Gardaí allegedly joke about threatening to rape Corrib protesters

Morag

After the big discussion thread about the use of sensitive words and what those words mean I was horrified to find this in my news feeds this morning.

http://www.newswhip.ie/?p=29206

Gardaí have appointed senior officer from outside the Mayo region to examine remarks allegedly made by two officers about two protesters who were arrested in Mayo last week.

Both women were arrested last thursday for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route.

Allegedly the gardaí were making jokes about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

Breakingnews.ie reports the alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which was confiscated from the women and was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

The two women were later released without charge from Belmullet station and had their camera returned to them.

The Irish Times have published a partial transcript of the video, here is an excerpt:

Garda A: “Who is them two lassies, do you know the two of them?

Garda B: “I don’t know the second one, the first one is with blonde hair.”

Unidentified garda: “She was up on the tractor earlier on.”

Garda A: “It’d do no harm to get the second one’s name again?

Garda B: “She’s some Yank. I don’t know who the f**k she is.”

Unidentified garda: “ Is she a Yank?

Garda B: “It sounds like it, it sounds like it, the accent anyway

Unidentified garda: “Sounds like a Yank or Canadian.”

Garda B: “Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration f**king on her.”

Garda A: “She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrested.”

Garda B : “…….and deported”

Garda A: “And raped.”

Garda B: “I wouldn’t go that far yet….. She was living down at that crusty camp, f**k sake, you never know what you might get.”

Garda A: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”

Unidentified Garda: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

Garda A : “Or I’ll definitely rape you.”

Unidentified garda: “Will you be me friend on Facebook?”

The video taken by the camera is available here.

Caoimhe Kerrins, a Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson, said:

“This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

“Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice.”

This is the type of thing you read about happening to women in south africa and the middle east police and soldiers trying to scare women with such threats.

optogirl

If I heard a group of 8 year olds talking like that I'd be disgusted.

Morag

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0405/1224293869954.html

A SENIOR garda officer has been appointed to investigate the treatment of two women who were arrested during protests over the Corrib gas project late last week.

Members of the force were inadvertently recorded on a video camera they had earlier confiscated joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The video camera was not fully switched off after it was seized by gardaí and it recorded exchanges between several gardaí in the vehicle in which they were travelling.

The two women were arrested on a public road last Thursday about 30 minutes after one of them had been taken down from the roof of a tractor hired for Shell’s preparatory work on the Corrib gas pipeline at Aughoose.

Both women were released without charge.

They are upset about the exchanges that were recorded and say they were manhandled by several officers during their arrest near the Shell compound for the new Corrib gas pipeline route in north Mayo.

The woman who was carrying the video camera says she had her arms forced until she dropped the camera, and sustained bruising. Her colleague says she was treated in an “unnecessarily physical fashion”.

Both women said they wished not to be named, and neither wanted to comment on the record on the incident.

Supt Pat Diskin of Belmullet Garda station said a senior garda from outside the division had been appointed to “establish the facts and report on the matter”.

The women were arrested for public order-related offences, and a file is being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions.

An academic at NUI Maynooth, where one of the women is studying, has condemned as “outrageous” the content of some recorded conversation.

The camera on which the exchanges were recorded is believed to have been the property of the college.

It was some hours after their release that the women discovered their camera, which was returned to them, had not been switched off.

It was in the possession of gardaí leaving the scene in a separate car, and during the journey it had recorded exchanges between several gardaí.

One garda can be heard on the tape saying that one of the women “sounds like a Yank or Canadian”. Another garda said: “well, whoever, we’ll get immigration f***ing on her.”

A more senior garda picked up the conversation, saying “she refused to give her name and address and [was] told she would be arrested”.

“And deported,” his colleague continued. “And raped,” the more senior garda said.

The conversation continued in jocular fashion, with the more senior garda saying: “Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.”

Amid some laughter, another garda said: “Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.”

“Or I’ll definitely rape you,” the more senior garda responded.

