EducoGym - Could it be dangerous?

Couchkitten

Hi All,

I have read bad reviews on boards about this gym but I just want to do if it could have an immediate dangerous effect to your health.

My boyfriend has joined the gym with the aim of putting on 2 stone. They have given him a ridiculous diet consisting of 1lb of meat a day, not enough vegetables, 400g of fish and no carbs whatsoever. He has also been given protein shakes and supplements (Amino energise) and he's been told to take 15 of these tablets a day. He's also been given Cretin.

He keeps telling me that the diet is only this extreme for 2 weeks. But as he is someone who has always been light, never been a big eater and actually already has high cholesterol for his age - do you think that it could do immediate damage to his health?

I know I could be over-reacting but it's such a dramatic change to his diet and I don't approve of any supplements particularly when you have been told to take 15 a day.

If anyone could offer their opinion, I'd be very grateful.

Brian?

Seems a little extreme, I doubt it's dangerous. I wouldn't be any kind of expert mind you.

As for the supplements, protein, creatine and amino acids are nothing to worry about healthwise. They are probably a waste of money though, if he's eating that much meat and a day I seriously doubt he needs protein supplements.

No way would I follow that plan. I eat a pound of meat nearly every day though, so I don't bother with supplements very often. But I eat like that for the last 2 years, not 2 weeks. You can't front load protein or anything so why go that extreme?

robodonkey

The EducoGym seems to like to sell the Powders and potions.
A balanced diet will give you all you need (with a little thought). This sounds like not-a-balanced diet, so in my view would be unsustainable (gains would be lost when "normal operating procedure" would resume).

Creatine is a supplement, supplementing a balanced diet.

Lots of folks use creatine to help faster recovery, but it's not a substitute/panacea.

Point your other half at the forum here - I've been lurking long enough to see good info and experienced advise being dispensed by qualified folks (see the stickies).

Either way, dont burst his bubble, he's got what I'd call "traction" (hard to find sometimes) so maybe steer him gently towards this section of the forums

SanoVitae

Couchkitten wrote: »

He's also been given Cretin.

I believe creatine is the word you're looking for....:D

kapow

No real need to be going on creatine as you say he has just joined the gym. Same with the amino energize. It's not harmful though.

He does want to put on 2 stone however, which he should realize will take some time to happen.

For every kg you want to put on (and keep on) you need to increase protein/ carbohydrate intake by approx 10% for each 1kg.

Lots of meat, plenty of carbs and healthy oils daily.
+
Weights and Aerobic Training will allow him to gain the 2 stone.

Owen_S

Sounds like a stupid nutrition plan from some bro-trainer. Tell him to learn about nutrition, and make his own meal plan. If he is consuming that much meat/fish, protein supplements are simply a waste of money. Creatine isn't even needed for beginners, and I'd almost bet that he was told to do a loading phase(which isn't necessary).

SanoVitae

In fairness, it's likely to be more dangerous to his wallet than his body....

Zamboni

It'll be fairly dangerous to his wallet.

Zamboni

Beaten by SV by a microsecond...

itsallaboutheL

SanoVitae wrote: »

I believe creatine is the word you're looking for....:D

No cretin is educo speak for PT.

Everyone that goes to educo gets their own personal Cretin.

Couchkitten

SanoVitae wrote: »

I believe creatine is the word you're looking for....:D

Yes that was it. Ok thanks guys - I've calmed down a little. I don't think I could burst his bubble but I've certainly been nagging him to death all evening. I just thought he might have a heart attack or something. He's currently sleeping from eating all that food today But I'll be pointing him towards this board tomorrow.

There is good fats included in the diet (avocado and nuts) but I just feel like they have given him the standard diet that they throw to anyone.

After all, why on earth would you tell someone who needs to put on weight that he should eat no carbs (not even good carbs) Just feel that they are completely ripping him off even if he isn't going to drop dead from the diet in a week.

Zamboni

Couchkitten wrote: »

After all, why on earth would you tell someone who needs to put on weight that he should eat no carbs (not even good carbs) Just feel that they are completely ripping him off even if he isn't going to drop dead from the diet in a week.

Educogym don't have a monopoly on eating big.
Your boyfriend can eat all the above without giving them his money.
Actually the amount of money he will give them in over the course of a fortnight would probably pays for a years membership in a Ben Dunne gym.

