Govt seeks support for bailout negotiations

Scofflaw

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has said he is launching a new diplomatic initiative across the European Union to win political support for Ireland in its rescue package negotiations.

He says the new Government is keen to get a better deal on the bailout from the EU, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

Minister Eamon Gilmore said he will invite the ambassadors of the EU states to briefings.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's This Week, the Tánaiste said he would also seek a series of bilateral meetings with his European counterparts.

Mr Gilmore said Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Minister for Finance Michael Noonan would also take part in what he said would be a 'co-ordinated diplomatic drive' in Europe to win political support.

Source: RTE

So I should hope. I don't think people are fully aware of how much damage the Fianna Fáil governments did to our engagement with Europe - one reason why we're having a tough time at the moment in negotiations is because our government didn't keep our European profile burnished during the last decade - and while we now have some very senior Irish people in the EU, once they retire they won't be replaced, because, again, for the last decade Irish people haven't entered the EU.

Very good article to that effect in the IT:

IRELAND IS more deeply entangled with its partners in the European Union as a result of the banking crisis and the measures taken by the new Government to resolve it. That is part of a more general process called Europeanisation by writers on the subject. It makes European issues part of domestic politics. Politicisation of the issues makes them contentious and contested within that space.

Both elements are now more fully incorporated in Ireland’s political culture. Political actors from other EU member states now participate more in Irish political debates. In recent weeks and months we have heard German, French, Finnish, Greek, Portuguese and Italian political and expert voices on the airwaves and in other media to an unprecedented extent. Increasingly they are recognised as legitimate participants in discussions about common European problems.

The obverse also applies. We understand better now that the Irish voice around the rest of the EU system diminished during the boom years, leaving us much weaker in dealing with fallout from its collapse. Ministerial participation in council meetings, informal networking and Irish employment in the institutions all decreased and badly need to be restored.

Since the flipside of making demands on the system is that there be adequate voice within it, this is a serious matter. Just as Europeanisation goes beyond political leaderships, so should participation in EU politics by interest groups, political parties, social movements and citizens.

It suits those leaderships to monopolise participation so far as they can, since this reinforces their gatekeeping role. Sitting governments are empowered by the system – and increasingly so by its growing inter-governmental character which diminishes the position of the commission in maintaining a balance between smaller and larger states. They try to monopolise access to media in other states for the same reasons.

But politicising the substance of EU policies among citizens makes such a monopoly more and more difficult to maintain. Especially so when the cost is as heavy as it is proving to be for citizens in Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain – and is perceived to be by citizens in Germany, Finland, Austria and France who believe they are being asked to bail out profligate leaders and electorates in southern “peripheral” states.

This is, as the article says, an extremely important issue for Ireland. The weaker the EU itself - particularly in the form of the Commission and the Parliament - the more Europe moves towards a "Europe of Nations". And Ireland's role in a "Europe of Nations" is as a small peripheral economy whose interests can be entirely ignored by the large states.

I appreciate that saying that last will evoke some responses along the lines of "but they're ignoring our interests right now", to which the answer is what we're seeing isn't them entirely ignoring our interests, but is certainly a good deal closer to how things would ordinarily be for us in a Europe of nations, as a result of our government's long failure to keep its European alliances active through the years of apparent prosperity.

cordially,
Scofflaw

later12

Pat Cox gave a truly terrible interview on Marian Finucane last Saturday a.m. where inbetween exuding self importance and raving over Europe's patience in dealing with Insolent Ireland, he made one very good point about Ireland's altered status within Europe, to the effect that you have outlined above.

It is undoubtedly true that Ireland has compromised its esteem in Europe, but this will not be addressed by inviting Sarko and Angela Merkel for a go on the Dublin Tour Bus, or packing them both into the back of a Fiat Uno and carting them around the Gap of Dunloe.

We have to look away from buddy politics. I realise that is at times an alien idea for an Irish electorate, but our policies, both European and domestic, must be based on sound economic and/ or political principles alone. That is what must attract our European colleagues to them, not the familarity of friendship.

This is a ridiculously transparent attempt at seeking to change the opinions of our fellow Europeans (opinions they have, presumably, reached through their versions of logic and information) and trying to change them through a bit of nod-nod-wink-wink.

Why not actually try to convince them of our case on its merit alone?
And if it has no merit (which may be the case), then of what, exactly, are we trying to convince them!

We don't need friends. We need sound, logical policy.

Scofflaw

later10 wrote: »

Pat Cox gave a truly terrible interview on Marian Finucane last Saturday a.m. where inbetween exuding self importance and raving over Europe's patience in dealing with Insolent Ireland, he made one very good point about Ireland's altered status within Europe, to the effect that you have outlined above.

It is undoubtedly true that Ireland has compromised its esteem in Europe, but this will not be addressed by inviting Sarko and Angela Merkel for a go on the Dublin Tour Bus, or packing them both into the back of a Fiat Uno and carting them around the Gap of Dunloe.

We have to look away from buddy politics. I realise that is at times an alien idea for an Irish electorate, but our policies, both European and domestic, must be based on sound economic and/ or political principles alone. That is what must attract our European colleagues to them, not the familarity of friendship.

This is a ridiculously transparent attempt at seeking to change the opinions of our fellow Europeans (opinions they have, presumably, reached through their versions of logic and information) and trying to change them through a bit of nod-nod-wink-wink.