The 37-minute recording also features differences of opinion between the gardaí in the car over use of equipment and training to deal with protests.

One garda expressed concern about responsibility in court proceedings if a protester was injured during removal, and it transpired that there was insufficient equipment or training. His senior disagreed, and said it was a matter of “common sense”.

Dr Bríd Connolly, lecturer in NUI Maynooth’s adult and community education department, confirmed that one of the women arrested was a student at the college.

“This recording is an affront to women, an affront to freedom to protest, and rape is not a joking matter,” Dr Connolly said.

“How can women who have been assaulted have any confidence in the Garda if this is the sort of attitude that prevails?

“It undermines the work done with the Garda by rape crisis centres and Women’s Aid, and takes us back 40 to 50 years,” Dr Connolly added.

http://vimeo.com/21952231
The tape.

Scarinae

It doesn't seem that the women were present when the conversation took place, as the gardaí are talking about them rather than to them, so it's not that they actually threatened to rape them - that's what I thought when I first read it. However, the way they're talking about it is pretty appalling. These men aren't in the pub with their mates making bad-taste jokes over a pint, they're in uniform and on duty as gardaí. Ok, so they didn't think they were being recorded, and it's pretty unlucky for them that they were, but the way they're all laughing as they say "Give me your name and address or I'll rape you, hurrr hurrr" - I certainly wouldn't want to walk into a police station to report something as traumatic as a rape if I knew that people like this would be taking my statement. Rape reporting is so low already, I don't think that incidents like this are going to do anything to help.

Wibbs

Fishie wrote: »

It doesn't seem that the women were present when the conversation took place, as the gardaí are talking about them rather than to them, so it's not that they actually threatened to rape them

This. Comparing it to South African/ME or where ever this is a direct and actual threat and occurrence is a tad over reactive IMHO.

Though this;

However, the way they're talking about it is pretty appalling.

...and especially this;

I certainly wouldn't want to walk into a police station to report something as traumatic as a rape if I knew that people like this would be taking my statement. Rape reporting is so low already, I don't think that incidents like this are going to do anything to help.

+1000

Poor Craythur

Fishie wrote: »

but the way they're all laughing as they say "Give me your name and address or I'll rape you, hurrr hurrr" - I certainly wouldn't want to walk into a police station to report something as traumatic as a rape if I knew that people like this would be taking my statement. Rape reporting is so low already, I don't think that incidents like this are going to do anything to help.

Exactly.

But knowing some of the people I know who entered the Gardai, I can attest that they do to let any old idiot in.

krudler

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Exactly.

But knowing some of the people I know who entered the Gardai, I can attest that they do to let any old idiot in.

I think being an idiot helps your application in a lot of cases. Inability to pronounce words correctly is a surefire way to sargeant as well.

Poor Craythur

krudler wrote: »

I think being an idiot helps your application in a lot of cases. Inability to pronounce words correctly is a surefire way to sargeant as well.

Heh heh.

Seriously though, I know some proper knuckle-draggers who were let in.

Wibbs

OK folks less of the Guard generalisations please.

Poor Craythur

I said some not all, it wasn't a generalisation. And it's true.

goose2005

Wibbs wrote: »

OK folks less of the Guard generalisations please.

In fairness the force has a strong tendency towards unprofessionalism.

bronte

I can't believe how thoughtless they were.
People already find it difficult to report rape and domestic violence for fear of not being taken seriously. Male and female. This hurts everyone.

SheRa

I heard the recording and its horrific, much worse than seeing it in print. The gardai sounds delighted with themselves discussing sexual assualt like they were.

I do hope they get fired. HOWEVER, the generalisations about the gardai are wrong. Certainly I know some idiots that are in the Gardai, but likewise I know some idiots in other walks of life, it doesnt mean that I tar their profession with the same brush.

I certainly couldnt deals with victims of crime on a daily basis, nor could I inform a next of kin that their loved one has died.