Couchkitten

Zamboni wrote: »

Educogym don't have a monopoly on eating big.
Your boyfriend can eat all the above without giving them his money.
Actually the amount of money he will give them in over the course of a fortnight would probably pays for a years membership in a Ben Dunne gym.

Grrr - he's in trouble about that so....we're supposed to be saving. He's lucky he's asleep right now. :mad:

metamorphosis

Couchkitten wrote: »

Grrr - he's in trouble about that so....we're supposed to be saving. He's lucky he's asleep right now. :mad:

I like your style. go get him:D

Zamboni

Couchkitten wrote: »

Grrr - he's in trouble about that so....we're supposed to be saving. He's lucky he's asleep right now. :mad:

Go easy on him. He is doing it for you, you lucky lass
I'm guessing he is in Educo Dundrum?
So just kick his ass down to a cheap gym like the Carlisle or UCD.

SanoVitae

If he uses the Time Machine at Educo, he'll be able to get his money back....

Couchkitten

Zamboni wrote: »

Go easy on him. He is doing it for you, you lucky lass
I'm guessing he is in Educo Dundrum?
So just kick his ass down to a cheap gym like the Carlisle or UCD.

Yes, he's in Educo in Dundrum. He's not doing this for me at all, we've been together 10 years and he's always been slim. Nope I was worried about him. But now I'm just mad. It seems like he's been a bit of eejit about all of this. :rolleyes:

rocky

Low carb to put on muscle? That I'd like to see. It's much less efficient, if it even works to a significant degree. Of course, Educo Gym will tell him that for the 2 pounds weight gain, he lost 10 pounds of fat and put on 12 of muscle.

Chancers...

gavtron

ah man...educogym...weight gain...low carb...worries about supplements...i wish hanley was here!!

Zamboni

rocky wrote: »

Low carb to put on muscle? That I'd like to see. It's much less efficient, if it even works to a significant degree.

At the risk of going ot, what do you think is the minium carb requirement to build muscle on a per kilo basis?

Brian?

Zamboni wrote: »

At the risk of going ot, what do you think is the minium carb requirement to build muscle on a per kilo basis?

You need some carbs, I think something lim 1g per pound of bodyfat within 2 hours of training. Depends on the training though.

TommyKnocker

briankeating wrote: »

You need some carbs, I think something lim 1g per pound of bodyfat within 2 hours of training. Depends on the training though.

Should this be body weight instead of body fat??

Brian?

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Should this be body weight instead of body fat??

Ah feck, it should be.

I should have just pasted the link to the sticky Will wrote on pre post workout nutrition anyway.

rocky

Zamboni wrote: »

At the risk of going ot, what do you think is the minium carb requirement to build muscle on a per kilo basis?

Zero . That does not mean it's optimal. for building muscle, these matter:

1) train hard with weights - obviously this suffers if you have close to zero carbs in your system.
2) excess calories - difficult (but not impossible) to get them from protein only, which the OPs diet seems to be. And the amount of good fats is very small in OPs diet. (I disagree about nuts being 'good' fats [except macademias], but that's another story).

This extreme protein based diet is counterproductive, the stress on your liver to produce glucose from protein must be quite high. This is ok for a week or so when attempting to drop fat quickly on a PSMF-type diet, but build muscle on it? No.

So why make it more difficult than it has to be? And pay a sh!tload of money for the privilege?

Zamboni

rocky wrote: »

Zero . That does not mean it's optimal. for building muscle, these matter:

1) train hard with weights - obviously this suffers if you have close to zero carbs in your system.
2) excess calories - difficult (but not impossible) to get them from protein only, which the OPs diet seems to be. And the amount of good fats is very small in OPs diet. (I disagree about nuts being 'good' fats [except macademias], but that's another story).

This extreme protein based diet is counterproductive, the stress on your liver to produce glucose from protein must be quite high. This is ok for a week or so when attempting to drop fat quickly on a PSMF-type diet, but build muscle on it? No.

So why make it more difficult than it has to be? And pay a sh!tload of money for the privilege?

Ah here, you can't say that and not elaborate
Start a thread in nutrition...

rocky

It's a short one really, most nuts are full of PUFA n-6 fats, which are not particularly 'healthy'. They are at best indifferent (when you have a good balance with n-3), or they promote inflamation in greater quantities. Macadamias are mostly MUFAs which are better than PUFAs, but don't go overboard

Don't get me wrong, I have my daily Meridian PB, but I don't eat it for health, only for taste and calories.

