Hoping to sell

namurt

I know it's a really bad time to sell but current house isn't really big enough anymore so was hoping to sell before things get worse.

Tried to speak to three estate agents, only one of them got back to me. Got an e-mail from them today outlining what's involved and how much they think the house might be worth. I thought I was being fairly realistic in my expectations/hopes but am really disappointed by what they've suggested. Just wondering what to do now:
Is there any point trying for higher than they've suggested?
Should I try a few more estate agents to see if they actually want my business and are more positive about what the house might go for?
Or should I really just give up altogether?

I know the prices advertised online just show what other sellers are looking for but there are places the same as mine advertised for about 40K more than I was hoping for and yet the estate agent suggested another 25K below that.

Any advice?

Senna

A lot of estate agents wont want your house on their books unless you are willing to price it well below what other similar houses are asking. The 65k difference could be too low, too high or spot on the money, at a guess i'd say it one of the latter two. Unless the EA's think they can sell it quickly, then they don't want it and you should remember that offers will always be below your asking (at-least 10%).

What price do you think it could achieve?
€65k difference is nothing on a 800k house, but huge on a 150k house.

the groutch

namurt wrote: »

I know the prices advertised online just show what other sellers are looking for but there are places the same as mine advertised for about 40K more than I was hoping for and yet the estate agent suggested another 25K below that.

Any advice?

lay down the law and tell them to price it at the amount YOU want, or else you're taking your business elsewhere. don't let them bully you into going with a lower asking price just for them to be able to get their commission quicker.

namurt

I was thinking it could be advertised for about 220k and was hoping to get about 200k, but would be able to accept 190k. EA reckons it's worth about 175-185k. Ok so there isn't a huge jump down from 190 to 185, I think it's more the 175 that's worrying me.

the groutch

unless you're in a super-duper hurry to get it sold, 220k is a good starting point, with it being such a buyers market you need to have a decent gap between asking and your absolute minimum

namurt

Thanks. I think I'll have a chat with them tomorrow and see what they think about pricing it as I had hoped.

D3PO

sounds to me like your in denial.

the bottom has fallen out of the market. Im not a fan of EA's as the regulars on here know but if they are saying its worth 175 - 185 and your thinking of pricing at 220k your delusinal in the extreme

my suggestion you faf around for 6 months with your 220k price getting no viewings or offers, having ECB rates probably rise twice by which point your house has probably lost another 8 - 10k in value.

then when you realise your out of kilter with the actual marketm you can go price at 165 - 175k and think why didnt i just look to sell at 185 all those months ago

zac8

I agree with D3PO.

I'm afraid you're falling into the same trap as the majority of sellers. If you find an agent to list it at the price you want then you'll probably end up with no viewings. So in a few months you'll reduce it a bit, maybe 10k off.

Then a while later you'll do the same thing and eventually you'll end up at the price point the current agent is recommending. But then it will be too late as the whole market will also have shifted down.

To sell in this market it must look like a bargain to potential buyers. And even then you still need to factor in a discount.

JoeyJJ

As a potential buyer(me) I think you should have no problem getting an agent to put it on for 220, there are lots of properties in my search criteria sitting on the market idle which are over priced and by not reducing they are getting more and more over valued by the month.

However maybe its a case where your EA is a little low and you should be a 2nd or 3rd opinion however if more say the same and 1 puts says its higher, you should choose carefully or as suggested above your property will be the one potential buyers flick by quickly when rechecking all properties in their search criteria.

There is always the chance that your neighbours daughter etc might be in the market and you get lucky as they want to live beside Mammy and they pay a little over the odds.

mari2222

Maybe you could add an extension, or re-model the house to suit you better? House prices will be dropping until about 2015, which does not matter at all unless you are selling - the house you are buying will also be cheaper, so dont worry about it, but its either sell quickly or stay.:)

DonkyDonk

Sorry, but I think D3P0 & zac8 are correct here.