Ok you might think that its funny to joke about the gardai and sure its only an internet forum, but I think that it comes across as very insulting to all those gardai that are professional.

Poor Craythur

bronte wrote: »

I can't believe how thoughtless they were.
People already find it difficult to report rape and domestic violence for fear of not being taken seriously. Male and female. This hurts everyone.

I tried to make this point elsewhere but it was pooh poohed.

metrovelvet

SheRa wrote: »

I heard the recording and its horrific, much worse than seeing it in print. The gardai sounds delighted with themselves discussing sexual assualt like they were.

I do hope they get fired. HOWEVER, the generalisations about the gardai are wrong. Certainly I know some idiots that are in the Gardai, but likewise I know some idiots in other walks of life, it doesnt mean that I tar their profession with the same brush.

I certainly couldnt deals with victims of crime on a daily basis, nor could I inform a next of kin that their loved one has died.

Ok you might think that its funny to joke about the gardai and sure its only an internet forum, but I think that it comes across as very insulting to all those gardai that are professional.

Guardi or not guardi, if I heard this kind of talk from anyone, I would make my exit and have nothing to do with that kind of low life scum.

R P McMurphy

unacceptable

SheRa

metrovelvet wrote: »

Guardi or not guardi, if I heard this kind of talk from anyone, I would make my exit and have nothing to do with that kind of low life scum.

Absolutely, as would I. I was just making the point that you cant tar a profession based on these particular men.

Lu Tze

Anybody want to change the thread title? I dont think that it was a joke is in question, no matter how distasteful or inappropriate it is.

That said i think it will be blown wildly out of proportion - as it already... is

“It undermines the work done with the Garda by rape crisis centres and Women’s Aid, and takes us back 40 to 50 years,” Dr Connolly added.

Ickle Magoo

I have to say I don't think I'd call it unfortunate - ah the poor auld gardai making rape jokes, twas just a pity they got caught - sounds like a rather bizarre way of looking at unprofessional and inappropriate behaviour by people who are supposed to be the first port of call in the event of a serious sexual assault.

Hunter Mahan

The only concern I have is why they only released an edited version, why not upload the whole video? The fact that Shell to Sea protesters are involved always leads to a certain amount of skepticism.

Plain and simple it was totally unprofessional and sanctions will have to be imposed, but the ignoranct and hysterical reactions of some people is unbelievable, there are people who act like these muppets did in all walks of life. But sure it's far easier and more Irish to say that all priest are paedo's, all politicians are corrupt and all gardai are...

Ickle Magoo

Perhaps if corrupt politicians, paedophilic priests and garda who are.... weren't given carte blanch or even protected by the state directly or indirectly then there would be less outrage?

Again, it seems to be missing the point somewhat to lay the blame on the side of or denigrate those who are vocal in opposing corruption in dail earrann, child abusers moved around diocese and gardai acting inappropriately and unprofessionally - if fact I'd say that's what's caused a lot of the issues here in the first instance.

Hunter Mahan

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps if corrupt politicians, paedophilic priests and garda who are.... weren't given carte blanch or even protected by the state directly or indirectly then there would be less outrage?

Again, it seems to be missing the point somewhat to lay the blame on the side of or denigrate those who are vocal in opposing corruption in dail earrann, child abusers moved around diocese and gardai acting inappropriately and unprofessionally - if fact I'd say that's what's caused a lot of the issues here in the first instance.

Hysterics and generalisation, in my opinion.

I'm going to leave now because everyone is entitled to an opinion and it's not my place to try and ram mine down anyone's throat.

I just wish more people would engage their own brains more often, form their own opinions on facts and not buy into spin and reactionary swill spewed by the masses on many occasions*. I guess I'm generalising a bit now, apologies.

Ulysses Gaze

These guys should be thrown off the force....but they won't be.

They'll be removed from front-line duty and hidden away at a desk for the remainder of their careers. Or at least until the heat dies down.

Poor Craythur

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

Hysterics and generalisation, in my opinion.

