Dilema re life & work

LegacyUser

Any advice/thought appreciated.

Im 28, female and work in the legal profession. Recently Ive become obsessed with the bad things Ive done in my life, lying, cheating, stealing.

One of the lies I told was in an interview for my current job, I had to take a year out of college for stress when asked why it took me four years to do a five year degree I said I took a year out to look after my sister who was sick as my parents work full time, now my sister was sick and because I took a year out I was able to look after her which worked out handy for my parents but it wasnt the reason, I figured if I told any potential employer I get really stressed they'd never hire me so I didnt, I probably told another couple of fibs at the same time I didnt seem to be opposed to them at the time.

Now I feel like Im in this great job and I didnt really earn it, I have since told my boss about the lie and essentially he doesnt care but I realised I should be focusing on people who would have get the job instead of me and Im not sure what to do about that, quit maybe but on the other side my work have spent money training me....

Other things have happened in work which upset me senior people asking me to put time on bills that is much higher then the time spent on them, or make it look as if people got a discount when they didnt. Im really uncomfortable with this but when I mention it to anyone they've pretty much said Im overreacting and not to leave a good job.

Other lies involve getting help with essays in college and petty theft when I worked in a shop of stuff I was kinda like sure Ill pay for it later and then dont think I ever did. This is too long already so Ill stop.

Any advice/ thoughts appreciated. Thank you.

LegacyUser

We all fib / lie to a certain extent at interviews. Interviewers expect it. Don't quit your job.

I think that you are over reacting.

Stop beating yourself up about the minor theft.... again, a lot of people will have a mars bar or a sandwich (perks of the job).

Even if you don't agree with the morality of the above, stop beating yourself up about these past events.

I would also suggest maybe talking to someone (who you don't work with) as to why you are so obsessed with these things (if you can't forget them that is)

Neyite

Anonfornow wrote: »

Any advice/thought appreciated.

Im 28, female and work in the legal profession. Recently Ive become obsessed with the bad things Ive done in my life, lying, cheating, stealing.

One of the lies I told was in an interview for my current job, I had to take a year out of college for stress when asked why it took me four years to do a five year degree I said I took a year out to look after my sister who was sick as my parents work full time, now my sister was sick and because I took a year out I was able to look after her which worked out handy for my parents but it wasnt the reason, I figured if I told any potential employer I get really stressed they'd never hire me so I didnt, I probably told another couple of fibs at the same time I didnt seem to be opposed to them at the time.

This is a white lie - you did help look after your sister, you did help your parents out at a time they needed it. This is being economical with the truth. I have a six month gap on my CV, and though I was on the dole, I involved myself in caring for an ill relative during that time too.

wrote:

Now I feel like Im in this great job and I didnt really earn it, I have since told my boss about the lie and essentially he doesnt care but I realised I should be focusing on people who would have get the job instead of me and Im not sure what to do about that, quit maybe but on the other side my work have spent money training me....

So he doesnt care, because you have proved yourself, and because people tell small fibs or exaggerate slightly all the time in an interview situation. He does not care because it is simply not important to him.

wrote:

Other things have happened in work which upset me senior people asking me to put time on bills that is much higher then the time spent on them, or make it look as if people got a discount when they didnt. Im really uncomfortable with this but when I mention it to anyone they've pretty much said Im overreacting and not to leave a good job.

Shops make it look like customers are getting a discount all the time, so do professions, and overcharging, while not very nice, goes on all the time. Even if you leave this job, the next one will have you telling white lies to clients eg. telling a caller that someone is in a meeting when in reality they just want to avoid the call. The best thing you can focus on is that when you are in a position to treat customers honestly in the future that you do so. Paying for things is different the world over - does the seller in a market in morocco lie when he inflates the price only to be haggled down? no, its just a method of agreeing a price.

wrote:

Other lies involve getting help with essays in college and petty theft when I worked in a shop of stuff I was kinda like sure Ill pay for it later and then dont think I ever did. This is too long already so Ill stop.

Any advice/ thoughts appreciated. Thank you.