If you want healthy fats, go for mostly saturated ones, like coconut, butter, and n-3 in fish (oils) only if you want to balance the n-6. PUFAs are in general quite unstable and susceptible to oxidation.

Zamboni

rocky wrote: »

It's a short one really, most nuts are full of PUFA n-6 fats, which are not particularly 'healthy'. They are at best indifferent (when you have a good balance with n-3), or they promote inflamation in greater quantities. Macadamias are mostly MUFAs which are better than PUFAs, but don't go overboard

Don't get me wrong, I have my daily Meridian PB, but I don't eat it for health, only for taste and calories.

If you want healthy fats, go for mostly saturated ones, like coconut, butter, and n-3 in fish (oils) only if you want to balance the n-6. PUFAs are in general quite unstable and susceptible to oxidation.

Ah cool. I thought you were going to drop some 'nuts are bad' bombshell on me.
I use brazil nuts for calories myself. 50g around 350kcal nyom.

Anyway that Educo Gym. Shocking stuff altogther...

ailow

I joined educogym two weeks ago. after doing the horrific diet for 10 days i had to go back to the doctor where i was told i had extremly low blood pressure and was told to stop the diet immediatley as it was making me sick. i am only getting back to normal health. the people in the gym went mad when i brought in a letter from the doctor i had paid for 3 months membership and they wont refund any of my money. id advise people to stay away from this gym unless you wanna lose weight by starving yourself and being ill

Colm_OReilly

If your BF wants to get big you could buy him a copy of Starting Strength, he could do that. Squat heavy and drink a shedload of milk and he'll be set for weight gain.

Just a thought.

jasonf9ace

he definetely wants some carbs in his diet not for just gaining weight but also for energy keep his body functioning with all the training etc.Something with a low GI like oats pre workout and something high in GI post workout like dextrose or some fruits should do the trick.I dont get what people and all these low carbs fad diets are about pretty crazy really :mad:. Want to add weight eat more.Want to lose weight eat less simple as .

Brian?

jasonf9ace wrote: »

he definetely wants some carbs in his diet not for just gaining weight but also for energy keep his body functioning with all the training etc.Something with a low GI like oats pre workout and something high in GI post workout like dextrose or some fruits should do the trick.I dont get what people and all these low carbs fad diets are about pretty crazy really :mad:. Want to add weight eat more.Want to lose weight eat less simple as .

You don't understand low carb diets, so they must be a fad? I think you need to tip over to the Nutrition Forum and read some of the threads on Atkins

jasonf9ace

briankeating wrote: »

You don't understand low carb diets, so they must be a fad? I think you need to tip over to the Nutrition Forum and read some of the threads on Atkins

Definetely wouldnt be an expert but know enough to make an informed decision to avoid low carb diets. Did some reading up on it already before thank you very much:D.As far as i remember you basically cut out most carbs to bring your body into a state of keto to help you burn up fat storages or something along those lines.What ever happened to the good oul days of simply a good diet and cardio to lose that belly?:D

Brian?

jasonf9ace wrote: »

Definetely wouldnt be an expert but know enough to make an informed decision to avoid low carb diets. Did some reading up on it already before thank you very much:D.As far as i remember you basically cut out most carbs to bring your body into a state of keto to help you burn up fat storages or something along those lines.What ever happened to the good oul days of simply a good diet and cardio to lose that belly?:D

Nothing happened to them. A low carb diet is a good diet. Simple.

jasonf9ace

briankeating wrote: »

Nothing happened to them. A low carb diet is a good diet. Simple.

A good macro like for example 40 protein 40 carbs and 20 fat works fine for me and many others im sure for their goals whatever they may be so i dont see the need for a low carb diet.Easy maths want to gain weight eat more calories than you burn.Want to lose weight burn more calories than you consume.With that said we could argue about it until hell freezes over like im sure many have but i dont see the point as you have your opinion and i have mine and you nor I are gonna change anyones opinions so we should just leave it at that.:D

gavney1

Couchkitten wrote: »

Yes that was it. Ok thanks guys - I've calmed down a little. I don't think I could burst his bubble but I've certainly been nagging him to death all evening. I just thought he might have a heart attack or something. He's currently sleeping from eating all that food today But I'll be pointing him towards this board tomorrow.

