Abortion legislation, 3 months to go

Lefticus Loonaticus

The government has 3 months left to submit an action plan on how they are going to legislate for abortion. It was a six month deadline by the european court of human rights, 3 months have passed.

Ive read a few possible scenarios, i dont know which will happen, if any at all.

If they kick to touch they will get hammered by europe, so that most likely will be out of the question.

Will they bring in (proper)legislation for women that are ill to be allowed abortion, and/or going further - allowing it to be interpretted on mental health grounds, thus making it practically on demand? Surely this sly manouver would be spotted a mile off by the prolifers, and chaos would ensue at the mere mention of it.

If they dont wanna deal with it, but cant avoid it, will they trigger a referendum and take all political hands off deck while the public goes into civil war mode on the thorniest of all issues?

The disgraceful abuse of womens rights aside, this is gonna be one entertaining debacle as it plays out. Could it even cause political instability?

Wheather it goes this way or that way, or even some other way, it has to go some way, and only 3 months to go.

The time is ticking, which way do you think it will go?

beeftotheheels

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

The government has 3 months left to submit an action plan on how they are going to legislate for abortion. It was a six month deadline by the european court of human rights, 3 months have passed.

Ive read a few possible scenarios, i dont know which will happen, if any at all.

If they kick to touch they will get hammered by europe, so that most likely will be out of the question.

Will they bring in (proper)legislation for women that are ill to be allowed abortion, and/or going further - allowing it to be interpretted on mental health grounds, thus making it practically on demand? Surely this sly manouver would be spotted a mile off by the prolifers, and chaos would ensue at the mere mention of it.

If they dont wanna deal with it, but cant avoid it, will they trigger a referendum and take all political hands off deck while the public goes into civil war mode on the thorniest of all issues?

The disgraceful abuse of womens rights aside, this is gonna be one entertaining debacle as it plays out. Could it even cause political instability?

Wheather it goes this way or that way, or even some other way, it has to go some way, and only 3 months to go.

The time is ticking, which way do you think it will go?

Don't think they can go to a referendum. The ECHR has told us to get our house in order and as such a referendum failing to pass would be no excuse.

That said, the ECHR doesn't wield the biggest of sticks and as such if we fail to get our house in order there is little they can do - other than ensuring that any future cases which should be capable of being dealt with under Irish law, and aren't, will result in damages.

They're probably waiting for another case to hit the Supreme Court at which point in time the Supreme Court will be obliged to interpret the decision of the ECHR and effectively legislate on this allowing the politicians a free pass.

Lefticus Loonaticus

beeftotheheels wrote: »

That said, the ECHR doesn't wield the biggest of sticks and as such if we fail to get our house in order there is little they can do - other than ensuring that any future cases which should be capable of being dealt with under Irish law, and aren't, will result in damages.

They're probably waiting for another case to hit the Supreme Court at which point in time the Supreme Court will be obliged to interpret the decision of the ECHR and effectively legislate on this allowing the politicians a free pass.

Our last Attorney General in action -

(Ireland's Attorney General, Paul Gallagher, pleaded with 17 judges sitting in the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg to accept that Ireland's abortion laws sprang from "profound moral values" which are "deeply embedded" in the country's history and traditions. The Irish Republic's position on abortion was not something imposed on the nation but had been democratically endorsed in three referendums and enshrined in protocols attached to the European Union's Maastricht and Lisbon treaties.)

Given that the new AG, Máire Whelan, is both Labour and Female, would this change the situation at all? Surely if she was to be summoned to europe like the last guy, she would be very unlikely to put up such a zealous defence.

(Edit: i am unaware of what powers the Attorney General has with regard to our supreme courts.)

[Jackass]

Referendum please.

I'd be voting yes.

I think at very minimum it should be allowed for women with health risks, with pregnancies that are problematic and for rape victims, but I'd have it legal as a choice within the same time frame as the UK.

Essexboy

[Jackass] wrote: »

Referendum please.

I'd be voting yes.

I think at very minimum it should be allowed for women with health risks, with pregnancies that are problematic and for rape victims, but I'd have it legal as a choice within the same time frame as the UK.

You mean the UK, excluding Northern Ireland, where the law was never changed.

Nodin

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

The government has 3 months left to submit an action plan on how they are going to legislate for abortion. It was a six month deadline by the european court of human rights, 3 months have passed.

Ive read a few possible scenarios, i dont know which will happen, if any at all.

If they kick to touch they will get hammered by europe, so that most likely will be out of the question.