I'm going to leave now because everyone is entitled to an opinion and it's not my place to try and ram mine down anyone's throat.

I just wish more people would engage their own brains more often, form their own opinions on facts and not buy into spin and reactionary swill spewed by the masses on many occasions*. I guess I'm generalising a bit now, apologies.

So anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't engaged their brain?

Morag

"We cannot expect people to have respect for law and order until we teach respect to those we have entrusted to enforce those laws." — Hunter S. Thompson

Hunter Mahan

Poor Craythur wrote: »

So anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't engaged their brain?

I didn't say that anywhere in the post, I think I was clear that it was my own opinion initially, and I had no intention of forcing it on anyone else, I then clarified that I had indeed made a general statement myself.

I would never be so arrogant as to believe I'm right about everything or indeed anything, but I do endeavor to base my opinion's on what I believe to be facts and not jump on any sort of bandwagon. If I'm wrong about anything I'm always the first to apologise and to learn from it.

I guess I long for more independent thought from the people of this country.

Anyway I got sucked in again , I don't want to derail this thread anymore, don't know how I ended up in the ladies lounge? It was an enjoyable little debate though. Take care

Ebbs

Lu Tze wrote: »

Anybody want to change the thread title? I dont think that it was a joke is in question, no matter how distasteful or inappropriate it is.

Hence it was an allegended joke?

Obviously it wasn't serious, despite how disgraceful it may appear, there was no actual threat unless you count them saying they were going to rape eachother as a serious offence. They weren't seriously planning it, so just a joke.

I agree its being blown out of proportion alright, hard to say 3 men represent a force of 1000s of men and women.

Perhaps if these three are sacked they'll make up a sky sports pannel or Talksport show?

panda100

I just had a listen of the conversation there and it just struck me as really odd and not at all funny conversation to be having.

I laughed at this bit :

"She was living down at that crusty camp, f**k sake, you never know what you might get.”

That is kinda funny, but the rest of the conversation shows a real bizzare and extremely inappropriate view towards rape. Scary stuff coming from gardai.

Irish Fire

goose2005 wrote: »

In fairness the force has a strong tendency towards unprofessionalism.

Where do you get off spouting crap like that???

Ickle Magoo

Hunter Mahan wrote: »

Hysterics and generalisation, in my opinion.

Using "hysterical" to counter any point in a discussion is a pet peeve of mine, insinuating anyone who disagrees with you isn't thinking rationally, if at all or is only capable of getting the tin hats on and repeating conspiracies verbatim. Unfortunately in reality, one wouldn't have to look very far to find a great deal of information on a great deal of corruption in organisations given a huge amount of authority over the years and charged with a duty of care to the irish people in which they failed miserably.

To crown those who wish considerable change in how such organisations operate and a new standard laid down of appropriate behaviours and, most importantly, consequences when they don't as nothing more than hysterical unthinkers is at best disingenuous - and still peculiarly deflective...I'm not sure why a drive to improvement standards would ever be considered a bad thing.

sandin

stupid comments by some bored gardai given the unthankful task of controlling the rent a yob crowd at the corrib pipeline.

At least the gardai here don't shoot innocent people like happens in the UK (Mendes).

milehip1

krudler wrote: »

I think being an idiot helps your application in a lot of cases. Inability to pronounce words correctly is a surefire way to sargeant as well.

Read of a US police applicant who was refused because his IQ was too high, he retook the test, scored lower and was accepted,

reasoning behind it was People with higher IQ get bored quicker not suitable for sitting hours on end in a patrol car(and probably aren't as easy brainwash)

Anyways disguting thing for gaurds to joke about,really done the force no favours there.

Buceph

There's an interesting dynamic going across boards in relation to this story. It's being talked about here, in After Hours and in the Emergency Services forum. After Hours is a mess, with accusations and everything flying everywhere. The emergency services forum is very defensive re: the guards. And this forum is more sensitive about the situation, as I would expect. I just thought it was interesting to see the different reactions.


