).

I have a rule with the teams that they have to pass the ball out of defense. NO TOE BOGS. Now they have conceded a huge amount of goals this season because of it but im not bothered and the kids dont really seem to have a problem with it during games. It means they all get to play more football and i keep saying to them that in 2 years time they will be able to pass and dribble through any team in the league.

Where the problem lies however is with some parents on the sideline. this is in no way directed at the OP by the way. Some of the parents at these games have scared kids stiff (not even their own at times). On a couple of occasions this year two boys said they wouldnt go back onto the pitch because of what a parent was saying to them. I appreciate that it is the parents that help these clubs function however at that age kids must be encouraged to just play for fun and learn the basics. Tactics, positions and last of all winning IMO come afterwards when the kids have decided that it is soccer they want to play

I'm his mam so I barely open my mouth on the sideline;) but I know that there are parents who do what you're saying.

'I cant stress to them enough that it doesnt matter what the scoreline is'

See, our lads don't get that. They get more of a 'Meh'...I think perhaps we just have a coach who isn't really committed. Thanks for above though, appreciate the advice.