Will they bring in (proper)legislation for women that are ill to be allowed abortion, and/or going further - allowing it to be interpretted on mental health grounds, thus making it practically on demand? Surely this sly manouver would be spotted a mile off by the prolifers, and chaos would ensue at the mere mention of it.

If they dont wanna deal with it, but cant avoid it, will they trigger a referendum and take all political hands off deck while the public goes into civil war mode on the thorniest of all issues?

The disgraceful abuse of womens rights aside, this is gonna be one entertaining debacle as it plays out. Could it even cause political instability?

Wheather it goes this way or that way, or even some other way, it has to go some way, and only 3 months to go.

The time is ticking, which way do you think it will go?

I think you underestimate the power of the Irish politician to sit on, bury and delay the inconvenient for the sake of an easier life. Given that FG are the majority, I would not be optimistic with regard to anything concrete being done in the next 4 years.

Nodin

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

The government has 3 months left to submit an action plan on how they are going to legislate for abortion. It was a six month deadline by the european court of human rights, 3 months have passed.

Ive read a few possible scenarios, i dont know which will happen, if any at all.

If they kick to touch they will get hammered by europe, so that most likely will be out of the question.
................

PS - if all they have to do is submit an 'action plan' they can easily submit one that could allow them to postpone any moves for years.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Nodin wrote: »

I think you underestimate the power of the Irish politician to sit on, bury and delay the inconvenient for the sake of an easier life. Given that FG are the majority, I would not be optimistic with regard to anything concrete being done in the next 4 years.

Labour have the Attorney General.

Labour have previously ditched government with FF over the X case. (there were also other reasons at the time, to be fair, but this reason along with one other caused them to pull out.)

FG Need Labour more than Labour need FG. How can FG attempt to bring in another 4 years of sadistic budgets without Labour? They will have to capitulate on somthing. Would it not be a more than satisfying achievement of government for Labour to present to their voters? Voters that are already really pissed off.

Do not underestimate by how much Labour have FG by the balls on this one. Abortion, wheather for or against, is a far more important issue than economics to many people.

No time for fence sitting anymore, in 3 months the government has to come up with somthing, even if its only a piece of paper, its going to be a very interesting piece of paper.

nesf

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Labour have the Attorney General.

Labour have previously ditched government with FF over the X case. (there were also other reasons at the time, to be fair, but this reason along with one other caused them to pull out.)

FG Need Labour more than Labour need FG. How can FG attempt to bring in another 4 years of sadistic budgets without Labour? They will have to capitulate on somthing. Would it not be a more than satisfying achievement of government for Labour to present to their voters? Voters that are already really pissed off.

Do not underestimate by how much Labour have FG by the balls on this one. Abortion, wheather for or against, is a far more important issue than economics to many people.

No time for fence sitting anymore, in 3 months the government has to come up with somthing, even if its only a piece of paper, its going to be a very interesting piece of paper.

Yeah but Labour might decide they want to fight more for other areas than abortion and just go for a minimal approach and just follow the current legal rulings on the matter. Labour aren't a single issue party and it might still be too soon to push their abortion "agenda" on the public. Plus, other than a few individuals in the party, the party itself has not really pushed the issue very hard in recent years, yes they are the most progressive of any of the main parties by a long way but they are not rabid pro-choicers in terms of rhetoric or policy stance.

JonJoeDali

ECtHR "rulings" aren't binding.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

The government has 3 months left to submit an action plan on how they are going to legislate for abortion. It was a six month deadline by the european court of human rights, 3 months have passed.

Ive read a few possible scenarios, i dont know which will happen, if any at all.

If they kick to touch they will get hammered by europe, so that most likely will be out of the question.

Will they bring in (proper)legislation for women that are ill to be allowed abortion, and/or going further - allowing it to be interpretted on mental health grounds, thus making it practically on demand? Surely this sly manouver would be spotted a mile off by the prolifers, and chaos would ensue at the mere mention of it.

If they dont wanna deal with it, but cant avoid it, will they trigger a referendum and take all political hands off deck while the public goes into civil war mode on the thorniest of all issues?

The disgraceful abuse of womens rights aside, this is gonna be one entertaining debacle as it plays out. Could it even cause political instability?

Wheather it goes this way or that way, or even some other way, it has to go some way, and only 3 months to go.

The time is ticking, which way do you think it will go?

First one - that's what happened in the UK originally right?
Second - I didn't think they could trigger a referendum on it, surely it's a case of having to legislate with no alternatives.
Third - I doubt it. I sincerely hope there is no referendum because the sheer amount of misinformation being spread the last time was utterly appalling.
I understood there were previous irish court rulings on this as well that were just never legislated for? They need to fill that hole?