As for my own view on this, I don't think the joke is the biggest problem. The joke was stupid and in bad taste, and damages the reputation of the Gardaí. But bad taste is everywhere, even in the guards. And I don't think that any subject should be strictly off limits simply because someone would be offended, because nothing would be on the table then. Sure when you are making an edgy joke, you better make sure it's pretty damn funny if you want to get away with it. And in this case I don't think the guards could have made it funny enough not to damage their reputation with a lot of people. And while some people are uncouth and inconsiderate in what they think are private moments, I don't think it makes them bad people, or bad at their job, just idiots in what they're doing.

What I think the bigger problem is is the manner in which the rape was implied. I've read in a fair few places that some rape victims don't see the physical sexual act as the worst aspect of it, rather the see the mental domination, and their subjugation as the really damaging part. And I've read that some psychologist say that rape for the rapist isn't about a simple sexual act, but about exerting control, both physical and mental over their victim, it's about empowering themselves through the act. And I think that's what the big problem is with what the guards were saying.

They were saying in response to the women refusing to give their names and addresses that they would arrest them (this all takes place in the private discussion in the squad car.) Imposing an arrest is what guards do. For them this is a perfectly acceptable exertion of their authority and control over a situation. Then they threatened the women with deportation. Not directly under their control, but something instigated by them. An extension of their control and authority over what were now prisoners (again, hypothetical threats, because they didn't actually say it to the women, who were in a different car.) Then the heinous part, they threaten the woman with rape. The ultimate exertion of dominance and control, demeaning and degrading. All along the guards extend the idea of their control over the women and how they will dominate them. Women who are under arrest and who have submitted completely. It's a total subjugation of the women. And that's what I think is the worst part.

The guards, using rape in a (not funny) joking manner, consider it to be the ultimate extension of the power they have over their prisoners. And that shows a complete lack of understanding of rape and a complete lack of understanding of their duty of care. Joking about rape is the lesser matter, the fact that they would consider rape to equate with their power of arrest is the really concerning part.

milehip1

sandin wrote: »

stupid comments by some bored gardai given the unthankful task of controlling the rent a yob crowd at the corrib pipeline.

At least the gardai here don't shoot innocent people like happens in the UK (Mendes).

Well there was the Abbylaragh(sic) incident that could have been handled a whole lot better.

Ickle Magoo

sandin wrote: »

stupid comments by some bored gardai given the unthankful task of controlling the rent a yob crowd at the corrib pipeline.

At least the gardai here don't shoot innocent people like happens in the UK (Mendes).

Apart from the tragic death of Jean Charles de Menezes spawning two investigations, a corporate criminal prosecution and an inquest which I would consider serious consequences, I could follow your example and justify it because at least the UK police force don't drag children off and beat them to death like they do in other countries - I'm not sure what on earth that has to do with anything or how such reductionism solves anything...

Poor Craythur

Buceph wrote: »

There's an interesting dynamic going across boards in relation to this story. It's being talked about here, in After Hours and in the Emergency Services forum. After Hours is a mess, with accusations and everything flying everywhere. The emergency services forum is very defensive re: the guards. And this forum is more sensitive about the situation, as I would expect. I just thought it was interesting to see the different reactions.


As for my own view on this, I don't think the joke is the biggest problem. The joke was stupid and in bad taste, and damages the reputation of the Gardaí. But bad taste is everywhere, even in the guards. And I don't think that any subject should be strictly off limits simply because someone would be offended, because nothing would be on the table then. Sure when you are making an edgy joke, you better make sure it's pretty damn funny if you want to get away with it. And in this case I don't think the guards could have made it funny enough not to damage their reputation with a lot of people. And while some people are uncouth and inconsiderate in what they think are private moments, I don't think it makes them bad people, or bad at their job, just idiots in what they're doing.