Why not actually try to convince them of our case on its merit alone?
And if it has no merit (which may be the case), then of what, exactly, are we trying to convince them!

We don't need friends. We need sound, logical policy.

The two aren't - indeed, mustn't be - exclusive!

While I'm undeniably pro-EU, I like to think that I'm pro-EU from a realistic position, and perhaps more importantly from a pro-Irish position. The traditional bulk of pro-EU opinion in Ireland has been a fairly uninformed one - largely based on the regular infusions of cash and the fact that belonging to the EU made us feel less isolated and more modern. The contrary view, of eurosceptic nationalism, is perhaps even more emotionally based - to the point of romanticism - there's no cash involved, but the idea of Ireland having a meaningful freedom to exercise sovereignty in a Europe of nations is risible.

I'm not in favour of either of those positions, because I don't consider them adult ways of dealing with the realities of the situation. And unfortunately it's often the case that when people believe they have 'moved on' from those very naive positions, what they have really adopted as a position is in fact only a slightly more knowing version of exactly the same fundamental positions - the idea that Europe can be "stood up to", for example, is a playground idea, while the idea that we should operate on some kind of chilly realpolitik often starts from the somewhat derisory premise that we're a player of any significance.

So while I agree that we need sound logical policy, we also need to remember that there is no "Europe" - or, rather, that "Europe" is a place. Inter-personal contacts, inter-personal goodwill, is what creates goodwill for Ireland, and that goodwill is a genuine and real asset, whose lack we are currently feeling. We need sound logical policy, yes - but we also need friends.

cordially,
Scofflaw

later12

Scofflaw wrote: »

So while I agree that we need sound logical policy, we also need to remember that there is no "Europe" - or, rather, that "Europe" is a place. Inter-personal contacts, inter-personal goodwill, is what creates goodwill for Ireland, and that goodwill is a genuine and real asset, whose lack we are currently feeling. We need sound logical policy, yes - but we also need friends.

The friendship aspect is insignificant. If we cannot persuade a European member state (or rather, the majority of the member states) of the merits of an Irish Crisis Policy then we have to accept that there may be very sound economic reasoning why such member states are all pulling on the opposite side of the rope. It does quite reek of "they're all marching wrong except my Johnny".

A big part of the problem with the Eurozone is that it was originally built on political and amicable fundamentals (trying to integrate Eastern Europe with West) instead of sound economic principles (integrated fiscal policy, treasury co-operation, treasury controls and the single market).

We do not create a sound economic base by political co-operation. That is putting the cart before the horse. We create a sound political base by economic cooperation. In other words, the economics are fundamental to the thing and they must be cast soundly before we can start considering friendship and alliances.

Throwing out invitations to come and enjoy Ireland and see what a grand lot we really are just smacks of failure of the state to convince our European partners of the merits of that which we propose on a logical basis. We now, apparently, propose it on the basis of friendship.
If the economic principles are sound, and there for all to see, why would Ireland need friends?

It would be fair to say that Greece are held in lower esteem than Ireland across the EU and yet they have recently managed an interest rate reduction. On the other side, Enda Kenny is particularly popular with some of the senior European figures (sarko excluded). I'm not saying that this proves anything in itself, however it does detract from the importance of friendships at the heart of Europe.

Scofflaw

later10 wrote: »

The friendship aspect is insignificant. If we cannot persuade a European member state (or rather, the majority of the member states) of the merits of an Irish Crisis Policy then we have to accept that there may be very sound economic reasoning why such member states are all pulling on the opposite side of the rope. It does quite reek of "they're all marching wrong except my Johnny".

A big part of the problem with the Eurozone is that it was originally built on political and amicable fundamentals (trying to integrate Eastern Europe with West) instead of sound economic principles (integrated fiscal policy, treasury co-operation, treasury controls and the single market).

We do not create a sound economic base by political co-operation. That is putting the cart before the horse. We create a sound political base by economic cooperation. In other words, the economics are fundamental to the thing and they must be cast soundly before we can start considering friendship and alliances.

Throwing out invitations to come and enjoy Ireland and see what a grand lot we really are just smacks of failure of the state to convince our European partners of the merits of that which we propose on a logical basis. We now, apparently, propose it on the basis of friendship.
If the economic principles are sound, and there for all to see, why would Ireland need friends?

It would be fair to say that Greece are held in lower esteem than Ireland across the EU and yet they have recently managed an interest rate reduction. On the other side, Enda Kenny is particularly popular with some of the senior European figures (sarko excluded). I'm not saying that this proves anything in itself, however it does detract from the importance of friendships at the heart of Europe.

In respect of our current specific issues, it may well be too late for such a diplomatic initiative to have an effect on the basis of goodwill alone. However, to the extent that it represents part of a wider re-engagement with Europe, it's undeniably welcome. In the long run, everything is politics.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ashleey

It is undeniably a good idea. Have you ever noticed in those group photos of the leaders how there is definitely the odd awkward glances when they line up and who they do or do not want to stand next to? The last one nearly looked like a scramble to get away from Berlosconi.

There is a mindset that 'we gave you money for years and your roads are still rubbish and then you blew up your banks and some of ours who set up there too' that will only be changed by politics and not by lame schmoozing though,