A US perspective

Grizzly 45

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/ireland.html

Either we have distingushed people reading boards.ie/shooting.:D
Or somone has been passing on info to him.
OK,he is more known for RTKBA stuff.But this is a very neutral historically factual article that sums up the past,present and future without too many clangers,and remember also,it is written for a US audience.
Quite nice for pub discussion.:)

bazza888

a great read grizzly,all though it does make me feel sick that we still live in a place where people can make up rules as they go based on there own likes or dislikes :mad:. If i was minister could i ban high performance cars as theres no need for a car or vehicle that can go over 120kph as thats our highest speed limit and far more people die in car acccidents due to excessive speed than in accidents or crimes related to legaly held guns!!

marlin vs

Very good read Grizz.

Sparks

Grizz, that thing's ridiculous. It's about as reasonably accurate as a walther p22 at 1000yds, one-handed while blindfolded. The 1 joule limit didn't come in in 1920, it came in in 2006. Airguns weren't covered by the law until the 1964 Act. The TCO was in 1972, not 1973. The firearms taken in 1973 were never confiscated, if they had been we'd have had other legal avenues open to us that we didn't. We don't have to provide mental health records to get a licence, we just have to state we have no mental health issues. Centerfire pistols are not outlawed. They're in danger, yes, but a single SI could reverse that situation completely in a matter of days. If he has proof that 16 out of 28 Chief Supers have issued orders to deny handgun certificates, then he's stabbing us all in the back by not printing it because that would cause sufficient stink up and down the country if handled correctly that we'd have our SI inside of a month. There are three test cases, not eight, and the NARGC is not financially supporting these cases (Des Crofton has stated this very explicitly and it's been stated over and again since). Tony Martin didn't go to prison for shooting a burglar; he went to prison for booby-trapping his house, ambushing two burglars and then perjuring himself in court when defending his actions. And the home defence bill does not change the existing law. It just puts into statute what currently resides in case law. The law itself, the actual rules, do not change. And there has never, ever been a requirement to retreat in your own home the way he describes.


Seriously Grizzly, stupid **** like that article does us harm. There are people who want to see our firearms gone. If our arguments for keeping them are as weak-minded and factually incorrect as that article is, we will lose our firearms. :mad:

Grizzly 45

No need to shoot the messanger Sparks!
I posted this in good faith ,and with a disclaimer that it is written from a US perspective!!Good you that you spotted these inaccruacies,maybe an email to Mr Kopel from your self would be in order to straighten the record.

knockon

Sparks wrote: »

Centerfire pistols are not outlawed

To quote yourself Sparks:

"The Criminal Justice (Misc.Provisions) Act 2009 banned handguns over .22 calibre that weren't already licenced"

- Sounds to me like CF Pistols are outlawed.

My relative said his gun was taken from him in 73. Taken , confiscated all sound the same really. Mixing up words here and there.

You ok Grizz?

Sparks

knockon wrote: »

Sounds to me like CF Pistols are outlawed.

They're not outlawed. Some are still licenced. Outlawed would be "you just can't have one, stop asking". Our current situation is "they're restricted, and you can't get a licence for a restricted pistol". As I've said before, it takes one SI to change the restricted list.

Mixing up words here and there.

It's law knockon; words matter.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

maybe an email to Mr Kopel from your self would be in order to straighten the record.

Have you read the man's blog? He's a conspiracy nut. An email to him trying to explain reality would be a waste of time.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

................. He's a conspiracy nut. An email to him trying to explain reality would be a waste of time.

Aithníonn cíaróg cíaróg eile

What amazes me is all this money the Government are wasting and nobody has jumped on it !

Sparks

It's more that his blog is called "The Volokh Conspiracy" which gives it away Bunny...

pedroeibar1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

..............But this is a very neutral historically factual article that sums up the past,present and future without too many clangers,

Sorry Grizz, it is not factual in the context used, nor is it neutral. It is a completely slanted / biased POS. Even in his opening paragraphs the guy shows he has no understanding of the Penal Laws or how and where they were enforced. People like him use any excuse to put the frighteners on US gunowners to drive up the revenue flow to their coffers.
It has nothing to do with us here and as this BB is not the place to discuss his historical errors, I'll say no more.
Rs,
P.
which he is off to cut himself a lump of blackthorn to make another shillelagh, as there do be a dance at the crossroads tonight.

Grizzly 45

As I said ,it is written for and from a US perspective..IOW for a bunch of people that are betimes semi literate and have in 75% of the case never set foot outside the United States.If they know where Ireland is,that would be a first and then they assume it is a Darby O Gill/Quiet man Top o the Morin to ye movie set,where we are all running around with Thompsons and trench coats shooting at the British
.Or we are all dying of the consumption in very rainy cities,while having massive guilt trips about sexuality enforced by the Catholic church as Frank Mc Court described his miserable childhood in Limerick
Or that we have a goodly supply of Waterford Crystal fruitbowls that we drop into the White house every March 17th.That is a average perspective that an American would have on Ireland.
So it is abit much to expect that Joe Gunowner USA is going to be up on all the exact details and nuances of Irish history???Especially our gun laws.

After all, are we 100% up on the second amendment,and it's many clauses and supreme court decisions as to when or not,it applies? Or the latest BATFE ruling or screwup??

Thing is ;we dont see much mention of our firearms laws in the US firearms media in any shape or form.Last time I saw anything about the ROI situation was in the 1980s in a Guns and Ammo editorial of about a paragraph length.

So is it really a big deal to them over wether our airguns are one joule or not or liscensed in 1965 or 1865???
Point is; he is also using broadsheet tactics to get his message across in the same way a red banner chip wrapper would use to disprage us as well.
IOW broad detail not 100% accruate or truthful either..If the Murdochian press and TV can do it...??? what his motives are...Do we really care??
Fair dues to him if he makes a lving from it.

Like I said its an American perspective..Go complain to him ..not me! I didnt write it!:rolleyes: If you all belive he is a American conspircy nut or whatever.. fine...I'm sure we have simply thousands of Americans who are 100% up on our gun laws writing factually about Little ol Eire every night on blogs across the internet to refute him.
Truth is; No one gives a toss over there about us and our gun law problems.They will read this go "yeah whatever...Dumb Irish schmucks...No wonder they all left and came over here!!Now whatabout the Alien baby Hillary Clinton had last week??"

And over here its no that is wrong ,this is wrong,written by a typical conspircy nut Yank who knows nothing at all about our situation.Pick this apart and it MUST be 10000% factual as otherwise the PTB will use a US blog to confiscate everything that we have !!!:rolleyes:.

Honestly..Sorry I botherd putting this up!!:mad:

Sparks

Grizz, I wouldn't expect any american to know about our gun laws. I also don't bother reading about their opinions on them because they have the privilege of having a constitutional right in their country that we don't have here, but for some reason they seem to think that that is our fault every time you mention the fact to them. Apart from one board (target talk), all their firearms boards seem to focus not on sport, but on shooting each other. Which is why I don't bother reading them much anymore either.
Noone's asking them to change; but if you're going to post the worst of their dross here, where AGS and DoJ readers could come to believe that Irish target shooters think that way; could you at least read it first to see if it's in any way accurate or at least not pants-on-head retarded?

Thread closed.