What I think the bigger problem is is the manner in which the rape was implied. I've read in a fair few places that some rape victims don't see the physical sexual act as the worst aspect of it, rather the see the mental domination, and their subjugation as the really damaging part. And I've read that some psychologist say that rape for the rapist isn't about a simple sexual act, but about exerting control, both physical and mental over their victim, it's about empowering themselves through the act. And I think that's what the big problem is with what the guards were saying.

They were saying in response to the women refusing to give their names and addresses that they would arrest them (this all takes place in the private discussion in the squad car.) Imposing an arrest is what guards do. For them this is a perfectly acceptable exertion of their authority and control over a situation. Then they threatened the women with deportation. Not directly under their control, but something instigated by them. An extension of their control and authority over what were now prisoners (again, hypothetical threats, because they didn't actually say it to the women, who were in a different car.) Then the heinous part, they threaten the woman with rape. The ultimate exertion of dominance and control, demeaning and degrading. All along the guards extend the idea of their control over the women and how they will dominate them. Women who are under arrest and who have submitted completely. It's a total subjugation of the women. And that's what I think is the worst part.

The guards, using rape in a (not funny) joking manner, consider it to be the ultimate extension of the power they have over their prisoners. And that shows a complete lack of understanding of rape and a complete lack of understanding of their duty of care. Joking about rape is the lesser matter, the fact that they would consider rape to equate with their power of arrest is the really concerning part.

Great post. I took my leave of the AH debate because I was getting nowhere and the thread was actually making me angry.

And rape is ALWAYS about power and domination.

MissFlitworth

Hearing Gardai make jokes like that actually makes me feel a bit sh1te. It clearly is only a joke & I doubt they ever would have said anything like that in front of the women concerned or outside of their stupid, obnoxious posturing little group but it's still horrible to hear. They are supposed to be the people you turn to when you've been a victim, as they're Gardai they've probably been around the aftermath of rape before, that they could sit there and joke like that turns my stomach. I find Garda stations really hard to walk into at times, there's such an old-boys-club feeling about them (even though there are a shed load of women Gardai now), I couldn't imagine being a person been raped or assaulted and having to make myself walk into a Garda station if I thought that I'd be faced with the kind of person who thinks that rape as a form of control is hil-bloody-arious.

Edit: I think Buceph above hit it on the head for me. It's the 'do as your frickin told or I'll rape ya ahahahahaha' aspect of it that really gets me and squicks me out.

TippFan77

goose2005 wrote: »

In fairness the force has a strong tendency towards unprofessionalism.

I would say most guards are fine, but we know there's a few of the other kind. There was the operation of Heavy Gang in the 70s and 80s, the findings of the Morris tribunal in relation to events in Donegal, and the harrassment of anti-bloodsports protesters in the 1980s from which no convictions resulted. I often wonder why that Tribunal was confined to Donegal...as if guards up there were any worse than the ones elsewhere in Ireland.

It's not every day you actually catch them on tape like this of course. It's worrying in that it points to a certain attitude among certain Gardai and a vile attitude towards women. Anyone read On the Beat, the book by the ex-woman Garda? She details similar attitudes among Gardai she worked with. Very interesting read in the light of latest revelations.

That said, we need a police force and they're all that stand between us and a very dangerous place indeed. I wouldn't use this disturbing case to attack all Gardai, but it shows the force has some issues to sort out.

SuperInfinity

sandin wrote: »

stupid comments by some bored gardai given the unthankful task of controlling the rent a yob crowd at the corrib pipeline.

At least the gardai here don't shoot innocent people like happens in the UK (Mendes).

Are you cracked out of your mind altogether? How is it "unthankful" if they get paid for it?

Why don't they try finding a real job instead of enforcing the corperations right on people?

These garda should be arrested and thrown in prison. If it were ordinary people joking about such a crime as rape or murder it would be contemptable but a lot different. These gardai were on official business... crazy stuff.

What does an authority have to do before some of you people get it through your thick skulls that these people are clowns and every little bit of power you give these people they will abuse it???

