Would you mind if i ask

faolteam

I am a member of a family of 9, My Father and mother has passed away and there is soon going to be a family house sold which will be divided between the children

i have now heard that one of teh children who has died a few years ago their sibling is not entitled to a share of this house ,

is this true that if the person has died the sibling loses their fathers share ?

Milk & Honey

It appears that you don't know what a sibling is. All of you are siblings of the one who died.

Neyite

When you say sibling;

Do you mean offspring - as in a child of the brother/sister that died, or do you mean the spouse -wife/husband of the brother/sister that died?

faolteam

sorry i mean an offspring

NoQuarter

If I remember my Succession Act correctly the deceased sibling is entitled to their share.

Was there a will?

faolteam

for sure

Jagle

I have no idea technically, but i do remember a conversation about this i heard and if that person was correct then yes the offspring of a sibling, to which the siblings parents are dead are entitled to a share, tho i guess a call to a lawyer would clear this up

NoQuarter

Succession Act, 1965

View Full Act

Shares of surviving spouse and issue.
[New. See 1695 (c. 6) ss. 1, 2, 3]
67.—(1) If an intestate dies leaving a spouse and no issue, the spouse shall take the whole estate.







(3) If an intestate dies leaving issue and no spouse, his estate shall be distributed among the issue in accordance with subsection (4).

(4) If all the issue are in equal degree of relationship to the deceased the distribution shall be in equal shares among them; if they are not, it shall be per stirpes.


---


As far as I remember, the share for the deceased will be held on trust and go to his dependents if there is any, i'm sure someone will clarify soon.

hession.law

I believe noquater is right, so if there were originally three children and one has died and assuming there is no spouse an estate would be divided 1/3 each to the two remaining children and if the child who has dead has left children his 1/3 share will be divided among them. So lets there are two children then they get 1/6 of the estate each.

coylemj

If the estate is being divided between surviving siblings owing to the intestacy of the deceased (no will) i.e. there is no surviving spouse or parent, then the children of deceased siblings divide up their parent's share, this is known as per stirpes.

If there is no surviving sibling so that the next of kin are all nieces and nephews, they divide the estate equally.

faolteam

Ok let me explain this a bit easier, originally the house was been rented and someone mentioned at that time that if the house was not bought of the corporation and anything hapened the mother of the house it would rocket in rent

So the mother and 3 of the kids all put up 2000 each to pay off the house,

when they tried to sell the house a few years ago ther was a dispute from 2 of the kids who felt they were entitled to a quarter of the share of the house plus a share of the mothers share now there was no contract doen for this : so now they have decided to sell again but this time they are going to sell and then and if it is sold decide how the money is distributed but already the knifes are out so this is how it stands now


there were 11 kids,

3 paid a quarter share but no contract was written and one of the 3 has passed away

3 have passed away,


1 has no spouse or kids,
1 was not married at the time but has 4 kids,
1 has no spouse but 1 childthe rest are still alive , can you let me know what happens to the first 3 peoples share highlighted in red

coylemj

Is the house in the mother's name? If so, the family will need to take out a grant of administration on her estate in order to have the house validly sold on, otherwise nobody will buy it.

If some of your siblings chipped in money to help your mother to buy the house and if she didn't cut them in as part owners of the house then the money they handed over would be legally be considered as a gift so they have no claim on her estate arising out of this contribution.

The way I see it, the house was owned in her own right by your mother so it is part of her estate and if she died intestate (no will), then the estate will be divided up among her surviving children and grandchildren on the basis of per stirpes which we've already explained above.

On the basis of the information you've supplied in your last post, the estate of your mother would be split as follows....

The eight surviving children of your mother (including you) will receive 1/10 each.

The four children of your deceased sibling will receive 1/40 each i.e. they share the 1/10 share of their parent.

The sole child of your other deceased sibling will receive 1/10 i.e. the share of his/her parent.