There is good fats included in the diet (avocado and nuts) but I just feel like they have given him the standard diet that they throw to anyone.

After all, why on earth would you tell someone who needs to put on weight that he should eat no carbs (not even good carbs) Just feel that they are completely ripping him off even if he isn't going to drop dead from the diet in a week.

don't be too worried about whey/ creatine.

I have a doctor friend who claimed that Whey was bad for me and to be careful - I asked her why? She didn't know, and she didn't even know what Whey was, just that it's not good for you....

This same doctor smokes heavily, binge drinks quite a bit and used to eat takeaways nearly every night.

The diet itself doesn't sound that great, but that's not because there's anything inherently bad about creatine/ whey.
It's probably just not very balanced

Fair play to you though for looking out for you bf's health

jasonf9ace

jasonf9ace wrote: »

A good macro like for example 40 protein 40 carbs and 20 fat works fine for me and many others im sure for their goals whatever they may be so i dont see the need for a low carb diet.Easy maths want to gain weight eat more calories than you burn.Want to lose weight burn more calories than you consume.With that said we could argue about it until hell freezes over like im sure many have but i dont see the point as you have your opinion and i have mine and you nor I are gonna change anyones opinions so we should just leave it at that.:D

The thing is though, that a lot of people who read these threads don't have opinions. They come here with an open mind, looking for advice.

Also, when an opinion has a medical / scientific basis, and another is anecdotal, I personally (as is my right) choose to follow the one with the scientific basis.

Obviously though you are correct when you say Calories in < Calories Out = Weight Loss. For the majority of people it really is that simple. Want to lose a few pounds? Eat less, do more.

Want to keep those pounds off though? Then we start to get into macros of diets.

I have only been taking care of myself properly in the last year, and have made fairly substantial changes to my diet and my lifestyle. Without threads and discussions about macros / calories / links to training schedules / posts about correct form for weight lifting, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that.

Educating yourself is step one
Using the education is step two
Consistence and Perseverance will get you to where you want to go.

gymsoldier

Couchkitten wrote: »

Hi All,

I have read bad reviews on boards about this gym but I just want to do if it could have an immediate dangerous effect to your health.

My boyfriend has joined the gym with the aim of putting on 2 stone. They have given him a ridiculous diet consisting of 1lb of meat a day, not enough vegetables, 400g of fish and no carbs whatsoever. He has also been given protein shakes and supplements (Amino energise) and he's been told to take 15 of these tablets a day. He's also been given Cretin.

He keeps telling me that the diet is only this extreme for 2 weeks. But as he is someone who has always been light, never been a big eater and actually already has high cholesterol for his age - do you think that it could do immediate damage to his health?

I know I could be over-reacting but it's such a dramatic change to his diet and I don't approve of any supplements particularly when you have been told to take 15 a day.

If anyone could offer their opinion, I'd be very grateful.

Just noticed a few things here, what weight is your boyfriend at for him to have to gain two stone.

And, the diet they gave is only for two weeks? Is he expected to have gained two stone after two weeks?

amacachi

gymsoldier wrote: »

Just noticed a few things here, what weight is your boyfriend at for him to have to gain two stone.

And, the diet they gave is only for two weeks? Is he expected to have gained two stone after two weeks?

I would imagine that after two weeks they'll switch the potions that they're selling him to something else, one must be dynamic to consistently make money by what some may think are dubious means.

stevemacirl

Ok, I think it's time to reply. I've read many posts on Educogym over the last while, here and elsewhere, and kept silent but I find if frustrating that there is little or no first person testimony from those who have had a bad experience, or a good experience for that matter, but there is, however, plenty of anecdotal posts along that lines of 'my friend went there' or 'my brother's friend said this' etc.

If I may, I'd like to give my first hand account.

I joined Educogym after a friend died suddenly at the age of 55. He was obese and sedentary. I was 44 when he died and also obese and sedentary. I saw his death as a warning and decided to do something about it.

I have, like so many, tried gym memberships again and again over the years and failed to commit to them, not through lack of interest in myself but through lack of knowledge. Once in the door, membership paid, I was set adrift to do as little or as much as I wanted, nobody motivated, instructed or indeed even noticed whether I was there or not, except when I cancelled my membership; then they noticed.