TippFan77

sandin wrote: »

stupid comments by some bored gardai given the unthankful task of controlling the rent a yob crowd at the corrib pipeline.

At least the gardai here don't shoot innocent people like happens in the UK (Mendes).

I wouldn't call them "rent a mob" as that implies the protesters are being paid to protest. There's no evidence to support that claim-the protests are well motivated whether one agrees with tme or not- but we have evidence to support the fact that certain Gardai have a less than helpful attitude towards both peaceful protest and the role of women in society.

Ickle Magoo

SuperInfinity, attack the post not the poster please.

Folks, just a reminder that all replies should be civil and adhere to the charter and ethos of The Ladies Lounge, there are plenty of other forums having the same discussion for anyone wishing to discuss this in a different manner or from another angle.

Any issues with a post or poster then please use the report function.

Cheers :cool:

Bazzy

This video could be a fake the only thing you can really see is a police car at the start

They are also discussing the fact that they were working at heights and health and safety issues and the implications of them doing there job.

The fact that both of the ladies in question broke the law by refusing details and obstructing the road and the tractor

If the tractor knocked one of them down and the police seen it there would be uproar that the police did nothing.

To be fair they discussed the law and getting the persons down safely.

I'm not for one second condoning rape or any attacks on anyone. It was meant in jest i am sure amongst the 3 officers.

I am not a member of the police force but I feel this has been blown a bit out of proportion.

If it was said to one of the ladies in question then yes but it wasnt.

I'd say the protesters were rather excited when they looked back on this video

seaniefr

TippFan77 wrote: »

I wouldn't call them "rent a mob" as that implies the protesters are being paid to protest. There's no evidence to support that claim-the protests are well motivated whether one agrees with tme or not- but we have evidence to support the fact that certain Gardai have a less than helpful attitude towards both peaceful protest and the role of women in society.

would it be possible that these errant members of the force could be put on temporary re-assignment for a while-maybe if they were put dealing with rape cases or something along that line to maybe broaden their horizons a bit? There must be something that can be done as an alternative to tarring & feathering them. To quote some of the previous posters you have idiots in every profession and maybe a stint with a more balanced female/male posting might change their outlook. Wonder what the powers that be will do about about it?

jill_valentine

I'm sincerely shocked by some of the reactions to this, and how severely some of the posters elsewhere don't even recognise the right problem, never mind taking it seriously.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I grew up on a farm, was in the army reserve, I'm studying a subject that regularly leaves me the only girl in the room and I work in a videogame shop. In other words, I grew up and work almost solely with blokes, and I'm perfectly comfortable with just about the coarsest, darkest form of lad humour you can imagine. But the vast leagues by which a lot of guys are missing the point here is honestly mindblowing to me - everything from "Well they didn't actually MEAN to rape them" right over to "Well, they didn't actually SAY it to the women". It was a joke, and there's no disputing that. That's not the problem. Nor indeed was it actually said to the protestors, that's not the problem either.

It's not just a matter of the magical, tyrannical PC brigade rounding on a harmless bit of banter between a few lads on the schoolbus, these are the people who deal with real rapes, entrusted with a position of power to that end. The immeasurable damage something like this does to the exchange of trust between sex crime victims and law enforcement takes an awful lot of undoing, with potentially dreadful consequences in the meantime. I'm really taken aback and dismayed by just how many fellas don't recognise what's actually appalling about these comments.

I like guys, I like hanging out in the company of guys, and although I'm obviously not going to tar every bloke with the same brush after watching the arguments about this unfold, the sheer number of dudes who just don't get it is startling.

But then, on the other side, the fact that the far left are drawing equivalences to places like Bahrain and Libya - and thus presenting by innuendo the idea that the threat of rape was used as an interrogation tool, when it was most certainly not - is almost as disgraceful. It's a grotesquely intellectually dishonest way to score points against AGS for propaganda purposes, and it undermines every actual charge against the Gardai in the eyes of the wider public. Hugely irresponsible of people to diminish the credibility of the real accusations by propagating easily disproven falsehoods.