The estate of your sibling who predeceased you and who left no children gets nothing.

faolteam

house is in the mothers name,and the grant of administration has started thanks

234

coylemj wrote: »

Is the house in the mother's name? If so, the family will need to take out a grant of administration on her estate in order to have the house validly sold on, otherwise nobody will buy it.

If some of your siblings chipped in money to help your mother to buy the house and if she didn't cut them in as part owners of the house then the money they handed over would be legally be considered as a gift so they have no claim on her estate arising out of this contribution.

The way I see it, the house was owned in her own right by your mother so it is part of her estate and if she died intestate (no will), then the estate will be divided up among her surviving children and grandchildren on the basis of per stirpes which we've already explained above.

On the basis of the information you've supplied in your last post, the estate of your mother would be split as follows....

The eight surviving children of your mother (including you) will receive 1/10 each.

The four children of your deceased sibling will receive 1/40 each i.e. they share the 1/10 share of their parent.

The sole child of your other deceased sibling will receive 1/10 i.e. the share of his/her parent.

The estate of your sibling who predeceased you and who left no children gets nothing.

If the children made direct contributions to the purchase price then they have a stong claim for an equitable interets held on a resulting trust.

faolteam

i try again

the house is in the mothers name she died and left no will and her spouse is dead

apparently 3 other children put up a quarter share.

there are 11 kids,

and 3 have passed away :

1 has no spouse or kids, and they out up a quarter share
1 was not married at the time but has 4 kids,
1 has no spouse but 1 child

the other 8 are still alive

the 1 that died and has no spouse just want to be sure that there sibling is entitled to there late fathers share ?

Milk & Honey

You still don't appear to know what a sibling is. Your mother apparently only contributed one quarter of the purchase price. On that basis, in equity she has only a quarter share of the proceeds of the sale of the house. However one of the other quarter contributors has died unmarried and without issue. If he predeceased his mother his share would, if not passed by will go to your mother. Thus half of the proceeds fall to be distributed between her children. Of those of her children who have died with issue, their children divide what would have their parents share. Where a deceased child of one of your mothers children has only one child that child is entitled to the full share the parent would have got if the parent had survived.
In a situation like that it would be better to have a deed of family arrangement drawn up with an agreed split, so there can be no acrimony afterwards.

faolteam

It seems that i have been informed that if the house sells for under 120,000 or less the sibling whose father has passed away will not get a share because of the under value of the house,

has anybody heard this ?

FreudianSlippers

faolteam wrote: »

It seems that i have been informed that if the house sells for under 120,000 or less the sibling whose father has passed away will not get a share because of the under value of the house,

has anybody heard this ?

My head hurts reading this thread.

So, I'm gathering that the siblings do not have the same father - that is, there are 11 siblings (3 dead, 8 alive)... They all have the same mother but one has a different father who died and the house went to the mother. Now that the mother is dead, the issue (child) of the deceased father wants to know if he is fully entitled to the father's property or if he must share it with his 7 living siblings and/or the issue of the 3 deceased (technically 2) siblings.

Oh, wait no. because some of the children contributed to the purchase price of the home. shíte, thought I had it. brain = broken

melekalikimaka

can you define sibling pleaseeee

FreudianSlippers

Siblings (or brothers and sisters to most people) are people who are related to each other as they share at least one parent.

Full siblings = both the same biological parents.
3/4 siblings = one biological parent the same, other two biological parents are full siblings.
1/2 siblings = one biological parent the same



I know this was directed @faolteam, but I couldn't help myself

Milk & Honey

I hope you are that "sibling" and you get nothing. For persisting in using that word out of context and causing confusion, you don't deserve to inherit anything.

faolteam

im neither a sibling or a child , i will inherit nothing, if u dont want to contribute to this forum , Dont there is a good chap i would prefer if you didnt thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

faolteam wrote: »

im neither a sibling or a child , i will inherit nothing, .