Getting help with essays is that - getting help. Thats collaberation, nothing dishonest. If someone else wrote it entirely or you downloaded it from the internet, and passed off as your own, thats dishonest. what you did is just getting help. Petty theft - thats easily sorted - figure out what amount you stole, and either donate to charity, or put it in an envelope and send it to the shop anonomously.

Seriously, you are getting way too bogged down - you sound like a very honest person, and you are overthinking these "lies". Let them go - in the grand scheme of things, you are not a bad person at all. I see the opposite in fact.

LegacyUser

Getting help with essays is that - getting help. Thats collaberation, nothing dishonest. If someone else wrote it entirely or you downloaded it from the internet, and passed off as your own, thats dishonest. what you did is just getting help. Petty theft - thats easily sorted - figure out what amount you stole, and either donate to charity, or put it in an envelope and send it to the shop anonomously.


Thank you to you both for taking the time to respond. I dont think the picture I painted was totally accurate. The "help" was someone I know writing large chunks of the essay for me and it turned out to be a greater percentage than I wrote, I felt so bad about it I rung my old lecturer who was like "Erm ok it is serious kinda thing but it was a long time ago", I would have thought she had the ability to change the grade on my transcript but she didnt seem v bothered just saying I cant give you a reference knowing this and that's all. It had happened before as well, my ex and I were in the same year and we had the genuis idea of writing one half of an essay each and sticking them together, when we did they were too similar and the essay was due and he said you tell the lecturer your printer broke as you'll get away with it more easily being a girl and I did then he helped me/re-wrote the half that was too similar to his, pretty manipulative on my part!

About the interview, Im sure if I told that lie I wasnt adverse to telling other.

And the "petty theft" was more then sweets etc value wise.

Its like I just woke up one day took a look at myself and went OMG I cant believe I did X and Y, and now I stuggle with it.

I am going to a counsellor he shares your opinion that's it isnt a big deal and wants to know why I am "trying to destroy my life" by ringing old lecturers and telling my boss.

HugoDrax

Hi OP,

There is such a thing as a 'victimless crime.'
Your boss ended up with an employee and I doubt you got the job because you lied about stress. Regardless if we weren't stressed before we get a job we are stressed about work that has to be done when we are doing the job.

Most shops who sell sweets or chocolates factor in losses due to theft or spoilage. I doubt that any shopkeeper would not have taken for granted that the shop girl is going to scoff a few creme eggs on the sly. Perhaps if she doesn't gobble them they are going to be thrown away anyway.

Everyone gets help with essays in college and everyone just about scrapes through and can't quite understand why they got the marks they did.

There is nobody recording your sins in a big book or a guy in red suit making a list and checking it twice and to find out who is naughty or nice.

Look at it this way - Stalin killed millions of people and he didn't lose a wink of sleep thinking about it. What you have done pales into insignificance next to his crimes but you are worrying yourself to death over it.

OP.. The college thing is irrelevant. The petty stealing is irrelevant. The interview is irrelevant.

There's something else making you feel like this because everybody does this sort of thing at some points to get by... As another person said, victimless crimes. You're boss is happy with you and his clients are happy with him.

dan_d

OP - the lads in my class in college shared assignments (usually the night before they were due!), to get them handed in.They'd "borrow" up to 4 other people's assignments, and sit around a table in a group with the 4 things, "combining" (or just outright copying) them. It's not right but believe me, you're not alone.

Stop ringing lecturers. Stop telling your boss this stuff.

You told a white lie in the interview. You didn't lie about grades, or lie about what you did as a college course, or pretend you passed the course when you didn't. You gave them a reason why you took a year out. End of. There's no need to feel bad about it, it's in the past and there it needs to stay.

The only person noticing this stuff is you. The only person making a big deal out of it is you. You've already told others and they haven't really reacted.Please take your cue from that and realise that you don't need to worry about them. Understand that your brain can play huge tricks on you. If you think about something enough, it will become a huge mountain in your mind. You need to work on making that mountain small, notgiving these thoughts any attention, rather than listening to them and watching the mountain increase in size. Seriously. You are not a bad person. Just a slightly confused one. But have faith in yourself and stop listening to those thoughts.