I joined Educogym on a 6 week trial offer because of the 'personal training' aspect of the gym. I then opted for a 2nd 6 week membership at the conclusion of the first.

Here's how it went.

The gym never once foisted supplements on me, they were on display, their function was explained, but they were not pushed.

I learned a tremendous amount from the trainer, enough that after the 12 week training period I had the confidence do it alone from then on and if I needed to supplement my knowledge, I knew what questions to ask to get the information I needed, whether that was from another trainer or online.

The diet is tough, initially. It is not a requirement that you remain on the strict initial diet, in fact, it is not recommended. The diet altered as the training progressed with the introduction of complex carbs and fruit based carbs after the initial period.

I am no longer a member of educogym and haven't been since August of 2010. Since leaving, I have been able to maintain my weight and have not yoyoed. My exercise regime is minimal, my diet healthy and my fitness good.

I am grateful for what I learned in educogym and for the results I achieved and for the fact that I have continued to live a healthier lifestyle since.

I am not going to post my results here unless asked as I am not here to advertise educogym, just to give a personal account. If anyone asks, I'll tell them.

For what it's worth, you get out of educogym exactly what you put in to it, exactly the same as any other gym. If you put in the effort, you'll get the results, educo-, bendunne-, localhotel- gym or otherwise.

I believe many of the critics are/were like I was, quick to blame the tool and not the craftsman. 'Nah, didn't work for me because it's crap' is probably the single most common excuse for a failure to lose weight; 'Nah, didn't work for me because I didn't put in the effort' is a lot less common.

rocky

stevemacirl wrote: »

I learned a tremendous amount from the trainer, enough that after the 12 week training period I had the confidence do it alone from then on and if I needed to supplement my knowledge, I knew what questions to ask to get the information I needed, whether that was from another trainer or online.

slow learner ?

I am not going to post my results here unless asked as I am not here to advertise educogym, just to give a personal account. If anyone asks, I'll tell them.

Do tell...

stevemacirl

rocky wrote: »

slow learner ?

Now that's not very nice, is it?

boomtown84

stevemacirl wrote: »

Now that's not very nice, is it?

the smileys usually signify a joke mate
eg.educogym is good value for money...:D:P:pac::)

so what were your results as a matter of interest?

powersand

take as much pills and steroids as u can this is how u get BIG i should know cause i take them

Brian?

powersand wrote: »

take as much pills and steroids as u can this is how u get BIG i should know cause i take them

Powersand banned for trolling

Hanley

stevemacirl wrote: »

Now that's not very nice, is it?

Which one were you a member of? The standard and quality of trainer seems to vary quite a bit.

I don't doubt there's at least SOME good trainers under their branding.

stevemacirl

Hanley wrote: »

Which one were you a member of? The standard and quality of trainer seems to vary quite a bit.

I don't doubt there's at least SOME good trainers under their branding.

I was a member of the one in Oranmore. I would have to agree with your presumption that the standard probably varies greatly from one gym to another but as I only attended one, I can only comment on one. The trainers I worked with were by and large good, but of the four, one stood out as being exceptionally focused and thorough and another stood out for having on and off days, like everyone really.

boomtown84 wrote: »

the smileys usually signify a joke mate
eg.educogym is good value for money...:D:P:pac::)

so what were your results as a matter of interest?

I know exactly what the smileys signify, and unfortunately some people think they can excuse themselves by using them even when they intend offense.

At the end of the twelve weeks I had gone from 15st 12lbs to 12st 4lbs. Since then my weight has fluctuated by only a couple of pounds in either direction.

boomtown84

congrats on the weight loss.....you were lucky to find a good trainer.a lot spend a fortune in there and get diddley in return.

stevemacirl

boomtown84 wrote: »

congrats on the weight loss.....you were lucky to find a good trainer.a lot spend a fortune in there and get diddley in return.

Thanks, it was certainly worth the effort.

You may be right, it is expensive, but a lot spend a fortune on other types of gym memberships and also get diddley in return; results are a function of effort.

I just feel that there is far too much hearsay on the subject and not enough fact. The 'he said, she said' commentary is not worth the effort of reading. It is as useful as a journalist saying 'a source said' which is often a euphemism for 'I made the next bit up'.