Now, I'm totally confused. You said it was your Mother's house and she had 11 kids, so you are a Sibling of the other 10 AND you would therefore inherit something. Explain please!:rolleyes:

NoQuarter

faolteam wrote: »

I am a member of a family of 9,

faolteam wrote: »

im neither a sibling or a child

You're not the dog are you???

faolteam

of my Father who has Parkinson's Diease,

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You said your Mother & Father were dead.

Care to start again???

faolteam

i am writing this for my father who has parkinson, his father and mother have passed away, Whats this 24 questions ?

Meteoric

faolteam wrote: »

i am writing this for my father who has parkinson, his father and mother have passed away, Whats this 24 questions ?

I'm is not justified, people here have tried hard to interpret what you posted and give you good advice despite what you post being very confusing. They just want information to give you an opinion.

I'm not a legal person but I'm trying to make sense of your posts.

If all children are of the same mother and father and the father died without a will it may be that your grandmother (or great grandmother the posts are horribly confusing, lets call her Nan) inherited the house outright. When someone dies without a will in general the spouse is entitled to 2/3rds of the estate and the remaining 1/3rd is distributed among the children of the person who died. But if Nan was a tenant in common with her husband she may have inherited the house outright.

I'm going to assume that all children are from this relationship, if some of the children are from another relationship that should have been sorted out when Nans husband died. Or the house was bought from the council after Nan's husband died.

So assuming Nan owned the house outright when she died without a will, from what you said, the children each inherit. As here is no other heir to the estate of Nans child who died without children, their share reverts to the mother so gets shared between the others, so each gets a 1/10th share of the total. If they are dead and have a child or children their share goes to them and is distributed to the children of Nans child.

If as you say 3 of the children contributed to buying the house, without a written agreement to what this entailed, including one who has passed away, they probably, from what other people have said, could make a case for more of the estate to go to them, this will involve lawyers and costs and proof of the contribution. It is not clear from your posts if the one who is dead who contributed is the one with children.

I'm not a legal anything but this is how I read the laws on intestacy. I could well be wrong, my relations general opinion has been the legal fees involved in a court case would generally eat up any gain to the individual in legal fees involved in challenging the rules. And given what you have posted, no-one can actually know the circumstances.

faolteam

let me simplify it even more,

yes all children were from the same family

when the father died they were renting the place,

it was advised at the time to Nan and the 4 siblings living in the house that if anything happened Nan the rent would jump up mad

So it was then that the ball got into motion and nan and 3 children go the money to buy the house, no contracts were written but nans name went on the deeds,

few years ago they tried to sell the house and i can remeber the three children who put the money up wanted the other children to sign a way a waiver that would entitle them to a quarter of a share

Hope that helps

234

In general, people who contribute money to the purchase price of a house have no automatic entitlement to a share in the absence of an agreement. They may have a beneficial interest but this would have to be declared by a court.

Milk & Honey

234 wrote: »

In general, people who contribute money to the purchase price of a house have no automatic entitlement to a share in the absence of an agreement. They may have a beneficial interest but this would have to be declared by a court.

Unless one of the exceptions applies, there is a presumption of a resulting trust in favour of the person who paid over money. This presumption is seen in action from time to time in the "Lotto ticket" cases. If someone proves they contributed to the purchase price of the winning ticket, they are given a pro rata share of the winnings, whether or not their name is on the ticket.

In view of the fact that the o/p has been so obscure and insulting, I feel that it is likely that there is more to this which has not been revealed and which could change the outcome. Who knows what other debts there are in the estate?

234

Yes, that exctly what I mean. There is no automatic legal entitlement but you can go to court and try to prove a equitable interest held on a resulting trust. With homes it is more complicated then with lotto tickets, the courts look at a wider range of factors when determining what share should be given.

faolteam

by been obscure and insulting ?

and there are no other debts in the estate

Diairist

sorry...

is there a book on how to take out probate in Ireland? Every so often Pat Kenny / Joe Duffy has a widow ringing in to say how you don't need a solicitor and she has / will publish a book to prove it's easy to do. Did such a book get published?

thanks