Kevin Duffy

Hi OP, it's just an opinion/educated guess, but I think you need to focus on what's causing you to feel this way, not the content of the feelings themselves.
You took a year off for stress during your studies and you're now stressing about the past, present and future, from trivial things to important things. There is something at the root of this stress and the feelings you're going through.

I think, before you commit any steps that will have a negative effect on your future such as confessing to things or quitting your job, that you need to get some personalised, professional help. Perhaps start with your GP, maybe think about counselling, or maybe talk to close friends and family.

Look after yourself and don't feel unworthy of your professional success or guilty about your past, they are things you don't deserve to feel in your situation.

LegacyUser

dan_d wrote: »

Understand that your brain can play huge tricks on you. If you think about something enough, it will become a huge mountain in your mind. You need to work on making that mountain small, notgiving these thoughts any attention, rather than listening to them and watching the mountain increase in size. Seriously. You are not a bad person. Just a slightly confused one. But have faith in yourself and stop listening to those thoughts.

Thank you all so much for your kind words and advice, perhaps if I wanted to get slagged off I should have gone to After Hours, you people are too nice.

Re the above I also started thinking that id cheated on all my exams and stolen money from my old student job so Ive started going through ten years of bank statements (my bank were well impressed when I asked for them!) and trying to find anything written down old emails etc to jog my memory to reassure me that I didnt do these things, because if I had stolen money I would feel terrible. I dont know if my brain is playing tricks on me, my memory just seems to be terrible, but I will look at an old bank statement and know that I put a flight on my Mum's credit card (which she defo would have made me pay for) but I havent taken much money out around that time, I used to babysit as well so I would have had a certain amount of cash to hand that didnt pass through my bank account, it just really gets to me that I cant remember not taking money (I think that might sound a bit mad).

I even rang Revenue and told them I didnt declare my babysitting money they basically told me to get lost, it never occured to me you had to declare it, stupid as I was.

I've read that when you put your mind under pressure it worsens your memory even further so maybe thats it Im just so stressed and frustrated with myself.

I am seeing a Counsellor, lovely man, I'd say he doesnt know what to say, he made me promise him not to go back to the shop and tell them I took money as I could get "myself into a world of trouble" and says his task is to ensure I dont ruin my future with all of this.

Im so stuck inside my head its frustrating.

Distorted

You sound very stressed to me OP and I wonder if its your job thats doing it. You are obsessing over small, unimportant things, which suggests you might have got things out of proportion. I've been there - working in the legal profession. Do you work in a city centre practice? Its a cut throat world and you have to be a certain type of person to succeed. The jurisdiction I worked in actually has a dedicated phone line for stressed young lawyer to provide support and assistance, its that common. Is it likely that you are very stressed and pressurised at work and this is affecting the way you look at things?

LegacyUser

OP, no offence, but woking in legal while telling lies is not conductive to society as a whole. "Getting help" is also cheating. No matter how small.

LegacyUser

Hi Op,
I recently read about this thing. I think you have it.
It's not really a thing though, it's just a ... bit of a thing.
Successful woman guilt syndrome, where women in successful positions and who are pretty much successful at life, feel fake, feel like they shouldn't have the success they have for whatever reason.


Advice: Enjoy the success your having. Realize that you deserve it, and stop beating yourself up about stuff. You obviously do a good job, otherwise you wouldn't be in the position your in.
Chill out Please, for womankind.

Peace.

krd

Anonfornow wrote: »

Other things have happened in work which upset me senior people asking me to put time on bills that is much higher then the time spent on them, or make it look as if people got a discount when they didnt. Im really uncomfortable with this but when I mention it to anyone they've pretty much said Im overreacting and not to leave a good job.

It's not uncommon to bill for hours that haven't been worked. Companies who bill by the hour usually estimate.

However, be very careful. If senior staff ask you to partake in serious dishonesty - if anything goes wrong they will hang you out to dry. Usually, fraudsters will fit someone else up for the fraud. Keep an eye out. Another common trick, to get someone to take part in major corruption is first to get them to do something very minor, but that could destroy their career. Once you're in the trap - you could find yourself involved in very serious activity. A little dishonesty is usually an entré to much more serious dishonesty. And everyone is not at it.