Your estate agent will put the house out at any price you want but if you haven't sold it in 2-3 weeks it won't sell. Simple as that. Then you'll be left lowering your price anyway. I'd trust their advice in the first place to be honest.

Also, you should be prepared listen to some very humbling offers. It's up to you whether you accept them or not, but it is a buyer's market after all. The ideal scenario is to price low and hope that there are two or more interested parties outbidding each other until you end up with something approaching an acceptable figure. This is only going to happen if your house is attractively priced to begin with.

If you really want to move then you need to be prepared to take the hit and hope to get it back the other end when buying your next property. That's when you're in control! :cool:

Lyn256

Hi Namurt

Read your post and had to reply. I'm sorry to tell you that if you want to sell your house, you are going to have to price it realistically or its not going to sell.
I'm speaking from experience here.
Put my house in Lucan on the market last Aug-spoke to 3 agents and used the agent who, as it turns out guided me with the lowest price (of the three agents-I thought that he was the best sales person)-as a seller I was fully sure that I was going to get my asking price and maybe more (how naive was I)
Anyway, sold the house in 4 weeks at 5% less than asking.
Roll on 6 months later and I'm so glad that I priced and sold the way I did because right now, prices have fallen by a further 10%.
There are other houses in the estate that have come on the market at the same and more than what I sold mine at 6 months ago and guess what-they're NOT selling.
Ask your agent what houses have ACTUALLY sold for in the last 4-6 weeks and price just below that.
Hope that helps

Theboinkmaster

D3PO wrote: »

sounds to me like your in denial.

the bottom has fallen out of the market. Im not a fan of EA's as the regulars on here know but if they are saying its worth 175 - 185 and your thinking of pricing at 220k your delusinal in the extreme

my suggestion you faf around for 6 months with your 220k price getting no viewings or offers, having ECB rates probably rise twice by which point your house has probably lost another 8 - 10k in value.

then when you realise your out of kilter with the actual marketm you can go price at 165 - 175k and think why didnt i just look to sell at 185 all those months ago

Spot on advice - put it on the market for €180k. If it's worth more than that then you'll have plenty of interest and you'll get offers but i suspect you won't.

antiskeptic

namurt wrote: »

I was thinking it could be advertised for about 220k and was hoping to get about 200k, but would be able to accept 190k. EA reckons it's worth about 175-185k. Ok so there isn't a huge jump down from 190 to 185, I think it's more the 175 that's worrying me.

Daft/Myhome yesterday reported a ca. 3.5 - 4% price drop for the first quarter of this year. Annualise and you're down 30k by this time next year.

There are many similarities between the denial that insists on holding house prices up (when the clearest of indicators insist prices are falling steeply) and the denial that insisted the bubble would go on forever (when all the indicators said it couldn't).

The houses I see selling (and selling quickly typically) are the one's that cause you to remark "Hmmm - that's certainly a decent chunk cheaper than any other property I've seen of that type"

It makes sense to leap ahead and price at where the market is going to be at anyway. But I appreciate the difficulty..

Snakeblood

the groutch wrote: »

lay down the law and tell them to price it at the amount YOU want, or else you're taking your business elsewhere. don't let them bully you into going with a lower asking price just for them to be able to get their commission quicker.

They'll probably price at whatever the owner wants, but they're not getting commission on a house that doesn't sell. All they'll do is put the ad up at the higher price, and wait for phone calls from people that in all probability won't come.

I discussed with my estate agent about selling my place, and priced it as low as I could on the market, and kept dropping the price every couple of months, while also keeping an eye to make sure it was the cheapest place of its kind in the area at all times. I managed to sell a one bed apartment by doing that, in 2011. It took work and a certain amount of realism about what I could expect for the place.

THe estate agents will take your fee but they want the commission. If they thought your place would sell for more, they'd advise you to sell it for more.

DonkyDonk

DonkyDonk wrote: »

Your estate agent will put the house out at any price you want but if you haven't sold it in 2-3 weeks it won't sell. Simple as that.

Let's get real here, whatever it may or may not sell for 3 weeks to go sale agreed is a looney timescale.

