Buying a pedigree dog

Nononolan

Hi there,

I tried ringing the relevent breeds club for information but they havent got back to my emails so hoping someone can shed some light on the matter.

I have located a pedigree pup with prestigious lineage and micro chipped....my question is what documentation should I expect on purchase proving the above. The owner of the pups sourced a sire from a top uk breeder whom I rang to do some detective work and she verified the seller. I also rang the bitches kennel in Russia of all places and they verified the maternal lineage. I intend to use it as a stud dog in the future so want to have my affairs in order before I do anything.

Thank in advance.

ISDW

Going to cause offence now, but here we go.

If you don't know what paperwork you should get, then you shouldn't be looking to buy a dog for stud. Before you consider breeding you should be experienced with dogs and with that breed. It doesn't matter what the lineage of the dog, when the dog is old enough, you need to do all the health tests relevant to that breed, and if your dog has any genetic problems, should be neutered and not bred from. Its not as simple as buying a registered dog and thinking you can breed it. And the fact that you think that because the pup is microchipped is a selling point, shows your total inexperience. All IKC registered dogs have to be microchipped.

I would be very, very surprised if a reputable breeder, who has imported dogs to expand the gene pool would sell a pup to someone with no experience without endorsements. Endorsements are cavaets put onto the pups kennel club registration documents, and in this case it would be that you couldn't register any pups you may produce. So no pups that your dog sires would be kennel club registered.

The paperwork you should get are the registration documents from the Irish Kennel Club with the pups name etc and the parents details. You should also get the vaccination document, with details of vaccinations, flea and worming treatment given to date. Any registration documents from any other source - there is another registration list in Ireland - are not worth the paper they are written on.

Just for your information, the bottom has fallen out of the pedigree puppy market here, and breeders are having to slash their prices so there isn't money to be made out of breeding anymore. As the owner of the sire, you are just as responsible for the puppies as the owner of the dam, can you take back any puppies that new owners don't want, even when that puppy has grown up, and is 5, 6, 7 years old?

andreac

ISDW wrote: »

Going to cause offence now, but here we go.

If you don't know what paperwork you should get, then you shouldn't be looking to buy a dog for stud. Before you consider breeding you should be experienced with dogs and with that breed. It doesn't matter what the lineage of the dog, when the dog is old enough, you need to do all the health tests relevant to that breed, and if your dog has any genetic problems, should be neutered and not bred from. Its not as simple as buying a registered dog and thinking you can breed it. And the fact that you think that because the pup is microchipped is a selling point, shows your total inexperience. All IKC registered dogs have to be microchipped.

I would be very, very surprised if a reputable breeder, who has imported dogs to expand the gene pool would sell a pup to someone with no experience without endorsements. Endorsements are cavaets put onto the pups kennel club registration documents, and in this case it would be that you couldn't register any pups you may produce. So no pups that your dog sires would be kennel club registered.

The paperwork you should get are the registration documents from the Irish Kennel Club with the pups name etc and the parents details. You should also get the vaccination document, with details of vaccinations, flea and worming treatment given to date. Any registration documents from any other source - there is another registration list in Ireland - are not worth the paper they are written on.

Just for your information, the bottom has fallen out of the pedigree puppy market here, and breeders are having to slash their prices so there isn't money to be made out of breeding anymore. As the owner of the sire, you are just as responsible for the puppies as the owner of the dam, can you take back any puppies that new owners don't want, even when that puppy has grown up, and is 5, 6, 7 years old?

Excellent post:)
To answer your question, if you are purchasing the dog in Ireland, then you will need the IKC registration papers, provided that the dog is advertised as IKC reg.

Can i ask why you intend to use the dog at stud in the future? This is never decided before you get a dog. You have to prove the dog is of excellent quality and health before even considering this.

Pedigree dogs that are used for stud should be shown first and deemed of champion/excellent quality first, then health tested to rule out any breed specific problems and then and only once all of this has been done should you consider using that dog for stud.

Just because a dog has excellent lineage, pedigree etc doesnt not just automatically mean it should be used for stud.
Ive seen dogs with the best pedigree that should never, ever be bred from so dont just think this is a reason for breeding your dog.