Other lies involve getting help with essays in college and petty theft when I worked in a shop of stuff I was kinda like sure Ill pay for it later and then dont think I ever did. This is too long already so Ill stop.

You could be clinically depressed. A symptom of clinical depression can be an overwhelming and irrational guilt for very petty instances of dishonesty. If though you think there's something bad about your personality, you'd like to change, you can change. People can change.

Guilt is not a bad thing. It can stop you from doing terrible things. Ireland is full of people with little or no guilt, who one way or another, have destroyed countless lies.

LegacyUser

Distorted wrote: »

You sound very stressed to me OP and I wonder if its your job thats doing it. You are obsessing over small, unimportant things, which suggests you might have got things out of proportion. I've been there - working in the legal profession. Do you work in a city centre practice? Its a cut throat world and you have to be a certain type of person to succeed. The jurisdiction I worked in actually has a dedicated phone line for stressed young lawyer to provide support and assistance, its that common. Is it likely that you are very stressed and pressurised at work and this is affecting the way you look at things?

I think it used to be my job but I learned to handle that as in I used to lie in bed at the weekends worrying that I had thrown an original documents out and stuff like that and go into the office to check but I more easily able to switch off now so I dont do stuff like that anymore. The time recording aspect of the job does really stress me out Ive been looking at my times from previous years going that seems a lot of hours for that, I cant remember ever dumping time on a clock intentionally but iI defo should have been a lot more careful about letting the clock run. Re the unethical stuff I guess I just dont want to feel Ive sold my soul for a good job.

Thanks for the replies.

LegacyUser

youworkinalegalprofession wrote: »

OP, no offence, but woking in legal while telling lies is not conductive to society as a whole. "Getting help" is also cheating. No matter how small.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you but would you have any suggestions as to what I should do?

Distorted

Anonfornow wrote: »

I think it used to be my job but I learned to handle that as in I used to lie in bed at the weekends worrying that I had thrown an original documents out and stuff like that and go into the office to check but I more easily able to switch off now so I dont do stuff like that anymore. The time recording aspect of the job does really stress me out Ive been looking at my times from previous years going that seems a lot of hours for that, I cant remember ever dumping time on a clock intentionally but iI defo should have been a lot more careful about letting the clock run. Re the unethical stuff I guess I just dont want to feel Ive sold my soul for a good job.

Thanks for the replies.

Time recording is a nightmare. I'm taking it your firm uses the standard 6 minute units? And do you get assessed on billable time at the end of every fortnight, etc as well? Time recording is done basically so that they can bill clients and prove it if asked to do so. It sounds like there is a big emphasis on billable hours and time recording in your firm. Are they also pressurising you to bring in new clients/new work? It almost sounds like you are applying time recording and strict accounting rules to your own life!

LegacyUser

Distorted wrote: »

Time recording is a nightmare. I'm taking it your firm uses the standard 6 minute units? And do you get assessed on billable time at the end of every fortnight, etc as well? Time recording is done basically so that they can bill clients and prove it if asked to do so. It sounds like there is a big emphasis on billable hours and time recording in your firm. Are they also pressurising you to bring in new clients/new work? It almost sounds like you are applying time recording and strict accounting rules to your own life!

Kinda I don't want to be too specific not that many firms in Dublin. I'm very junior so not really expected to bring in clients I get big pay on the back if I do. Seeing as your in the same field any other advice for me as in of all the stuff I've posted do you think if you got a job ahead of me I'd be so pissed.

Miss Fluff

I think you need to go and talk to a GP about the level of anxiety you're experiencing. It's evident that it's effecting your life significantly.

Turning around and phoning an old lecturer long after you graduate and telling him you cheated on an assignment? And then also turning around to your boss and telling them you lied to get the job you're in? These seem like really extreme measures to go to in order to assuage what would appear to be a disproportionate amount of guilt on your part.

The past is the past so all you can do is try to be a better person. Stop fixating on the mistakes you have made. Your coping mechanisms for stress would appear to be compromised so perhaps a GP will be able to recommend CBT or a similar therapy in order to help you manage your anxiety better.