DonkyDonk

RoverJames wrote: »

Let's get real here, whatever it may or may not sell for 3 weeks to go sale agreed is a looney timescale.

That's what the estate agents are saying these days. I know because I've been speaking to a great many of them over the last year!

It might seem like a bit of an exaggeration, but the bottom line is if it doesn't sell quickly (in a few weeks, ideally with an offer after the first open viewing) your chances of selling rapidly diminish.

Balmed Out

Your changing house not region so I dont see the problem.

Put it up for well below other local houses (which have probably spent a long time on the market and wont sell because their over priced). Then at least you have a fighting chance of selling.

Your not likely to loose out on a penny especially if you sell first then rent while looking to buy..
Your house is going to sell for cheaper.
Its replacement will be bought for cheaper.

quozl

the groutch wrote: »

lay down the law and tell them to price it at the amount YOU want, or else you're taking your business elsewhere. don't let them bully you into going with a lower asking price just for them to be able to get their commission quicker.

This is terrible advice.

Namurt you should google 'Chasing the market down' and get an understanding of that very basic concept.

It is exactly what you are talking about doing and is a disaster.

lainey316

RoverJames wrote: »

Let's get real here, whatever it may or may not sell for 3 weeks to go sale agreed is a looney timescale.

Last three houses I saw went sale agreed in less than 2 weeks. One - allegedly - for more than the asking. One had an offer of 260 on asking 279, dunno what it agreed at. Third, I don't know what it agreed at but was asking 360 (same small agent as the first one btw)

the groutch

the thing about pricing at 180 is you've effectively created a price ceiling, regardless of price people aren't going to offer over asking. and you'll still get people offering 10-15% below asking.

DonkyDonk

the groutch wrote: »

the thing about pricing at 180 is you've effectively created a price ceiling, regardless of price people aren't going to offer over asking. and you'll still get people offering 10-15% below asking.

You don't really have a choice unfortunately. If enough people are interested in the property then the seller may exceed the asking price. Otherwise, I'd recommend taking the estate agent's advice as they will know the local market values far better than the seller. At least they should anyway... :rolleyes:

the groutch

DonkyDonk wrote: »

You don't really have a choice unfortunately. If enough people are interested in the property then the seller may exceed the asking price. Otherwise, I'd recommend taking the estate agent's advice as they will know the local market values far better than the seller. At least they should anyway... :rolleyes:

if you set the asking price higher, you might only need ONE person interested enough to get over 180k

Wibbler

the groutch wrote: »

the thing about pricing at 180 is you've effectively created a price ceiling, regardless of price people aren't going to offer over asking. and you'll still get people offering 10-15% below asking.

There's a theory that if you pitch the price right - lower than similar properties in the area - then you will attract more viewers and may get more than one party interested. Competing offers and negotiation could help.

OP needs to be prepared to drop the price fast if the initial asking fails to generate viewings, and then repeat as necessary. Given the odds of any one viewer making an offer and then being able to close on the sale, you'll need plenty of foot fall through the front door to be in with a chance of a successful sale.

zac8

the groutch wrote: »

if you set the asking price higher, you might only need ONE person interested enough to get over 180k

This is just one reason why we have so many over priced properties on the market - sellers hoping there's still one sucker left out there who'll pay over the odds for their house. It's so improbable that it shouldn't even be considered.

theofficepest2

namurt

Firstly, be sceptical of advice on any web forum, including mine, decide for yourself

If there are other similar houses in the areas, compare prices, go view a couple, get the lay of the land, how do they compare to yours?