Ickle Magoo

jill valentine, insulting other forums and posters on other forums is not permitted in The Ladies Lounge.

jill_valentine

My bad, edited accordingly.

Irish Fire

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Are you cracked out of your mind altogether? How is it "unthankful" if they get paid for it?

Why don't they try finding a real job instead of enforcing the corperations right on people?

These garda should be arrested and thrown in prison. If it were ordinary people joking about such a crime as rape or murder it would be contemptable but a lot different. These gardai were on official business... crazy stuff.

What does an authority have to do before some of you people get it through your thick skulls that these people are clowns and every little bit of power you give these people they will abuse it???

What do you mean by "these people"?

You also say "Why don't they try finding a real job instead of enforcing the corperations right on people?" Do you imply by this comment that AGS be disbanded?

You I feel would be the first person up in arms if AGS were not there at the drop of a hat to assist you when needed.

Having read all the posts about this here this evening I get the feeling that the majority need to firstly go back to school and learn how to spell and stop tarring all members of AGS with the same brush there are fine members of AGS out there striving to make our country safer etc...... So folks you need to cop on........

Memnoch

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Apart from the tragic death of Jean Charles de Menezes spawning two investigations, a corporate criminal prosecution and an inquest which I would consider serious consequences, I could follow your example and justify it because at least the UK police force don't drag children off and beat them to death like they do in other countries - I'm not sure what on earth that has to do with anything or how such reductionism solves anything...

Not to drag this off topic but those investigations were a total white wash. Not a single person was forced to take responsibility for shooting an entirely innocent human being dead in cold blood.

To say these were serious consequences is an affront to the idea of justice and freedom. Though your point is right, comparing what happened here to what happened/happens elsewhere is pointless.

P.S. An inquest where the jury were instructed that they COULD NOT issue a verdict of unlawful killing.

Spacedog

That pipeline has no rightful business going ahead. There have been many recorded incidents of gardai being abusive to protesters and acting as nothing more than shells private security service.

I think it a disgrace that the Green Party never had the balls when in government to confront this issue. As Ray Burkes' corruption that is be honoured in the planning and construction of this pipeline, underlines the problem of political corruption in Irish politics since the formation of the state.

To their credit, these gardai seem concerned with the safety of the protesters, even if it's so far as their own liability, but the attitude behind the joking about the arrest of innocent people (one girl being arrested for holding a camera) is disturbing. I feel they are in an awkward position, given orders to secure a construction project and marginalise a justifiable resistance, through arrests without charge, while keeping the profile low enough to not warrant excessive media attention.

I find it fascinating to be a fly on the windscreen in a garda car though. makes you wonder what else goes on in their heads, especially the ones power trippy ones.

I wonder that the female garda at the start of the tape thinks of them. she is heard professionally reassuring a protester that she is not in danger in their custody. then the lads start banging on about rape 5 mins later. Makes for an awkward conversation in Micky Ds tonight.

Ickle Magoo

Memnoch wrote: »

Not to drag this off topic but those investigations were a total white wash. Not a single person was forced to take responsibility for shooting an entirely innocent human being dead in cold blood.

Events at stockton and the preceding events were a little more complex than just forcing someone to take responsibility for killing an innocent man - though don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not holding up the metropolitan police as a paragon of virtue.

Memnoch

I don't really care how complex the situation was, or how many "mistakes," were made. Killing an innocent human being should have severe consequences so that people think twice the next time before pulling the trigger and this doesn't happen again.

Do we say that if some militant accidentally shoots a civilian. 'Hey I was aiming for a military bunker sorry for accidentally taking down those towers?' Maybe Al Queda missed a trick as well as the rest of the terrorists. All they gotta do is claim accidental collateral damage henceforth and we can absolve all their sins.

Or is it only complex and no one person's responsibility when democratic police and army kill innocent people, by accident or design?