Kevin Duffy

Anonfornow wrote: »

I am going to a counsellor he shares your opinion that's it isnt a big deal and wants to know why I am "trying to destroy my life" by ringing old lecturers and telling my boss.

The man is talking sense and asking the right questions. Given that he has a relationship with you and insights on your problems that we don't, you should be listening to him.

Anonfornow wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you but would you have any suggestions as to what I should do?

You've focussed on this as the first post that you really agreed with. Why? Are you determined to find wrong in what you've done and happy to find a statement that supports your negative view?
Given that and your irrational behaviour such as contacting the revenue commissioners and previous lecturers, you really, really need to be getting to the bottom of what's causing you to feel this way, not acting on the feelings and seizing on the first sign of support for them.

As for the post you were agreeing with, it was unfair on you and quite ridiculous - you are not single handedly diminishing society and the idea that getting help is cheating is laughable. I get help every day, so does anyone who lives in society. None of could get by without help, collaboration, society, support, co-operation. That's not cheating, that's humanity and it's good.

LegacyUser

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

The man is talking sense and asking the right questions. Given that he has a relationship with you and insights on your problems that we don't, you should be listening to him.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I take your point, I guess I resorted to this as he's not cheap (worth the money though) and I work late enough so can only really see him once a week max and sometimes I get in a panic and dont really have anyone to talk to.


You've focussed on this as the first post that you really agreed with. Why? Are you determined to find wrong in what you've done and happy to find a statement that supports your negative view?
Given that and your irrational behaviour such as contacting the revenue commissioners and previous lecturers, you really, really need to be getting to the bottom of what's causing you to feel this way, not acting on the feelings and seizing on the first sign of support for them.

As for the post you were agreeing with, it was unfair on you and quite ridiculous - you are not single handedly diminishing society and the idea that getting help is cheating is laughable. I get help every day, so does anyone who lives in society. None of could get by without help, collaboration, society, support, co-operation. That's not cheating, that's humanity and it's good.

Thanks again, I appreciate that you're trying to reassure me, I guess I do agree with that person, Im trying to take a more pragmatic approach to things though.

LittleBook

Anonfornow wrote: »

I have since told my boss about the lie and essentially he doesnt care but I realised I should be focusing on people who would have get the job instead of me and Im not sure what to do about that, quit maybe but on the other side my work have spent money training me....

Anonfornow wrote: »

Im really uncomfortable with this but when I mention it to anyone they've pretty much said Im overreacting and not to leave a good job.

Anonfornow wrote: »

I felt so bad about it I rung my old lecturer who was like "Erm ok it is serious kinda thing but it was a long time ago", I would have thought she had the ability to change the grade on my transcript but she didnt seem v bothered just saying I cant give you a reference knowing this and that's all.

Anonfornoe wrote: »

I also started thinking that id cheated on all my exams and stolen money from my old student job so Ive started going through ten years of bank statements (my bank were well impressed when I asked for them!) and trying to find anything written down old emails etc to jog my memory to reassure me that I didnt do these things,

Anonfornoe wrote: »

I even rang Revenue and told them I didnt declare my babysitting money they basically told me to get lost, it never occured to me you had to declare it, stupid as I was.

Woah! There is nothing "pragmatic" about any of this.

Anonfornoe wrote: »

Thank you all so much for your kind words and advice, perhaps if I wanted to get slagged off I should have gone to After Hours, you people are too nice.

Anonforthis wrote: »

I appreciate that you're trying to reassure me, I guess I do agree with that person

You really came here expecting (hoping?) to be criticised, didn't you?

Anonfornoe wrote: »

I am seeing a Counsellor, lovely man, I'd say he doesnt know what to say, he made me promise him not to go back to the shop and tell them I took money as I could get "myself into a world of trouble" and says his task is to ensure I dont ruin my future with all of this.

Anonfornow wrote: »

he shares your opinion that's it isnt a big deal and wants to know why I am "trying to destroy my life" by ringing old lecturers and telling my boss.

Don't you want to know why you are doing this?