Remember one house on a road which has had 50 grand spent on it, is ready to move into and has been finished to a good quality is going to be easier to sell than a house which requires a work (insulation, wiring, redecorating), although they have basically the same address, outwardly they might look very similar

Do not listen to estate agents, we are in this residential housing mess because of these people, they are snake oil salesmen, but people think they are working for them, but they only work for their own ends, trust them as you would trust a used car salesman, as in don't

They want to sell quickly without them doing any work, make them work for their money and don't let them dictate to you, you are the boss, not them, obviously be polite as you do this, polite but firm

Also, if you do go with an estate agent, shop around and when you choose, check the ad quality and get someone to ring them to make sure they answer promptly are polite etc, as lots aren't

Lastly, if the price aint right, just make do with what you've got, it's probably gonna be like this for the long haul, when I say make do, kids can share rooms, dump items that take up storage etc, once you have sold, you crystalise any loss

:pac: Ourp

lainey316

OP My opinion would be if you can live with 190k then price it at 199k. 220k seems silly if agent says 185k is max value. At 220k it sounds like the sort of ad I look at and go 'will wait til they cop on a bit and think about going to see it then' rather than wasting my time trying to deal with an unrealistic vendor.

Also an example of pricing too high - a house near me was on for 380k, went on sale June 2010. they had an offer of 300k from first viewing which was completely dismissed, with derision based on the agent's tone. 2 price drops later, it went sale agreed last month when it was asking 330k, I would guess not agreed at 330k tho. Sure, probably higher than the original 300k but 9 months on the market is a long time. If they'd originally gone at 340k, would they have got more interest and sold for 320k in one month rather than 9? Impossible to say, but... 9 months is a long time

mathie

I sold about 18 months ago.

Cheapest on the road was 370K.
We listed at 350K and three weeks later had very little interest.
Dropped to 315K and sold just above that as we'd two interested parties.

Houses now are listed at 260K.
I'm sure they're getting 235K if they're lucky.

As others have said ... don't be on the market, be ahead of it.

Theboinkmaster

mathie wrote: »

I sold about 18 months ago.

Cheapest on the road was 370K.
We listed at 350K and three weeks later had very little interest.
Dropped to 315K and sold just above that as we'd two interested parties.

Houses now are listed at 260K.
I'm sure they're getting 235K if they're lucky.

As others have said ... don't be on the market, be ahead of it.

+1 sound advice

Don Quixote de la Mancha

the groutch wrote: »

lay down the law and tell them to price it at the amount YOU want, or else you're taking your business elsewhere. don't let them bully you into going with a lower asking price just for them to be able to get their commission quicker.

Thats crazy, the auctioneer knows the market, you can act like barbie and demand a price but in the current climate you wont get it, simple as.

The auctioneer will not take on a house spend time showing it etc if they dont think they can sell it. If you get an auctioneer telling you he can get more than the others, he is lying.

Idbatterim

"OP My opinion would be if you can live with 190k then price it at 199k. 220k seems silly if agent says 185k is max value. At 220k it sounds like the sort of ad I look at and go 'will wait til they cop on a bit and think about going to see it then' rather than wasting my time trying to deal with an unrealistic vendor."

The above his the nail on the head! a similarish example, Im looking at cars at the moment, you can see the ones that are priced to sell (Id expect very little off them) then there are the totally over the top prices (in which case I wouldnt even waste the dillusional sellers time or mine, even making an enquiry) There dillusion is costing them serious money in most cases when it comes to property. Op one critical thing is choosing the right estate agent, my mum didnt and it cost her Id say E50-60k, once she went with Sherry Fitzgerald it went quickly! this error, cost one serious heap of money! (as the previous EA had it for 9 months, sometime in 08 from my recollection, when prices were dropping substantially) Alot of the smaller agencies, do seem to employ the snakeoil salesmen... If you do feel like chancing your arm, with the off chance that someone will bite, you could put it up for say 40k off the least you are prepared to accept, drop it maybe 20k per month, if you are going to do this, and you dont get bites quick, I would be quick about dropping prices incrementally...

namurt

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately I didn't get to speak to the EA today to clarify things. My reasoning behind wanting to advertise at 220 was to allow for a drop of about 20K. I'm assuming buyers expect to haggle so if I price it at 200 it really doesn't leave me much room to drop.
If I price it too low then I'm relying on getting more than one person interested enough for it to go up.