Nononolan

Thanks for the replies guys and no offence taken. My utmost concern is getting a happy healthy family pet and if the opportunity arose in the future possibly breed him but can understand why a responible breeder would place cavaets. The idea about stud came to me because I ve been searching high and low in the republic for a giant schnauzer and it's taken a yr and a half to source so it might be an opportunity to expand the population. My intention is not to get him as an investment and make sure the selective breeding is documented so I have piece of mind. Those health checks are probably a good idea irregardless of breeding so what age would you suggest having them done. Do you think there is less of a chance of not having inherited illness with selective breeding?

Thanks again guys

ISDW

Nononolan wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys and no offence taken. My utmost concern is getting a happy healthy family pet and if the opportunity arose in the future possibly breed him but can understand why a responible breeder would place cavaets. The idea about stud came to me because I ve been searching high and low in the republic for a giant schnauzer and it's taken a yr and a half to source so it might be an opportunity to expand the population. My intention is not to get him as an investment and make sure the selective breeding is documented so I have piece of mind. Those health checks are probably a good idea irregardless of breeding so what age would you suggest having them done. Do you think there is less of a chance of not having inherited illness with selective breeding?

Thanks again guys

OK, your motives seem very sound If there is a shortage of giant schnauzers, then I can see why you might want to breed, they are gorgeous dogs.

Where is the breeder of your prospective pup based, here in Ireland or abroad? If they are a reputable breeder, then they will be able to give you lots of advice and help. And, if you and they want to expand the gene pool of the breed, then in the future, if your pup turns out to be a great example of the breed, then theres no reason why you can't work together to breed good quality pups.

I don't know what genetic health problems giant schnauzers can suffer from, if you google it, you will get the info. Things like hip dysplasia need to have the dog xrayed and the xray scored by the BVA in the UK, and this can't be done until the dog is at least one year old.

If your breeder is a good one, then they will probably become your mentor and will be an invaluable source of information and help for you, don't be afraid to ask them. I know that if I bred a litter, I would rather the new owners kept in touch with me and allowed me to help them, than have to struggle alone.

If its coming from the UK, then obviously the papers will be from the Kennel Club, not the IKC. The same vaccination papers should be given though. Good breeders will also give you a puppy pack, with info on diet and exercise etc.

andreac

I personally would not be buying a dog with a view to using it as a stud dog just because of the reasons you stated.
Firstly as you are a first time Giant Schauzer owner (well i think you are:)) you wouldnt be long enough in the breed really to start considering breeding for those reasons.

The reason there wouldnt be many in Ireland is because there obviously isnt a huge demand for them so not too many breeders around, so it will ensure anyone who is looking for one to really do their homework on the breeder and possibly source one in the UK.

If you really want to use him for stud in the future then i would urge you to get involved in showing, see how he gets on and if hes worthy of being a champion and is a good healthy dog then theres no reason why he cant be used in the future for stud.

If your dog is good enough you wont need to advertise him as people will come to you and enquire about him.
Regards with the health, you have more of a chance that your pup will be free from major problems and diseases if both the parents have been health checked and tested for these but theres no guarantee your pup will be healthy but chances are if both parents are ok then your pup should be too.
Best of luck with your pup:)

Nononolan

I ll keep in touch with the breeder who is living in Dublin and see how quickly the other pups go to new homes. I ve been following the breed a about 2 yrs and was over in Birmingham for Crufts with my uncle who breeds boxers and might have an interest in showing. Hip and eye problems can be common in the schnauzer but I ll look to see documents from the parents and get the pup checked after a year. Thanks for the replies although I ve had a few dogs in the past this is my first giant schnauzer and youve made some very good points. I ll throw up a few pics of the pup when I get him next week.

ISDW

Sorry OP, I realise I didn't explain that endorsements can be lifted by the breeder, so if there was an endorsement that progeny couldn't be registered, if you showed the breeder that you were responsible, and your dog had good health test results etc, they could remove the endorsements, allowing any subsequent pups to be IKC registered.