There is something very OCPD (as opposed to OCD) about your obsession with what you've done wrong (in your eyes) and your compulsion to confess and make amends for it, thereby achieving a sense of perfection.

I highly recommend you continue with the counsellor. You (I think through no fault of your own) haven't heard anything anyone here has said other than the user who criticised you.

But for what it's worth, you sound like a good person with a lot on her mind.

Take care.

LegacyUser

LittleBook wrote: »

Woah! There is nothing "pragmatic" about any of this.





You really came here expecting (hoping?) to be criticised, didn't you?

Id say expecting, and I suppose I wanted people's opinions as to how poorly they viewed this on a moral scale.



Don't you want to know why you are doing this?

There is something very OCPD (as opposed to OCD) about your obsession with what you've done wrong (in your eyes) and your compulsion to confess and make amends for it, thereby achieving a sense of perfection.

I highly recommend you continue with the counsellor. You (I think through no fault of your own) haven't heard anything anyone here has said other than the user who criticised you.

But for what it's worth, you sound like a good person with a lot on her mind.

Thank you, but Im really not that good a person but I suppose I am trying. For the past week or so Ive been doing ok and today its kinda hit me again when Im in work and there's people sitting on the dole who didnt lie in interviews (and Im pretty sure I told other lies I cant remember not massive ones about my qualifications as most people going for it would have a law degree, but maybe something in answer to questions like "Name a situation where you have done X, to show you are X type of person"). I just really gets to me, and not being able to remember if I stole stuff gets to me as well, Im so disappointed in myself for not seeing how wrong it was to take anything I guess I think I must have been working off very bad judgement (an I took more then sweets, it was medical stuff).

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me.
Take care.

Oryx

What strikes me here is that when youve confessed to your 'sins', mostly it didnt matter or people didnt really care. So you must be someone who does a good job, and is seen as a good person, even if you dont think so yourself.

I think what you need to bring up with your counsellor, is not how to make amends to others for what you feel you have done wrong, but how to forgive yourself for it. You also need to examine why you want to torture yourself with things that have happened in the past, when the best thing to do is learn from them and move forward.

LegacyUser

Oryx wrote: »

What strikes me here is that when youve confessed to your 'sins', mostly it didnt matter or people didnt really care. So you must be someone who does a good job, and is seen as a good person, even if you dont think so yourself.

I think what you need to bring up with your counsellor, is not how to make amends to others for what you feel you have done wrong, but how to forgive yourself for it. You also need to examine why you want to torture yourself with things that have happened in the past, when the best thing to do is learn from them and move forward.

Thanks for your reply. In short I think people "dont care" as they like me - Im pleasant, not rude and seen to be hard working (although I am on boards.ie right now!) but if another person had got the opportunity to work in this job Im sure people would like them too thats kinda how I feel - like I took an opportunity from someone else, my place of work didnt really suffer, I realise that so hence why they dont care.

Kevin Duffy

OP, apart from the events you've mentioned in the thread, is there some reason for a lack of self-worth?

Your logic on the job issue is, at best, extremely flawed. Anyone who has a job has "taken it from someone else"; are all job holders unworthy of their jobs?

LegacyUser

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

OP, apart from the events you've mentioned in the thread, is there some reason for a lack of self-worth?

Your logic on the job issue is, at best, extremely flawed. Anyone who has a job has "taken it from someone else"; are all job holders unworthy of their jobs?

No certainly not, I am less worthy though as I didnt tell the whole truth in my interview which was the reason they decided to take me on for an internship which led to a traineeship, which was highly sought after apparently over 800 people applied, many of whom were in my year in college.

Thanks for your reply, appreciate all you guys taking the time.

LegacyUser

I think that you should talk to your GP who can get you psychologically assessed - go see a behavioural psychologist.

Your Counsellor may not be equipped enough to deal with this.

Oryx

You lied on your cv. So do other people, all the time. Job seeking can be ruthless, and you arent the worst offender. Getting a job is only one step, keeping it is the important part, which youve proved you can do. But it doesnt seem to matter how many times you are told that, you are determined to hate yourself for what you did, and that is what you need help for.