Senna

namurt wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately I didn't get to speak to the EA today to clarify things. My reasoning behind wanting to advertise at 220 was to allow for a drop of about 20K. I'm assuming buyers expect to haggle so if I price it at 200 it really doesn't leave me much room to drop.
If I price it too low then I'm relying on getting more than one person interested enough for it to go up.

Buyer's aren't stupid, they wont look at different priced houses and offer 15% off no mater what the price. If your price is realistic buyers will see this and a good EA will push this point home. As long as you have 10k to drop, then you have a barrier.
Pricing it at 220k when an EA is saying 185k max, is just a waste of time. You should be able to discuss this with the EA also, possibly price it at 205k for 2 week, if you dont have more than X amount of viewing, drop the price to 195k. You (and a good EA) can come up with a plan, but you have to be realistic. Selling it for 10k less than you had hoped now is much better than sitting with it advertised at 50k less next year and still no interest.

Balmed Out

I dont understand you at all, house prices are dropping selling quickly will get you more money. The house you will eventually buy is also dropping in value each day so at the end of the day like....

Duckjob

Agree with most of the other posters.

Sounds like the EAs you've talked you are actually being vaguely realistic about the market.

As for the post advising you to lay down the law with the EAs - Terrible, terrible advice.. if you follow this path it will lose you money.

Any house or apt on Daft or MyHome could be sold in 2-3 weeks, if the seller were committed to
a) finding the market clearing price point for the property. ( aggressively cut the price, and keep on cutting, until they start getting a decent level of interest from buyers)
and
b) agreeing to sell at the price at which they get offers.

Don't join in the seller mass delusion that "nothing is selling at the moment". What they really mean is "Nothing is selling for the prices we still think we should get for our properties...."

That very mentality is the only reason the market is so depressed right now. There are always buyers at the right price.

namurt

Balmed Out wrote: »

I dont understand you at all, house prices are dropping selling quickly will get you more money. The house you will eventually buy is also dropping in value each day so at the end of the day like....

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

lainey316

namurt wrote: »

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

Because in 6 months you'll probably only get 150k for it, if agent is suggesting max 185k now.

Snakeblood

namurt wrote: »

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

If the price you *eventually* have to sell at is lower than the current price you *could* sell for, then you lose your deposit, and you are become in debt from the loss you take on selling anyway.

You don't get to sell a house for the price you want, you sell the house for the price you can sell it for, or you keep the house. The way the market is going, prices are going to keep dropping. If you want to sell your house, you have to price aggressively, and the estate agents (a pox upon them) are I think trying to help you understand this.

littleredspot

namurt wrote: »

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

This is a common mistake. The price you paid for it, or the fact that you may go into negative equity, or the fact that you may have to use your savings to make up a difference, has nothing to do with how much your house is worth on the market.
I would agree with other posters. If building an extension doesn't help, you absolutely cannot live there anymore, and renting it out wouldn't be economical, then all you can do is sell it for whatever you can get.

Balmed Out

namurt wrote: »

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

What they all said!

Id seriously recomend getting the quick sale now and renting. Even the most optomistic will tell you prices will fall for at least another year.

namurt

I know how much I paid for it or if it's in negative equity has nothing to do with what it's worth. My point is that if I can only afford to sell for a certain amount saying that it will be worth less in 6 months is of no benefit. I know house prices are dropping. I know if I can't sell for the amount I need to get I'll just have to put up with staying here.

quozl

That is a very different and very valid point, Namurt.

If you really want to sell and are able to borrow the difference then that is a route you can consider. I know it's un-palatable and I wish you the best of luck whatever route you take.

DonkyDonk

namurt wrote: »

I know how much I paid for it or if it's in negative equity has nothing to do with what it's worth. My point is that if I can only afford to sell for a certain amount saying that it will be worth less in 6 months is of no benefit. I know house prices are dropping. I know if I can't sell for the amount I need to get I'll just have to put up with staying here.

A lot of people have this problem. It's one of the major causes of the stagnation in the property market. On that basis I think you're better off staying put as you're sure to be disappointed in the current climate.

Even if you are able to find people who are willing to pay "over the odds" (and it is over the odds according to your EA) for your property, they will probably need to go to a bank for a mortgage. And as we are all aware, the banks are a lot more cautious about lending nowadays and will probably take the decision that the property is overpriced and refuse credit on that basis. But if your buyer has cash (and wants to pay over the odds) you'll be fine.

That's just another scenario for you.

Whatever you decide to do, I for one would love to hear how it unfolds if you're willing to keep us updated.

iguana

namurt wrote: »

I know how much I paid for it or if it's in negative equity has nothing to do with what it's worth. My point is that if I can only afford to sell for a certain amount saying that it will be worth less in 6 months is of no benefit. I know house prices are dropping. I know if I can't sell for the amount I need to get I'll just have to put up with staying here.

The thing is though, that the sooner you sell it the better your chance of getting the price you need. We're pretty much at a point where each day you wait lessens the sale price just a little bit more. (And unfortunately for you today was a day that dropped sales prices by more than just a bit.)

I'd be loath to dick about with chancing a higher price and then dropping after a few weeks. Those weeks could make the difference between achieving the price you need and only getting offers that you can't sell at. Being stuck in an unsuitable house indefinitely is horrible. If you need to achieve that €185k then you should get the house on the market ASAP.

The only thing I'd be demanding of the agent is that their service includes doing everything within reason to accommodate all viewers. That they are willing to hold viewings until at least 8pm on week nights and until at least 2pm on Saturdays. And that they don't try phantom bidder tactics because an awful lot of potential buyers walk at any hint of a bidding war (or clear bullshít from the EA).

Snakeblood

namurt wrote: »

I know how much I paid for it or if it's in negative equity has nothing to do with what it's worth. My point is that if I can only afford to sell for a certain amount saying that it will be worth less in 6 months is of no benefit. I know house prices are dropping. I know if I can't sell for the amount I need to get I'll just have to put up with staying here.

I think the general sentiment was 'Sell for as little as you are able to, if you can' not 'sell to put yourself in debt'. Best of luck with it.

Falconhoof

namurt wrote: »

How will selling quickly (assuming by that you mean for a low price) get me more money if I end up using the savings I have for a deposit on a new house to pay off the negative equity on the current one!!!

See that interest rate rise today? In the coming days that .25% will turn into 0.5%+ on new variable rate mortgages. Your house has just dropped in value by €2-3K in the space of a week. That is why a quick sale is important.

namurt

Iguana, thanks for mentioning about the viewings. I hadn't thought to ask the EA about that.

iguana

namurt wrote: »

Iguana, thanks for mentioning about the viewings. I hadn't thought to ask the EA about that.

Definitely check up on this. I've seen quite a few threads here, on thepropertypin and on askaboutmoney where potential viewers couldn't get the agent to agree to an out of office hours viewing and they got so annoyed they decided to not bother. I sold my house (in London) a few years ago and at least 85% of the viewings happened in the evenings and on Saturday morning/early afternoon. If my agents had insisted on 9-5 I'd probably still be on the market.

lainey316

+1 to iguana's post. I will ONLY view after 6 weekdays or Saturday morning/early afternoon. 4pm Monday? I say let me know if you have another viewing. I have a job after all.

chillywilly

Senna wrote: »

Buyer's aren't stupid

heh, that gave me a chuckle!

Dades

Reading this thread with interest.

I'm in the process of getting my house on the market and and have had two EAs suggest asking prices with €60K in the difference. (House will probably sell somewhere between 300-350K - closer to 300 no doubt).

Savills opted for a higher asking price to allow for haggling space on the price, whereas Sherry Fitz opted for a much lower asking price with almost no wiggle room from their (lower) valuation of the property. Have made an appointment with a third EA to see if that makes the decision any clearer.

While I don't want to end up chasing the market, I don't want the house priced just to be shifted off Sherry Fitz's books. (They were also more expensive and I've always been suspicious about their attitude, tbh).

(Mods if you think this is hijacking the OPs thread move at will )